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When We're Married....


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Did the MM speak this way constantly? It would bug the hell out of me, especially since I had asked him not to, since it hurt too much to think about it. It was never, if I get divorced, I'd like to date you, it's always been - if I leave, we're getting married. Did anyone else go through this?

 

I'm divorced and have never really wanted to remarry until I met him. Then I knew that if he were to leave, I'd want to marry him, that he was the one. Even now he's still sending me emails about how much he thinks about how it will be WHEN we're together, how he wants to get married, how our kids will get along, how he can't wait, etc. He stops just short of promising me that it's going to happen. He's really forcing me into a corner here and I didn't want to have to be mean, but...he's really pushing it. It's only been a couple of days of NC so far. He keeps saying he knows what I'm doing and it's working but he didn't want to have to make an emotional decision like this out of desperation because I'm forcing him by NC. He says he'll keep telling me how things are going even if I don't respond because I know he really loves me and we were meant to be together.

 

My therapist only told me (after I let her read our email exchanges) to not act out of anger, that he is earnest about coming to a decision fairly soon, and that he really does love me and I should only do what I'm comfortable with.

 

Today has been soooooooo hard, to the point where I feel physically sick about not talking to him or seeing him.

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He would say things like (and still does...)...

 

-I'm not staying forever (with her)

-I have to leave for a while

-You'd make a great wife--any man would be Lucky to have you for a wife. you have a good job and are a good person

-what if you get pregnant (by him...)...(oopsies...):rolleyes:

-we get along well

 

You know, the same lines all guys give you when they want something. It's been in my experience that the MM was no different than the non-MM. They're all the same to me. So far the new guy has been okay ;) I told him to take it down a notch or two and live in the present, not the future.

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phoenixgirl

Yeah, I used to get the "when we're married" stuff too when he was sMM. We even talked about moving out of state and where, and what kind of house we would buy.

 

Before D-Day, I got lines like "If I'd only met you six years ago" and "This has never been only about sex" and "I've never felt this way about anyone." Now that he's thinking about moving back home (heck, he may have already since we're NC and I wouldn't know), I've only gotten the first two lines (well, before we were full NC, obviously).

 

So you see how the "lines" have progressed and evolved and then regressed over the course of two years. :/

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GreenEyedLady

I really hope that is not your real picture...If it is, please think about removing it...

 

This is the www and there are certain people out there who have made it their personal mission of outing OW in their community...

 

Always, always protect your identity as much as you can...

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I really hope that is not your real picture...If it is, please think about removing it...

 

This is the www and there are certain people out there who have made it their personal mission of outing OW in their community...

 

Always, always protect your identity as much as you can...

 

Thanks, I run a few forums and have never hidden myself from anyone - it's not a top secret in our circle, and she's not internet savvy at all, but it wouldn't matter to me if she did find out who I was.

 

btw, got a text from MM that he's going back to his rental house tonight (he rented a house when we first started seeing eachother) and I'm not sure what to make of it. No details about what happened yet.

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child_of_isis

Your therapist is out of line.

 

 

My therapist only told me (after I let her read our email exchanges) to not act out of anger, that he is earnest about coming to a decision fairly soon, and that he really does love me and I should only do what I'm comfortable with.

 

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LucreziaBorgia
Did anyone else go through this?

 

 

No, but I put more than a few people through it.

 

Its a tricky thing - a total head vs heart thing. If you put it through the 'head' filter, its a lie. Something you don't really intend to go through with. But, when you put it through the 'heart' filter, it is the truth - or at least it is in the heat of passion, or said when emotions are running high. Something you would like to see happen in your heart, but in your head you know it probably won't.

 

Affairs keep the MP in a constant state of artificial 'highs' of emotion. You only get a certain amount of time to give to your OW or OM, and when you have that time you want to make it your A game. You put all of your emotional effort into it and push aside reality for that time. This 'high' can make you say all sorts of things that your heart wants, but your head doesn't really intend to go through with: I'm going to leave my H/W, I want to start a family with you, we are going to have a future together - all stuff that you mean at the time you say it, but not in the sense that you mean to make it happen. I don't know what to call that sort of lie. You have outright lies, malicious lies, lies of omission - perhaps these can be called "lies of passion" or "truth according to the heart".

 

He stops just short of promising me that it's going to happen.

 

That's because he would have to catch his head up with his heart and sync them up, and he simply can't or won't do that, or at least not yet.

 

Will he ever? Only time will tell.

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whichwayisup
btw, got a text from MM that he's going back to his rental house tonight (he rented a house when we first started seeing eachother) and I'm not sure what to make of it. No details about what happened yet.

 

You two were supposed to be in NC mode and he's supposed to be on 'break' from his marriage to figure that out, right? Well, stay away from him. He is lonely and wants company which is why he contacted you.

 

The only REAL way to tell if this guy is into your or not is to STAY in NC mode for atleast 6 months. If he wants to really be with you, can't live without you, he'll divorce.

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Did the MM speak this way constantly? It would bug the hell out of me, especially since I had asked him not to, since it hurt too much to think about it. It was never, if I get divorced, I'd like to date you, it's always been - if I leave, we're getting married. Did anyone else go through this?

 

My MM didn't up until the point of making it happen. He'd have been history otherwise - not only because I'm not the marrying type and suggesting that I was would have gotten him deballed, but also because it's completely manipulative whether intentionally so or not! Asking someone to move into you imagined reality with you while maintaining them at a remove IRL is little more than downgrading them to the status of "imaginary friend" that even preschoolers outgrow soon enough.

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bentnotbroken
No, but I put more than a few people through it.

 

Its a tricky thing - a total head vs heart thing. If you put it through the 'head' filter, its a lie. Something you don't really intend to go through with. But, when you put it through the 'heart' filter, it is the truth - or at least it is in the heat of passion, or said when emotions are running high. Something you would like to see happen in your heart, but in your head you know it probably won't.

 

Affairs keep the MP in a constant state of artificial 'highs' of emotion. You only get a certain amount of time to give to your OW or OM, and when you have that time you want to make it your A game. You put all of your emotional effort into it and push aside reality for that time. This 'high' can make you say all sorts of things that your heart wants, but your head doesn't really intend to go through with: I'm going to leave my H/W, I want to start a family with you, we are going to have a future together - all stuff that you mean at the time you say it, but not in the sense that you mean to make it happen. I don't know what to call that sort of lie. You have outright lies, malicious lies, lies of omission - perhaps these can be called "lies of passion" or "truth according to the heart".

 

 

 

That's because he would have to catch his head up with his heart and sync them up, and he simply can't or won't do that, or at least not yet.

 

Will he ever? Only time will tell.

 

 

 

 

Wow, this is a great post. I agree with the A game part. Absolutely on the money.

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Your therapist is out of line.

 

Perhaps I should give it some more context - she says that acting out of anger won't make my decision 'stick'. That I have to come to a real conclusion, not just be mad at him because eventually that will disappear and I will be right back to square one when I calm down. She's fulling supporting my NC.

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No, but I put more than a few people through it.

 

Its a tricky thing - a total head vs heart thing. If you put it through the 'head' filter, its a lie. Something you don't really intend to go through with. But, when you put it through the 'heart' filter, it is the truth - or at least it is in the heat of passion, or said when emotions are running high. Something you would like to see happen in your heart, but in your head you know it probably won't.

 

Affairs keep the MP in a constant state of artificial 'highs' of emotion. You only get a certain amount of time to give to your OW or OM, and when you have that time you want to make it your A game. You put all of your emotional effort into it and push aside reality for that time. This 'high' can make you say all sorts of things that your heart wants, but your head doesn't really intend to go through with: I'm going to leave my H/W, I want to start a family with you, we are going to have a future together - all stuff that you mean at the time you say it, but not in the sense that you mean to make it happen. I don't know what to call that sort of lie. You have outright lies, malicious lies, lies of omission - perhaps these can be called "lies of passion" or "truth according to the heart".

 

 

 

That's because he would have to catch his head up with his heart and sync them up, and he simply can't or won't do that, or at least not yet.

 

Will he ever? Only time will tell.

 

Ok - thanks, this is good to know. I know some people can be sincere in the moment, but I've been realizing that's just what they are, moments, and not the whole reality.

 

Now he's saying that he's had it and thinks he'll be leaving for good in a month or two and I'm freaking out. Like...do I really want this? Should it have anything to do with me? What if I contact him too soon? What if he gives up because I'm NC? What if this is a ploy to get my attention?

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Now he's saying that he's had it and thinks he'll be leaving for good in a month or two and I'm freaking out. Like...do I really want this? Should it have anything to do with me? What if I contact him too soon? What if he gives up because I'm NC? What if this is a ploy to get my attention?

 

To be honest Heather, MM sounds like he's having an incredibly manipulative freak-out.

 

Good for you for keeping NC. Eventually his actions will prove all.

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You two were supposed to be in NC mode and he's supposed to be on 'break' from his marriage to figure that out, right? Well, stay away from him. He is lonely and wants company which is why he contacted you.

 

The only REAL way to tell if this guy is into your or not is to STAY in NC mode for atleast 6 months. If he wants to really be with you, can't live without you, he'll divorce.

 

I don't want him to divorce because 'he can't live without me'. They had problems waaaay before I entered the picture. I'm pretty sure he's had it, he hates sleeping in that rental but the message he left last night - he seemed very clear and angry (which is rare for him) about how long he has let his M drag out, etc. Has nothing to do with me (that part at least), and I'd like to keep it that way. I didn't know he still had the rental, he says there's alot going on that I don't know about and will continue to figure things out on his own.

 

I'm trying to keep it together - I have urges to be there for him.

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To be honest Heather, MM sounds like he's having an incredibly manipulative freak-out.

 

Good for you for keeping NC. Eventually his actions will prove all.

 

Hmmmm...I've seen his freak outs...this was more calm and rational. He has a lot to be angry about but always felt too guilty to express it. I'm proud of him for letting himself be angry and to get some space to think things through.

 

But we'll see how the day goes - he could be right back there tomorrow.

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I don't want him to divorce because 'he can't live without me'. They had problems waaaay before I entered the picture. I'm pretty sure he's had it, he hates sleeping in that rental but the message he left last night - he seemed very clear and angry (which is rare for him) about how long he has let his M drag out, etc. Has nothing to do with me (that part at least), and I'd like to keep it that way. I didn't know he still had the rental, he says there's alot going on that I don't know about and will continue to figure things out on his own.

 

I'm trying to keep it together - I have urges to be there for him.

 

Can you change your number and block his emails? He doesn't understand that you are in the NC mode??!! How is he supposed to clear out his head and think what he wants to do in regards to his marriage and you?

Seem's like he's keeping you in the loop just because he needs to download his issues on someone- and since you're part of them.

He doesn't have a guy friend that he can reach out to? wtf! :rolleyes:

By the time that he decides and if he does chooses to be with you, you no longer going to want to deal with the nonsense. LOL! Jeez!

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Hi Heather. Yes, xMM always talked about us getting married and it started to bug the heck out of me. For one thing, I thought it was unfair of him to even mention getting married (several times he said "I would marry you, would you marry me?" almost like a strange quasi-proposal) when he was still married to someone else. I think it was his way to keep me on a string by making promises he was in no position to deliver on. For another thing, all I wanted to do was have the chance to actually date him in real life -- not have to hide ourselves at an out-of-the-way restaurant, not have to be a "secret" -- not marry him right away!!

 

But then his talk about marriage got even stranger. After I broke it off with him but before I went completely NC, he said "I am promising you that I am getting divorced and that I am going to be with you, what else do you need? I am not even asking for any promises from you after I'm divorced, because I'm not sure you'd give me any." I was like, "ME give YOU promises? What kind of promises do you mean?" He said, "Well, you wouldn't promise to marry me" then, hearing my awkward pause, he added "...and that would be a good thing I guess." I was like, "Yeah, it would be... I'd like to see if we could have a normal relationship first. You can't just replace one wife with another, ha ha." I said it like I was kidding but I began to realize that's what he was looking to do.

 

I told him about this short story by John Updike called Pygmalion. Have you read it? The point of the story is that if a man tries to replace one wife in a boring or ho-hum marriage with a new, exciting woman, he will end up with another boring or ho-hum marriage.

 

I think some MM talk about marriage and stuff because they are afraid to leave the comfort and security of their life with their W -- no matter how bad off they say it is -- for something they recognize in the back of their minds might just be a "fling" with another girl who may soon tire of them. This is a lose-lose situation for OW because we are supposed to "prove" our love -- oh honey I want to marry you and I will never ever leave you -- WHILE MM is still married to someone else! This is obviously confusing and I believe damaging to us inside. And it is selfish of MM even if he doesn't know it conciously. I think every woman deserves a "normal" relationship that starts off with a date and progresses to getting to know each other, falling in love and being committed, and-- if both parties are the marrying type-- ends in engagement and marriage. In affairs, especially emotional affairs with lots of feelings involved, it usually starts out the opposite way. MM is trapped in his "loveless" marriage and wants to escape to a happy-ever-after-yet-always-exciting new life with OW. But he's too scared to let go of Mama Bear Wife no matter how horrible he says she is and take a RISK for OW. I don't think a lot of MM are prepared to start all over again in the dating world, even with OW there ready to start having a normal relationship with them. (Especially with older MM who have been married for a long time and feel that societal and status reasons kept them married for so long-- like your MM and my xMM).

 

So they think to themselves that they can leave if OW is really going to be there for them for good. Well, how do we really know that? We can love them with all our hearts but the dynamic of the relationship is sure to change *IF* MM ever leaves his W, and we're not fortune tellers, all we can do is say "I'm here for you, I want the chance to date you and see if it leads to something great like we have now, as an affair." But sometimes that isn't good enough for them and sometimes it is a moot point because their desire to marry us is just a fantasy they start talking about out loud, when they envision getting rid of the "horrible" W and putting the angelic OW in her place. Yet like the John Updike story, even if this becomes a reality, it may not work out because MM is just looking for a way out of his boredom and long-term relationship, he is not really wanting to divorce his W, be okay on his own as a person, and share his whole, happy self with OW.

 

Usually MM are too confused to think straight. If they really knew what they wanted and acted on it, they wouldn't be seeing another woman while they were still married. It's rare that a light bulb comes on and they start thinking things through, acting on their well thought-out plan, and doing the right thing. This is why I think it's a lose-lose situation for OW and the smartest thing a woman can do to avoid this kind of heart ache and confusion is to never get involved with an attached man in the first place, to realize that already attached yet willing to become involved with someone else = danger, run in the opposite direction! (Sometimes that takes learning the hard way through experience, but it's never too late -- through NC you are doing just that.)

 

And this is off topic a bit but I agree with child-of-isis about your therapist's "advice." It's strange that she's telling you that he loves you and he's earnest about coming to a decision "fairly soon." How does she know these thoughts inside his head?? Is she *his* therapist too? (I hope not because that would be quite a breach of confidentiality!) She is supposed to be focused on what *you're* thinking and going through, not him! And even if she is 100% right about him coming to a decision "fairly soon", what does that even mean and what are you supposed to be doing in the meantime?? NC honey, for your best interests. If she doesn't understand how continuing to have him in your life is giving you all of this turmoil, confusion, stress, etc., and she *encourages* you to keep waiting around on a married man (which is what it sounds like she's doing, more or less), I really wonder how she can be a good therapist. Have you expressed to her that *you* want to stay NC?

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I'd like to see if we could have a normal relationship first. You can't just replace one wife with another, ha ha." I said it like I was kidding but I began to realize that's what he was looking to do.

 

Yes, I've read about that happening before. It was pretty much the situation with xMM too -- he made a comment once along the lines of if he leaves his wife then we were getting married.

 

I don't think a lot of MM are prepared to start all over again in the dating world, even with OW there ready to start having a normal relationship with them. (Especially with older MM who have been married for a long time and feel that societal and status reasons kept them married for so long-- like your MM and my xMM).

 

I think age is a big factor. xMM was 47, much older than me as well. He talked about that quite a bit actually, how he would have to start all over again. To be honest I can relate... I already thought like that with a 6-year relationship I was miserable in, when I was in my early 20's... imagine being almost 50, married for 12 years and with a kid... pretty good initiative to go nowhere if you ask me...

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Yes, I've read about that happening before. It was pretty much the situation with xMM too -- he made a comment once along the lines of if he leaves his wife then we were getting married.

 

 

 

I think age is a big factor. xMM was 47, much older than me as well. He talked about that quite a bit actually, how he would have to start all over again. To be honest I can relate... I already thought like that with a 6-year relationship I was miserable in, when I was in my early 20's... imagine being almost 50, married for 12 years and with a kid... pretty good initiative to go nowhere if you ask me...

 

My xMM was 47 at the time, too. I can see how after living that long and being married to someone for 16 years, he is "afraid" to start over. But then why was he telling me he loved me and wanted to be with me? I guess it was a conditional kind of love... like, he wasn't willing to take a risk on me and see if we could make a real relationship work, but he wanted to think of me as his mattress, lying there waiting... and waiting... and waiting... for him to jump.

 

Well I was 26 and had a lifetime of living to do. I wasn't scared of starting over, in fact, I hadn't started anything but an affair full of dramatic chaos... I was ready to "start" a real relationship!

 

Ugh. Reading and thinking about all of this makes me so glad I"m no longer an OW. What is it about married men who cheat, they really are just cake eaters USUALLY. They want their comfortable life with mommy dearest wife AND they want their excitement and spice on the side. They SAY they "love" us but really they love the rush and how we make them feel. If they really loved us they wouldn't still be married to someone else. And if they really loved themselves, they wouldn't be UNHAPPILY married for so long and yet still afraid to leave their marriages. Happiness involves taking risks sometimes.

 

Yes I'm generalizing and I mean no offense to women whose MMs have left their wives or OW who are convinced that MM is leaving... although I know of only one case of active-on-LS OWs whose MM has already divorced his wife and that means she's not really an OW anymore LOL. So here I am just talking about the typical OW scenario where MM is still married but telling OW he wants to be with her, even marry her, etc. and I'm like ewwww that is really pathetic, how do we let ourselves be conned by these manipulative confused-themselves men?! We deserve way better.

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My xMM was 47 at the time, too. I can see how after living that long and being married to someone for 16 years, he is "afraid" to start over. But then why was he telling me he loved me and wanted to be with me?

 

Because it feels good... just like it gives the listener a high, it gives the sayer a high too... And both partake in this little fantasy-life high together.

 

I've always called it wordscaping... talking about how the way things "could" or "would" be, sometimes getting even down to really small details, essentially painting a picture of this fantasy life...

 

I think it's one of the cruelest things a MM can do. Lucky for me xMM wasn't really like that. But I have a friend who has been an OW for almost two years, and unfortunately the MM in her life is quite the verbal Monet...

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LucreziaBorgia

1. Now he's saying that he's had it and thinks he'll be leaving for good in a month or two and I'm freaking out.

 

2. Like...do I really want this? Should it have anything to do with me?

 

3. What if I contact him too soon?

 

4. What if he gives up because I'm NC?

 

5. What if this is a ploy to get my attention?

 

1. People who are panicked about the OW/OM leaving them before they are ready for OW/OM to leave them will say just about anything OW/OM wants to hear in order to stall for more time to figure out if they can follow through on the "lies of passion".

 

2. No, you don't want it this way. If he leaves his marriage before he is ready he will be a conflicted emotional mess. His heart will be bleeding, and you will end up his emotional tampon. If he does leave, and uses you as the excuse - guess what? You'll hear about it every time you do or say something that he doesn't like... "I left my marriage for you! I destroyed my life for you!" blah, blah, blah. Trust me. You really do want him to leave on his own, and not for any other reason than the fact that he wants to be divorced. If he does not really want to be divorced and if he ends up divorcing simply to keep you from leaving him, you will be the one who ends up paying the price for it.

 

3. Right now is not a good time to contact him at all. You might hear what you want to hear from him, but it won't do you any good if he is not at the point where he can back it up with real action. I don't think he is at that point, because he isn't really committed to divorcing - he will be committed to divorcing when he moves out permanently and signs the papers. Would he divorce right now without you in the picture? Probably not. Best to keep away from him until he gets his head and his heart more in line.

 

4. If he gives up because you are in NC, it won't be because you are in NC. It will be because he will see it as his opportunity to be let off this hook, and go back to being married. It will not be your fault, in other words - but instead his choice.

 

5. See point 1.

 

If he does leave and he shows up on your doorstep with signed and legal divorce papers, he needs to know that:

 

1. He may not live with you. He has to get his own place and the two of you establish a real dating relationship without living together. He obviously has a lot to learn about marriage, and he needs to learn that on his own and he will not be able to do that if you allow yourself to simply take up space in his dysfunctional idea of marriage by subbing you in for his W.

 

2. He gets counseling to get him through this divorce crisis (NEVER act as a therapist or counselor to a man going through a divorce - leave that to objective professionals who will keep the focus entirely on fixing his problems for the sake of fixing them), and the two of you are to go through it before you get married. He has to fix whatever is broken inside himself before he even thinks of anything approaching marital commitment.

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Lookingforward

I do recall this coming up once..something along the lines of "so, would you consider marrying me eventually?"

 

He knew I have only been married once, and that was purely because we had to be married for me to come here to be with my now exH. I never found it to be necessary prior to that and I'm not sure I ever want to do it again, given the trauma of D here.

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Hi Heather. Yes, xMM always talked about us getting married and it started to bug the heck out of me. For one thing, I thought it was unfair of him to even mention getting married (several times he said "I would marry you, would you marry me?" almost like a strange quasi-proposal) when he was still married to someone else. I think it was his way to keep me on a string by making promises he was in no position to deliver on. For another thing, all I wanted to do was have the chance to actually date him in real life -- not have to hide ourselves at an out-of-the-way restaurant, not have to be a "secret" -- not marry him right away!!

 

But then his talk about marriage got even stranger. After I broke it off with him but before I went completely NC, he said "I am promising you that I am getting divorced and that I am going to be with you, what else do you need? I am not even asking for any promises from you after I'm divorced, because I'm not sure you'd give me any." I was like, "ME give YOU promises? What kind of promises do you mean?" He said, "Well, you wouldn't promise to marry me" then, hearing my awkward pause, he added "...and that would be a good thing I guess." I was like, "Yeah, it would be... I'd like to see if we could have a normal relationship first. You can't just replace one wife with another, ha ha." I said it like I was kidding but I began to realize that's what he was looking to do.

 

I told him about this short story by John Updike called Pygmalion. Have you read it? The point of the story is that if a man tries to replace one wife in a boring or ho-hum marriage with a new, exciting woman, he will end up with another boring or ho-hum marriage.

 

I think some MM talk about marriage and stuff because they are afraid to leave the comfort and security of their life with their W -- no matter how bad off they say it is -- for something they recognize in the back of their minds might just be a "fling" with another girl who may soon tire of them. This is a lose-lose situation for OW because we are supposed to "prove" our love -- oh honey I want to marry you and I will never ever leave you -- WHILE MM is still married to someone else! This is obviously confusing and I believe damaging to us inside. And it is selfish of MM even if he doesn't know it conciously. I think every woman deserves a "normal" relationship that starts off with a date and progresses to getting to know each other, falling in love and being committed, and-- if both parties are the marrying type-- ends in engagement and marriage. In affairs, especially emotional affairs with lots of feelings involved, it usually starts out the opposite way. MM is trapped in his "loveless" marriage and wants to escape to a happy-ever-after-yet-always-exciting new life with OW. But he's too scared to let go of Mama Bear Wife no matter how horrible he says she is and take a RISK for OW. I don't think a lot of MM are prepared to start all over again in the dating world, even with OW there ready to start having a normal relationship with them. (Especially with older MM who have been married for a long time and feel that societal and status reasons kept them married for so long-- like your MM and my xMM).

 

So they think to themselves that they can leave if OW is really going to be there for them for good. Well, how do we really know that? We can love them with all our hearts but the dynamic of the relationship is sure to change *IF* MM ever leaves his W, and we're not fortune tellers, all we can do is say "I'm here for you, I want the chance to date you and see if it leads to something great like we have now, as an affair." But sometimes that isn't good enough for them and sometimes it is a moot point because their desire to marry us is just a fantasy they start talking about out loud, when they envision getting rid of the "horrible" W and putting the angelic OW in her place. Yet like the John Updike story, even if this becomes a reality, it may not work out because MM is just looking for a way out of his boredom and long-term relationship, he is not really wanting to divorce his W, be okay on his own as a person, and share his whole, happy self with OW.

 

Usually MM are too confused to think straight. If they really knew what they wanted and acted on it, they wouldn't be seeing another woman while they were still married. It's rare that a light bulb comes on and they start thinking things through, acting on their well thought-out plan, and doing the right thing. This is why I think it's a lose-lose situation for OW and the smartest thing a woman can do to avoid this kind of heart ache and confusion is to never get involved with an attached man in the first place, to realize that already attached yet willing to become involved with someone else = danger, run in the opposite direction! (Sometimes that takes learning the hard way through experience, but it's never too late -- through NC you are doing just that.)

 

And this is off topic a bit but I agree with child-of-isis about your therapist's "advice." It's strange that she's telling you that he loves you and he's earnest about coming to a decision "fairly soon." How does she know these thoughts inside his head?? Is she *his* therapist too? (I hope not because that would be quite a breach of confidentiality!) She is supposed to be focused on what *you're* thinking and going through, not him! And even if she is 100% right about him coming to a decision "fairly soon", what does that even mean and what are you supposed to be doing in the meantime?? NC honey, for your best interests. If she doesn't understand how continuing to have him in your life is giving you all of this turmoil, confusion, stress, etc., and she *encourages* you to keep waiting around on a married man (which is what it sounds like she's doing, more or less), I really wonder how she can be a good therapist. Have you expressed to her that *you* want to stay NC?

 

Great post, we've talked about this alot. Like he was worried that after he leaves I won't be interested in him as much - and what will have to talk about other than how much we want to be together, and for me, would he really want to jump right into another relationship so fast? wouldn't he need time to recover from his divorce? So we both agreed that we wouldn't be getting married so soon, that it would take at least 2 years to sort everything out and we'd need to 'date' to see where things went. I really hope he stays in his rental house and gets some time ALONE. I wouldn't be more happy if he was able to do that and get himself back to living true to his feelings.

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LucreziaBorgia
would he really want to jump right into another relationship so fast?

 

The divorce will leave him with a huge gaping hole in his heart and in his life. The first thing he will want to do is fill that with you, to try to banish as much pain as possible. Do not let him do this. That hole he will have has to fill up and heal over before you can even come into the picture in a serious way. Do not be filler for someone else's broken marriage. Make him see that you want a more stable foundation than a hole to build on. His heart has to be healed and healthy before you will consider living with him, much less marry him. He needs a counselor or a therapist to help him do that, not a girlfriend to fill those gaps. You can be there for him, but don't let him make you 'everything'.

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1. People who are panicked about the OW/OM leaving them before they are ready for OW/OM to leave them will say just about anything OW/OM wants to hear in order to stall for more time to figure out if they can follow through on the "lies of passion".

 

2. No, you don't want it this way. If he leaves his marriage before he is ready he will be a conflicted emotional mess. His heart will be bleeding, and you will end up his emotional tampon. If he does leave, and uses you as the excuse - guess what? You'll hear about it every time you do or say something that he doesn't like... "I left my marriage for you! I destroyed my life for you!" blah, blah, blah. Trust me. You really do want him to leave on his own, and not for any other reason than the fact that he wants to be divorced. If he does not really want to be divorced and if he ends up divorcing simply to keep you from leaving him, you will be the one who ends up paying the price for it.

 

3. Right now is not a good time to contact him at all. You might hear what you want to hear from him, but it won't do you any good if he is not at the point where he can back it up with real action. I don't think he is at that point, because he isn't really committed to divorcing - he will be committed to divorcing when he moves out permanently and signs the papers. Would he divorce right now without you in the picture? Probably not. Best to keep away from him until he gets his head and his heart more in line.

 

4. If he gives up because you are in NC, it won't be because you are in NC. It will be because he will see it as his opportunity to be let off this hook, and go back to being married. It will not be your fault, in other words - but instead his choice.

 

5. See point 1.

 

If he does leave and he shows up on your doorstep with signed and legal divorce papers, he needs to know that:

 

1. He may not live with you. He has to get his own place and the two of you establish a real dating relationship without living together. He obviously has a lot to learn about marriage, and he needs to learn that on his own and he will not be able to do that if you allow yourself to simply take up space in his dysfunctional idea of marriage by subbing you in for his W.

 

2. He gets counseling to get him through this divorce crisis (NEVER act as a therapist or counselor to a man going through a divorce - leave that to objective professionals who will keep the focus entirely on fixing his problems for the sake of fixing them), and the two of you are to go through it before you get married. He has to fix whatever is broken inside himself before he even thinks of anything approaching marital commitment.

 

Emotional tampon - you made me laugh. But great points. I've already told him all of the above and he knows it. He'd never move in with me, blech. I'm not that kinda girl. I like sleeping square in the middle of my huge bed and like things where I left them. If anything, after a couple of years we'd get a place together and do it the old fashioned way of getting married first, etc. I told him I could no longer be involved because if he did leave I didn't want to hear in arguments later down the road "after all I've done for you" or for him to look over at me in the middle of the night feeling all guilty wondering if it were worth it. Totally not fair to me.

 

He's already in counseling, going on three years, which I believe is what has prompted his change in perspectives on his life and M. I otherwise might have had nothing to do with him if he weren't.

 

He hasn't been giving me any details of why he slept out last night or anything, it's like he's just letting me know where things are without trying to get me to believe that he's doing this for me, I don't think he is - and I can spot a manipulation tactic from a mile away (xH was a master at it). I do think the NC has let him face reality though, it just happened alot faster than I thought.

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