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If MM and W are NC, what do you think that means?


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My sMM and his W have been no contact now for over 2 mths. I guess I should say limited contact as they have 2 teenagers and financial matters that are addressed thru email and texting. They are not and will not see each other face to face.

 

Do you think this is a good sign for me as the OW?? That possibly they really could be heading for divorce??? or is this something that usually just ends in a reconciliation.

 

I am NC with sMM as well. He is taking time to himself.

 

Thoughts??

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LucreziaBorgia

How do you know that he and his wife are in NC? Didn't MM request NC with you?

 

If he is on limited contact with his W, it could be part of a 'Plan B' thing for marriage building done by his W, and could possibly end in reconciliation if MM decides he wants his marriage and family back.

 

There really is no way of telling. It could end up either way. He could go back to his marriage, he could end it and end things with you too (exit affair), or he could end up with you one day (though I don't think its likely since he was the one who asked you for NC even though he understood that it could mean losing you).

 

Are you prepared for MM to walk away?

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It could be that they're headed for divorce. They may have grown apart enough that this is just a natural "next step" for the both of them Or it could be that he'll start to miss her and the "normality" of having a wife, family, etc...and end up going back. It could also be that he's found a 3rd person to spend his time with. After 3+ years on this and other boards, I've seen ONE case where the "time for himself" actually turned out to be that.

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i know because are contact has been limited contact as well, even though it was intended to be NC.

 

I don't think I am an exit affair, as our A lasted 4 years and if it was an exit affair why not get out on DDay #1 instead of #12???

 

His W wanted to file for divorce the day after the most recent DDay... her counselor talked her into waiting til emotions calmed down, so she didnt file yet but refuses to see her H.

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I think that part of the question may have been "how do you know that they're (MM and BW) in NC if YOU are in NC with MM as well?"?

 

If you're not in contact with him...how do you know if he's in contact with his wife or not?

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Owl- I am 100% confident there is no #3. That was my huge fear that we would go NC and he would find someone else. He is determined to not carry on any A until M is declared over. He has told me time and again he can not make any promises to anyone... not me, not his W, not his 2 children because he just doesnt know where this is headed. However, our last convo he did tell me the one promise he could make me is that if this ends in divorce, I will be the first person with the opportunity to date him and the only person he would even consider at this point. He says if I will not consider him, then he will have to be alone for while.. but other W are not on his mind.

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I know because although are intention is NC, we have had limited contact and lengthy conversations when NC was broken. The last was just a couple days ago.

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LucreziaBorgia

I don't think I am an exit affair, as our A lasted 4 years and if it was an exit affair why not get out on DDay #1 instead of #12???

 

His W wanted to file for divorce the day after the most recent DDay... her counselor talked her into waiting til emotions calmed down, so she didnt file yet but refuses to see her H.

 

Exit affairs don't have anything to do with Ddays really. You won't know if its an exit affair until he is divorced and then tells you that he wants to date other people, but that he hopes you can be 'friends'.

 

Perhaps she refuses to see him until she is certain you are out of the picture. It sounds like he is trying to convince her that you are by telling you that he wants NC with you. Honestly, it sounds like he is trying to placate you both, with the odds leaning toward staying married if his W will allow it.

 

Owl brought up something I had entirely forgotten. OOW. Yes indeed. Often the "I need time to figure out what to do" followed by initiating NC with OW = OOW.

 

No telling really.

 

You'll have to wait it out, I guess.

 

Do you have a plan for your life should MM let you down?

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Fair enough. I'm not sure what MY level of confidence would be in his statements, given the lies to his wife up to this point. To ME...it would be just as simple to lie to the OW as it was to lie to his BW.

 

I can understand why you would feel differently. I'm also not there, in the mix of it, so to speak.

 

I only suggested it as a possibility that I've seen played out in similar situations in the past. Those are the three possible outcomes that I see at this point.

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I know because although are intention is NC, we have had limited contact and lengthy conversations when NC was broken. The last was just a couple days ago.

 

So you...just like with his wife...are still in limited contact, not NO contact. ANY contact simply 'resets the clock'...and postpones any potential change or outcome.

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whichwayisup

If you two are in NC mode more or less, he isn't going to discuss or tell you if he and his wife have spoken. Because of their kids obviously they have to talk either by phone or email/IM, again, so if something comes up in conversation referring to their marriage, he isn't going to tell you about it.

 

His W wanted to file for divorce the day after the most recent DDay... her counselor talked her into waiting til emotions calmed down, so she didnt file yet but refuses to see her H.

 

Anything can happen. They both are seeking counseling and I'm sure sooner or later they might go to marriage counselling together. Because of their kids, they might want to try to make work.

 

Question is, how long do you intend on waiting?

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Why not go completely NC? Let him come and see you with the divorce papers signed then you'll talk. Not a good idea? Good idea? Just don't wait around...

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i really am not waiting around, but I can't say that hope still isnt there. I can't help that at this point. Even though our NC has been broken we have definitely taken huge steps that we have never taken before in the NC arena.

 

I have decided to take this time to improve myself. I have seeked counseling, revisited my workout regimen, am planning on revamping my look and wardrobe.. for fun :). I have spent time with some family and friends that I had previously pushed aside to do whatever, whenever with MM. I am definitely taking steps.

 

This post has to due with the fact that I still do have hope, and despite my best efforts to move forward... this hope and wondering isnt something that will just go away quickly.

 

My question has to do more with wondering what the W is thinking, than what MM is thinking. He hasnt sugarcoated things for me, he hasnt made any huge promises, he has spoken with alot of honesty and is trying to figure this out the "right" way. I know what he is somewhat thinking, i have no idea what she is thinking.

 

I do realize me doing all this questioning is pointless because every situation is different and I could guess around all day on what will happen but I will never really know until it actually does.

 

I guess I was just wondering what some of you have experienced in similiar situations, that's all.

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I guess I was just wondering what some of you have experienced in similiar situations, that's all.

 

You're right about situations being different from one another. Mine was different in that they were both unhappy before I came into the picture. The wasn't any NC implement between them as they were still together but one day, they both signed the papers and they were done.

 

I was with him for a few months before he signed the paper. I hope the MM you're seeing is divorcing his W for the right reasons - that is if he is divorcing her.

 

It's a good thing that you have your own life - doing the things you love doing etc. At least if things don't go the way you want it to - you didn't forget yourself, you know what I mean?

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Finding,

If you'll indulge me...I wish you'd read some of my previous posts...esp the last one to Hope4us in her thread as I think you'd maybe benefit from the last post to her from me.

 

You seem to be waffling...wanting what you believe to be a true love but ready to move on if need be...Finding your life shouldn't have this much drama.

 

I wanted to reply to you in your thread about that book, b/c it hit home with me and my exH....yes, I absolutlely beleive there are guys out there that are going to eventually get the "guilts" and not want to be with the person that is a reminder of all the pain from the divorce they went through...not only my exH (and to be honest his morals are obviously no where in sight so if you take someone that has even a shred more of a conscience...hopefully you see where I'm going with that) I've heard it from other guys that I've either dated or been friends with...a large majority are not going to stay with someone that reminds them of pain.

 

Anyway I'm starting to write another book..and I really have to study for a big exam tomorrow, but I'd really like you to get to that place where you are strong enough to walk away and know you deserve better and know you WILL get someone even better...better than what you "think" you have now...it's hard to believe...but it's really true....a true and good and amazing love will not tear you up inside of wondering why this...and what about that....it just will ..."BE" and you'll have an aha moment and seriously be filled with a calming peace that you'll think...why on earth did I convince myself that I need drama in my life to think that's how things should be and that makes life exciting? It's so much better w/o it...trust me...but it is hard to explain correctly.

 

You're questioning things and that's a really hopeful sign that you are almost out of this cloud that you've been under...fight the lure...it may be hard but soooo worth it.

 

keep working on you and finding yourself and settle for nothing less than what you know you want in someone....you need this time to be alone and come back even stronger and better and more ready for that love when it does walk into your life....it may be hard to believe but please have faith...it is out there....my thoughts are with you..take care

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thanks for the comments, Serenity.

 

I don't want drama in my life, but I do want the man that just happens to be in the middle of it all. :/ This creates quite a conflict of interest which I am sure is what alot of this whole emotional rollercoaster is all about.

 

I consider myself a very intelligent person. So I read these books and really understand what they are talking about. But then, emotions overwhelm me for some reason, and despite what I've read and think I understand... I still wonder and hope... wish and dream.

 

This is just so freakin' hard!!!!! UGH.

 

I want to truly believe that that one special man will come into my life like you say, but it is just so hard to believe. I have been on the dating seen with horrible luck prior to MM... and now I feel like my chances are even worse considering all that I have gone thru.

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Ok, I will have to contribute to this one... I am the W and my stbxH and I have NC since August. We have spoken few times because we have financial matters and 2 kids. I blocked my phone (he's in prison), dont write, visit, read his letters. NOTHING! I asked him to serve me and he said NEVER... mind you, he has a "GF". So it could mean nothing that they have NC. On my part... I will NEVER take that dirtbag back- not sure if what is going to happen to him when he comes home and there is no "home". Homeless, broke and without a family. He'll may try to ask for his life back.

 

His W may be the one that is not giving in to having NC with him.

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Oh I have no doubt she is the one with the strict NC between both of them. He has wanted to go to some of his daughters school events, and she has said no becuase she (the W) had to be there because she was helping with the events. I feel sorry for the daughter in those instances. His W does not want to see him. I think he would be willing to at least hear what she is thinking. But she is not ready to talk about anything or see him yet.

 

So Mimi- if you never want your H back, why arent you filing for divorce? Just curious......

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Humm.. I have to say that it doesn't look good for you..

 

I think she doesn't want to see him but he would like her back like before.

 

If you even doubt about your 'future' with him.. methink it's not looking good... otherwise you wouldn't even ask the question.

 

So from what I read here, I don't think he's that much in love with you.. sorry.. but that's the feeling I get.

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Lizzie-

I am just trying to be realistic and look at it from all angles. But i have to say, i 100% know he is in love with me. He is a good guy though, as funny as it may sound, he truly does good in the world and has a conscience like you wouldnt believe..we feel in love and love can conquer even the best morals, certainly did in my case. I think him willing to talk to his W is him willing to be sure he has done all he could before he calls his marriage done and over. It has nothing to do with how much he loves me, however.

 

I have witnessed so many things that have shown his love. I will never forget awhile back when we split do to a DDay and he was being pretty strongwilled and i was thinking it could really be it. Well, we were each at the same big local event and he saw me with another guy. I was just hanging out with the guy, he wasn't a new boyfriend or even a date, but i did hangout with him and his friends that night- had to distract myself somehow!! MM was way uncomfortable at the event though we never talked. The next day he heard rumors about me and that guy, that we had done things. They werent true but of course he thought they were. He yelled at me, argued with me, said he never wanted to see my face (i told him over and over it didnt matter what he thought of me cause we werent together, he left me right???) Well, when emotions cleared, he calmed down, admitted he had never hurt so much in his entire life, his heart had been ripped in two... we slowly got back together as we both knew that is what we wanted. I will never ever in my entire life forget the first time I held him in my arms after that event. He was shaking like nothing I had ever seen before, started crying uncontrollably, he was completely vulnerable... all i could feel was the 100% love this man had for me and how scared he had been of losing me.

 

Of course, when it all gets muddyed up with family issues, doing the right thing issues... etc etc etc it is easy to supress these things for awhile. He is a good suppressor. But i have no doubt, even if he goes back to his wife, the hurt of losing me will cut deep.

 

Is this horrible?? I dont want to hurt the guy... but when thinking of moving on, I have often dreamed about what it would be like if i were forced to move on, he went back to his M, fate finally worked in my favor and I find the available man that loves me and can commit to me... we get engaged and one day xMM opens the local paper to see our engagement annoucement... talk about cutting like a knife... ha. Honestly though, i dont want to hurt him, but when i hurt so bad I cant help but think and dream of these things. :/

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I am not saying that he doesn't love you at all... all I'm saying is that if he was so sure about his love for you.. he wouldn't even try to get her back.. she's the one who doesn't want him .. right? I am also trying to be realistic... lol

 

It is easy for a woman/man head over heels in love with a man to read a lot more than what there is really... sometimes we see signs of love when in fact, it's only their vulnerability showing. (ex.. when he cries and shake uncontrollably.. ha-hem, he could be a good comedian). It seems to me that he wants his W and his OW, be careful. You might read too much in his manupulative behaviour.

 

I feel you are living this 'affair' like a Harlequin love story... but that's just a feeling I have.. I don't know how old you are but you sound very young.

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oh honey- this is no romance novel... i am not that naive!!!! It is not as simple as me or her..... he has children, businesses, other family.. lots of people that would be impacted... there is a huge picture to consider. Like many MM in these situations, the idea of being a failure is something that I also thinks looms over them. If it were as simple as me or her, no other consequences, I 100% know where he would be. It's just not that simple, but again that doesnt mean he doesnt love me and that doesnt mean his vulnerability wasnt real.

 

I guess I can see where you would pull your opinions from, but you simply can't have a real opinion without seeing the whole situation.

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Oh I have no doubt she is the one with the strict NC between both of them. He has wanted to go to some of his daughters school events, and she has said no becuase she (the W) had to be there because she was helping with the events. I feel sorry for the daughter in those instances. His W does not want to see him. I think he would be willing to at least hear what she is thinking. But she is not ready to talk about anything or see him yet.

 

So Mimi- if you never want your H back, why arent you filing for divorce? Just curious......

 

He is in jail so the process gets more complicated as to what the grounds for divorce can be etc... basically it is down to what works best for me in a legal standpoint.

SO I have 3 choices...

1. File for divorce on grounds of abandoment- which in the state of NY it is after a year of leaving the home. (Made a year 3/14)

2. File for adultery- a misdemeanor in the state of NY and to which I have all the proof (pictures, bills, letters, a restraining order against his OW)

If I file after he is released, he violates his parole terms and could be sent back to prison for another 3yrs. (Depending on my mood... this sounds like a "GET EVEN" choice :lmao: jk).

3. Not file at all and let him serve me.

 

There is a lot at stake, we own 3 businesses and a home so it gets complicated if he doesn't want to comply with my terms. The same way that he will come home and not have a job, be homeless and broke and he can go after me for alimony. Complicated! I gotta do what's best for my kids and for me, I worked and put more than half at times... for him to run off with OW and take my ish, NO WAY!!!! I am not materialistic but he destroyed my home, family, dreams and emotionally sent me flying. I am lucky to be alive and have friends and family that have been pillars to a broken structure.

 

This goes out to the OP... and please dont take it all personal and I am not trying to disrespect anyone as this place has taught me that not all are the same. Some situations are the "ish happens and you cant help who you fall in love with" or "too late to let go". In between all of that there may be a good person that dedicated her/his life to that MM/MW and that one day exchanged vows and perhaps gave up part of his/her own being to be in that marriage, just to one day wake up and all be stolen away by someone else- just because. I am sure that as the OW/OM you too have suffer and given up a lot, but you had more of a choice than a BS spouse ever stood a chance of having.

 

It is very painful and self-destructive to see someone laugh at how they now have what was your most valuable asset (not a home, car, $, business) but what completed your home. A W/H is not always the fat, lazy, spycho, boring, unattractive person these MM/MW made them to be... Some of us are just collateral damage.

 

Not ever wanting him back is right! I dont deserve someone that his words dont even mean anything to himself. No matter how much my heart still loves him, my integrity and self-respect will never allow me to get back with him, not even if the holy spirit manifests on him. HELL NAH!

I rather kill all the love that I have than to let the love that I have for him kill me.

 

Again, I am speaking from my own experience and situation.

I am sure that some here will say "Beat it" and "get over it".

I guess it makes them feel better that perhaps they may have been the possible cause of someone feeling the same way I do.

 

Ok, I am getting teary- eyed just reviving the... I can't type about this anymore.:(

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oh honey- this is no romance novel... i am not that naive!!!! It is not as simple as me or her..... he has children, businesses, other family.. lots of people that would be impacted... there is a huge picture to consider. Like many MM in these situations, the idea of being a failure is something that I also thinks looms over them. If it were as simple as me or her, no other consequences, I 100% know where he would be. It's just not that simple, but again that doesnt mean he doesnt love me and that doesnt mean his vulnerability wasnt real.

 

I guess I can see where you would pull your opinions from, but you simply can't have a real opinion without seeing the whole situation.

 

I agree.. we don't know the whole situation, I only post what I feel from what I read.

 

I wish you luck! :)

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oh honey- this is no romance novel... i am not that naive!!!! It is not as simple as me or her..... he has children, businesses, other family.. lots of people that would be impacted... there is a huge picture to consider. Like many MM in these situations, the idea of being a failure is something that I also thinks looms over them. If it were as simple as me or her, no other consequences, I 100% know where he would be. It's just not that simple, but again that doesnt mean he doesnt love me and that doesnt mean his vulnerability wasnt real.

 

I guess I can see where you would pull your opinions from, but you simply can't have a real opinion without seeing the whole situation.

 

For once I agree with Lizzie, I think your view on the situation is a little naive. Doing the right thing is not having an affair with you in the first place. He should have done the right thing by his wife and kids and gotten a divorce if he was unhappy. And he should have done the right thing by you in giving you all of himself. Instead he fence sits and he waffles and he cake eats. How is this being a good man? How is love conquering morals here? I just don't understand your take on this. I think you should be angry at him for not choosing you. Lizzie and others here are right that his wife is the one who doesn't want to talk to him and yet he is STILL choosing to work on things with her over than being with you?? If he wanted to divorce her and feel like a "good guy" about it, here's his chance... she doesn't even want to talk to him, why not file? Instead he is trying to get her on his good side and trying to keep you on his good side... my advice is to just say good bye to him unless and until he is divorced. Only THEN will he be doing the right thing and you won't have to worry about "love" conquering morals... because he will finally be having some morals.

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