Realization

[mistresswchildren]

I think that by coming to this forum and seeing all the pain that As cause for everyone that I am coming to a realization that it's not worth it. I am still "young" and I can find a healthy relationship that is worth my time. It still hurts, and maybe it always will, but I think that by reading what other people have written I realize that this will never work.

 

I try to tell myself that I am worth more than what I have been given from this MM, but saying it and feeling it are two different things. The real question is, does the OW ever give up hope entirely? I know that I might try to go NC, but that does not mean that I won't still hope that he will contact me and try to get me back in his life. I guess I won't know until I try it.

 

If anyone has advice on how to keep the NC going, I would appreciate it greatly. When I see that he is calling, my heart jumps. I get excited (even though I know that the conversation will be full of excuses and lies). I think that everyone here might say, just don't answer, but how do you convince yourself not to answer? How do you get to that point where enough is enough. I have been to hell and back with this guy, and I wish I could remind myself of that every time that he contacts me. The issue is, for that one moment when he calls, all bets are off. I want to talk to him. I want to feel loved. I want to tell him how much I love him. I don't know why. He has treated not only me, but also our children, horribly. There are no excuses for his behavior. For that matter, there are no excuses for mine.

 

I slept with a married man, and I suppose that my penance is to hurt every time I think of him (which is a lot because both of our children look very much like their father). I think I just need a lot of support. I cannot get it anywhere else. This is my only safe haven. Any word of encouragement or wisdom from those of you who read this could really help. Thank you all for you insight and support to date. I may be new here, but for the most part, those who post here are here to help. They are here to say, "I've been where you are, and I don't want to see you hurt any more." That is why I post so often. That is why I continue coming here.

Edited April 3, 2008 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Owl]

I think that by coming to this forum and seeing all the pain that As cause for everyone that I am coming to a realization that it's not worth it. I am still "young" and I can find a healthy relationship that is worth my time. It still hurts, and maybe it always will, but I think that by reading what other people have written I realize that this will never work.

 

GREAT!!! That is EXACTLY the kind of realization that I wish more OW could come to as quickly as you have!!!

 

The real question is, does the OW ever give up hope entirely? I know that I might try to go NC, but that does not mean that I won't still hope that he will contact me and try to get me back in his life. I guess I won't know until I try it. If anyone has advice on how to keep the NC going, I would appreciate it greatly. When I see that he is calling, my heart jumps. I get excited (even though I know that the conversation will be full of excuses and lies).

 

This isn't unique to being the OW. What you feel is what you'd feel in ANY "new" relationship...and those feelings may be extended a longer duration because its an affair, but honestly, its just the normal feelings that you feel during the "honeymoon phase" of any relationship.

 

You've felt it before, when you were involved with someone else. Its just "special" right now, because its with him. Its what's going on right now.

 

Is it easy to end a relationship of any kind? Nope...not that I've ever experienced at least.

 

But SHOULD you do it when you know that the relationship is unhealthy/unworkable? Absolutely.

 

Will it hurt? Darn skippy. But you'll heal over time, with work. And you'll learn from this experience...it'll make you a better person in the long run.

 

You're moving in the right direction...take action on that while you're feeling the way you are.

 

End the affair...now. Today.

 

You'll hurt in the short term, but feel MUCH better in the long term.

[PandorasBox]

"Thank you all for you insight and support to date. I may be new here, but for the most part, those who post here are here to help. They are here to say, "I've been where you are, and I don't want to see you hurt any more." That is why I post so often. That is why I continue coming here."

 

 

I think its good you see it like that....Most people here are trying to help....however, alot of people don't see it like that...they think everything that comes out of a persons mouth is a personal attack.....and I disagree with that....the OW/OM forum is a touchy forum and it can be explosive, emotional and out of control at times...but there are alot of emotions involved....from OM/OW and BS, so that is to be expected.

 

Its good you post here. Its good to see the other side of the coin at times.....I also feel though...if its a place that causes people pain...more stress than they might already be having...or people who continuly go around and around about things...with nothing getting resolved..I think that can do more harm than good..and then its more than likely a waste of time.

[LOVE DAISIES]

MWC....(((hugs))))))

 

I have not responded to you personally yet..but I wanted to wish you luck...you WILL be ok. Just keep coming here for support...it will get better.

[mistresswchildren]

GREAT!!! That is EXACTLY the kind of realization that I wish more OW could come to as quickly as you have!!!

 

 

 

This isn't unique to being the OW. What you feel is what you'd feel in ANY "new" relationship...and those feelings may be extended a longer duration because its an affair, but honestly, its just the normal feelings that you feel during the "honeymoon phase" of any relationship.

 

You've felt it before, when you were involved with someone else. Its just "special" right now, because its with him. Its what's going on right now.

 

OWL

Sadly, it wasn't a quick realization. It has taken me three and half years, and two children to realize all of this. That is the problem. The "honeymoon phase" has been over for a while. I just held on like a silly little girl. Maybe it had something to do with my age when we started the affair. I think that by coming here, I just cemented my feelings on the whole thing. I'm not sure that anyone realizes that having someone that can relate and talk to helps way more than any amount of counseling. That is why I stopped going to counseling in the first place. They weren't helping. They were trying to get me to come to my own conclusions about all of this without having any clear understanding of what I was going through.

I just hope that I can continue to stay strong. It is the easiest thing in the world to go back. It is the easiest thing to let him back in to corrupt my life some more. I need to stop aiding him in my own inevitable destruction. It will happen, I just need to keep the strength that I feel right now.

[Owl]

Well...I'll say this.

 

Yes...you screwed up. And yes, it took a while for you to get to where you're at now.

 

Consider yourself verbally chastised by me for it.

 

Now...realize that getting to where you're at is a MAJOR step...and you should be proud of yourself. Seriously.

 

And I'm NOT known as one of the 'hand-holders' on this site...LOL...ask around!

 

Like I said...make sure you take action NOW,while you feel that strength. You'll have times when you won't feel as strong...and times when you'll feel stronger. Take advantage of your strength to make the changes you need to, and put things in place to help make them irrevocable so that you can stick to them when you DON'T feel as strong.

[Meaplus3]

I think that by coming to this forum and seeing all the pain that As cause for everyone that I am coming to a realization that it's not worth it. I am still "young" and I can find a healthy relationship that is worth my time. It still hurts, and maybe it always will, but I think that by reading what other people have written I realize that this will never work. I try to tell myself that I am worth more than what I have been given from this MM, but saying it and feeling it are two different things. The real question is, does the OW ever give up hope entirely? I know that I might try to go NC, but that does not mean that I won't still hope that he will contact me and try to get me back in his life. I guess I won't know until I try it. If anyone has advice on how to keep the NC going, I would appreciate it greatly. When I see that he is calling, my heart jumps. I get excited (even though I know that the conversation will be full of excuses and lies). I think that everyone here might say, just don't answer, but how do you convince yourself not to answer? How do you get to that point where enough is enough. I have been to hell and back with this guy, and I wish I could remind myself of that every time that he contacts me. The issue is, for that one moment when he calls, all bets are off. I want to talk to him. I want to feel loved. I want to tell him how much I love him. I don't know why. He has treated not only me, but also our children, horribly. There are no excuses for his behavior. For that matter, there are no excuses for mine. I slept with a married man, and I suppose that my penance is to hurt every time I think of him (which is a lot because both of our children look very much like their father). I think I just need a lot of support. I cannot get it anywhere else. This is my only safe haven. Any word of encouragement or wisdom from those of you who read this could really help. Thank you all for you insight and support to date. I may be new here, but for the most part, those who post here are here to help. They are here to say, "I've been where you are, and I don't want to see you hurt any more." That is why I post so often. That is why I continue coming here.

 

It sounds to me like you have come to the realize that the pain from all this is simply not worth it anymore. Now with that realization no contact is the way to go. While No contact might be tough at first, it's really the only way to fully disconnect yourself from this mm. You can do this because you are strong. Hang in there.

 

AP:)

[Gwyneth]

The problem is, you already have two children with this man. Are your children ready to lose their father?

 

I have learned a great deal around here too--even though I still have my issues with the same five all the time, but try to do what's best for your kiddies. This is a hard situation.

 

If I were you, I would tell MM "listen, this is killing me. It's affecting out children's lives. Either you leave your wife or you leave us." It's that simple MWC. I know it doesn't sound so, but either / or has to be done. He's living two lives--kind of like a polygamist.

[child_of_isis]

Look what you wrote in your post.

 

you want to talk to him but you know you will hear lies & excuses.(even though I know that the conversation will be full of excuses and lies) . .

You want to talk to him because you want to feel loved. (The issue is, for that one moment when he calls, all bets are off. I want to talk to him. I want to feel loved. I want to tell him how much I love him)

Can you see in your post what I can see?

 

 

It's like the OW's walk around with 2 people in their head. 2 sets of thoughts. One being the crap that MM tells them, versus what their own selves are trying to tell them.

[whichwayisup]

The problem is, you already have two children with this man. Are your children ready to lose their father?

 

The kids won't lose their father..She is just ending her A with him. Just like any other situation when a couple breaks up and custody issues come up.

[Gwyneth]

The kids won't lose their father..She is just ending her A with him. Just like any other situation when a couple breaks up and custody issues come up.

 

Ahh. I took NC as every thing ends. My bad.

 

child_of_isis

It's like the OW's walk around with 2 people in their head. 2 sets of thoughts. One being the crap that MM tells them, versus what their own selves are trying to tell them.

 

Today 11:26 AM

 

Clearly you haven't realized that being the OW isn't all fun and dandy like you must think it is. It's hard--really, it is. Especially when their is a child(ren) involved. That makes it even harder. You can't just think for yourself--you have to think for that child too. I have spent the past month trying to explain this and still, You and others cannot grasp this concept at all.

[used2saynvr]

click on these articles below. they may help you/us...

 

[FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=#800080]http://www.talkaboutsupport.com/group/alt.support.shyness/messages/559097.html[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=#800080]http://ezinearticles.com/?Getting-Over-a-Married-Man&id=659413[/COLOR][/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=#800080]http://www.loveletterbox.com/love_advice_exciting_life_after_breakup.htm[/COLOR][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=#800080]http://lonelyou.com/Article-biggest-mistake-to-avoid-after-break-up.html[/COLOR][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

[mistresswchildren]

The problem is, you already have two children with this man. Are your children ready to lose their father?

 

I have learned a great deal around here too--even though I still have my issues with the same five all the time, but try to do what's best for your kiddies. This is a hard situation.

 

If I were you, I would tell MM "listen, this is killing me. It's affecting out children's lives. Either you leave your wife or you leave us." It's that simple MWC. I know it doesn't sound so, but either / or has to be done. He's living two lives--kind of like a polygamist.

 

Gwyn

I know that having NC with him is hard to do because of the children, but trust me, it really does seem like the better thing to do. The real question is now that I am not going to have a relationship with him, will he even want to see the kids? Ask yourself the same question. He was all for it in the beginning. He told me he wanted to be informed. He told me he wanted to be in their lives. He said there was nothing more important. After they were born he began to waver. He does not send them gifts, cards, letters. He has purchased two gifts for our son over a span of two and half years. He has never met his daughter. Also, getting him to sign an agreement for child support was like pulling teeth. If the kids were so important to him, then why on earth wouldn't he want to provide for them from a financial stance? It took until my son was 18 months old for the child support to come through, and even then their were issues. I am still not receiving the child support for my daughter. Although I honestly wish I didn't need the money, he should still feel a responsibility to them. Even after my graduation (in May by the way:)), I feel that I would still hold him responsible from a financial stand point so that he can always remember what he did. Each month, when there is a large chunk of his paycheck missing, he will think about what he did to not only me and my children, but also his W. I think that is a fairly good punishment. At one point in time I thought that I needed to contact his W further and tell her more details, but then I realized that I don't need to. Every time they argue, she will win. She will always be able to trump him with, "Well, at least I didn't knock someone else up, twice." That is how he will be punished. I feel bad in some ways for his W because it will probably always hurt her, but I made my bed and she made hers. I'm getting out, she has that option if she wants it. Odds are that I will not be the last person that he cheats with (he is in the military, so adultery is WAY more common).

I think that I am honestly thinking about the kids. Why would they want a man like him in their lives? If he chooses to see them, I will not stop him, but I have yet to see him make that choice. I don't want the kids to feel rejected because "Daddy" said he would show up and didn't. There has always been an excuse to tell me, and I do not see his children being any different. I hope your situation is different, but only time will tell.

[whichwayisup]

Then hopefully you two can come to some sort of conclusion so he can have visitation and spend time with the kids. Get it in writing, talk to a lawyer. If he plans on seeing them, then he also should expect some $$ to go your way for the kids.

[mistresswchildren]

Then hopefully you two can come to some sort of conclusion so he can have visitation and spend time with the kids. Get it in writing, talk to a lawyer. If he plans on seeing them, then he also should expect some $$ to go your way for the kids.

 

Sadly, a lawyer will not do any good until he returns from his deployment. Right now, it is a waiting game. I have no idea what he will really do. I have asked him before, if we didn't work out, would he still want to see the kids. At first he said absolutely, but as time went on there were more excuses. He has said that because we live in different states it would be really difficult. He has also said that because he is in the military he will move around a lot or be deployed. I wish I could get a straight answer out of him, but what should I expect? He lies all the time, how would I even know it was the truth or if he was just telling me what he thinks is the "right" answer. It will be a while before I have to deal with all of this. I do feel that he has a right to see them, but only if it is a continuing thing. This is not a situation of convenience. It is not about when he has time, or if he's not doing anything else. These are little lives that should not be messed with. He is not allowed to shatter their hearts the way he has shattered mine. Either he is all in, or he is out. As a mother I am like a bear in this respect. You do not mess with the mama bear's cubs. Again, I will just have to wait and see what happens. The only problem with that is that if he really wants to keep me in his life "just for kicks," then he will use our bond as parents (I use that loosely in application to him) to get me to talk to him. I just have to remember to separate the two. When he gets off topic, I need to simply say, "Is that all you needed from me about the kids?" If he says yes, then I need to say goodbye and hang up. These are the things that I know I should do, and that I want to do, let's just see if I am strong enough to keep doing it.

[nadiaj2727]

MWC,

Good for you for finding strength and wisdom. I am so proud of you. I really admire you, ever since your first posts.

 

I too came here as an OW on the verge of realizing how very very crappy it is... and because of what I saw here, I found the strength to leave. Just walk away. That will help your kids because you will have independence and self-sufficiency. You won't be relying on a scumbag to meet your emotional needs.

 

You can always make a new choice that starts undoing the hurt of past choices. You are an example that it's never too late or "too far in" for a fresh start. I'm so glad you've picked now as the time!! Thanks for sharing!!!

[Gwyneth]

Gwyn

I know that having NC with him is hard to do because of the children, but trust me, it really does seem like the better thing to do. The real question is now that I am not going to have a relationship with him, will he even want to see the kids? Ask yourself the same question. He was all for it in the beginning. He told me he wanted to be informed. He told me he wanted to be in their lives. He said there was nothing more important. After they were born he began to waver. He does not send them gifts, cards, letters. He has purchased two gifts for our son over a span of two and half years. He has never met his daughter. Also, getting him to sign an agreement for child support was like pulling teeth. If the kids were so important to him, then why on earth wouldn't he want to provide for them from a financial stance? It took until my son was 18 months old for the child support to come through, and even then their were issues. I am still not receiving the child support for my daughter. Although I honestly wish I didn't need the money, he should still feel a responsibility to them. Even after my graduation (in May by the way:)), I feel that I would still hold him responsible from a financial stand point so that he can always remember what he did. Each month, when there is a large chunk of his paycheck missing, he will think about what he did to not only me and my children, but also his W. I think that is a fairly good punishment. At one point in time I thought that I needed to contact his W further and tell her more details, but then I realized that I don't need to. Every time they argue, she will win. She will always be able to trump him with, "Well, at least I didn't knock someone else up, twice." That is how he will be punished. I feel bad in some ways for his W because it will probably always hurt her, but I made my bed and she made hers. I'm getting out, she has that option if she wants it. Odds are that I will not be the last person that he cheats with (he is in the military, so adultery is WAY more common).

I think that I am honestly thinking about the kids. Why would they want a man like him in their lives? If he chooses to see them, I will not stop him, but I have yet to see him make that choice. I don't want the kids to feel rejected because "Daddy" said he would show up and didn't. There has always been an excuse to tell me, and I do not see his children being any different. I hope your situation is different, but only time will tell.

 

He's never met your daughter? Wow.

 

I plan on having my lawyer involved as much as possible. Unfortunately men can easily walk away from their children--I've seen it so many times. Whether the parents divorce, or the child is an Ooopsie, the man walks away. That is why I want to make sure I am legally supported. And that is why I gave him two choices from day one. He now has six months or so to make up his mind. So far he has stuck with wanting to be a part of the child's life. I can't argue that with him, but I won't let him jerk this child around. It's not fair to the baby. But I can't sit here and predict what will happen. Some men just aren't cut out to be a father no matter how old they are. Well MM seemed happy about this pregnancy, and he even shed a tear when he saw the baby on the US.

 

Good Luck to You

[mistresswchildren]

He's never met your daughter? Wow.

 

I plan on having my lawyer involved as much as possible. Unfortunately men can easily walk away from their children--I've seen it so many times. Whether the parents divorce, or the child is an Ooopsie, the man walks away. That is why I want to make sure I am legally supported. And that is why I gave him two choices from day one. He now has six months or so to make up his mind. So far he has stuck with wanting to be a part of the child's life. I can't argue that with him, but I won't let him jerk this child around. It's not fair to the baby. But I can't sit here and predict what will happen. Some men just aren't cut out to be a father no matter how old they are. Well MM seemed happy about this pregnancy, and he even shed a tear when he saw the baby on the US.

 

Good Luck to You

Not to contradict you or anything Gwyn, but my MM did the SAME thing. He cried tears of joy (or maybe they were just tears because he realized what an a**hole he was). Then he took off. I do not mean to defend my MM in any way, but he hasn't met his daughter yet because he was deployed when I had her. That one wasn't his fault. The two years that he missed in our son's life, however, is his fault. I think that you should probably sit down and have a realistic conversation about this with your xMM. You also have to realize that at some point, if he chooses to be involved, his W will have to be told. There is a lot of complexities that our situations raise that not a lot of people understand. Just hang in there.

[Gwyneth]

Not to contradict you or anything Gwyn, but my MM did the SAME thing. He cried tears of joy (or maybe they were just tears because he realized what an a**hole he was). Then he took off. I do not mean to defend my MM in any way, but he hasn't met his daughter yet because he was deployed when I had her. That one wasn't his fault. The two years that he missed in our son's life, however, is his fault. I think that you should probably sit down and have a realistic conversation about this with your xMM. You also have to realize that at some point, if he chooses to be involved, his W will have to be told. There is a lot of complexities that our situations raise that not a lot of people understand. Just hang in there.

 

Well of course then that's uncontrollable if he's over seas. How old are your children now?

 

Well his last email indicates he's ready for some big changes. So like I said, I'll have to see. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt no matter whom they are. Stranger things have happened.

[mistresswchildren]

Well of course then that's uncontrollable if he's over seas. How old are your children now?

 

Well his last email indicates he's ready for some big changes. So like I said, I'll have to see. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt no matter whom they are. Stranger things have happened.

 

My son is 26 months and my daughter is 8 months (almost 9). Hey, at least they are gorgeous.

[Gwyneth]

My son is 26 months and my daughter is 8 months (almost 9). Hey, at least they are gorgeous.

 

 

Is he still deployed? And does his W know about these children?

 

They're still young. They might not remember their father if you go through with NC and consider keeping him from them. But if he's still deployed, I don't know how fair that is. He's serving his country--that's very heroic. But if he hasn't told his wife over 2 years later...when does he plan on? By now, I would have told her myself

[Gwyneth]

Additionally:

 

My cousin's mom left her and her father when she was about 2 years old. She is now a 42-year-old woman with a family of her own, but has no recollection of her mother. She also said that since her mom left her when she was so young, it never hurt her because not having her mom in her life was all she knew. I was always facinated by this. I have heard of dad's leaving, but a mommy? It was incredible to me. It still hurts the father to this day as he never wants to talk about it. I think the mother remarried and had more children. She even tried to get in contact with my cousin as an adult some years ago, but she said she has absolutely no use for the woman.

 

She grew up just fine. She has a wonderful husband, two great sons, a nice house. Great job. BMW. What more does a woman need?

[mistresswchildren]

 

Is he still deployed? And does his W know about these children?

 

They're still young. They might not remember their father if you go through with NC and consider keeping him from them. But if he's still deployed, I don't know how fair that is. He's serving his country--that's very heroic. But if he hasn't told his wife over 2 years later...when does he plan on? By now, I would have told her myself

 

I kind of did. It was one of those gut reactions. She answered his phone while he was in training and I told her she might want to ask him about his son (since at that point they had no children). Then he told me that they were getting a divorce. He gave me the lawyer's number and even showed me an unfiled copy of the divorce decree (which I later found out was a fake).

As far as him being in Iraq and that being heroic and all, I'm not sure I agree. He is a coward like no other. He blames others for his mistakes. He will not tell the truth to anyone. It actually makes me worry because he is in command of young soldiers over there. What is he going to do if things get rough? Is he going to run and hide like he has in his personal life?

I will not keep the kids from him, but I will not encourage him to seek visitation. If he wants it (and I mean really wants it) then he can see them. As for my kids, I will tell them the truth when they can understand. I will not tell them all the details, as no child needs to know, but when they ask "Where's Daddy?" I will not lie. I will tell them simply that "Daddy" chose not to be with us. That is simple enough. Hopefully, I will never get a "Why?" on that, but if so, I suppose I will have to tell them the truth.

What he will do is anyone's guess. All I know is that I plan on having a good lawyer when he gets home. If he wants visitation, it will have to be on my terms. This means that in the beginning it will be supervised by the court, and their "step-mother" (what do my children call his W?) will have nothing to do with them. She has threatened them anyway, so I really do not feel that it is me being a jealous OW. I truly fear for my children around her. Maybe one day she will be able to be involved, but until she is "over" the affair, I am not sure. It is a touchy situation.

[Gwyneth]

 

but when they ask "Where's Daddy?" I will not lie. I will tell them simply that "Daddy" chose not to be with us. That is simple enough. Hopefully, I will never get a "Why?" on that, but if so, I suppose I will have to tell them the truth.

What he will do is anyone's guess. All I know is that I plan on having a good lawyer when he gets home. If he wants visitation, it will have to be on my terms. This means that in the beginning it will be supervised by the court, and their "step-mother" (what do my children call his W?) will have nothing to do with them. She has threatened them anyway, so I really do not feel that it is me being a jealous OW. I truly fear for my children around her. Maybe one day she will be able to be involved, but until she is "over" the affair, I am not sure. It is a touchy situation.

 

Here's where you and I compare.

 

Well, first, he better grow some balls if he's in Iraq.

 

Second, the children will ask "why," especially when they're at that "why" for every thing stage (usually around 4 years old).

 

Third, I too have been consulting with my lawyer--which MM knows I am. I already told MM I don't want my baby around his wife, and I will go as far as supervised visitation if he gives me Any reason to fear for my child's life--especially where she is involved. Who knows, she might kill him before the kid's born

 

Anyway, I don't forsee her to be a problem. I have that gut feeling she'll pack up and move back to where she's from (and belongs according to him ).

 

What kind of "threats" has this woman, who BTW is their step-mom by default, made toward your children? She must be insane to make threats against two kiddies whom are the innocent parties of this whole situation.

[mistresswchildren]

 

What kind of "threats" has this woman, who BTW is their step-mom by default, made toward your children? She must be insane to make threats against two kiddies whom are the innocent parties of this whole situation.

 

I'm not putting blame on her, because I placed myself in this situation, but yes, I feel that she is a bit unbalanced. She has said that she would never be safe around them. She has screamed in the background while her husband was on the phone with me that she hoped I had a miscarriage. My son was born with problems (cord around neck three times and a knot in the cord), and she said that she wished she could be there to turn off the oxygen.

I realize that I would be angry if I were in her shoes, but I would NEVER threaten the life of a child. Who does that, honestly? The situation just escalated to really ugly really quickly as soon as she found out. I'm not saying that is always the case. As I said, she is not exactly balanced.

Positive aspect is that I recorded a phone conversation between MM and myself. Within it, he states that she would never properly care for them, and that she would never want them. He knew I was recording it so it is admissible in court (yes, I have him on the recording saying that he didn't care that I recorded it).

I take responsibility for my actions entirely, but sometimes I think that his W blames only me for her problems. She puts no responsibility on him whatsoever. It's interesting from time to time, let me tell you.