Could cheating be an evolutionary thing?

[Tony T]

I read this article on the Internet about the behavior of our closest animal relatives in the evolutionary chain and got to thinking. Maybe, in some very complex way, there is a reason for cheating that is actually built into our genes...into the way we are. Yes, of course we all have free will and can make our own decisions but there are many things about human behavior that just seem uncontrollable at times. The article ----> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25218592/

[OWoman]

I read this article on the Internet about the behavior of our closest animal relatives in the evolutionary chain and got to thinking. Maybe, in some very complex way, there is a reason for cheating that is actually built into our genes...into the way we are. Yes, of course we all have free will and can make our own decisions but there are many things about human behavior that just seem uncontrollable at times. The article ----> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25218592/

 

Of course it's an evolutionary thing, and of course it's genetically programmed into both males and females to cheat. I've not visited the site you link - it's Microsoft - but I've read plenty of real scientific articles on the matter. The trick, genetically, is for the male to spread his genetic material as widely as possible by impregnating as many females as possible, and for the female to fool the strongest / most protective male into thinking she's been faithful to him or that he's sired her spawn so that he protects them until viable, while at the same time seeking out those males to fertilise her / sire her spawn who demonstrate the best genetic traits for survival under the conditions. Which is sometimes, but often not, the male she pairs with openly as "the father" to raise the brood. And since genetic diversity rather than sameness is favoured for survival, it's more beneficial to mate with different males rather than just the same boring one. (Which goes for males and females, though the famous "Coolidge Effect" has been demonstrated more visibly for males.)

[Nemo]

Some of us have outgrown our genes. The rest are unfortunately too weak-willed and morally vacuous to raise their genitals out of the gutter. Well, I shouldn't suppose unfortunately. I'm sure they're having a great time thinking only of themselves, and that's perhaps what makes their lives so juicy and succulent.

[Lovelybird]

Of course it's an evolutionary thing, and of course it's genetically programmed into both males and females to cheat. I've not visited the site you link - it's Microsoft - but I've read plenty of real scientific articles on the matter. The trick, genetically, is for the male to spread his genetic material as widely as possible by impregnating as many females as possible, and for the female to fool the strongest / most protective male into thinking she's been faithful to him or that he's sired her spawn so that he protects them until viable, while at the same time seeking out those males to fertilise her / sire her spawn who demonstrate the best genetic traits for survival under the conditions. Which is sometimes, but often not, the male she pairs with openly as "the father" to raise the brood. And since genetic diversity rather than sameness is favoured for survival, it's more beneficial to mate with different males rather than just the same boring one. (Which goes for males and females, though the famous "Coolidge Effect" has been demonstrated more visibly for males.)

sounds like animal

[OWoman]

sounds like animal

 

We're all animals. Humans are. Well, those that are not minerals or vegetables, at any rate...

[OpenBook]

I think the tendency to cheat has always been with us. I definitely don't believe it's any worse now than it has always been. It used to be more tolerated for males in earlier societies (and much LESS tolerated for females!!). Now it's frowned on for everybody, but nobody's going to get burned at the stake for cheating. But women are cheating more now, I think -- along with their newly-won freedom and power in society, they're catching up.

 

I would hate to think it's the result of evolution... otherwise, the right to cheat would be demanded by all!

 

We're the only species that applies morality to it. We're also the only species that has evolved into thinking, reasoning beings who are able to alter our environments to our liking.

 

(Sigh.) I don't know. I'm not drawing any conclusions here.

[marlena]

Yes, promiscuity is encoded in our genes but society seeks to destroy what is natural and impose its own constructed system of moral values. Which way one chooses to go depends on the extent to which one has resisted or accepted societal pressure to abide by what is wrong or right. That being said, I strongly believe that everyone has the potential to cheat, even the most rigidly inculcated.

[bentnotbroken]

Cheating has always been in the world. The bible documents it from the beginning. As was stated, we are animals. We will always want to take the easy route and go with our base nature. It is our flesh always trying to control our decisions and our paths. It is up to to decide if we truly are higher on the intellect chain.

[grogster]

Not much new in the article with one exception: low ranking female chimps keep quiet while having sex with the alpha male chimps so as not to invite aggression from other females:

 

"Low-ranking females were also more likely to keep quiet during sex, probably to keep female competitors at bay, the researchers said."We think that by being quiet, you are less likely to incite aggression from other females... ."

 

Kind of like aggressive Other Women trumpeting their affairs on infidelity threads...

[GreenEyedLady]

Maybe, in some very complex way, there is a reason for cheating that is actually built into our genes...into the way we are. Yes, of course we all have free will and can make our own decisions but there are many things about human behavior that just seem uncontrollable at times.

 

I don't know if I really buy "My genes made me do it!"

 

But that follows the theory about spreading the seed far and wide.

 

And you're right about human behavior being seemingly uncontrollable. Under some conditions, people risk so much.

[Lookingforward]

We are all animals and exhibit animalistic behaviours

 

Society and it's mores (religious and otherwise) are a totally artificial construct designed to ensure we can all live together in relative harmony.

 

It doesn't always work of course, but at least we try.

[amerikajin]

I think that our genes are in conflict. On the one hand, there is a strong natural desire to want to have sex with anybody we find attractive; on the other hand, the jealousy that people feel is also genetically encoded, as it is nature's way of equipping individuals to defend themselves against competitors who compete for the same resources (sexual companionship in this case).

 

Personally, I think we idealize romance, monogamy and relationships way too much. Lifelong monogamy is an ideal, but it's not an honest reflection of human nature. So when people fulfill or seek to fulfill these urges, they are scorned as though they are scum of the earth, even though they might otherwise be decent, likable people. Yes, I know there are a lot of happy couples who've been married for 50 years, and that's all sweet and everything. But that's not the majority of people and everyone here knows that. Now that men and women have the freedom to get divorced without stigma, they do so quite frequently.

[Lookingforward]

I read this article on the Internet about the behavior of our closest animal relatives in the evolutionary chain and got to thinking. Maybe, in some very complex way, there is a reason for cheating that is actually built into our genes...into the way we are. Yes, of course we all have free will and can make our own decisions but there are many things about human behavior that just seem uncontrollable at times. The article ----> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25218592/

 

yes, attempting to ensure the strongest and best gene traits survive is an evolutionary goal.

[smartgirl]

Of course we struggle with our biological impulses. One, they believe, was to eat as much as you could when food was available to add fat that could sustain you during famine times. Evolution didn't see the grocery store and "all you can eat bar" coming I guess.

 

I don't think anyone will really dispute that there isn't some degree of biological imperative associated with cheating. With more women in the workplace there are vastly more opportunties now for temptations in that area -- in both directions.

 

But many people also believe that as allegedly intelligent beings, we should strive to rise above some of our biological impulses. Does morality play a role here? I think it does. I personally don't believe in the "you will go to hell" kind of morality. But I think that to live a life where we don't harm ourselves and the people around us is a good place to start.

 

We can acknowledge the nature and origins of our various biological impulses. The question then for each person is, do you use that knowledge to guide your life or do you use it to excuse your impulse driven actions.

[Trialbyfire]

We are also genetically programmed to crap whenever and whereever we need to. Most, not all, adults have learned to use a toilet.

 

We are genetically programmed to be omnivorous. Why do vegans and vegetarians exist?

 

We are genetically programmed to reproduce. Why isn't every childbearing woman herding a six to bakers dozen pack of children?

[Lookingforward]

We are also genetically programmed to crap whenever and whereever we need to. Most, not all, adults have learned to use a toilet.

 

We are genetically programmed to be omnivorous. Why do vegans and vegetarians exist?

 

We are genetically programmed to reproduce. Why isn't every childbearing woman herding a six to bakers dozen pack of children?

 

obviously because we have imposed those artificial restrictions on our behaviour - and your point is ?

[Trialbyfire]

obviously because we have imposed those artificial restrictions on our behaviour - and your point is ?

I'm very happy using a toilet. Aren't you?

[Lookingforward]

I'm very happy using a toilet. Aren't you?

 

I'm just as happy to make like a bear and chit in the woods if that's where I am, too LOL

[blind_otter]

obviously because we have imposed those artificial restrictions on our behaviour - and your point is ?

 

I think it's funny when people go on and on about "artificial restrictions on our behavior" - as if that's a bad thing. If we ran around living like animals, well, that's precisely what we would be. Since most of us choose to live in a society, it is necessary to follow certain rules of engagement, so to speak, to minimize aggression and conflict.

[amerikajin]

I'm conflicted when I think about this subject sometimes.

 

On the one hand, I believe that it's human nature to want to stray, not because we get some sick satisfaction out of wanting to inflict injury upon on our mate, but because we, for whatever reason, just aren't feeling the desire to stay involved with the same person sexually. In some cases, it's deeper than that, and it's a genuine dislike for the partner, but not always.

 

On the other hand, though, there are a lot of couples who stay wedded for 50 years or more. I have to admit that it's a sight to see when you see couples who've bonded together exclusively for that long. There's obviously something healthy there. It's just that over the course of my life, that has been the exception, not the rule. Is it because we've lost our discipline as a society? Do we need to be brainwashed into accepting monogamy as the only choice?

[Lookingforward]

I think it's funny when people go on and on about "artificial restrictions on our behavior" - as if that's a bad thing. If we ran around living like animals, well, that's precisely what we would be. Since most of us choose to live in a society, it is necessary to follow certain rules of engagement, so to speak, to minimize aggression and conflict.

 

I don't believe I said it was a bad thing if you read my posts

[amerikajin]

I think it's funny when people go on and on about "artificial restrictions on our behavior" - as if that's a bad thing. If we ran around living like animals, well, that's precisely what we would be. Since most of us choose to live in a society, it is necessary to follow certain rules of engagement, so to speak, to minimize aggression and conflict.

 

That's basically why we have rules or "morals" in the first place. Archaeological evidence suggests that the roots of Judeo-Christian/Western morality originate from the Sumerian kingdom about 5,000-8,000 or so years ago, if I recall correctly. That would have been not too long after the agricultural revolution, a time when humans began learning how to farm and keep large stores of food on hand, which eventually brought to a close man's days as a hunter-gatherer and ushered in a new era in which humans started living in communities and, eventually, cities. I think that the Commandments were written at a time when people were still trying to rid themselves of their natural impulses so that they could adapt and learn how to live in larger populations. I think of morals not so much in terms of 'right' and 'wrong', but in terms of how people best make peace with each other.

[blind_otter]

I'm conflicted when I think about this subject sometimes.

 

On the one hand, I believe that it's human nature to want to stray, not because we get some sick satisfaction out of wanting to inflict injury upon on our mate, but because we, for whatever reason, just aren't feeling the desire to stay involved with the same person sexually. In some cases, it's deeper than that, and it's a genuine dislike for the partner, but not always.

 

On the other hand, though, there are a lot of couples who stay wedded for 50 years or more. I have to admit that it's a sight to see when you see couples who've bonded together exclusively for that long. There's obviously something healthy there. It's just that over the course of my life, that has been the exception, not the rule. Is it because we've lost our discipline as a society? Do we need to be brainwashed into accepting monogamy as the only choice?

 

Well the thing is, from what I've read about sexuality amongst other species, there tend to be two basic types (and in certain species of birds, for example, or lizards - these two types are not only behaviorally different but also phenotypically distinct).

 

There are male cheaters who have the urge to spread their seed far and wide, and there are males who are monogamously inclined, who tend to invest their energy in nurturing offspring. The seed spreaders rarely invest in their offspring to such a degree - I guess in evolutionary terms they are playing the numbers game, reproducing often with many different females and betting that at least some of the offspring will survive, likely raised by cuckholded males. The monogamously inclined males tend to invest more heavily in fewer offspring.

 

I'd say that it's highly likely that not ALL human beings are inclined to promiscuity, just some. Thus, there are those who can and do maintain mongamous relationships throughout their lives, and there are those who simply cannot.

[Order & Chaos]

I think it's funny when people go on and on about "artificial restrictions on our behavior" - as if that's a bad thing. If we ran around living like animals, well, that's precisely what we would be. Since most of us choose to live in a society, it is necessary to follow certain rules of engagement, so to speak, to minimize aggression and

conflict.

 

Well, actually, there are animals that mate for life as well so one could say trying to do that is just as "animalistic" as anything else.

 

I don't think people use it as an excuse to cheat but just another layer of the human psyche.

[blind_otter]

Well, actually, there are animals that mate for life as well so one could say trying to do that is just as "animalistic" as anything else.

 

Actually, recent research indicates that monogamy in the animal kingdom is not as common or as strict as we used to think, thanks to the advent of genetic testing.

 

Yet as biologists have discovered through the application of DNA paternity tests to the offspring of these bonded pairs, social monogamy is very rarely accompanied by sexual, or genetic, monogamy. Assay the kids in a given brood, whether of birds, voles, lesser apes, foxes or any other pair-bonding species, and anywhere from 10 to 70 percent will prove to have been sired by somebody other than the resident male.

 

(http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/18/science/18angi.html?n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/People/A/Angier,%20Natalie)

 

According to David Barash, a psych professor and researcher at the Univ of Washington, the only monogamous species he has observed is the diplozoon paradoxum, a flatworm that lives in gills of freshwater fish - and they are only monogamous because of their reproductive method. They meet as adolescents and their bodies fuse together.