So what's he waiting for?!

[phoenixgirl]

Let me know if you need more info, but I think most people know the details by now.

 

So about a month ago, now-ex sMM told me that he was moving back home for "financial reasons" - which I don't believe at all because I tried to brainstorm other financial options with him (NOT including moving in with me), but nothing would sway him. After about four days of hardcore fighting it I realized that he wasn't going to change his mind. We've been limited NC for three weeks, as full NC as possible for two and a half - we only talk about work-related issues. I broke it once (a text message) but there were no serious repercussions. (I think I have all the math correct there)

 

In the last week he has tried to break NC a couple of times, but has been respectful when I reminded him of WHY we're NC. He backed off... which as I said before, kind of hurts but it's necessary.

 

So my question is - it's been more than a month since he said he's moving back home. He's the kind of person who, once he decides to do something, usually DOES it. SO WHY HASN'T HE MOVED BACK HOME YET? I know for a fact that he hasn't because his best friend is my ally and is very supportive, we talk often. He said he was going to, I took it at face value and broke up with him (for various reasons), we're NC, and he STILL hasn't gone back... why?

 

Any thoughts?

[OpenBook]

I don't know why this reminds me of the Jack Klugman story (I started a thread about it last week,... but I don't think it's interesting enough for us all to talk about!!). Anyway, here's the first paragraph:

 

"I just read about Jack Klugman (who's 85) marrying his longtime OW. He'd been separated from his W since 1974 (!!) but never divorced her. Well, she died last year. So this past Saturday he exchanged wedding vows with his OW, Peggy Crosby (Bing's ex-DIL) who's been with him for the last 20 years. Talk about hanging in there!! ..."

 

I never did get a good answer as to why some MM carry on with their OW's and live completely separate lives from their W's -- but they just can't bring themselves to take that final step and divorce. Maybe your MM is doing the same thing.

 

One common theme among most of the MM/OW situations I've read about on here, is that the MM is typically very confused, and it shows in his behavior.

 

In your MM's case, his unhappiness in his M drove him to actually leave the marital home. Now he has to go back to that same unhappy scenario. I bet he's just thrilled. It sounds like he's still pining for you. He's caught between a rock (you/happiness) and a hard place (financial/staying married). And he can't make a decision to save his life. I think he's trying every trick in the book to avoid choosing one or the other.

 

I guess the question is, how long are you willing to wait around for him? Are you going to be like Peggy Crosby and wait 20+ years until the W dies?

 

Maybe your MM is thinking he can still have you AND stay married to his W. (His breaking NC was maybe his way of "testing the waters" to see if that avenue would work?) Are you going to let him get away with that?

 

It's apparently up to you to choose for him, to break the "Mexican standoff" you both find yourselves in. The way it's looking right now, you can't depend on him to do anything. I'm sorry you're in this predicament. You must be disappointed in him on some level... and I wouldn't blame you at all.

[noforgiveness]

Maybe he never really left on his own. Maybe his wife tossed his butt out because of you and will not let him back home and he is begging and pleading.

[OpenBook]

Maybe he never really left on his own. Maybe his wife tossed his butt out because of you and will not let him back home and he is begging and pleading.

 

Actually, this is quite possible. Phoenix, is there any way to verify whether this is true? If he is in fact begging and pleading to be let back in at home, then that would be all the answer I would need if I were in your shoes... time to leave this puppy in the dust!

[phoenixgirl]

From what I understand from first-hand knowledge and from him, she *did* kick him out on D-Day and he was *not* ready to leave. So there is that issue, of course (requisite guilt, unresolved issues, etc.). At the last minute, before he was actually gone, she changed her mind and begged him *not* to leave after all but he refused to change his mind.

 

From what I understand from his SIL, his mom, himself, and from her (when she told me to "butt out" of their lives), she is the one begging him to come home. Not just begging him, but giving him regular ultimatums. I have NEVER given him an ultimatum. He knows how I feel and he knows what I want, but I will not force him to choose - to me, that's just not real love. It's a choice only HE can make anyway.

 

And *I* was the one who broke NC with the text messaging initially; he was very short in his response and I took the hint. I don't know what his deal was with breaking NC this week; in the past when we haven't stuck with NC, he's broken it by getting "physical," and he hasn't even attempted that. He's only tried conversation a couple of times - I know that sounds like I'm making excuses for him, but it really is an improvement from previous behaviors.

 

He *is* afraid of making decisions... but he's already made it! And like I said, once he DOES make decisions, he follows through with them and usually nothing can change his mind. So I just don't understand why he hasn't followed through... I haven't given him any reason to hang on to me.

[noforgiveness]

His mom and sil talk to you about their marriage?????

 

That is so wrong on so many levels. Giving ultimatums can be a lot different then what you think. She could say you have x amount of time to come totally clean with me and come home or I am seeing a lawyer. If she threw him out she probably has a laundry list of things he needs to do before he comes back home one of them I'm sure is no contact with you for a certain amount of time which he has not been able to do.

[phoenixgirl]

Giving ultimatums can be a lot different then what you think. She could say you have x amount of time to come totally clean with me and come home or I am seeing a lawyer. If she threw him out she probably has a laundry list of things he needs to do before he comes back home one of them I'm sure is no contact with you for a certain amount of time which he has not been able to do.

 

I totally understand all that, and don't have a problem with it (fundamentally) - it's one of the many reasons why I broke things off and implemented NC when he said he was going home. I don't know about the laundry list thing, though.

 

One of the things I've told him from day one is that if he would be happier going home and being with her, then that's what he needs to do; I would hurt and grieve and hate it hate it hate it, but he needs to do what's best for him and I'll manage to move on. He wasn't happy in his M long before I ever came along; either things will be worse because of me once he goes home, or our A will end up supercharging their M so they will live happily ever after.

[LucreziaBorgia]

What is he waiting for? His wife to let him back home, I guess.

[whichwayisup]

if he would be happier going home and being with her, then that's what he needs to do

 

And it seems that's what he's trying to do, if his wife will let him back in the house.

 

I know you're in alot of pain, but you need to try to focus on you, focus on healing. Wondering the why's and what's going on between him and his wife, is only making you feel worse. It's out of your hands..Whatever is going to happen, will happen...It's their choice now on how this plays out..

[phoenixgirl]

Thanks everybody for the replies, but I think the pertinent part of the situation was missed:

 

1. She *is* telling him to come home - RIGHT NOW. She has been for months.

 

2. He *has said* that he's going to, for more than a month now, but has yet to do it.

 

I just wanted thoughts as to maybe why he hadn't followed through on that yet. But WWIU, you make a good point - I need to stop worrying about that and their issues. By even thinking or wondering about it, I'm allowing myself to HOPE, you know?

 

And I just can't fall into that trap again.

[whichwayisup]

I'm allowing myself to HOPE

 

Don't give yourself false hope. If he isn't moving in quite yet, it could mean he needs time alone to think, to help rid of his feelings for you so he can go back home. It seems he is doing this for himself, which is good. He's thinking and aware of what needs to be done the proper way.

 

No, don't fall into the trap.

 

Hope you have a great Easter. Eat chocolate, spend time with your family, enjoy good food and definately FORGET MM this whole weekend. Focus on having a fun time!

[Gwyneth]

Maybe his wife doesn't want him to. Either way, continue using this as your deal breaker. Why break it if it works for you?

[GreenEyedLady]

Thanks everybody for the replies, but I think the pertinent part of the situation was missed:

 

1. She *is* telling him to come home - RIGHT NOW. She has been for months.

 

2. He *has said* that he's going to, for more than a month now, but has yet to do it.

 

I just wanted thoughts as to maybe why he hadn't followed through on that yet. But WWIU, you make a good point - I need to stop worrying about that and their issues. By even thinking or wondering about it, I'm allowing myself to HOPE, you know?

 

And I just can't fall into that trap again.

 

You know what? Would the reason make a difference?

 

And why would you two automatically brainstorm not living together soon?

 

That's what we did...And it's working out amazingly smoothly...

[nadiaj2727]

But WWIU, you make a good point - I need to stop worrying about that and their issues. By even thinking or wondering about it, I'm allowing myself to HOPE, you know?

 

Hi Phoenixgirl, I think you hit the nail on the head here, with WWIU's help. This is the most important part. Try not to focus on him and his life and his wife. I know it's hard, but since you have no idea what he's thinking or what he's going to end up doing, in the meantime you only know what YOU'RE thinking and what you're going to do. You know you're not going to be back in an affair with him while he's still married, right? You know he's still married. So try to be happy without him. I know it may sound easier said than done, but try to redirect your thoughts to positive things and your own self-improvement and development. It's the old "fake it till you make it" method, I've found that it works. By hanging onto him so much in your thoughts, you may not be allowing yourself to move on and be independent without someone you know is in a situation that's not good for you. Best wishes hon. (hugs)

[phoenixgirl]

Nadia, I gotta tell ya - I've got nothin' but love for you. {{{hugs}}} BTW, I posted over on JohnWho's thread about the Christianity thing...

 

GEL, I just simply don't WANT him living with me while he's still married. Too many issues there, even if he were actively involved in a D (which he is not - as far as I know they haven't even talked about it, but I'm not sure). He has too many unresolved issues from having been kicked out on D-Day when he wasn't ready to leave; he's a Cancer and so by nature is very connected to the idea of family and loyalty, and is being torn in a million different directions by what is going on... but he hasn't dealt with any of it. And if I let him live with me, he *wouldn't* deal with it, and those feelings he's burying now would only fester and resurface later in our relationship, and he would end up resenting me for destroying his M regardless of whether I "singlehandedly" did it or not. It doesn't matter that he was unhappy in his M before I came along; if he doesn't dealt with those issues in his head and heart, he'll start idealizing his W and M and I will come up short. I'm not saying this is typical of every situation, but I feel that this would happen with us.

 

Whether he chooses to go home, chooses to be with me, chooses to stay single, or chooses to find someone else (eek!)... whatever, it's a choice he has to make on his own, ON HIS OWN. If he lived with me he wouldn't have any space or clarity, because I obviously want a certain outcome and would be influencing that particular choice. Yes, we're NC primarily for me - I'm doing more for me now than I have in a LONG time - but it's giving him a chance to work on him, too. As much as it hurts, it really is a win-win situation I guess. (I just gotta keep telling myself that, and stop worrying/wondering about what's going on with him/them!)

[Tomcat33]

You can't NOT focus on this right now and you can't NOT let this consume your thoughts so why fight it, you are not going to do any healing or move on right now until you know for sure what's up so sit it out. See what happens.

 

He did say he was moving back home and there was no convincing him otherwise but he hasn't so make a pact with yourself, promise yourself that you will only focus on this until you find out he is actually moved back home. At that point you can close the door on this and start to move on.

Whatever you do DO NOT break NC right now, he could still be thinking things out OR it could be his W is not letting him come back home that was a valid comment seems like the most probable. Either way if he is breaking NC is because he is fighting his decision, so this is why you have to stick to it even more. He obviously still misses you otherwise he would not contact you. And if he does move back home be prepared to contact you some more, they usually do once the reality of being back sets in.

 

 

Pheonix: How long was your A for? How long has he been moved out for?

Why did he suddenly decide to move was it sudden or have you seen a change in him?

[phoenixgirl]

Pheonix: How long was your A for? How long has he been moved out for?

Why did he suddenly decide to move was it sudden or have you seen a change in him?

 

The A was for almost two years. He's been sMM for nine months.

 

Things have been different between us for months - we've been on-again-off-again (sort-of) because I *knew* that he was still dealing with guilt and other issues; he would sometimes go days without contacting me at all, then spend weeks practically smothering me. I tried talking to him about it, but the conversation never went anywhere. When he said he was moving back he said he *had* to because of financial reasons, and that he didn't want to. But again, I don't believe that because when I tried brainstorming other options with him he didn't really want to discuss it. So I figured at that point that moving back home was what he really wanted and he just didn't want to tell me that point-blankly, and that his mind was made up.

[Tomcat33]

Yeah sounds like guilt and confusion, also sounds like the financial is an excuse. He has to sort it out and if you are in the picture and in contact he only thinks of his W or guilt, if you are out of the picture he can balance the two and figure out what he feels.

Been there done that.

 

Did he seperate to be with you? or was he already seperated. That makes a huge difference in terms of guilt. Does his W know about your rel?

[phoenixgirl]

Yeah sounds like guilt and confusion, also sounds like the financial is an excuse. He has to sort it out and if you are in the picture and in contact he only thinks of his W or guilt, if you are out of the picture he can balance the two and figure out what he feels.

Been there done that.

 

Did he seperate to be with you? or was he already seperated. That makes a huge difference in terms of guilt. Does his W know about your rel?

 

No, he wasn't already separated. He wanted to move in with me on D-Day but I wouldn't allow it. Also, after D-Day we took some time off - we didn't date for awhile (about a month or so). And yeah, his W knows about me - hence, D-Day. As I said, that's where all the guilt and confusion comes in, that he wasn't really ready to leave when he left home; he was unhappy in his M and was long before he ever met me (long story, but I do know this is true), but the M was safe and comfortable and a known entity. I think he just wants that security back. (Read about the psychology of abusive relationships - he's a textbook case, really, and not as the abuser.)

[nadiaj2727]

Nadia, I gotta tell ya - I've got nothin' but love for you. {{{hugs}}} BTW, I posted over on JohnWho's thread about the Christianity thing...

 

GEL, I just simply don't WANT him living with me while he's still married. Too many issues there, even if he were actively involved in a D (which he is not - as far as I know they haven't even talked about it, but I'm not sure). He has too many unresolved issues from having been kicked out on D-Day when he wasn't ready to leave; he's a Cancer and so by nature is very connected to the idea of family and loyalty, and is being torn in a million different directions by what is going on... but he hasn't dealt with any of it. And if I let him live with me, he *wouldn't* deal with it, and those feelings he's burying now would only fester and resurface later in our relationship, and he would end up resenting me for destroying his M regardless of whether I "singlehandedly" did it or not. It doesn't matter that he was unhappy in his M before I came along; if he doesn't dealt with those issues in his head and heart, he'll start idealizing his W and M and I will come up short. I'm not saying this is typical of every situation, but I feel that this would happen with us.

 

Whether he chooses to go home, chooses to be with me, chooses to stay single, or chooses to find someone else (eek!)... whatever, it's a choice he has to make on his own, ON HIS OWN. If he lived with me he wouldn't have any space or clarity, because I obviously want a certain outcome and would be influencing that particular choice. Yes, we're NC primarily for me - I'm doing more for me now than I have in a LONG time - but it's giving him a chance to work on him, too. As much as it hurts, it really is a win-win situation I guess. (I just gotta keep telling myself that, and stop worrying/wondering about what's going on with him/them!)

 

Good for you phoenix. Stand on your own two feet and let him stand on his own two feet. You are smart in not allowing him to move in with you before he's determined what he really wants and sorted through all his issues. That would just compound things in my opinion. He has to be with you as a whole person, not a conflicted, half-here, half-there one. (hugs)

[GreenEyedLady]

Nadia, I gotta tell ya - I've got nothin' but love for you. {{{hugs}}} BTW, I posted over on JohnWho's thread about the Christianity thing...

 

GEL, I just simply don't WANT him living with me while he's still married. Too many issues there, even if he were actively involved in a D (which he is not - as far as I know they haven't even talked about it, but I'm not sure). He has too many unresolved issues from having been kicked out on D-Day when he wasn't ready to leave; he's a Cancer and so by nature is very connected to the idea of family and loyalty, and is being torn in a million different directions by what is going on... but he hasn't dealt with any of it. And if I let him live with me, he *wouldn't* deal with it, and those feelings he's burying now would only fester and resurface later in our relationship, and he would end up resenting me for destroying his M regardless of whether I "singlehandedly" did it or not. It doesn't matter that he was unhappy in his M before I came along; if he doesn't dealt with those issues in his head and heart, he'll start idealizing his W and M and I will come up short. I'm not saying this is typical of every situation, but I feel that this would happen with us.

 

Whether he chooses to go home, chooses to be with me, chooses to stay single, or chooses to find someone else (eek!)... whatever, it's a choice he has to make on his own, ON HIS OWN. If he lived with me he wouldn't have any space or clarity, because I obviously want a certain outcome and would be influencing that particular choice. Yes, we're NC primarily for me - I'm doing more for me now than I have in a LONG time - but it's giving him a chance to work on him, too. As much as it hurts, it really is a win-win situation I guess. (I just gotta keep telling myself that, and stop worrying/wondering about what's going on with him/them!)

 

Well, as long as it's what you want...

 

It seems like a lot of people are against that here but from what I've read, it's usually the people that don't live together that don't end up making it...For various reasons...

 

Anyways, if you're ok with that, then it's cool...I'm glad we're doing it this way (although it's been filed and only a matter of time)...I wonder if we would have made it the other way...

 

Good luck in the road you have chosen...

 

GEL

[phoenixgirl]

Well, as long as it's what you want...

 

It seems like a lot of people are against that here but from what I've read, it's usually the people that don't live together that don't end up making it...For various reasons...

 

Anyways, if you're ok with that, then it's cool...I'm glad we're doing it this way (although it's been filed and only a matter of time)...I wonder if we would have made it the other way...

 

Good luck in the road you have chosen...

 

GEL

 

Well, of course on a VISCERAL level it's not what I want - I want to live with him, be with him all the time, live happily ever after. But living together now would not be the smart thing to do. They're not currently in the middle of a divorce or even talking about one, as far as I know; us living together would be even more of a slap in the face to her. And when/if she does file for divorce, I want to stay as far out of the proceedings as possible.

 

And as mentioned before, I don't think he really knows right now what he really wants. I would go so far as to say that he loves us both, albeit on different levels, plus he has all the guilt of having "abandoned" her. He has a lot to deal with and living with me wouldn't give him any sense of clarity. The last thing I want is for him to end up resenting me, to feel like I forced him to choose me.

 

Living together works for some, but I know it wouldn't for us.

[nadiaj2727]

It seems like a lot of people are against that here but from what I've read, it's usually the people that don't live together that don't end up making it...For various reasons...

 

GEL

 

It seems to me like when MM leaves W and moves in with OW, he is jumping from a bad situation into something else, and in a way using OW as a landing pad. Sure, this situation works for awhile, more than if MM had to be on his own and really realize his life's situation and think about what went wrong in his marriage, what he wants out of life next, etc. Because sometimes the problem is MM feels dissatisfied with his marriage (or himself, although he doesn't see it that way) but he doesn't really know what he wants. Along comes OW and she seems like an escape or a savior, but MM will often only leave if he has a guarantee that OW is going to be there for him (hence, living with her) because MM is afraid of being alone and not having someone there for him like he's used to (W).

 

But eventually MM is going to start thinking about what he really wants and he might still be dissatisfied with himself and taking it out on everyone else. He might associate OW with that confusing and rough time in his life and he might decide he wants to move on and be "free". Or he might be bitter that she "made" him or "helped" him divorce his wife (even if she didn't). So from what I've read and heard from my therapists about *similar* situations (not yours necessarily GEL), yes it's easier for MM to leave when OW wants him to move in with her, but often they go back or the relationship doesn't end up working because MM discovers he wants to be single, etc. Moving in with OW often works because MM wants a landing pad. Once he's landed, he's ready to spring up and go forward and might not necessarily want OW along with him. Or he's just the type of person that's never satisfied no matter who he's with, so the cycle continues.

 

I'm not saying that's your situation, I hope everything works out well for you. Of course there are situations in which OW and MM get married or otherwise are happy together for a very long time or forever. I was just explaining why I agree that it seems to temporarily work out for MM and OW when MM moves in with OW, but that doesn't necessarily mean it permanently works out well for them. But I think Phoenix is going about it the right way because she doesn't want to be a landing pad for MM to jump out of his messy situation and into her life. She wants to know that he's done the hard work on his own -- he's thought about what he really wants and he is getting divorced with or without her, so that he can't later turn around and blame it on her. And he can stand on his own two feet without using her as a crush. But GEL I do believe your situation is working out great and I hope it continues to do so.

Edited March 24, 2008 by nadiaj2727

[nadiaj2727]

But living together now would not be the smart thing to do.

 

... I don't think he really knows right now what he really wants.

 

This is what I was trying to say, Phoenix. You seem to be thinking this through very well on a logical level. I agree that living with him is the worst thing you could for your relationship right now, given that he doesn't know what he wants. Let him live with her as a fence-sitter, not with you. You live your life on your own until he decides for sure that he wants to be there 100%. I'm glad you recognize his ambiguity; a lot of OWs are 100% sure that MM wants them and only them... despite the fact that he's still married, still living with his W, still making excuses, etc. Good for you, you're a smartie. I hope he gets his act together and realizes he needs to commit to you all or nothing. You sound like a great catch. But in the meantime, try to take care of yourself becuase he obviously has too much going on in his confused head to be able to give you everything you deserve... so don't give him anything until/ unless he's able to do that. (hug)