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What would you do....


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Shades of Grey

If someone had come to me a few years ago and asked if I would ever be involved with a MM I would have catagorically answered NO WAY! I was always of the school of thought that you can't help how you feel but you can help how you act and the choices that you make.

 

However I have found myself in a situation where I was an OW despite all of my morals and beliefs. I refuse to believe that this defines me as a person.

 

My question is for those of you who seem so quick to judge and make generalisations regarding OW.

 

If your sister, daughter, best friend came to you and said that they had been involved/were involved in a relationship with an MM what would you do?

 

Would you tell them that they were selfish, callous, cowardly and lacked respect? Would you crush them further when they were in pain by informing them that their MM couldn't possibly have ever felt anything real for them, that they were just a cheap thrill and that any depth of love felt in the relationship was imagined or fantasy.

 

Would you disregard all of their postive defining characteristics which made you love and respect them and hold them in contempt for the path that they had chosen? If you had previously considered them to be loyal, honorouble and kind human beings would you retract these opinions and no longer view them in the same light?

 

Or would you be able to cast aside your preconceptions of OW? To finally see things from your friend's perspective and allow yourself to understand that they made the choice they did despite who they are?

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I am a OW but I will say this... you are living proof of what I say all the time: NEVER SAY NEVER... LOL

 

Both my best friends know I am involved with MM... one is against it, she said she wouldn't but right now she's been dating a guy who is all secret about his life, she only see him on Fridays... ha-hem... but she refuses to think that he might be married.. oh well.

 

My other friend is married... and she's the most opened about it: she always tell me: Go for it... Enjoy... You are old enough to know exactly what you want and what's good for you... if you get hurt...it will be too bad for you... it's your choice...

 

I adore her... she's my 'bestest' friend... LOL

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When I was an OW, most of my friends and family were really supportive, it was only when I became depressed and miserable that they became concerned which I think they would have done whoever I was dating, whether he was married or not.

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If somebody I cared about got involved with a MM I would advise her to go stop before she gets hurt. I don't think that OW or OM are bad people but they are playing with fire and when they get burnt it is their own fault. I have friends that do drugs and are involved in illegal money making means and I apply the same approach to them. I care about them dearly but I don't condone what they do.

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I am in this position now but the friend of the MM ......

 

I told him I think it is great he is finally going to be happy. Be it with this OW or the next wife. He just needs to get rid of his current wife- she is the devil.

 

So no I don't think he did the right thing by having this affair, but the only reason I feel that way is because he is going to pay big time in divorce court and as soon as his W finds out she will go nuclear on him.

 

So no I don't judge him, because I do know how awful his W is. I can see why he is doing it.

 

I also know an OW and the W in another case. I don't agree with that situation because there is no marital problems, in this case the OW is basically in competition with the W and simply wants to win MM time to boost her own ego. More jealousy of the W than actual love or desire for the MM.

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PoshPrincess
When I was an OW, most of my friends and family were really supportive, it was only when I became depressed and miserable that they became concerned which I think they would have done whoever I was dating, whether he was married or not.

 

This was similar for me. I did have friends who I KNOW thought what I was doing was morally wrong, but they still supported me as I convinced them, as I had myself, that he really loved me and that it was only a matter of time before we would be together :rolleyes: How foolish of me!

 

I didn't tell my family about MM until a few months into the R (well, I DID but not that he was married). Now I can't even mention his name to my Mum now without her going mental which is hard as I would like to be able to talk to her about it from time to time. I can understand why she's like she is about him though. She knows how totally happy he made me when we were together and how totally miserable he made me when we split up!

 

I would advise any friend getting herself into the same sitch to leave well alone but WOULD be supportive, however, and would never do the 'I told you so' thing.

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Shades of Grey

Interesting responses regarding how supportive friends have been for those who have been there.

 

I think that the natural reaction for most people would be first and foremost concern that their friend will get hurt. Most I imagine would not advocate the behaviour and try and encourage the OW to consider the long term implications.

 

What i'm trying to get at however is answers from those on the forum who are so judgemental and derogatory about OW in general. Who claim that they can never understand how OW can make these choices and are so contemptuous towards them.

 

I want to know how they would react if a friend who they loved and respected said that they were involved in an affair with a MM. Would it be with the same responses that they dish out to those on LS?

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If a freiend were involved with a MW I would approach it the same I do on here. I don't mince words with anybody. If you truly care about somebody you are willing to tell them what they need to hear.

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If somebody I cared about got involved with a MM I would advise her to go stop before she gets hurt. I don't think that OW or OM are bad people

 

I don't think the ones that were lied to and didn't know they were with a married person are bad people. The ones that knew, and didn't care who they hurt in the process....different story.

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Sorry, you're not going to like hearing this... but if it was a friend, I'd probably drop her like a hot rock. Fact is, we wouldn't have enough left in common to base a friendship upon. I would no longer respect her.

 

If it was a family member, I imagine they'd be avoiding me until the affair was over, because I'd ride their ass over it every opportunity I had. Very much as Woggle has said... you don't stand idly by and say nothing while the people you care about 'run with scissors'. So no, I wouldn't be mincing words.

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Shades of Grey
Sorry, you're not going to like hearing this... but if it was a friend, I'd probably drop her like a hot rock. Fact is, we wouldn't have enough left in common to base a friendship upon. I would no longer respect her.

 

Not a question of me not liking it rather looking for honest responses. Thanks for yours.

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ThumbingMyWay
... you don't stand idly by and say nothing while the people you care about 'run with scissors'. So no, I wouldn't be mincing words.

 

 

evil things happen when good people stand by and do nothing about it

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Sorry, you're not going to like hearing this... but if it was a friend, I'd probably drop her like a hot rock. Fact is, we wouldn't have enough left in common to base a friendship upon. I would no longer respect her.

What a selfish concept of friendship.

 

Luckily, I have many people in my life who truly care for me. I have friends who, based on their personal morals/experiences, think I should leave this relationship in the dust. But they only give advice when I ask, and they are generous enough to support me and wish me happiness.

 

My family has also been supportive. Almost all of my immediate family--even those who live states away--have met MM. Most of my relatives adore MM. After meeting MM, my dad has actually advised me to give him a chance noting that MM treats me well and seems sincere. Only my mom has given me some rather pointed advice and only because we're close and she's seen me hurt. She's told me "he's not the one." But she also loves me enough to give me credit that, as an adult, I can make my own choices and accept my own consequences. And now that he and W are ending their M, she's actually starting a process of accepting him.

 

All of these people I mentioned above, they are not enablers, but they are all mature and compassionate enough to be true to me as a friend while staying true to themselves. They have the maturity to understand that my life is mine to do with as I please, even if they disagree. They know that we all make our own choices and they know that they have a choice to love me even in the face of what might be bad choices. I am a lucky women in that they've all chosen love.

 

I have no doubt that if this R fails, they will all give me a shoulder to cry on instead of an "I told you so," and then help me move on. I think they would start getting into the "tough love" if I took too long moving on, and then I suspect they'd simply be pushing me to get help for myself so I could heal and have a happy life, not because they think I'm an immoral and selfish woman.

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What a selfish concept of friendship.

 

Shades asked an honest question... I gave an honest answer. I consider what OM/OWs do as an act of evil, just as bad as what the MM/MW-cheater does. And when people are tolerant of unrepentant evil, to my mind the ARE "enablers", much as TMW has said. I don't allow people to use racial slurs in my presence without speaking out. This is just the same kind of thing in my opinion.

 

Almost all of my immediate family--even those who live states away--have met MM. Most of my relatives adore MM. After meeting MM, my dad has actually advised me to give him a chance noting that MM treats me well and seems sincere. Only my mom has given me some rather pointed advice and only because we're close and she's seen me hurt. She's told me "he's not the one." But she also loves me enough to give me credit that, as an adult, I can make my own choices and accept my own consequences.

 

If I'm remembering your story correctly... you would have done better to listen to your Mom. Wasn't your MM the one who was putting off leaving until he finished milking his betrayed wife's health insurance??? :confused:

 

Time will tell, I guess. In the interim and just to get inside his head a little bit... why don't you try telling a bold-faced lie to one of these friends or family members? A real whopper too, one that you'd have to stay with and even improvise on for awhile. And while you're at it, maybe extort a little something from one of them. (I'm not being facetious. I'm being serious. As an experiment, step into MM's shoes and see what you really think of him. You can always clue your loved ones in later.)

 

After you're done and it's gone on long enough to get an honest appraisal... go look at yourself in the mirror and decide if you like what you see. Lying is easy, Cliche. :(

For decent people though... living with the lie is a whole different matter.

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I think that the natural reaction for most people would be first and foremost concern that their friend will get hurt. Most I imagine would not advocate the behaviour and try and encourage the OW to consider the long term implications.

 

This is true. however, now as an ex-OW, I feel that I would be able to offer more advice than someone who hasn't "been there", and i would strongly discourage someone from becoming an OW.

 

Interestingly, although i have been there, and can see the OWs point of view from time to time, i am more anti-cheating now than I have ever been before. I would (and have) sit any friend down who was considering this course of action and tell them to seriously reconsider their actions.

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GreenEyedLady

I think the fact of the matter is, until you're in the situation, you don't know what you'd do...

 

You can speculate, but you never really know...

 

I guess it comes down to, do you live your life so that it satisfies those around you, or do you live your life the best way you know how? Do you want to be friends with someone who expects perfection in one certain category? And if so is that person really a friend?

 

A friend is someone who guides you when you're in need and supports you when you are down...A friend is not someone whose standards we need to live up to, or I have to ask, why are they my friend?

 

There are plenty of those who will be judge and jury...Do I need that from a friend? You be my shoulder to cry on and I'll be yours...But if I have to worry about being crucified by someone under the guise of them being my friend, with friends like that, who needs enemies?

 

That doesn't mean as a friend you shouldn't voice concern or disapproval, but if your friendship is conditional on one act, then it's really not friendship...

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There are plenty of those who will be judge and jury...Do I need that from a friend?

 

Actually, I agree with that. ;)

But... if my hypothetical "friend" had acted as "judge and jury" regarding someone else's marriage... I couldn't respect that and wouldn't respect her for doing it.

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Shades asked an honest question... I gave an honest answer. I consider what OM/OWs do as an act of evil, just as bad as what the MM/MW-cheater does. And when people are tolerant of unrepentant evil, to my mind the ARE "enablers", much as TMW has said. I don't allow people to use racial slurs in my presence without speaking out. This is just the same kind of thing in my opinion.

I didn't say it wasn't honest, I said it was selfish. When you remain obstinent in your opinions to the point where you can't be a friend to a person who acts in a way you don't approve of and you don't like, it's selfish. I appreciate your honesty. I'm just giving you my honest opinion in return.

 

 

If I'm remembering your story correctly... you would have done better to listen to your Mom. Wasn't your MM the one who was putting off leaving until he finished milking his betrayed wife's health insurance??? :confused:

A little bit more involved than that, but yes.

 

Time will tell, I guess. In the interim and just to get inside his head a little bit... why don't you try telling a bold-faced lie to one of these friends or family members? A real whopper too, one that you'd have to stay with and even improvise on for awhile. And while you're at it, maybe extort a little something from one of them. (I'm not being facetious. I'm being serious. As an experiment, step into MM's shoes and see what you really think of him. You can always clue your loved ones in later.)

I have lied to people I love. It's not usually pretty, and I always have to deal with the fallout. But those people who love me, love me despite my mistakes, not because I don't make them in the first place.

 

After you're done and it's gone on long enough to get an honest appraisal... go look at yourself in the mirror and decide if you like what you see. Lying is easy, Cliche. :(

For decent people though... living with the lie is a whole different matter.

It has taken me a long time to get over the fact that I am, indeed, imperfect...that I make mistakes and that I am not always the person I want to be. I have had to surrender to my humanness. It has, in my life's journey, been one of the toughest things I've faced...my own shortcomings. But I have found that I need to find peace with myself, not by being perfect, but by both being true to what I feel coupled with what I think is best, forgiving myself when I make the wrong choices, and accepting responsibility for my own actions. As it turns out, when I look in the mirror now, I like myself a whole lot more than I did when I tried to never make mistakes (and failed, like most people do, and then disliked myself for that failing).

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Shades of Grey

Interestingly, although i have been there, and can see the OWs point of view from time to time, i am more anti-cheating now than I have ever been before. I would (and have) sit any friend down who was considering this course of action and tell them to seriously reconsider their actions.

 

 

Oh absolutely SB129. I completely agree with you and would do exactly the same.

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This is true. however, now as an ex-OW, I feel that I would be able to offer more advice than someone who hasn't "been there", and i would strongly discourage someone from becoming an OW.

 

Interestingly, although i have been there, and can see the OWs point of view from time to time, i am more anti-cheating now than I have ever been before. I would (and have) sit any friend down who was considering this course of action and tell them to seriously reconsider their actions.

A close friend of mine just found herself in bed with a MM, and she is already indicating that she is developing feelings for him. I wanted to scream "NO, RUN FAR FAR AWAY!" But instead, I reminded her of my pain--that she very generously helped me with--this past year. Then I told her I trust her, am here for her, I want her to find her happiness whichever way it comes, and she should try to protect her heart.

 

I think she's going to get hurt. And I'm going to hurt with her when it happens. But it is her life and her choice, not mine. I won't forget that.

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I think the fact of the matter is, until you're in the situation, you don't know what you'd do...

 

In what situation? Being exposed to an unavailable person? Thousands of times each day I find myself exposed to married people - each time I somehow avoid getting into a relationship with them.

 

But in some ways I can really see how the OW/MM thing makes alot of sense for both parties. It is almost like an artificial but highly concentrated form of an actual "relationship". The guy seems to get what he wants most (sex) and the girl gets hers (an attentive male who worships her and treats her like a princess) without any of the struggles that a true relationship entails. Am I wrong here?

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When you remain obstinent in your opinions to the point where you can't be a friend to a person who acts in a way you don't approve of and you don't like, it's selfish. I appreciate your honesty. I'm just giving you my honest opinion in return.

 

"If you don't stand for something... you're likely to fall for anything."

I have to support my beliefs. As I told you, this is no different to my mind than allowing people to use racial or religious slurs in my presence. If you want to call that "selfish", that's up to you of course. Your opinion is yours. Same as mine is mine.

 

 

It has taken me a long time to get over the fact that I am, indeed, imperfect...that I make mistakes and that I am not always the person I want to be. I have had to surrender to my humanness.

 

That's the difference between you and me then. I never "surrender". ;)

I always strive to do just a little better than I did the day before. I try and fail... then I try again.

 

I believe that Life is for the enrichment and perfection of the soul, so that's my everyday impetus. My world is a training ground, where I attempt to learn what God intends me to learn.

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I believe that Life is for the enrichment and perfection of the soul, so that's my everyday impetus. My world is a training ground, where I attempt to learn what God intends me to learn.

 

Well, I certainly hope He doesn't drop YOU like a hot rock when you don't measure up.

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Shades of Grey

In what situation? Being exposed to an unavailable person? Thousands of times each day I find myself exposed to married people - each time I somehow avoid getting into a relationship with them.

 

But in some ways I can really see how the OW/MM thing makes alot of sense for both parties. It is almost like an artificial but highly concentrated form of an actual "relationship". The guy seems to get what he wants most (sex) and the girl gets hers (an attentive male who worships her and treats her like a princess) without any of the struggles that a true relationship entails. Am I wrong here?

 

Yes. The ' situation' has nothing to do with being exposed to unavailable people. If that was the case then every OW on here would be conducting hundreds of a's with MM simultaneously! Of course we are exposed to unavailable people every day. You will never understand if you try and reduce it to that level.

 

And again reducing all affairs down to sex and attentiveness is just generalisation which as you can see from the dozens of stories on LS just has no foundation.

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I believe that Life is for the enrichment and perfection of the soul, so that's my everyday impetus. My world is a training ground, where I attempt to learn what God intends me to learn.

Are you actually learning, or just assuming you know the answer?

 

Anyway, to each his own. Neither of us is changing the others mind, and we shouldn't try anyway, and I don't really feel like just listening to myself talk. :) Take care.

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