New girl in town, hlp!

[silverspoon]

My situation is a bit different, but I now find myself in the position of the OW and I'm not sure where to proceed from here. I'm hoping someone with some insight can help me out. This is a bit long, so please bear with me:

 

I met my MM a few years back, we were co-workers. I knew he had a W and didn't look twice at him. We hardly even talked to each other unless it was work related. A year or so later, we are casually talking to each other and he mentions that he and his wife have separated (when we had this convo he was 6 months into the separation; she left him, took their 2 young children and left the state).

 

About a month or two later he asks me out on a date. I thought he was nice, and I knew he was separated, so I agreed. The date goes well and we start seeing each other regularly, eventually we are MADLY in love. I've never been so in love with anyone in my entire LIFE. He is everything I want in a mate and more. We get along famously, and the only cloud over our happiness is his pending divorce, and the fact that he dearly misses his children. A few months into our relationship, his W gets wind of him seeing someone else (me), and becomes jealous. She cuts off his contact with his children, begins calling his job and telling them he's a deadbeat (by this point we weren't working together anymore), and also begins sending me threatening text messages. Mind you she was perfectly ok with their separation until she realized he had moved on with me.

 

FFwd a year into our relationship, we are still going strong, his divorce and custody issues are steadily proceeding, and we are as happy as 2 pigs in sh*t. We decide to move in together (his urging). By this time the W has allowed him to re-establish contact with the kids, and he visits them out of state on a monthly basis or so. After one of his visits, he comes home to our house to tell me (in tears) that he can't watch his daughter break down at the sight of him leaving anymore. He said his W proposed that they reconcile solely for the purpose of giving the kids a 2 parent home, and he agreed. He said although he was completely in love with me, that she (the W) had forced him to choose between the kids and me, and he chose the kids. I was completely devastated, because I knew that the W had been wanting this ever since she figured out that we were together, and she was using her children to keep him there like she had in the past (they initially married because she was pregnant). I swallowed my pride, took my broken heart and moved out of our house, and eventually out of the state. After a number of really bitter, ugly exchanges, I cut off all contact with him. Eventually the W returned and moved into "OUR" house with their kids

 

About 9 months later, he re-establishes contact with me and we forgive each other, and we become friendly. A few months into our newfound "friendship", he tells me that he "screwed things up" with me and thinks he wants to try again. He said that he's realized in the past year that he should have incorporated me into his children's lives instead of letting someone make him choose and hold him hostage. I never lost love for this man, so I believe him. He kept telling me he wanted to see me, to see if what we had was still there. I wanted to see him too, and we recently made plans to meet for a weekend alone in May.

 

I'm so excited, but at the same time I'm terrified. I'm not sure if I'm going there to start an affair or to get closure on what we once had. I just don't know whats going to happen, I just know I love him so much and want to see him, but everything else is up in the air. I feel horrible because he is still married, and his W doesn't know we've re-established contact, but I can't pass up the chance to see if our love is still intact.

 

Suggestions, comments, advice, ANYTHING?! It would be greatly appreciated.

[JMC]

Good luck to you sweetie....

 

I do wish you luck...I've gone thru a little of what you have and I can sympathize. I haven't proceeded as far as you have though, so I don't have any advice. Just empathy.

Edited March 6, 2008 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[optimistic]

Silverspoon,

I feel for you. You’re in a tough position. I’m in the throes of ending a 3.5+yr A with a MM that I thought was the love of my life. Even if I had known then what I know now, it’s hard to say if I would’ve acted differently, though I’d like to think I would have chosen a different path. Finding that kind of love feels like a once in a life time occurrence. Still, the emotional rollercoaster of an A is overwhelming and all consuming. Be cautions, as interacting with him opens you up to an incredibly vulnerable world. I promise you it won’t feel devastating at first though. Initially you’ll be swept up by your connection, compatibility and the excitement of it all and filled with the kind of love and endorphins that make you keep going back for more. Based on your story, and your history, I’m certain this will be the case. It’s totally human to cherish and hold on to what might have been then hope to reestablish it or act on the opportunity to do so. I was a member of a different support site for the past 3 months and I’ve read countless similar stories.

 

You know yourself best. Be completely honest with yourself as to whether or not you can handle giving your whole heart and emotional investment to him when he is unable to do the same (its a rare thing if his contribution to your R as a mm would even meet you half way). Also brace yourself for the possibility of the W finding out and the impact it’ll have on the children. Even if she doesn’t find out now, in the long run she’ll resent you forever, esp given your past with him (I have a family member who eventually married her MM, his children won’t speak to her because of the W –she was every bit as manipulative as your MM wife sounds like). If you're thinking long term with him and have faith that he is your soul mate and life partner let him know you still have feelings for him that you never doubted the connection and love you shared but that he needs to make a choice and resolve his own personal life before he brings you into it. From my own experience and everything I’ve read that is a difficult high road to take. We all give into our impulses, needs, wants… what ever you want to call it.

 

Which ever way you decide, make sure that your needs are being met. AND Make sure you prepare yourself for what might happen down the road, not considering the negative aspects won’t make it any less of a possibility. Remember, what’s best for us isn’t always what our hearts want and that is the inner battle many OW ultimately fight on a daily basis. Good luck in working though this. It’s great that you’re thinking it through and seeking advice. Whatever you decide I support you and in no way judge your decisions.

Edited March 5, 2008 by optimistic

[LucreziaBorgia]

I guess it depends on what you want out of this. He wants to stay married for his children. Do you want to continue being the OW? If you want to be the ONLY woman, then you will want to look at your meeting as closure and be prepared to walk away permanently away. If you are ok with being the OW, then try to find your happiness in that capacity. It won't be easy. I guess it largely depends on how well you can place limits on your love. Sometimes just being in love isn't enough if you want it all and aren't willing to settle for less.

[justice]

So what does it tell you that he has chosen his kids over you?

His family is important. If he wanted to divorce her and not reconcile there would have been other choices he could have made. She can't stop him from seeing his kids. He made a clear choice and it's up to you if you want to remain the bit on the side. Next thing you know you'll be finding out that he and his wife are sleeping together again and there goes another heart broken over promises being made and not kept. You can and should do better than this for yourself.

[silverspoon]

So what does it tell you that he has chosen his kids over you?

His family is important. If he wanted to divorce her and not reconcile there would have been other choices he could have made. She can't stop him from seeing his kids. He made a clear choice and it's up to you if you want to remain the bit on the side. Next thing you know you'll be finding out that he and his wife are sleeping together again and there goes another heart broken over promises being made and not kept. You can and should do better than this for yourself.

 

Just for clarification purposes, she can and has. On a number of occasions she has taken them out of the state, not told him where they were, and refused to let him speak to them. During our relationship, she kept this up for months at a time, and at one pont, when he did manage to secure a visit, he had to call the police to FORCE her to let him see them.

 

Him choosing his kids tells me he loves them. I don't fault him for that.

[Jess-Belle]

Echoing what justice has said, silverspoon, I think you're setting yourself up for a world of hurt. You've already been through the wringer as well. Your story sounds devastating.

 

The simple fact is when you get involved with someone who is in such a state of emotional turmoil, it's like walking into a hurricane. And I speak from the perspective of one of those people who used to leave a lot of others damaged because of the way I was. Getting involved with someone who doesn't have their head on straight and wants to lie and sneak around, is simply not a good idea.

 

Something tells me, though, that you need to discover this for yourself.

[OldEurope]

Cancel the trip. If you have any respect for yourself, cancel the trip. Because he sure has no respect for your true feelings--not now nor will he once you return.

 

He moved in with you and then moved out again, leaving your life upside down. After something like that, divorce or a very clear path thereto must be the only option for you to see him.

 

One senses that you are not willing to be "the bit on the side" and that you dream of a life with him, as anyone madly in love, as you state you are, would do. You want all or nothing and anything in between will leave you desperate and devastated.

 

There is some advice I give to OW contemplating run-away vacations with their beloved (OWoman you know you are the exception here ) ....Fast forward your thinking to the aftermath of the trip. Get past the beaches or shopping in the big city or wherever you may be. Think about coming home, the warm airport kisses, and the follow-up sweet emails and phone calls...And then think of the rock-bottom emptiness and uncertainty you are going to feel. You will think that you have "advanced" the situation, he might be thinking, wow, that was a nice get away with her and a much needed break for some lovemaking. That is all he might truly think.

 

Please do not interpret what I say here that he is just out to "use" you or that he does not have genuine feelings for you. I am saying that what he is offering is not enough. A vacation will temporarily gloss that over, but once that is over, all you will remain with is a reality as cold as this March weather over here.

 

xo

OE

Edited March 5, 2008 by OldEurope

[Owl]

Why did he and his wife seperate in the first place?

 

I'm curious what LED to that situation...was it due to actions on her part, or his? Did one of them cheat on the other? What prevented either of them from filing for divorce during the time they were seperated?

 

From the timeline you gave, it looks like he was seperated at least 20 months or so before she came back with the offer to reconcile...why was no action at all taken during that time to finalize the seperation into a divorce?

 

If she was preventing him from seeing the kids, why didn't he take legal action to put a stop to that? You mentioned that he called the cops once...why did he not contact a lawyer and get a court order preventing her from doing so again?

 

Here's the thing...at the end of the day, he COULD have fought her and divorced her and still had his kids. It appears that he didn't pursue that option.

 

The bottom line is exactly as its been stated...are you willing to remain as OW? Because it looks to me like that's exactly what he expects from you. There are other courses of action he could have taken (and still can)...have you pushed him to explore those instead of expecting you to be the OW?

[Je Ne Regrette Rien]

Guard your heart, Silverspoon.

 

Of course a W can affect the relationship that he has with his children. Of course he is going to miss seeing them everyday. Maybe she can't stop him seeing them, but she can certainly make them feel abandoned by him, rejected by him, second best in his life. I'm sure that was the catalyst for him returning.

 

However, after tasting his M again and knowing it's you he wants he should have clarity. He's been on this merry-go-round before so he knows when he needs to get off. He should have presented his return to your life as a divorce paper ready to be signed, a new life alone with plans to see his children - all of the mistakes he made last time solved ready to make amends for leaving you hanging last time.

 

Instead, he's offering a weekend in May?

 

Crumbs, that's all he has offered. Guard your heart and dont go round this merry-go-round with him again until he has full knowledge of what he wants in his future.

Edited March 5, 2008 by Je Ne Regrette Rien
spelling :-(

[optimistic]

I’m going to respectfully disagree with OldEurope, in that I bet it’s not a simple matter of a lack of respect for you on the mm part. He’s clearly unhappy with his current home life, and probably always was if he only got married bc she was pregnant. His wanting to test out your past and see if there are any feelings to rekindle are impulsive and selfish on his part (if he really considered the true consequences of his actions and could see the impact it would have on the people he cares for he wouldn't be able to go through with it, unfortunetly most mm can't think outside themselves in that capacity). I’ll agree with the vacation scenario, been there done that and never going to do it again! I also agree that he is definitely not offering enough and even if he truly wanted to offer more his home life will never allow it, though I’m sure his intentions are sincere (but not honorable). I realize and can see the mm’s conflict and turmoil, neither position is easy or fun to be in. No one wants to be the ‘bad guy’. In the end actions speak so much louder than words. If he still loves you and has feelings for you give him the opportunity to show it by not putting you in the position of OW and by making room for you to be an honest part of his life. As a former OW I can sympathies with your situation. Be brave and strong and true to yourself.

Edited March 5, 2008 by optimistic

[silverspoon]

I’m going to respectfully disagree with OldEurope, in that I bet it’s not a simple matter of a lack of respect for you on the mm part. He’s clearly unhappy with his current home life, and probably always was if he only got married bc she was pregnant. His wanting to test out your past and see if there are any feelings to rekindle are impulsive and selfish on his part (if he really considered the true consequences of his actions and could see the impact it would have on the people he cares for he wouldn't be able to go through with it, unfortunetly most mm can't think outside themselves in that capacity). I’ll agree with the vacation scenario, been there done that and never going to do it again! I also agree that he is definitely not offering enough and even if he truly wanted to offer more his home life will never allow it, though I’m sure his intentions are sincere (but not honorable). I realize and can see the mm’s conflict and turmoil, neither position is easy or fun to be in. No one wants to be the ‘bad guy’. In the end actions speak so much louder than words. If he still loves you and has feelings for you give him the opportunity to show it by not putting you in the position of OW and by making room for you to be an honest part of his life. As a former OW I can sympathies with your situation. Be brave and strong and true to yourself.

 

You never know who may cross you path and help you along your way...

 

I really needed to hear this, thanks. Thanks to everyone who offered advice, I'm taking it all to heart, and I welcome any other comments. You guys are really kind and understanding, for some reason I expected to be branded with a scarlett A for sharing my drama.

 

Looks like I have some decisions to make, luckily May is still a good ways away.

[optimistic]

Keep us posted. I wish you strenght and courage. I am certain it will be a difficult and heart wrenching process. I'm glad I could offer a perspective. Funny how life works, our paths wouldn't have crossed if the site I use to seek support from hadn't been shut down "indefinitely" by admin, otherwise I never would've started posting here. Take care of yourself.

[silverspoon]

If I recall correctly, someone here asked for an update so here goes. This whole saga is far from over, but there have been a few developments.

 

-I just told him that after being betrayed and hurt myself, that I couldn't play a part in doing that to someone else ( his wife). I also told him that if we are to be together permanently (like he says he wants) then he has to end the relationship he's in before starting a new one with me. Bottom line, I told him I was cancelling our vacation together, and the next move was his to make.

 

-He spoke with his wife about a week ago, and told her he no longer wanted to be with her, and that he wanted to figure out child support and custody issues amicably.

 

-Nothing else has happened since, because after he told her, he had to leave town on business. He did share with me that she was upset. And when she's upset she usually packs up the kids and moves them out of the state and cuts off his contact with them. He's afraid his kids won't be there when he gets back from his trip.

 

So are the days of my life. I'll keep you guys posted if anything new develops.

[silverspoon]

Why did he and his wife seperate in the first place?

 

From what I gather from her and him, they despise each other and fight a lot. She also refuses to hold a job and is not financially responsible.

 

I'm curious what LED to that situation...was it due to actions on her part, or his? Did one of them cheat on the other? What prevented either of them from filing for divorce during the time they were seperated?

 

They did file. Or he did, rather. And yes I saw the papers.

 

From the timeline you gave, it looks like he was seperated at least 20 months or so before she came back with the offer to reconcile...why was no action at all taken during that time to finalize the seperation into a divorce?

 

As I mentioned, that whole process along with mediation for custody had been started when they reconciled.

 

If she was preventing him from seeing the kids, why didn't he take legal action to put a stop to that? You mentioned that he called the cops once...why did he not contact a lawyer and get a court order preventing her from doing so again?

 

Done. At one point the judge had to threaten taking the kids away from her in order to get her to stop using the kids as pawns in the seperation/divorce.

 

Here's the thing...at the end of the day, he COULD have fought her and divorced her and still had his kids. It appears that he didn't pursue that option.

 

I'm not sure its always that black and white. But what you said is true.

 

The bottom line is exactly as its been stated...are you willing to remain as OW? Because it looks to me like that's exactly what he expects from you. There are other courses of action he could have taken (and still can)...have you pushed him to explore those instead of expecting you to be the OW?

 

Yes, see above

Edited March 19, 2008 by silverspoon

[Can'tGiveUp]

If I recall correctly, someone here asked for an update so here goes. This whole saga is far from over, but there have been a few developments.

 

-I just told him that after being betrayed and hurt myself, that I couldn't play a part in doing that to someone else ( his wife). I also told him that if we are to be together permanently (like he says he wants) then he has to end the relationship he's in before starting a new one with me. Bottom line, I told him I was cancelling our vacation together, and the next move was his to make.

 

-He spoke with his wife about a week ago, and told her he no longer wanted to be with her, and that he wanted to figure out child support and custody issues amicably.

 

-Nothing else has happened since, because after he told her, he had to leave town on business. He did share with me that she was upset. And when she's upset she usually packs up the kids and moves them out of the state and cuts off his contact with them. He's afraid his kids won't be there when he gets back from his trip.

 

So are the days of my life. I'll keep you guys posted if anything new develops.

 

Good move on your part. My initial story is somewhat similar - he was separated, and while we never moved in together, it was everything I might have dreamed of for a perfect relationship. When she found out, she asked to reconcile. He went back for the "family".

 

Fast forward to now and we are in our second round of an A. We were essentially NC for 18 mos...then had a 3 mos. A that ended over a year ago. I swore at that point I would never do it again. Then a year later I ate my words for what I thought would be a brief intense "fling" followed by total NC. Sort of a way to say goodbye with some finality.

 

That NC has never happened, and we are very much involved. Where will it go from here? I don't know. I certainly wasn't getting anywhere when we were apart. I dated and never met anyone remotely appropriate. I have concluded that I probably won't be able to find any who I can incorporate into my life right now for various reasons and that, for now, this situation is okay. Not perfect, but I can live with it. This could change at any point and I am prepared somewhat for when I have to walk away.

 

Good luck...

[Lookingforward]

It's amazing how some BS's only move to reconcile "for the family" AFTER someone new arrives on the scene.