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annabelle75

The guy I am currently dating was in an interesting MW and OM situation years ago. I nor he, is looking for any advice on the situation since it is no longer relevant, but I though I’d put the story out there. I think many people here, on all sides of an affair might be able to take something from it.

 

He became involved with a MW when he was in his early 20s. She had been married about 5 years and had a child. Her husband worked out of town and would be gone for weeks if not months at a time. Their affair lasted about 6 months before she became pregnant. At that time she confessed to the affair and filed for divorce from her husband. Once the divorce was final she married my BF. They had two children together over about four years. I try not to push too much for details because I know it is still a very sensitive subject for him, but the marriage eventually ended with her cheating on him and leaving him for another man. He admits he was not the perfect husband but with her history I doubt she would have remained faithful even if he had been.

 

While they were separated and waiting to finalize their divorce, she fell into a depression over her failing relationships with other men and killed herself leaving her 3 children without a mother. I find the whole story very sad. I think she lived her life very selfishly and hurt many people including her children while fulfilling her needs. When I hear people talk about WS being selfish, it is her story that immediately comes to mind.

 

Although I don’t agree that everyone that cheats will cheat again (cheaters never change), I think that she is an example of the kind that does. I know my BF regrets getting involved with a married woman in the first place, but I don’t think he or his kids deserve what she did to them. Since I will never know her, I really don’t know what was going on in her head and what her reasons where, but I don’t respect what she did as a mother. Her children deserved better.

 

I sometimes wonder if by having her first affair and justifying it for herself, she set herself up for a downward spiral that eventually led to her suicide. It is something I have thought about often and is one of the reasons I am so compassionate towards OM/OW and WSes now.

 

I’m sure OM/OW and BS alike can identify with this story. It’s a story that addresses a lot of fears that we all have when dealing with a cheating partner whether you are the BS or OM/OW. Although I spend a majority of my time here protecting and defending those involved in As, I do understand the selfishness of it all and how much hurt it causes everyone involved. As a BW and OW, I am glad my story has had a much happier ending.

 

Btw: I have decided to officially stop adding the disclaimer that I did not know that my MM was married whenever I refer to myself as the OW. Whether I knew or not doesn’t change the fact that as far as he and his wife were concerned I was the OW. I am no longer going to assume that calling myself an OW implies guilt. It is simply the reality of what I was.

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child_of_isis

Depression is a wicked thing. I would bet that it had nothing to do with her failing R's. Clinical depression can kill you.

 

I wouldn't be so quick to judge unless one has had clinical depression before. I have. So therefore I will not judge.

 

The pain is the most horrid I have ever experienced....

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annabelle75
Depression is a wicked thing. I would bet that it had nothing to do with her failing R's. Clinical depression can kill you.

 

I wouldn't be so quick to judge unless one has had clinical depression before. I have. So therefore I will not judge.

 

The pain is the most horrid I have ever experienced....

 

I actual have suffered from clinical depression. It was the worst thing I ever felt in my life. It happened while I was going through my divorce and at the same time my relationship with the MM ended. I wish that kind of pain on no one. When I reached a point that I was afraid I might hurt myself, I went to see my doctor and spent a few months on Zoloft. It saved my life. I did it because I knew my daughter deserved better than to have me leave her with that legacy. Even though I understand what his W felt, I don't think it excuses what she did. As a parent at some point you have to make a choice to live for them, or at least that is what I did.

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Je Ne Regrette Rien

I'm a constant spectator of clinical depression and the awful pain it causes to both the sufferer and the surrounding friends and family.

 

This is an interesting story, although incredibly tragic. I cant help but think the W had so many things missing inside herself (maybe thats what she was trying to replace with affairs) that she could no longer continue.

 

However, it is an incredibly selfish act, especially to her children. I dont think suicide can be attributed to one factor, always many factors - sometimes that overtake the person for a time and they cant deal with their emotions/guilt/feelings and without help, the terrible result is ending a life. I feel heartily sorry for her H (your guy, A75) as he must be dealing with a diverse range of emotions and turmoil - a legacy his Ex-W has left him.

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PoshPrincess

This is such a sad story.

 

This woman obviously led a troubled life and I would say that there was more to her suicide than the cheating/failed relationships.

 

I don't condemn anyone who commits suicide for being selfish. Yes, it is a selfish act in a way but these people are not in a stable frame of mind to consider the repercussions and the effect that suicide has on the people who are left behind. I suffered from clinical depression when my R broke up and it DOES make you selfish. I wallowed in my own self-pity for a long time. Although I didn't feel there was any point in carrying on and wanted to make the pain go away I have a young son and he was what kept me going. However, not everyone in this situation can see the wood for the trees as it were. It also helped me in a strange way that I lost a young cousin some years ago (although under different circumstances). I saw how badly that affected and continues to affect her immediate family and I would never want to put my parents through that. I can only think that this woman had the mindset that her children would be better off without her. She obviously didn't believe there was any way out.

 

Heartbreaking to think that she felt that way and even more heartbreaking for her children who are left behind.

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child_of_isis

There is a possibility that it was post partum. And a double dosage at that. 2 kids in 4 years could have done it. Post partum can sneak up on you. I was hospitalized for it 2 years after my daughters birth. If I would have gotten pregnant in that time frame, in all likelihood the depression would have killed me.

 

We can all sit here and judge this woman (it is after all, what women do) but the truth is, we will never know the extent of her pain.

 

So, some of us were lucky enough to live through it...I really don't think that gives us a right to have a holier than thou attitude toward those who die from it.

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annabelle75

I agree that she had serious emotional problems but since I have been there as well, I'm not so quick to let her off the hook for what she did to her family. I left off some key things she also did to my BF and her kids and probably shouldn't have. At the time that her affair was discovered, she reported my BF to his superior officer (he was in the military) for spousal abuse in an attempt to justify her affair to the courts and get full custody of their kids. He had never laid a finger on her and when it was finally proven false he was given primary custody, but in the process it did alot of damage to his military career and put their kids through alot of unneeded pain.

 

Also, prior to her suicide she tried to get my BF to take her back (after she was dumped by the guy she left him for). When he said no, she promised to make him regret it for the rest of his life. A few weeks later she ended her life. He didn't date for two years afterwards because he felt he was responsible for her death for not giving her another chance. She really messed with his mind in the end and has now left him to raise two kids on his own. He also was discharged from the military becasue of all his personal issues after her death.

 

Although I sympathize for anyone having problems with depression, I don't think it excuses what she did to the people around her.

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I just cant understand anyone so selfish and manipulative as to kill themselves just to hurt someone else.

 

I dont really get depressed I seem to get angry instead. I wonder if the two emotions are linked?

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PoshPrincess
I just cant understand anyone so selfish and manipulative as to kill themselves just to hurt someone else.

 

I dont really get depressed I seem to get angry instead. I wonder if the two emotions are linked?

 

And THAT is exactly why you DON'T understand!!!!

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LucreziaBorgia
I

I dont really get depressed I seem to get angry instead. I wonder if the two emotions are linked?

 

I've often heard it said that depression is anger turned inward, with no outlet.

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I've often heard it said that depression is anger turned inward, with no outlet.

 

I was just about to post the same thing. In "Counselling for Toads" Toad (of Toad Hall) is depressed about the various messes he's got himself into, and the manner in which he feels he's let down his friends. Badger, in the book, is the archetypal righteous "critic" who constantly berates Toad in exactly the way that's destined to encourage a depressed people to fall further down that spiral of gloom.

 

I recall a bit in the book where Badger talks about the "nonsense" of depression, and lets it be known that it's not a condition he ever suffers from. It's obvious to the reader that the reason Badger isn't prone to depression is because his coping mechanism is to turn anger on other people. To energetically judge, criticise and blame them. The easiest target for that kind of judgement and criticism would, of course, be the depressed, self-blaming individual.

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What a terrible story! I can relate to what everyone is saying about depression. I have known (of) quite a few people that have committed suicide. One of my great-grannies did. The pain of losing her H to heart failure and being ostracized by her family for marrying a black man to begin with, really drained and devastated her.

 

Suicide by a woman usually is a long time coming. Guys do it on a whim and are largely successful the first time, even if it was just on impulse.

 

This is one of the main reasons why the betrayed is constantly counselled, and rightly so, that the cheater cheats for their own distorted reasons that have nothing to do with what the betrayed can change. This woman probably cheated in every R she had with a man and thought that marrying her AP (affair partner) was going to make her into something different. That this *love* was the kind that changes people for the better. But neither turned out to be true.

 

I recall reading that the BF said he wasn't the best H. Not at all implying that this was his fault by a long shot. Its just that APs rarely ever make good MPs (marriage partners) and that is one of the reasons that the D rate for second and so on marriages is over 70%.

 

What a sad story. I know so many just like it though and we can psychoanalyze them until the cows come home and never know the exact event that pushed the suicidal to finally do it. I hope your BF doesn't blame himself. This was in her no matter what he did - good, bad, or otherwise.

 

On depression - I hate that people that have never been depressed are always so judgmental about the depressed. Depression is a very self-centered illness. All you think about is yourself and your pain and your hurts. Its hard to see your way out of it. Especially when you have people around you that think support is beating you over the head with your many excuses and deficiencies. A lot of people entering into unhealthy relationships are generally found to be depressed. This isn't limited to the implied selfishness of cheating. Some depressed people make things worst by becoming alcoholics or drug addicts. Some are love addicts. Its all really ugly and painful for anyone involved with them, including themselves.

 

Sorry for the book. And I have been doing a good job of staying off my computer. Darn it.

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PoshPrincess

Sorry for the book. And I have been doing a good job of staying off my computer. Darn it.

 

Glad you relented then, NID! Really good post! :)

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Hmmm.... Thats interesting. I have always believed that I didnt get depressed because I am successful. However, I do tend to exhibit some of badger's traits. I have to take extra steps to avoid being wickedly judgemental, while I do not verbally critizice others I tend to do this internally. I dont blame others for my mistakes, however I tend to feel that I can fix any problem and I will become frustrated with anyone who impedes me. Anyway, enough about me.

 

I still think suicide is an extreme act of selfishness in this situation. I feel bad for the guy who fell in love with this woman. Hopefully he has learned from it and is now a better judge of character.

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child_of_isis

I think the difference is...you can sympathize...I can empathize. Been there done that, got the t-shirt.

 

Although I sympathize for anyone having problems with depression, I don't think it excuses what she did to the people around her.

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child_of_isis

I cut your post up because these are the points I want to address. The op said that the H felt bad because he didn't give her another chance. As if giving her another chance at the R would have prevented anything. It wouldn't have. Like you said...women entertain suicide looooong before they do it. And if they leave children behind, you can bet the pain is beyond unbearable. But, it sounds like she had already lost the children. I think the H had taken them from her? So, there may be a possibility that she didn't feel she had to factor the children into the equation.

 

Anyway...those who don't understand depression, still consider it a personality or character flaw. Like one is weak or something. Just pull yourself up by your bootstaps already!!

 

Clueless, I tell ya!

 

I recall reading that the BF said he wasn't the best H. Not at all implying that this was his fault by a long shot. Its just that APs rarely ever make good MPs (marriage partners) and that is one of the reasons that the D rate for second and so on marriages is over 70%.

 

What a sad story. I know so many just like it though and we can psychoanalyze them until the cows come home and never know the exact event that pushed the suicidal to finally do it. I hope your BF doesn't blame himself. This was in her no matter what he did - good, bad, or otherwise.

 

On depression - I hate that people that have never been depressed are always so judgmental about the depressed. Depression is a very self-centered illness. All you think about is yourself and your pain and your hurts. Its hard to see your way out of it. Especially when you have people around you that think support is beating you over the head with your many excuses and deficiencies..

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PoshPrincess
I cut your post up because these are the points I want to address. The op said that the H felt bad because he didn't give her another chance. As if giving her another chance at the R would have prevented anything. It wouldn't have. Like you said...women entertain suicide looooong before they do it. And if they leave children behind, you can bet the pain is beyond unbearable. But, it sounds like she had already lost the children. I think the H had taken them from her? So, there may be a possibility that she didn't feel she had to factor the children into the equation.

 

Anyway...those who don't understand depression, still consider it a personality or character flaw. Like one is weak or something. Just pull yourself up by your bootstaps already!!

 

Clueless, I tell ya!

 

Well said, Child. I couldn't agree more. I hate all that "pull yourself together" type cr*p. It really isn't that simple. In my last job there had been a girl there before me who'd had some sort of breakdown and they talked about it in the office like it was one big joke :eek: (v professional!) Needless to say I didn't like to mention any of my problems. I did talk with my immediate boss but I daresay, now that I have left (or maybe even before), it would be all round the office! Some people don't understand that it's an illness. Y'know, "Why can't you come into work? Just 'cause you're feeling a bit down!" I've had days where I couldn't stop crying and couldn't drag myself outta bed. Not the right state to be going into work really......I think some see it as a poor excuse.

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Like Isis said, there is a difference between sympathy and empathy. I had a friend who used to decribe his depression as a thick black cloud that would just decend on him.

 

Then again I dont think he ever in his entire life had a single thought for anyone but himself. I have always wondered if his selfishness caused his depression or his depression caused his selfishness. Perhaps they were both symptoms of something else... like a chemical imbalance.

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PoshPrincess

 

Then again I dont think he ever in his entire life had a single thought for anyone but himself. I have always wondered if his selfishness caused his depression or his depression caused his selfishness. Perhaps they were both symptoms of something else... like a chemical imbalance.

 

Hmmm, you could well be onto something there. I guess though that, of those of us that suffer with depression, it is within us to start with but then rears its ugly head at a particularly stressful stage in our lives.

 

My cousin also suffers with depression and my aunt now remembers him taking to his bed for hours when he was a kid (those of you who have young kids will know that that's not usual behaviour - you can't normally get them to go to bed for love nor money!) if he had been chastised, or had an argument with friends, etc. That was the way he dealt with things but now we realise was probably early signs of the depression.

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annabelle75
Like Isis said, there is a difference between sympathy and empathy. I had a friend who used to decribe his depression as a thick black cloud that would just decend on him.

 

Then again I dont think he ever in his entire life had a single thought for anyone but himself. I have always wondered if his selfishness caused his depression or his depression caused his selfishness. Perhaps they were both symptoms of something else... like a chemical imbalance.

 

Excellent point. In the story I told, her depression did not come about until after she had cheated numerous times and done alot of damage to the people around here. No one will every really know if what she did caused the depression or if she was already depressed and acting out because of it. In a case like this, there are no clear cut answers.

 

COI - If you read each of my posts in this thread you would see that I have suffered from depression. So much so that at one point I had to seek treatment. I do get it, which is why I have trouble justifying what she allowed her suicide to do to her children. Even at my lowest point, I knew that it would be wrong to leave my daughter with that legacy. I forced myself to put aside how I was feeling and what I wanted to do and I made the choice to go to an emergency room to see a doctor. It was the most terrfying day in my entire life, because of how close it came to being my last. I also understand that every one and every story is different. What applies to me and what I have experienced may not aply to some one else. I think in sitautions like these, we will never have any real answers so no one here is necessarily right or wrong.

 

I really appreciated all the responses thus far. This thread appears to have become a true honest discussion and debate about an issue that I think alot of us, no matter what our sitautions are, can relate to. Thank you.

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PoshPrincess
Well if it is depression, it's treatable. :)

 

I'm lucky in that I got so desperate that I agreed to taking anti-depressants. It was the last route I wanted to go down but in the end I decided, what the hell? People take medication for life for various things, why should depression be any different.

 

Yes, it IS treatable but people have to want to help themselves first.

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The guy I am currently dating was in an interesting MW and OM situation years ago. I nor he, is looking for any advice on the situation since it is no longer relevant, but I though I’d put the story out there. I think many people here, on all sides of an affair might be able to take something from it.

 

He became involved with a MW when he was in his early 20s. She had been married about 5 years and had a child. Her husband worked out of town and would be gone for weeks if not months at a time. Their affair lasted about 6 months before she became pregnant. At that time she confessed to the affair and filed for divorce from her husband. Once the divorce was final she married my BF. They had two children together over about four years. I try not to push too much for details because I know it is still a very sensitive subject for him, but the marriage eventually ended with her cheating on him and leaving him for another man.

 

Hmmmm...lets see...she cheats on her husband, and now cheats on this guy too. Was it any surprise? This is why I wouldn't find myself with a married woman. Sure you don't know who will cheat on you, but if you are with somene who is married and cheating, then you KNOW they are cheaters.

 

 

While they were separated and waiting to finalize their divorce, she fell into a depression over her failing relationships with other men and killed herself leaving her 3 children without a mother. I find the whole story very sad. I think she lived her life very selfishly and hurt many people including her children while fulfilling her needs. When I hear people talk about WS being selfish, it is her story that immediately comes to mind.

 

God....i feel so bad for those kids. At least they still have their fathers right?

 

Although I don’t agree that everyone that cheats will cheat again

 

I do. And thats how I will see it from here on out. I won't date someone I know has cheated on bf's, husbands in the past. And if I start dating someone and find it out, it probably won't last long.

 

(cheaters never change), I think that she is an example of the kind that does. I know my BF regrets getting involved with a married woman in the first place, but I don’t think he or his kids deserve what she did to them.

 

No...not at all. He didn't deserve that at all. I don't have much sympathy for people who screw around with married people, but he didn't deserve for their mother to abandon the kids like that.

 

I sometimes wonder if by having her first affair and justifying it for herself, she set herself up for a downward spiral that eventually led to her suicide. It is something I have thought about often and is one of the reasons I am so compassionate towards OM/OW and WSes now.

 

I don't care what the excuse...there is NO justification or excuse for cheating or knowingly sleeping with other people's spouses. NONE.

 

I’m sure OM/OW and BS alike can identify with this story.

 

As a BS I can identify with the fact that she was a selfish tramp.

 

I will never have any sympathy for a cheater, no matter what the circumstance.

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TogetherForever
I'm lucky in that I got so desperate that I agreed to taking anti-depressants. It was the last route I wanted to go down but in the end I decided, what the hell? People take medication for life for various things, why should depression be any different.

 

Yes, it IS treatable but people have to want to help themselves first.

 

Posh,

My Lexapro does wonders for me!!

:laugh:

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Posh, my sister took anti-depressants and she used to complain that they took away her emotions. She has been a roller coaster since about 14. I think she is manic, but I remember the meds making her like a robot. They took away the deep deep lows, but also the emotional highs. Although it sounds like perhaps your depression was caused by a situation.

 

Its wierd that she is so different from me. When I do dumb stuff, I just kind of take it on the chin and say, well I wont do that again. She goes into this deep funk. Its like she is trapped in an alien world that I cant understand. Its like she feels that she has no control over her life. Actually I think that is exactly what part of her problem is... she has no control over herself, its like she is powerless to change her own behavior. So instead she just does what is instictual and justifies the consequences.

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