New OW Enlightenment! (long, sorry!)

[Accidental_OW]

Hiya,

 

Here's a quick Bio:

 

I met my MM unexpectedly and was under the impression that he was "divorcing"- as in the very real process of divorce. Needless, I fell hard and fast for this guy- and it wasn't until I was well into it emotionally that I realized he wasn't actually "divorcing" at all.

 

The reality was that he was living in the Guest House, had hired lawyers and signed separation papers over a 1 1/2 ago but were VERY married in the sense that NO ONE actually knows anything other than they are together. There are 2 small children involved, 8 &4.

 

At first I was very empathetic- about the children and even his bloody wife. All with promoises that when it did get sorted we would be together. (we spend almost every evening/night together) But truthfully- the whole situation just started to make me feel like crap- I know I wasn't the reason for the divorce but I still feel guilty about it. I told him all this- and of course he said all the right things.

 

It's been 2 1/2 months and nothing has progressed beyond what it was in the beginning...I want to say this- I am a very strong gal who has never tolerated a moment of "fence sitting" yet here I was sitting on someone else's bloody fence...waiting!!! I am very undemanding person- my motto is "I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me!" I've told him over and over again- if you want to stay in your marriage for the kids- fine, just tell me now...please!

 

Then something Amazing happened last weekend...

 

I had a day to myself (because he was busy with his kids) and I didn't give one thought to him and his...I had a beautiful day that reminded me that my life is good to the point of being envied by others- he needs me more than I need him. I hadn't realized how much "loving him" had tarnished my very happy life...doubt, disappointment, fear- SO not worth it!

 

He had a family vacation planned this week- said he wouldn't go but I insisted that he go for his kids. Upon leaving, I didn't want to see him- I just didn't want to deal with his BS about it- it is what it is...When we were saying our good byes on the phone he asked why I sounded odd- and I (with amusement more than anything else) replied "perhaps because you are going on holiday with your wife!!!" He said fair enough. Then I just said it- "I am not okay with any of this- and I am having a hard time getting my head around it all...I don't think you realize how bloody difficult this is for me- and that it is tearing me up!" What came out of his mouth next pushed me over the edge of politeness...

 

He said "You don't think it's the same for me? That I don't feel the same...wanting more..." I almost laughed as I said "HELL NO. It is not even close- and I am appalled that you would even compare the two...this is YOUR Life Mess- not mine!"

 

After several more verbal volleys- I said this "I love you and will do the only thing I can do right now to help you...as it is not in my power to walk away from it all... I take myself out of the equation for 2 months...You figure out what you want and in 2 months if you haven't left your wife, then don't contact me!" Of course he protested but I made him promise- no contact for 2 months- he owes me that!

 

So, it's been 4 days- he gets back on Sunday...and I am praying that he keeps his word as I do not know how long I can hold on my convictions!

 

Reading these threads have really helped...many thanks to you all and I wish you the best!

[Lizzie60]

Of course he protested but I made him promise- no contact for 2 months- he owes me that!

 

 

You can't stop now... if you give in.. he will walk all over you... you gotta be stronger... and yes HE OWES you that!...

 

Good luck.. be strong.

[Kamikaze]

Hiya,

 

Here's a quick Bio:

 

I met my MM unexpectedly and was under the impression that he was "divorcing"- as in the very real process of divorce. Needless, I fell hard and fast for this guy- and it wasn't until I was well into it emotionally that I realized he wasn't actually "divorcing" at all.

 

The reality was that he was living in the Guest House, had hired lawyers and signed separation papers over a 1 1/2 ago but were VERY married in the sense that NO ONE actually knows anything other than they are together. There are 2 small children involved, 8 &4.

 

At first I was very empathetic- about the children and even his bloody wife. All with promoises that when it did get sorted we would be together. (we spend almost every evening/night together) But truthfully- the whole situation just started to make me feel like crap- I know I wasn't the reason for the divorce but I still feel guilty about it. I told him all this- and of course he said all the right things.

 

It's been 2 1/2 months and nothing has progressed beyond what it was in the beginning...I want to say this- I am a very strong gal who has never tolerated a moment of "fence sitting" yet here I was sitting on someone else's bloody fence...waiting!!! I am very undemanding person- my motto is "I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me!" I've told him over and over again- if you want to stay in your marriage for the kids- fine, just tell me now...please!

 

Then something Amazing happened last weekend...

 

I had a day to myself (because he was busy with his kids) and I didn't give one thought to him and his...I had a beautiful day that reminded me that my life is good to the point of being envied by others- he needs me more than I need him. I hadn't realized how much "loving him" had tarnished my very happy life...doubt, disappointment, fear- SO not worth it!

 

He had a family vacation planned this week- said he wouldn't go but I insisted that he go for his kids. Upon leaving, I didn't want to see him- I just didn't want to deal with his BS about it- it is what it is...When we were saying our good byes on the phone he asked why I sounded odd- and I (with amusement more than anything else) replied "perhaps because you are going on holiday with your wife!!!" He said fair enough. Then I just said it- "I am not okay with any of this- and I am having a hard time getting my head around it all...I don't think you realize how bloody difficult this is for me- and that it is tearing me up!" What came out of his mouth next pushed me over the edge of politeness...

 

He said "You don't think it's the same for me? That I don't feel the same...wanting more..." I almost laughed as I said "HELL NO. It is not even close- and I am appalled that you would even compare the two...this is YOUR Life Mess- not mine!"

 

After several more verbal volleys- I said this "I love you and will do the only thing I can do right now to help you...as it is not in my power to walk away from it all... I take myself out of the equation for 2 months...You figure out what you want and in 2 months if you haven't left your wife, then don't contact me!" Of course he protested but I made him promise- no contact for 2 months- he owes me that!

 

So, it's been 4 days- he gets back on Sunday...and I am praying that he keeps his word as I do not know how long I can hold on my convictions!

 

Reading these threads have really helped...many thanks to you all and I wish you the best!

 

Having just been where you are now I will say - don't hold your breath. The best thing you can do right now is to live your life to the fullest. If he wants you he will do what you have asked. You need to let him "see" that you are not going to wait around and that the risk he takes while staying with her is losing you.

 

I made the mistake of trying to give unconditional love to someone who had already put conditions on our relationship! I think it was OW who said on one of these threads - the relationship has to be on "your" terms.

 

I made this mistake. My Xmm kept telling me that his W was so controlling and manipulating that he just could not handle me being that way - actually what he was doing was controlling and manipulating me.

 

Take control now - which is what you have done by giving him the ultimatum. Don't back down!

[NoIDidn't]

Then something Amazing happened last weekend...

 

I had a day to myself (because he was busy with his kids) and I didn't give one thought to him and his...I had a beautiful day that reminded me that my life is good to the point of being envied by others- he needs me more than I need him. I hadn't realized how much "loving him" had tarnished my very happy life...doubt, disappointment, fear- SO not worth it!

 

Just.....awesome!

[Accidental_OW]

It's quite simple really... "I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me!" And if he stays in his marriage then he doesn't want to be with me... I don't feel as if I am giving him an ultimatum- just accepting/asking for what he's already offered...He said wants out and that he started the divorce process well before he met me- so get with it!

[CHANTRESS]

AOW..I hope I can jump on your bandwagon. I am in a similar place as well.

I basically told him to bugger off last night. I have had quite enough of the

promsies and sob stories of how he really doesn't want to be there.

He is going on holiday as well with his W and children for 10 days this week. I

am just beside myself with disgust. I refuse to play 2nd best anymore while

' he plays happy family man.

 

I hope you let us know how things play out.I will be rooting for you as well!!

[White Flower]

 

- my motto is "I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me!" I've told him over and over again- if you want to stay in your marriage for the kids- fine, just tell me now...please!

 

I hadn't realized how much "loving him" had tarnished my very happy life...doubt, disappointment, fear- SO not worth it!

 

 

He said "You don't think it's the same for me? That I don't feel the same...wanting more..." I almost laughed as I said "HELL NO. It is not even close- and I am appalled that you would even compare the two...this is YOUR Life Mess- not mine!"

 

 

Reading these threads have really helped...many thanks to you all and I wish you the best!

Is it possible he's living in the guest house because he is in the dog house for cheating before? You must consider this. He may be a serial cheater.

 

I have also heard the words, 'I am just as hurt all the time as you are. Going on these trips with her are grueling and if I could go with you I would be experiencing so much more joy.' Yeah, he said all the right things.

 

My motto is exactly like yours. He always reassured me that I would be the first to know when his heart wasn't in it. Again, always the right words.

 

They can be smooth talkers. Do you really want to live with one?

 

Contact the wife and find out if he's cheated before.

 

Good luck.

[Ariadne]

figure out what you want and in 2 months if you haven't left your wife, then don't contact me!" ... it's been 4 days- he gets back on Sunday...I do not know how long I can hold on my convictions!

 

Gosh,

 

Why did you shoot yourself in the foot for that?

 

Just because you were angry about the vacation and feeling brave (since he was leaving and all).

 

Well, you are going to have to bite your words most likely, or just eat sht for two months.

 

Good luck.

[Dark-N-Romantic]

1) The guy is MARRIED. Separation does not = single. Separation does not = divorce... So why would anyone with any self respect put themselves in that situation?

 

2) Why are you even giving him a second chance once you found out he IS NOT really getting a divorce from his wife? Who probably herself does not know he is still trying to carry on with you... Again I ask, where is the self respect?

 

3) Why are women so hard up on a such men anyway (which I am kind of happy to be a man, or maybe I have more sense of self than to let myself be used and lied to that way)?

 

4) Someone please tell me, if they think it is reprehensible for their boyfriend/girlfriend or spouse to cheat on them... Why the Hell are they doing it themselves?

 

I've said it once and I'll say it a thousand times. Lovers of married people have to stop justifying their immoral, disgusting behavior as love. IT IS NOT LOVE! It is adultery. It is ugly. It is nasty. It is selfish. It is degrading. It is a lack of morals. THERE IS NOTHING POSITIVE ABOUT BEING A PARTY TO AN AFFAIR!

 

How about this for a challenge to see if the guy really loves you... Show up to his house with flowers and tell his wife hello and that you are his mistress. Let her know that he is on a 2 month no contact agreement with you and that he is suppose to be leaving her... As a matter of fact, let him know you are going to do it BEFORE you do it. Lets see what love really does then...

 

 

DNR

[OWoman]

Lovers of married people have to stop justifying their immoral, disgusting behavior as love. IT IS NOT LOVE! It is adultery.

 

Category error. "Adultery" is a socio-legal construct. Love is an emotion. One may well be present in, or lead to, the other, and they are certainly not mutually exclusive. That would be like claiming hatred could not co-exist with murder, or jealousy with theft.

 

It is ugly. It is nasty. It is selfish. It is degrading. It is a lack of morals. THERE IS NOTHING POSITIVE ABOUT BEING A PARTY TO AN AFFAIR!

 

In your opinion, that is. Luckily we don't all share that. My opinion, formed on the basis of my experience (and I dare say I've had a great many more As than you, so my experience - and opinion - is thus better grounded) is quite the contrary. As have brought me beauty, joy, caring, sharing, transcendance, happiness, fulfillment, satisfaction, and yes, Love!

 

The tone of your posts reveals hurt, bitterness and a lack of fulfillment, DNR - perhaps you ought to try an A and perhaps you too will experience the wonderful things they have to offer. It will make you less of a hater, I'm willing to bet, at the very least.

[Dark-N-Romantic]

Category error. "Adultery" is a socio-legal construct. Love is an emotion. One may well be present in, or lead to, the other, and they are certainly not mutually exclusive. That would be like claiming hatred could not co-exist with murder, or jealousy with theft.

 

 

 

In your opinion, that is. Luckily we don't all share that. My opinion, formed on the basis of my experience (and I dare say I've had a great many more As than you, so my experience - and opinion - is thus better grounded) is quite the contrary. As have brought me beauty, joy, caring, sharing, transcendance, happiness, fulfillment, satisfaction, and yes, Love!

 

The tone of your posts reveals hurt, bitterness and a lack of fulfillment, DNR - perhaps you ought to try an A and perhaps you too will experience the wonderful things they have to offer. It will make you less of a hater, I'm willing to bet, at the very least.

 

No. Self respect for not going on my selfish desires. I had "ONE!" and I ended the moment she told me she was not divorced but was married. And I have had several opportunities to be the other man, but I have a little bit more respect for myself and others than to engage in such immoral habits... I have enough sins and I sure as don't want to add on to them.

 

I don't expect anyone to change their morality. But, I sure as won't sugar coat it. Treat it like it should be natural. Especially when I don't want it to happen to me or any children if they are involved. Again, love does not make people do what is morally wrong and hurtful to others. And apparently adultery DOES mean something or a lot of men and women here would not be saying things like "once a cheater always a cheater" or "they would not give a cheater a second chance".

 

And of course it has brought you beauty and joy and all these other things you talk about. But, then again who truly who does what is morally wrong want to acknowledge they are doing something wrong? Who goes out there and willing hurt others are going to say that I did a bad thing and that I was bad for doing it (very few people).

 

And my post is more about the disgust and filth that people willingly throw themselves in to. The children who lives are destroyed. The feelings of others who are hurt by others lack of decency. Children are going to learn that my mommy and daddy did it so it must be okay. And lets not get into the other issues kids have to deal with because of such disregard. And then there are the ones who have to pick up their lives after such a betrayal. How many of them kill themselves or others because of the selfish, UNLOVING actions of those who get involved in affair. How many people who totally give up on love because someone's false lies about love lead them to hurt someone else. And I guess all these men and women who survive being the partner of an adulterer or adulteress have are lying to themselves about how wrong they were? And the hatred such activities breed that leads to murder? No these things can possibly happen from people who engage in adultery. Men don't get shot in their cars or women executed by their partner's lovers.

 

But off course, why should I expect understanding and shame from people who have none, or who maybe realize too well and just don't want to face the facts they put themselves in their own predicament? So, trust me, my post is not out of jealousy or wanting to be more like someone else, but to hopefully get through to those who still have a moral fiber and code of ethics.

 

 

DNR

[OpenBook]

And my post is more about the disgust and filth that people willingly throw themselves in to. The children who lives are destroyed. The feelings of others who are hurt by others lack of decency. Children are going to learn that my mommy and daddy did it so it must be okay. And lets not get into the other issues kids have to deal with because of such disregard.

 

Infinitely worse is the suffering of these children as they witness their own flesh-and-blood mother mistreating and abusing their own flesh-and-blood father (or vice versa, or both)... and then the abuse turns on them. Jesus wasn't kidding when He said "Suffer the little children to come to me..."

 

Some homes are broken from the inside out long before the parents split up. In such cases, the splitting-up is both a blessing and a relief.

[Lookingforward]

and here we go again with the "separated is still married' stuff.............

[OWoman]

and here we go again with the "separated is still married' stuff.............

 

Guess someone should have told that to Katherine Hepburn and Spencer Tracy, then. Oh, and that their's wasn't love, despite all the evidence, that it was adultery. And nasty. And evil. Immoral and disgusting. Wicked wicked wicked. And degrading, don't forget degrading. :lmao: :lmao:

[Lookingforward]

Guess someone should have told that to Katherine Hepburn and Spencer Tracy, then. Oh, and that their's wasn't love, despite all the evidence, that it was adultery. And nasty. And evil. Immoral and disgusting. Wicked wicked wicked. And degrading, don't forget degrading. :lmao: :lmao:

 

Well as I understand it legally, separation is usually the first step to D.... separated doesn't equal "married" it's a phase between "married" and "divorced"

[silktricks]

Well as I understand it legally, separation is usually the first step to D.... separated doesn't equal "married" it's a phase between "married" and "divorced"

 

Usually. Sometimes people are "separated but still together" - still living in the same house, still having sex regularly, etc. More like taking a breather from the structural confines of marriage to be able to focus on an aspect of themselves that needs work.

 

But IMO a real honest separation means both people get to take the opportunity to determine if that marriage is right for each of them. Quite often that determination will include seeing other people. BUT the people they see should be told the complete truth, not just a little bitty bit of it. JMO

[OWoman]

Well as I understand it legally, separation is usually the first step to D.... separated doesn't equal "married" it's a phase between "married" and "divorced"

 

That's faaaar too logical - like saying grey is a phase between black and white; or damp is a phase between wet and dry; or adolescence is a phase between childhood and adulthood. You can't use logic on the bitter brigade. They only understand fire and brimstone.

[Lookingforward]

Usually. Sometimes people are "separated but still together" - still living in the same house, still having sex regularly, etc. More like taking a breather from the structural confines of marriage to be able to focus on an aspect of themselves that needs work.

 

But IMO a real honest separation means both people get to take the opportunity to determine if that marriage is right for each of them. Quite often that determination will include seeing other people. BUT the people they see should be told the complete truth, not just a little bitty bit of it. JMO

 

fwiw I don't consider you've truly "separated" unless you're living apart, but that's just me I guess. When someone separates and moves out, yes I consider they are "separate".

[Lookingforward]

That's faaaar too logical - like saying grey is a phase between black and white; or damp is a phase between wet and dry; or adolescence is a phase between childhood and adulthood. You can't use logic on the bitter brigade. They only understand fire and brimstone.

 

as you well know OW, there are some on here that also hold the view you can't even trust the guy isn't M if he's D LOL

[OWoman]

Usually. Sometimes people are "separated but still together" - still living in the same house, still having sex regularly, etc. More like taking a breather from the structural confines of marriage to be able to focus on an aspect of themselves that needs work.

 

The "still having sex" bit about that bothers me - I wouldn't consider that separated. I can understand force of circumstance keeping people under the same roof - in separate bedrooms, or sleeping on the floor in the lounge, say; having been there myself when I struggled to find a place to move to when I separated from my H - but if they're having sex, and regularly at that? To my mind that signals some ongoing commitment to the M - or at least there should be an awareness that it could signal that to the other party and raise those expectations, and if one were truly separated, those would not be expectations one would want raised.

[OWoman]

as you well know OW, there are some on here that also hold the view you can't even trust the guy isn't M if he's D LOL

 

Yep I guess we should hang out at funeral parlours and just date widowers... (Unless of course their Ws are soap opera actresses with a penchant for returning from the dead )

[Lookingforward]

The "still having sex" bit about that bothers me - I wouldn't consider that separated. I can understand force of circumstance keeping people under the same roof - in separate bedrooms, or sleeping on the floor in the lounge, say; having been there myself when I struggled to find a place to move to when I separated from my H - but if they're having sex, and regularly at that? To my mind that signals some ongoing commitment to the M - or at least there should be an awareness that it could signal that to the other party and raise those expectations, and if one were truly separated, those would not be expectations one would want raised.

 

If any guy told me he was "separated" but still living in the same place and having sex with the W - I'd laugh in his face, frankly

[Lookingforward]

Yep I guess we should hang out at funeral parlours and just date widowers... (Unless of course their Ws are soap opera actresses with a penchant for returning from the dead )

 

Considering that MM are off limits, Separated MM are off limits, hell even D men are off limits as "they MAY go back" - and wtf wants someone over 55 who's a SG and never been M ?

[OWoman]

Considering that MM are off limits, Separated MM are off limits, hell even D men are off limits as "they MAY go back" - and wtf wants someone over 55 who's a SG and never been M ?

 

His boyfriend?

[Lookingforward]

His boyfriend?

 

ROFL - maybe :lmao: