Not The Best Day.....In Need of Some Support

[crystal_lostheart]

Hello Again,

 

I've been reading alot of the threads and replying myself with advice, however cannot swallow my own.

 

MM told me I am not a good communicator and sometimes I treat him like he doesn't exist????!!!!! He said he likes attention and that I don't give him enough at times. I know this is not true. We were at a function together and he was in a bad mood with me (for whatever reason I don't know - his temper can be horrible. I thought I would give him some space as it makes me uncomfortable when he is like this. I was talking to another male friend of mine who I actually have known for years and MM knows him too. MM said to me 'you were laughing and talking with him and pretended like I didn't exist....did you behave like this in your M?' He also said 'Do you realise that my W would jump in front of a train right now to save our M?' All hell broke loose after this. I told him exactly what I thought of that comment. Told him that I felt I have already jumped in front of that train for him and for what???? To put my life on hold for this rubbish???!! He went very quiet and after that went back to being nice.

 

 

I feel like a fool. A total fool. He is so smart about all of this cake eating. He spends all of his time with me, takes me everywhere, tells me he loves me - but won't end his marriage because he is trying to 'build up the couarge to do it and is fighting his demons with this because of his child.' So what does he expect of me in the meantime? I feel like I take one step forward in trying to do NC, then 10 steps backwards sometimes. Just a really bad day........ and yes for those of you who are aware, I have still kept that appointment with the counsellor. Am seeing her this Friday.. just needed some support before then....

 

Thanks again - hope the sun is shining a little more for you than me today....

[jj33]

Not a good communicator? Talk about projection. Hes in a foul mood, you keep your distance and you arent the good communicator? Honey if I were you I would tell him fine maybe we should stop communicating while you work out your demons and when you have gathered up your courage, you give me a call and if I am still single maybe we will have something to talk about.

 

He could be fighting those demons for years. He has a W who will go to hell and back to keep the marriage together. It seems to me that unless you are happy in OW position, the fact that he is "being nice" again is not enough. Also the fact that you dont like his temper is not a red flag. If he does leave he will take his temper with him. Can you live with that? Do you want to live with that?

 

If you arent ready to end it, just taking a break can be a good thing. It would be good for you to have some time to reflect where you are after 9 months and if you like where this is or isnt going. Trust me you dont want to wake up another year later thinking I am still miserable over this man and I am not one iota closer to having the type of relationship I want in my life.

 

I dont know your whole story. And its so easy to give advice so hard to live with it once you have acted on it... even ending it didnt stop me from being emotionally entangled for the past year but taking a break would be a step in the right direction. Most times it not easy as we all know but it is likely to give you some clarity.

 

You want to make sure you are not just a band aid for his marriage. The fact that he is throwing his W at you while he is with you, is not a good sign. This is not a competition (who loves me more today). He needs to wake up and realize he has a wonderful woman who loves him and if he is not going to leave he needs to let you go and move on so you can be with someone who does appreciate you. And if he does, then he better start showing it and take some action.

 

I hope tomorrow is a better day.

[whichwayisup]

MM told me I am not a good communicator and sometimes I treat him like he doesn't exist????!!!!! He said he likes attention and that I don't give him enough at times

 

Can we say SELFISH? It's ALL about him. Like he's a good communicator? Hello! He's cheating on his wife! He sees you when HE feels like it, on HIS terms. Again, its' about HIM HIM HIM.

 

'Do you realise that my W would jump in front of a train right now to save our M?'

 

Right now you have a choice. Stay and let him continue to treat you like a second class citizen or DUMP HIS SELFISH ASS. This guy is an a-hole and doesn't respect you, let alone his wife.

 

Get mad, not sad.

[wildsoul]

The fact that he is throwing his W at you while he is with you, is not a good sign. This is not a competition (who loves me more today).

Competition. You beat me to the punch in saying it. He was trying to manipulate you by making you insecure. The thing about this is it's a ploy to get you looking at what's wrong about you. Don't take the bait. Who you should be looking at is him.

 

Sorry you had a bad day.

[crystal_lostheart]

Thanks again for the support.

 

I can't believe he said that. This is not a competition and yes it was a way to make me feel bad. But it didn't work this time and I let him know it.

Honestly, I am scared of being on my own. Leaving all the support I have at my work, all the friends I have made over the years. I don't know why it scares me but it does. And I have fallen so hard for him and he knows it. I am trying to break away. Trying to reason with myself that this is not a life I want.... What a mess..... An absolute mess.....

[whichwayisup]

Sorry that things are messy and you're feeling down. Maybe use this time to reconnect with your old friends and see your family. Take a trip or something...Putting all your focus on him and only him, well, you're losing yourself. Don't put him first ALL the time, he certainly isn't putting you first.

[crystal_lostheart]

Thanks WWIU...... Feeling so trapped today. Everywhere I turn there just isn't a place I can run to and make it better. Maybe tomorrow.....

[whichwayisup]

Get a good long distance plan and start calling your family and friends if you can't see them right now. You need to have people around you for support. This a-hole is sucking the life OUT of you and he doesn't care what it does to you because he's so wrapped up in himself and HIS NEEDS, not yours.

[beautifullove]

I hate that you are going through this. I think the fact that he mentioned his wife meant he was obviously thinking about her - hence the bad mood - while he was out with you. Who knows what's going on? I think he could be contemplating his decision to be with you or his wife. He's weighing up the pros and cons. Just my thoughts on reading your post objectively. Allow yourself to do the same.

[crystal_lostheart]

The truth hurts BL - but you are right.

He still tells me he doesn't want to be with his W and that he wants to be with me. The fact that he is mentioning his W - yes weighing up the pros and cons is not a good thing.

 

He said that he was upset at me because at the function I acted as if he didn't exist. A load of BS..... I give him too much attention if you ask me. I should be saying that comment to him..... But in the end, it's like nothing I do is ever good enough for him and I guess it never will be. But like I should have to prove myself to him anyway? His the one with the real problem right?

 

I look at myself in the mirror and I look horrible, a shadow of the woman I once used to be. A happy, vibrant person full of life now just a stressed, unhappy, underweight mess. It makes me feel sick typing this that I have let my life become like this....

 

I know I have to do the work to make it better but I am hoping to get more advice that I need from the counsellor this week. All the support here gives me hope and strength on a bad day like this.

 

I can't even do the simplest of things anymore. Everything is an effort. Everything is an act to stay sane. I cant even enjoy the little things life has to offer like I used to. Anything made me smile - made me laugh....now it doesn't.....and if it does, it's not a real smile.....

 

Have others felt this horrible feeling as the OW? How did you get past it?

[Angel1111]

This man sounds like a spoiled child and it's no surprise to me that his marriage is falling apart. Not because he wants attention because every guy likes that - but because he's so unreasonable and says such mean things to you.

 

How does he get away with being with you all the time? Doesn't his wife notice? Also, why do you want to be with a guy who has a foul temper and who says such hurtful things to you? This relationship has all the makings of a disaster. Why do you persist with something like this? And I hate to say it but being in love is not a good enough excuse. I agree that he does have problems but as I always say, you can't deny your accountability in this also. By being with him, you're agreeing to being with a married man. No matter what you say, no matter how much you argue with him about it, by being there you're accountable. Maybe not what you wanted to hear but that's the message you're sending him, along with the message that no matter how badly he treats you, you'll stick around.

 

And now his latest argument just put you in direct competition with another woman and that's something that would have me running for the hills. I say let HIM figure out who he wants to be with and then he can get in touch with you when it's all over with if you're the one. He plays the head games with you because he can. Stop letting him get away with it.

[crystal_lostheart]

I am accountable to this. I know that Angel. I guess not being in a situation like this ever in my life has made me handle everything the wrong way. Putting myself in this position in the first place has just made it spiral out of control and yes I am struggling to regain that control.

[crystal_lostheart]

How does he get away with being with you all the time? Doesn't his wife notice? Also, why do you want to be with a guy who has a foul temper and who says such hurtful things to you? quote]

 

He just doesn't spend anytime with his W. She suspected at first something was going on. Now, they will fight and then she will pretend at times that everything is ok and ignore their problems. That's what he tells me anyway.

I question everything I am doing. It's all the hope he gave me that we will be together. Now I just don't know what to believe. You know that viscious cycle of getting caught up with someone that makes you question yourself? It's happened and I know what i have to do, it's just doing it...

[Angel1111]

I know it's hard. I understand that. I guess I'm just trying to shake you up a little to look at this without this clouded view you have of him. As far as I can tell, even if he promised you the moon and delivered, he just sounds like a lousy person and someone who will make you miserable if you end up with him. That's what scares me.

[taylor]

I look at myself in the mirror and I look horrible, a shadow of the woman I once used to be. A happy, vibrant person full of life now just a stressed, unhappy, underweight mess. It makes me feel sick typing this that I have let my life become like this....

 

I can't even do the simplest of things anymore. Everything is an effort. Everything is an act to stay sane. I cant even enjoy the little things life has to offer like I used to. Anything made me smile - made me laugh....now it doesn't.....and if it does, it's not a real smile.....

 

Look at what this man is doing to you. He is sucking the life right out of you. This tells you this relationship is toxic. He is slowly poisoning you..day by day..week by week.

 

What advice would you give to a girfriend who told you she was in a relationship that was ruining her life like this?

[taylor]

I thought I would give him some space as it makes me uncomfortable when he is like this. I was talking to another male friend of mine who I actually have known for years and MM knows him too. MM said to me 'you were laughing and talking with him and pretended like I didn't exist....did you behave like this in your M?' He also said 'Do you realise that my W would jump in front of a train right now to save our M?' All hell broke loose after this. I told him exactly what I thought of that comment. Told him that I felt I have already jumped in front of that train for him and for what???? To put my life on hold for this rubbish???!! He went very quiet and after that went back to being nice.

 

I agree with BL. This man sounds like he is still weighing options.

 

That was a very cruel and hurtful thing to say to you.

 

I don't think this man is worth jumping in front of any train for, regardless of whether you are the wife or the OW.

 

If I were you, I wouldn't give him the option to weigh options. I'd hop on the train and get as far away from him as possible.

[astra77]

((CL)) i am so sorry you had a bad day today.

 

CL, please read and re read everyones replys to your post. And TRY to think about what they are all saying.

 

Right now I know that your head is all over the place and that you cant function - i have been there, and i am only now slowly getting into a new routine.

 

Huny, what do you really see when you look in the mirror ? He is sucking the life out of you - happened to me, still in recovery - but dont just look at your refelction, you have to look inside you aswell, because inside of you is a wonderful, kind spirited, loving, sassy woman, trapped by the selfishness of a man who is married, but not to you.

 

Im sorry if that hurts CL, I just want to give you a gentle shake too, beacuase i KNOW that if you look inside your heart, deep deep down inside your heart, YOU KNOW you are worth FAR more than what MM is currently giving you.

 

If you need to PM me and let me know how you are, you are in my thoughts and my prayers CL

[Cheesecake]

Hi CL - I know exactly how you feel. Because I've been there - SEVERAL times. It just plain sucks. I've finally moved passed it and this is how - complete and total NC!!! Write him a final good bye letter telling him you love him and want to be with him, but the only way you will is when he's ready and available. It is the only way to regain control and feel better about yourself. It has been almost two months since I've seen my MM. It's been 2 weeks since I've had any correspondence with him. And believe me, he has tried his damndest to do both. Is it hard? Yes. Do I miss him terribly? Yes. Am I sad sometimes? Yes, but in retrospect the sadness is NOTHING compared to the pain I felt everyday being in the situation, giving him all control, losing myself in the process. And he is not a bad man. He's just in a ****ty situation - but he chooses to remain there when clearly he has the choice to change. You have to understand, and this has been a recurring message on this board too, that the longer you stay in this situation, the more you are enabling him to stay in his bad marriage and not face his real problems - and the longer you will remain an OW. If you remove yourself, you win either way. If you were meant to be together, he will miss the dickens out of you, face his issues at home and act appropriately. And how good will you feel if he comes back to you a free available man who has proven that he truly wants to be with you in a real sense? If he stays in his bad marriage, then time will pass, and little by little you'll get over it and move on. Great love involves great risk. But it can't be one sided, you know? Hang in there.

[crystal_lostheart]

I know it's hard. I understand that. I guess I'm just trying to shake you up a little to look at this without this clouded view you have of him. As far as I can tell, even if he promised you the moon and delivered, he just sounds like a lousy person and someone who will make you miserable if you end up with him. That's what scares me.

 

I have even scared myself with this Angel..... how bad things have gotten and what's worse I have allowed it......Him and I are not on the same page and that hurts because he is so good at making me believe that we are on the same path. But I realise that we are not and will never be. Being alone scares me Angel, I am really scared of that. I have stupidly put so much into this and for what? To only get hurt...

[crystal_lostheart]

Hi CL - I know exactly how you feel. Because I've been there - SEVERAL times. It just plain sucks. I've finally moved passed it and this is how - complete and total NC!!! Write him a final good bye letter telling him you love him and want to be with him, but the only way you will is when he's ready and available. It is the only way to regain control and feel better about yourself. It has been almost two months since I've seen my MM. It's been 2 weeks since I've had any correspondence with him. And believe me, he has tried his damndest to do both. Is it hard? Yes. Do I miss him terribly? Yes. Am I sad sometimes? Yes, but in retrospect the sadness is NOTHING compared to the pain I felt everyday being in the situation, giving him all control, losing myself in the process. And he is not a bad man. He's just in a ****ty situation - but he chooses to remain there when clearly he has the choice to change. You have to understand, and this has been a recurring message on this board too, that the longer you stay in this situation, the more you are enabling him to stay in his bad marriage and not face his real problems - and the longer you will remain an OW. If you remove yourself, you win either way. If you were meant to be together, he will miss the dickens out of you, face his issues at home and act appropriately. And how good will you feel if he comes back to you a free available man who has proven that he truly wants to be with you in a real sense? If he stays in his bad marriage, then time will pass, and little by little you'll get over it and move on. Great love involves great risk. But it can't be one sided, you know? Hang in there.

 

Thankyou CC.... My MM can be hurtful at times, and I thought that most MM acted this way.... til I started reading this forum....

[crystal_lostheart]

What advice would you give to a girfriend who told you she was in a relationship that was ruining her life like this?

 

I would tell her to leave....I tell myself to leave everyday....I just need to do it

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Hi Crystal,

 

I wanted to reply. It seems as though recently there is an influx of OW writing about thier issues with MM who are clearly narcissist. I'm not talking about just a little selfish. I'm talking about malignant narcissism. They come on so strong and attentive. Its all about you. Then how you make them feel. Then the controlling begins. Next the punishment. Then they start to say things that are so unbelievable that you just can't wrap your head around it. They've gained your trust but turned the tables, so something must be wrong with you, right???

 

His wife would throw herself in front of a train to save their marraige. See, he needs that. Its called narcissistic supply. You also serve as a source of narcissistic supply. Here is a Q&A link about NS. About half way down it talks about why the N will devalue is source of NS. I believe you will see your situation in this.

 

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq76.html

 

You will see how the WORST thing you can do to a N is to ignore him. Any attention good or bad is "good" attention for a N. Can you see from that how he projects his self hatred onto his NS. Do you also see how he doesn't love his wife but needs her to project the family image? He doesn't love anyone anymore than you love your lawnmower. People are tools for his very distorted reality. Also take notice of what the N considers emotion.

 

Check this link on giving a N a second chance.

 

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal78.html

 

Here is another good Q&A link.

http://samvak.tripod.com/archive55.html

 

Hopefully you can see that you have fallen in love with and "image" the man behind the image doesn't exist, he is a mirrage and a very sick individual. You have been his victim, not the first nor the last. This has never had anything to do with YOU. Its all been about him. The feelings that you are having about being beaten down are symptoms of abuse.

 

http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily22.html

 

Thank your lucky stars this man didn't leave his wife for you. (And say a prayer for her while your at it... if you are induring this type of stress, you can't imagine what her life is like, I know first hand.)

 

No one can change a Narcissist. NO ONE. Your relationship with him will only get worse. Be glad you were smart enough to realize something was wrong. Try not to spend to much time mourning a mirrage. You are fine, there is nothing wrong with YOU, these guys are MASTER manipulators, they have to be. Narcissistic supply to them is as important as air is to the rest of us.

 

My guess is in the future that you will be able to spot a man like this a mile away. Take care of yourself. IWWH

[Cheesecake]

Very interesting about the narcissist theory, IWWH. And there most certainly may be some truth to it. I know you're trying to help. However, I'm not a big believer in categorizing people - especially those that I don't know. I think telling Crystal or any of these OP's that they are victims really does not do them much good. At all. In fact, I'll tell you right now - it makes a person feel twice as bad, especially if you're questioning the love they had with their respective MM/MW. Nothing is ever just black and white. There's many shades of grey. We are not victims - not unless we allow ourselves to be. We are intelligent people with choices. We're also human and will make several mistakes in our lifetimes, hopefully learning from each of them. I just don't think focusing on a negative (ie MM is a selffish, narcissist, I have been his victim, blah, blah, blah) is conducive to healing and making life better for the most important person in this equation - YOURSELF. You'll just add anger to the mix. It is so important to love yourself - if you don't, who else will? Ok - I'll get off my soapbox now. LOL. All I'm saying is, whether this guy is a narcissist, co-dependent, confused, whatever - let him be whatever it is he is. You have to try to get the focus off of him and back on you. And once you find yourself again, you'll have an even clearer picture of what and who it is you want.

[mytruelove]

i definitely sympathize with you.

 

first, as someone leaving a marriage and loving the guy i talk about here-let me tell you- out of respect for him and our relationship, i NEVER bring up X and he doesn't really either. in fact, i protect him from that. the fact that your MM does, tells me that he is NOT emotionally free and available from the marriage. i would be really really concerned about this. if he was over it, or moved on, or really respected you and wanted a relationship with you...he would never throw her in your face. it doesn't sound to me like he has done the work to detach from the marriage and self-work that he needs to be able to have a relationship with you. in other words, he has a long way to go! echo here, it is NOT a competition...you are NOT her...never have been and never will be. PERIOD!

 

when my guy gets stressed-he has a temper too, so i understand. how do i handle it? i simply walk away and give him the space he needs. i do this for me and him. i do it for me because when he acts like that, it doesn't feel good to me and i don't need to be in the line of fire. him and i have discussed this and we have an understanding about it.

 

i really hope your having a better day hon.

[wildsoul]

crystal_lostheart: Please forgive my thread hi-jack.

 

IWWH: Thank you for the links. I was reading another site on narcissim and saw many of his traits there, and also in the one you posted. Diagnosis aside, what I think is helpful is just looking for the patterns. A few things that apply to and explain my xMM's behaviors:

• He loved talking non-stop about what a great couple we were. It really validated him and he liked to wax poetic about how our love was better, our sex was better, everything was better with us. On the one hand, it really felt great (and I shared some of those sentiments) but sometimes it was like "Shut up already, let's just have a relationship and not talk about it all the time."
  
• He worked hard to get my adoration (although it's easy to get from me.) But I also thought it was quirky how sometimes when he wasn't feeling confident, he would actually tell me what he wanted to hear. It was funny because it didn't seem to matter whether it was genuinely inspired or not. I interpretted this as a sign that at least he knew what he needed and could communicate directly.
  
• He has an obession with consipiracy theories in business and sports. (It's not my thing at all.) But he spends inordinate amounts of time on the internet as a much-hated forum troll in a couple of arenas. He doesn't care that most people hate him, he feels that he is the great enlightener for his bastions of silent fans. It's kooky to me. I dismissed it as a guy pissing contest thing. But it does fit the cyber narcissist profile very well.
  

So while I don't need to diagnose him, I do see shades of him (and another ex who I had a hard time detaching from a long time ago.) The thing that is hard, is that these types work like hell to charm the panties off you. It feels good to be on their pedestal.

 

PS: I'm bookmarking the article about reuniting with a narcissist with special interest.

 

Cheesecake: Your earlier post on NC was very inspiring to me this morning. Thank you!

 

And I agree about not pathologizing the X or R too much. It just gets too overwhelming. In my situation, I'm not an abused woman and I don't want to carry that label around. I made some bad choices that led to heartbreak. But there were also places where I did have some boundaries. And I also got to experience some very happy and loving times with him over the last 7 months.

 

I don't expect a lot of sympathy from the people with whom I shared the negative aspects of my xMM. I created that dynamic because I've been totally honest with my support teams. But what no one understands (in part because I haven't told them) is just how much love and happiness I had with him. It's easy for people to say "dump him" when the hear about the negative things he did post-breakup. But they don't understand that I had over 6 months of incredible happiness, excitement, and great sex. It's a lot to let go of.

 

I think it's better for me to focus on filling up the gigantic void in my life with postive things, than it is to tough-love myself into hating my xMM and avoiding him out of fear. I am not declaring that my NC is permanent. I am not saying I will definitely be with or without him in the future. Right now, all that matters is I let go and shore up my life. Cheesecake, you said it very simply earlier, "If you remove yourself, you win either way."

 

That's my plan. I'll decide about the future when/if it comes. If I keep working on myself, I'll be different when that day comes. He might be or seem different too. Could be better, could be worse. All I know for sure is that since his separation process halted, I can't be with him. Meanwhile, I need to fill up the enormous hole left in my life. And I think filling it up with positive things will work better/faster in the long run than.