Lizzie60 Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 ...read this: About 4 1/2 years ago... I dated a very good-looking black male for 6 months... I was still recuperating from my last separation... anyway... I was very naive back then, this guy was married but always denied it and I believed him. He would come over, then simulated an urgent phone call at 3 in the morning in order to go home... he used sooo many excuses...always quite 'plausible'...so I believe him... He was, to this day, the biggest and the best liar I've ever met. I even spent one night over to his house one weekend... he said he was living with his 18 yr old daughter... that's why I was seeing make-up, women's stuff everwhere... When I asked him about all the kiddies's stuff, he said his brother would come visit most weekends with his 3 small kids... Anyway, he would call me from his cell phone, or from his office phone... I had call display... but one evening he called me from a 'new' phone number... I wrote it down. One evening I called that number, a woman answered, I asked for X, she said... 'Please don't hang up, I need to talk to you, I'm his wife'.. she begged me not to hang up... She then told me that she could never 'proved' his cheating... and this time she wanted me to cooperate with her to bust him. He would tell her she was crazy and imagining things... he would get mad at her... blablabla. I was sooo pissed that he lied to me... that I said yes... The next week, she rented a car, parked on a street next to my apart. building... and waited... That night, him and I went for dinner... At the restaurant, I asked him one more time if he was married..he got mad at me and told me to stop nagging him about that, that he wasn't and that was the end of the story...he didn't want to hear anymore about this. After dinner, we were walking hand in hand... we were almost at the door of the building, she followed us, it was getting dark.. she said something to him... He recognized her voice, turned around... he was shocked!... She then asked me my name, she pretend she never talked to me... then my phone number, etc. She then slapped him across the face soo hard and told me I could slap him too.. LOL Anyway, she asked us to go sit in the car that she had a few questions to ask us... I answered honestly to all her questions... he still lied... but I confronted him.... It was extremely painful for her...but I suppose she was on adrenalin so it didn't show too much...she had her questionnaire ready. After about 1/2 an hour, she told me I could go.. that she needed to talk to him... They stayed down there for about 2 hours.... She then called me, she was still in the car, he had left... and said to me... that they've been married for 20 years, had 4 children from 18 to 3... they were having sex regularly, she was good looking... then she told me that he started cheating after 3 months they were married...and never stopped since. She said she didn't know what to do... duh!!!! I was stunned... she then said... 'I am good looking, don't you think?' I said yes.... then she said: 'well X told me that you were not even good looking... and he didn't know why he was seeing you... he loves me and doesn't love you'... (and the worst is...I felt she was believing her loser). About 2 weeks later... she called me again...she wanted to know if he had tried to reach me... I said no. About a month after, he contacted me... he said she had calmed down and life was back to normal... and said he missed me... I told him to f*ck off! duh!!!! I can tell you other stories similar to this one... that's why I promised myself I would never ever tell another W again... Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Interesting story Lizzie, I don't doubt you have more like this. I just read in another thread a quote from another woman that said "why would I want to hear anything from the OW, I chose to beleive my H and that's good enough for me" something to that effect. What can I say, he/she who does not want to know, won't. And the head scratching continues with "why does this keep happening to me?" and the answer is very simple, "you allow it". I think a BS has no reason to believe what the OP has to say but on the same token they really have no reason to believe the cheating liar either so.... Link to post Share on other sites
Mino Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Tomcat, I love your writing, you have such a great way of putting things right with your words, I could just follow you around all night on LS, Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Interesting story Lizzie, I don't doubt you have more like this. I just read in another thread a quote from another woman that said "why would I want to hear anything from the OW, I chose to beleive my H and that's good enough for me" something to that effect. What can I say, he/she who does not want to know, won't. And the head scratching continues with "why does this keep happening to me?" and the answer is very simple, "you allow it". I think a BS has no reason to believe what the OP has to say but on the same token they really have no reason to believe the cheating liar either so.... I'm not sure you are talking about me. If you are, let me clarify what I said. I said that knowing he had sex even just once is enough for me to have kicked him out. What more do I need to know? Does it really matter where they had sex or how many times or how. Fact is, it happened, and I really don't care what she has to say, my issue is with my H and what he did. Why do I need anymore truth from the OW? Link to post Share on other sites
Mino Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 :Doops ! Tomcat I think your being stalked!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Mino Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 I think I am getting outa here!!!!!:bunny::bunny::bunny: Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 I would also like to say, that it's not hard to fill in the blanks when you have phone bills and credit card receipts to look at that put the pieces together. Like I said, not every BW is willing to put up with crap. I know that I took a chance on letting my H back into my life. I'm willing to take that chance. We have both accepted our responsibility in what went wrong in our marriage and we have been able to fix what was wrong. It was my choice to get back with him, and I'm responsible for my own actions. Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 I think I am getting outa here!!!!!:bunny::bunny::bunny: Interesting. People always complain that the BW blames the OW and why doesn't she(the BW) blame her H. Well here I am agreeing with you. I blame my H and I don't want anything to do with the OW. What's wrong with that? Also, I'm taking responsibility for my own actions and no matter what happens, I know it was my choice. What's wrong with that? Someone please tell me. Link to post Share on other sites
Mino Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 you are one of the lucky ones, I know my xmm used cash, and only his cell. I am sure many cover up there tracks well. The way she found out is when he told her he is moving out. No wait a minute, she also found a itenery of a vacation we took together. But that was already 2 1/2 years into A. I guess he was slacking in the end. Link to post Share on other sites
Turquoise Waters Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 In your case, the BW already pretty much knew. I think it is very vindictive when OWs talk about informing the BS out of the blue, though. Link to post Share on other sites
Mino Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 sounds like you H was remorseful. Thats a good thing. Some do shape up. Problem my xmm has, is he is still coming back, even after she discovered. So he is not remoreseful. I wish you the best , I really do! Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 :Doops ! Tomcat I think your being stalked!!! I believed that Tomcat had misquoted me, so I corrected her. How is that stalking? Don't you read different threads? Especially new ones. If you post on a thread that I have posted on, are you stalking me? Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 sounds like you H was remorseful. Thats a good thing. Some do shape up. Problem my xmm has, is he is still coming back, even after she discovered. So he is not remoreseful. I wish you the best , I really do! Thank you. I think what helped us, is that we are both willing to take responsibility in the problems that happened in our marriage. He took complete responsibility for the affair. He never blamed me or the OW. We have been married a long time and life, kids, work, etc. got in the way of our marriage. We took each other for granted and that is never good in any relationship Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Mino thanks hehe Herenow To be honest I didn't remember who said that, it could have very well have been your post. but notice I said "something to the effect"when I requoted. It doesn't really matter what the exact words were or who said them, it is less about WHO says it and more about what is said. Which more often than not it is interchangable by a lot of BS who chose to take them back. I was not trying to zero anyone out, it was just a point I wanted to convey. While I respect your reasons for not wanting to know, I would like to add that it is not about divulging how many positions sex was had, the sex part is the least part that should concern the BS in my mind. it is more about telling the W what was said and what was shared. There are many things that are said and done in the act of "love" and giving love and promises that I think are beneficial to the BS to know to cross reference just how far their spouse was willing to go to lie and cover and deceive both the BS AND the OW. In my case it was important for me to tell her that our rel was NOT about sex it was about a deep connection, it was about love, about meeting my family and his about everyone knowing about us except her, it was about pretending like he was going though with the D, it was about buying me an expensive ring with what could have been THEIR joined money for all I know, it was about the things he said about her about their intimacy, it is about ripping the mask off of the man she was so willing to take for face value. His face was covered with a pretty mask I wanted to make sure she knew that. I parted ways and told her I wanted him out of my life for good to please keep him away because now that I had demasked him I hated what I saw beneath. It was about letting her know that even after he must have made promises to her to cut all ties with me to salvage the realtionship he could not even keep that part of the bargain to her. I can't speak for every case but to narrow it down to whether the cheater and the OP had sex 1 or 10 times is really down playing to YOURSELF the BS, the intensity of what REALLY happened. If you are wanting to take him back of course you won't want to know that, it would only work against your immediate goal. I think if you were to look long term, it is more to your benefit to know to what extend was is willing to lie, than not. At the end of the day she said to me "yeah but you knew you were getting involved with someone who was still married" to which I answered "I also knew he was working on the D with you, I had no idea he had moved back in with you otherwise I would have never agreed to meet him again and I beleived he was still living on his own when he purposely called me from his apartment, just as you beleived him when he told you he had cut all contact with me, and he had not at ALL." I don't think she had much to come back at me with at that point. I can't say I felt great about saying some things that probably shocked her and were painful to hear but I think in the long run I was not her enemy no matter what she chooses to beleive I was just as much a victim of his lies as she was, and I needed her to know that. Whether she wants to see it that way or not is out of my hands. Link to post Share on other sites
Mino Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Great post again!!! That IS the reason why I want to TELL to, I was not just a fling of 6 months, but we had a Relationship for 3 years. And he is still not holking up to her expectations to this day. I say PULL THE MASK OFF!!! Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Mino thanks hehe Herenow To be honest I didn't remember who said that, it could have very well have been your post. but notice I said "something to the effect"when I requoted. It doesn't really matter what the exact words were or who said them, it is less about WHO says it and more about what is said. Which more often than not it is interchangable by a lot of BS who chose to take them back. I was not trying to zero anyone out, it was just a point I wanted to convey. While I respect your reasons for not wanting to know, I would like to add that it is not about divulging how many positions sex was had, the sex part is the least part that should concern the BS in my mind. it is more about telling the W what was said and what was shared. There are many things that are said and done in the act of "love" and giving love and promises that I think are beneficial to the BS to know to cross reference just how far their spouse was willing to go to lie and cover and deceive both the BS AND the OW. In my case it was important for me to tell her that our rel was NOT about sex it was about a deep connection, it was about love, about meeting my family and his about everyone knowing about us except her, it was about pretending like he was going though with the D, it was about buying me an expensive ring with what could have been THEIR joined money for all I know, it was about the things he said about her about their intimacy, it is about ripping the mask off of the man she was so willing to take for face value. His face was covered with a pretty mask I wanted to make sure she knew that. I parted ways and told her I wanted him out of my life for good to please keep him away because now that I had demasked him I hated what I saw beneath. It was about letting her know that even after he must have made promises to her to cut all ties with me to salvage the realtionship he could not even keep that part of the bargain to her. I can't speak for every case but to narrow it down to whether the cheater and the OP had sex 1 or 10 times is really down playing to YOURSELF the BS, the intensity of what REALLY happened. If you are wanting to take him back of course you won't want to know that, it would only work against your immediate goal. I think if you were to look long term, it is more to your benefit to know to what extend was is willing to lie, than not. At the end of the day she said to me "yeah but you knew you were getting involved with someone who was still married" to which I answered "I also knew he was working on the D with you, I had no idea he had moved back in with you otherwise I would have never agreed to meet him again and I beleived he was still living on his own when he purposely called me from his apartment, just as you beleived him when he told you he had cut all contact with me, and he had not at ALL." I don't think she had much to come back at me with at that point. I can't say I felt great about saying some things that probably shocked her and were painful to hear but I think in the long run I was not her enemy no matter what she chooses to beleive I was just as much a victim of his lies as she was, and I needed her to know that. Whether she wants to see it that way or not is out of my hands. Tomcat, you have no idea what I know when I say I don't need to talk to the OW to get anymore truth. After months of MC, I know more than the OW would even want me to know. MY H felt that he needed to tell me every detail because he didn't want to hold onto the lies. The only thing she would be able to add are the details that I have no interest in hearing from her. I know so much more about the OW and my H than I'm sure she would ever tell me. I have also been able to listen to messages from her asking my H to lie to me so that they could continue the affair. She wanted him to call her so that they could come up with a story to tell me that would match if I ever called her. He gave me his phone and changed his number, so I didn't even have to share her messages with him, but I did. Together we came up with the best way to handle it. So yeah, I know enough. Also, I know that the OW fell in love with my H and I know that he never shared that feeling. I know because I also read her e-mails begging him to tell her it was more that just the sex. He never did. It was something that she asked for in many voices messages and e-mails: "Why don't you ever tell me you love me?" she would ask Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Lizzie, I don't see what she said to you as indicative of believing her H over you. She did call you two weeks later because she probably didn't believe him. Why is this story a warning about telling the W? Sounds pretty harmless. She enlisted your help busting him and even pulled off acting like she never spoke to you. Where is the warning? What did she do that makes this story a warning? Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Herenow: Fair enough. you are very fortunate that within all the lies of the A your H chose to have you actually have yourself an honest man who is trying to really make things work for you. I am pleased to hear he has really turned himself around for you and for what he did. I think your case is rare, but I know they do exist. You are proof of that. I suppose my comment is more for the OW who are involved with men who ended it once Dday rolled around and who continue to contact the OW after the fact. I think those men need to be exposed. In my case I feel I did the right thing, the man does not show any sings of remorse, not what I can see on my end and I still get the periodic emails that he sends me to remind me of how much he still loves me misses me blaaaaahhh etc. That in itself gives me the assurance that I did the right thing. I exposed a man who need to be exposed, even if he will still lie to his W and she eats it all up (by her choice) at least I showed him he can no longer mess with me. One out of two ain't bad. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lizzie60 Posted July 20, 2007 Author Share Posted July 20, 2007 Tomcat, I love your writing, you have such a great way of putting things right with your words, I could just follow you around all night on LS, She's one of the great poster on LS... Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Mino thanks hehe I can't speak for every case but to narrow it down to whether the cheater and the OP had sex 1 or 10 times is really down playing to YOURSELF the BS, the intensity of what REALLY happened. If you are wanting to take him back of course you won't want to know that, it would only work against your immediate goal. I think if you were to look long term, it is more to your benefit to know to what extend was is willing to lie, than not. Sorry, I didn't address this. I didn't want him back, I wanted him out. He is the one that convinced me he was worth a second chance. It is his goal and he has everything to lose by not telling me the truth. I know for a fact that the OW would lie to me. I heard her say it! So, Why waste my time? Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 She's one of the great poster on LS... Aww thanks Lizzie you are both so sweet. Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Sorry, I didn't address this. I didn't want him back, I wanted him out. He is the one that convinced me he was worth a second chance. It is his goal and he has everything to lose by not telling me the truth. I know for a fact that the OW would lie to me. I heard her say it! So, Why waste my time? Out of curiosity did you kick him out and were you apart for a bit before you took him back? I'll explain why I ask in a sec.. Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Out of curiosity did you kick him out and were you apart for a bit before you took him back? I'll explain why I ask in a sec.. He didn't want to leave, but I insisted he get out of the house. He stayed in his car that night. We got an emergency session with a therapist the next day. I was there to talk about the best way to deal with the kids. I didn't want this to have more of a negative effect on them than was necessary. I had already called a lawyer that morning and asked him to start the paper work. The therapist asked me to wait 30 days to file. I agreed, but I still needed him out. He slept on the couch for the next few nights until he went to stay in a hotel near his work. After the 30 days, I agreed to continue therapy. I let him come back home basically for the kids sake. He slept in the playroom. It was quite a while before I let him back into our bed. The kids knew that we had problems, but they never knew what the problems were. I wouldn't burden my kids with that. The therapist helped us explain it to them in terms that they could understand. Does that answer your question? Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Yes it does thanks. It's interesting because it sort of backs up a theory that I have. In the infidelity forum I posted something earlier today as to why the success rate of marriages after an A is low and I think it is because the BS take back their spouses right away giving the impression in actions that they forgive their partner simply by saying ok you can stay. In your case he saw that you were serious about leaving him he saw that you did not accept his behaviour and when faced with the actual loss he did a 180. I think the reason your situation worked out and this is is where my theory comes into play, is beacuse you were willing to walk away you were going to walk away. You contacted lawyer etc. I think a cheater does not learn the lesson unless he is actually faced with losing everything. The "idea" of it is not good enough but the act is. SOme BS out of panic or need just take back the cheater right away and then try to get him to bargain, and I think when you just let him come back instantly (showing you forgive) you lose your bargaining power you send out the wrong message. That's just my theory of course. Link to post Share on other sites
Mino Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 GEE this night is better then watching tV! I wish we could all sit around drinking wine, face to face having this conversation:) Link to post Share on other sites
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