Update and question: Cell phone and my discovery

[outofdarkness]

Hey everyone,

I have a question that I probrably asked before, but I need a reminder. If I am finding JUST CELL #'s on my H's cell...NOT cell AND work but JUST CELL, do you all think this could legitimately be work related or just personal...I don't see any men coworkers with JUST cells...It is only work, some work AND cell, but none that are JUST cell...They are all in the same branch office in the same city...

 

I appreciate the input and patience in helping me thru this..I am try to be informed and very knowledgable about these things...

 

These W could be coworkers, as he does visit a branch in this city, but there are NO work # in his cell for them...ONLY cell..When I call using *67, the voice mail kicks in w/ just a normal message that anyone would put on personal cell...I did call in the middle of the night...That's why v mail kicked in.

 

As always, all replies are appreciated as long as you all please make and effort to be kind and respectul and on topic...I really appreciate you all taking the time to read this and reply if you do!! ood

[norajane]

In my office, and in the industry in general, most people have both an office and work cell number, but they use their cells as the primary phone. I hardly ever even check my voice mail for my office number as I do some traveling and often work from home and I tell people on my office vm to call my cell phone. So I wouldn't think it at all unusual that he's only got cell numbers for work contacts.

 

However, my work cell vm does have a message saying 'you've reached norajane of 'company name'..."

[SoxPrincess]

OOD,

 

I don't think it's unusual that he has just cell numbers, however, I think it also depends what he does for work. Are there a lot of people at his business that travel a lot or are on call? My DH is in the Army (as a Recruiter) and 99% of the #'s in his cell are other cell #'s but that's because he travels a lot and technically, recruiters are on call 24 hours a day. I would think he would have some work numbers mixed in there, but again, it depends on what his job is. The only other red flag I see is the fact that you got a generic message, which does seem a tad unusual. Was it just a message that said "Hi you've reached blah blah" or was there any mention of association with a business?

 

I continue to keep you in my thoughts and stay strong!!

[Can'tGiveUp]

Hmmm..just a thought but the guys in my office all have their office numbers forwarded to their cell phones. So, if you call their office number and they don't answer it forwards to their cell phone, where they either answer or you get their voicemail (the one attached to the cell number). To be honest, I'm not sure which number would show if I called them from my cell - their work # that I dialed or their cell # that actually answered...

 

Maybe I'll test this out for you...will take a bit for the results - til my next cell bill...

[solo_flyer]

I only keep my office mates' cell numbers on my cell phone. The reason is that if I am in the office, then they are probably in the office too. Why would I look up someone's office number on my cell phone when I am going to dial from my office phone to their office phone? I have most of their office numbers / extensions memorized anyway.

 

Sometimes we get together for drinks after work and such, or we are offsite together dealing with clients, so that's why I keep the cell numbers.

[outofdarkness]

OOD,

 

I don't think it's unusual that he has just cell numbers, however, I think it also depends what he does for work. Are there a lot of people at his business that travel a lot or are on call? My DH is in the Army (as a Recruiter) and 99% of the #'s in his cell are other cell #'s but that's because he travels a lot and technically, recruiters are on call 24 hours a day. I would think he would have some work numbers mixed in there, but again, it depends on what his job is. The only other red flag I see is the fact that you got a generic message, which does seem a tad unusual. Was it just a message that said "Hi you've reached blah blah" or was there any mention of association with a business?

 

I continue to keep you in my thoughts and stay strong!!

NO!!! There is NO mention of the business name or even a hint of the # being business related..The v mail messages simply say; "Hi, you've reached so and so, leave a message"...THAT is why it is so bothersome to me...I see what you all are saying about travel, but my H has 800 #'s for the branches that he services as well as direct extentions...In his cell, most # numbers have just a work # with an occasional cell...These are ALL women, and ONLY cells #'s NO work extenstions...Yes, he does travel quite often, as I have said previously on LS../but should there be ANY reason why he would not have work ext and MABEY a cell? Just a cell is very suspicious to me...If the employee is working from home, which I know is quite often these days, wouldn't the cell V mail give some sort of inference to the co.?

 

Also, I had something VERY disturbing happen this past evening..I was chatting w/ the Mother of a friend of our son's after she dropped her son off for a sleep over when all of the sudden my H comes outside with cell in hand telling me that he's leaving to meet a collegue who was in town w/ his son to visit college..He had his cell phone open with the v mail playing so that I would know that he was going where he said he would be..so that there would be no doubts in my mind I suppose..It did just the opposite and immediately got my radar going...For one thing, he made sure that I knew that he was vacuuming his car and cleaning it on Fri...Said it just was nasty due to the dog hair from our shepard...I smelled a rat then, but when he all of the sudden left this past evening while I was chatting w/ my friend and could not say anything, I KNEW something was amiss...Mind games? Cover?? What do you all think? I did call him while he was supposedly w/ this male coworker at a hotel bar, and he held his cell out so that the guy could say hi, but I also heard a W's voice in the background, which I asked him about, and he promptly said it was the waitress..If this is the truth, why would lie to me about this coworker coming to town w/ his son? Or rather just omitt the info about then coming into town...I do consider this to be a form of dishonesty Why would he not mention it to me or invite me to go along? Why would he not invite the guy and his son to come by the house? I would have gladly fixed a nice meal and showed them both some good old fasioned southern hospitality...Why the secrecy? I wonder WHAT he has told them about myself and our kids...For instance, that we are separated, etc...It's so bothersome to me... Is he embarrassed of us or me? What IS the deal...It was so strange, it was surreal...

 

Any input is welcome as long as you all can try and keep from bashing me for still being with him...I am working on getting my act together now that our son is better, but it will take some time, and I am trying to gather as much evidence as possible inbetween now and the time that I DO decide to make a move..Incidentily, the friend that I was chatting w/ at the time that he left, is going thru something very similar to what I am, only she is just now coming out of the "twilight zone" and I am helping her to learn the ropes...My H knows about it simply b/c he overheard a conversation that we had by accident on my part....Do you all think this is related at all? I am at a loss and really want to stay on top of things...

 

I am also interested in knowing the "tricks of the trade" so to speak; meaning I would LOVE to know what exactly OW and MM do to cover their tracks and keep things under wraps and hidden from the W and family...I am disgusted w/ him at the moment and am quite certain that any OW is too, that is if they/she is even aware that he is M w/ a family...

 

Thanks for taking the time to read this and for the replies that I have gotten so far...Armed with more info re: his behavior and the particulars of the situation at hand, do you all have any other advice or thoughts?? Thanks again..ood

[BurriedAlive]

Hi Outofdarkeness. The way I look at it, people who have nothing to hide, hide nothing. When MM & I were sneaking around, we always had to come up with a detailed story about what we were supposed to be doing when we were off together. These stories were way more detailed than if we were telling the truth. The way I look at it, when a person is lying, they have to cover off all their bases in their head so that if they are asked questions about their whereabouts, their answers will be easy. As a result, their answers come out as very rehearsed. Also, when a person is lying, they will give more details than they were asked for. By the sounds of what happened yesterday, I would be very suspicious of him as well. It is really strange how he had his male coworker say hi.

 

In my case, W never suspected anything about my A with her H. I know that because when we had our meeting after D day, that was one of the questions I asked her. My xMM was a traveler as well. He was always on the road and this made our meetings very easy because his patterns never changed. As you know, Wives of cheating husbands get suspicious because their H's patterns change. In my case they never did and probably in your case they didn't either. I know that my xMM has cheated before me (which I only found out recently) and always did it on the road. In fact, in the beginning of our A, we had agreed to only let it happen on the road. I would find excuses to travel with him or we would meet for a night an hour away from our town where I could still show up at work and he would just continue on to where he was headed. As the A wore on, we started meeting at my house which was only 5 minutes from work for a half an hour and then we would both go back to work (separately, of course). There is really no way that W could have known because we never met in the evenings or weekends.

 

I also know someone who is married and has quite a system worked out for cheating on his wife. He is friends with a bunch of other guys who also cheat on their wives. They all cover for each other. For example, my friend will go and get his friends car to go over to OW's house. He will tell W that he is meeting his friend for drinks. His friend will call W and ask if MM has left yet for their meeting. This completely throws W off track and makes her really think that MM is with his friend and not OW.

[child_of_isis]

Oh man...this is worthy of a thread of it's own.

 

I bet we could find out some interesting stuff.

 

I totally loved the reference to coming out of the "twilight zone". Living with someone who messes with your reality is like living in the twilight zone.

 

That is why I love this place. People try to pull one another out of that.

 

I am also interested in knowing the "tricks of the trade" so to speak; meaning I would LOVE to know what exactly OW and MM do to cover their tracks and keep things under wraps and hidden from the W and family...

 

[IpAncA]

I'm assuming you still have the tracker on the phone, you have the log on the compuer, he's is telling you where he's going, showing you, etc...right?

 

Sorry if I missed this but did you two ever get into counselling?

[outofdarkness]

keep in coming!!! I need to hear the stark reality so that I can continue to prepare and know what's going on...I DO know that 9 times out of 10 if you suspect something is up...IT IS!!! The stories that we're given do tend to be much more detailed if they are lies, I agre 100 percent w/ this. Also, they really DO tend to give more info when being dishonest...And..I wholeheartedly agree that the male species in general tend to cover for each other alot. The "old boys network is alive and well in my location" I have suspected before that he had other's cover for him...Heck, he could even meet up w/ OW at a bar, as he did last night, and have some random dude just yell "Hi" into the phone...I am worn down, hurt and very sick of games, but I DO NOT have my head in the sand any longer!! Thanks again for taking the time to repond...

 

Anyone else??? ood

[mopar crazy]

I really don't have any advice, I just wanted to say I hope this all turns out to be nothing. But I do have to agree to keep your eyes open like you have been doing. I'm sorry you are going through this. It's he!! Keep us posted!

 

P.S. I know what you mean about the dog hair. We have a Shepherd too and he is shedding awful right now.

[outofdarkness]

I'm assuming you still have the tracker on the phone, you have the log on the compuer, he's is telling you where he's going, showing you, etc...right?

 

Sorry if I missed this but did you two ever get into counselling?

Yep..do still have the tracker on his phone..I'm definately on top of it...the keylogger on the pc had to be uninstalled due to a complete nervous breakdown..on the comp's part that is...lol...he never used it anyway after he found out that's how I got his work e mail pwrd...Thanks for the post...

[IpAncA]

Yep..do still have the tracker on his phone..I'm definately on top of it...the keylogger on the pc had to be uninstalled due to a complete nervous breakdown..on the comp's part that is...lol...he never used it anyway after he found out that's how I got his work e mail pwrd...Thanks for the post...

Sure no problem. I was just wondering because it sounds like you have pretty good tabs on him.

 

I know your looking for evidence to see if he's still cheating but I think the phone idea might be a dead end for now. Seems like it would be hard for him to lie where he's going when he can be tracked. But like you said, anyone could have said hi on the phone.

 

How about having someone follow him around and see if he's keeping his word?

[outofdarkness]

Sure no problem. I was just wondering because it sounds like you have pretty good tabs on him.

 

I know your looking for evidence to see if he's still cheating but I think the phone idea might be a dead end for now. Seems like it would be hard for him to lie where he's going when he can be tracked. But like you said, anyone could have said hi on the phone.

 

How about having someone follow him around and see if he's keeping his word?

Yep..this is something I'm on top of as well...Thanks again for taking the time to post and advise...ood

[SoxPrincess]

OOD,

 

Have you considered a GPS device for his car? I really have no knowledge about how expensive they are or how easily hidden they are, but that could be another avenue for you since you no longer have a keylogger on the PC and if he catches on to the phone suspicions you are having. Also, have you ever thought about a PI? I know they can be quite expensive, but the money spent may be worth the piece of mind.

 

As a former OW, I can tell you the web of lies one creates to avoid be busted runs deep. When I would fly to see exMM, I would tell my H that I was going to visit family and I would spend 99% of my time with exMM and a day or so with family to cover my tracks. Then, of course, I would have to create lies about what I did while I was away, keep track of those lies, have people in my family cover for me, etc. It was exhausting and certainly nothing I am proud of. After I confessed to my H, he said he had an inkling about what was going on because my lies were so detailed..it was plainly obvious that I had spent quite a bit of time concocting lies and that he might have believed me more if things weren't so detailed. Also, once an A is discovered, if the A continues, those involved tend to go underground and create completely different lies, excuses and ways to communicate. My H took my cellphone away so I couldn't call exMM, so I bought a new one under my own name and kept it as my secret cell; I created new email accounts and made sure I had things set up on the computer to erase all my passwords, history..things like that. Most people won't stop this type of behavior and end the A (with 100%) NC until they hit rock bottom; like exposing the A to family and friends, exposing the A to co-workers or if the OP is married, exposing the A to that persons spouse.

 

I think you are taking the right steps and you're doing all that you can at the moment; as you said, the more evidence you gather, the better. If I can help in any other ways, please don't hesitate to ask or message me.

[outofdarkness]

OOD,

 

Have you considered a GPS device for his car? I really have no knowledge about how expensive they are or how easily hidden they are, but that could be another avenue for you since you no longer have a keylogger on the PC and if he catches on to the phone suspicions you are having. Also, have you ever thought about a PI? I know they can be quite expensive, but the money spent may be worth the piece of mind.

 

As a former OW, I can tell you the web of lies one creates to avoid be busted runs deep. When I would fly to see exMM, I would tell my H that I was going to visit family and I would spend 99% of my time with exMM and a day or so with family to cover my tracks. Then, of course, I would have to create lies about what I did while I was away, keep track of those lies, have people in my family cover for me, etc. It was exhausting and certainly nothing I am proud of. After I confessed to my H, he said he had an inkling about what was going on because my lies were so detailed..it was plainly obvious that I had spent quite a bit of time concocting lies and that he might have believed me more if things weren't so detailed. Also, once an A is discovered, if the A continues, those involved tend to go underground and create completely different lies, excuses and ways to communicate. My H took my cellphone away so I couldn't call exMM, so I bought a new one under my own name and kept it as my secret cell; I created new email accounts and made sure I had things set up on the computer to erase all my passwords, history..things like that. Most people won't stop this type of behavior and end the A (with 100%) NC until they hit rock bottom; like exposing the A to family and friends, exposing the A to co-workers or if the OP is married, exposing the A to that persons spouse.

 

I think you are taking the right steps and you're doing all that you can at the moment; as you said, the more evidence you gather, the better. If I can help in any other ways, please don't hesitate to ask or message me.

That's so sweet and kind of you...I really appreciate you taking the time to read the thread and reply...and for trying to help..The tips are very helpful and insightful to me! Thanks again! ood

[Cliche]

It is so hard to tell when people are lying. MM lied to me about living with his W. I don't know what set off my radar...well, probably that he wasn't very smooth about it. But one thing I thought I saw was that the told more detailed stories about where he lived when I asked questions than I thought necessary.

 

I then began to believe that anytime his level of detail got too much, it meant he was lying. After me accusing him of lying based on that several times, and then doing my own detective work to discover that he was being honest in those circumstances, I realized that there is simply no single indicator of dishonesty.

 

But I will say this, have faith in patterns of behavior. (((hugs)))

[justagirliegirl]

I have a different perspective. Have you ever thought if you have to spend this much time and effort to keep tabs on someone that maybe the relationship is just too much bother and not really worth it.

 

What is the purpose of keeping tabs him? To prevent him from cheating? If you have to do that your relationship is dead anyway. If someone wants to cheat, they will regardless of what you do.

 

Are you getting so much joy and happiness from this relationship that you can't bare to let him go?

[outofdarkness]

I have a different perspective. Have you ever thought if you have to spend this much time and effort to keep tabs on someone that maybe the relationship is just too much bother and not really worth it.

 

What is the purpose of keeping tabs him? To prevent him from cheating? If you have to do that your relationship is dead anyway. If someone wants to cheat, they will regardless of what you do.

 

Are you getting so much joy and happiness from this relationship that you can't bare to let him go?

I am not in a place right now where I can reply to a post w/ this sort of tone..I do appreciate you taking the time to read and post...and I will and have given thought to YOUR thoughts....ook

[sadbuttrue]

ood, i am sorry you are still dealing with all of this.

 

MM and i usually meet when he is supposed to be at work. we dont have to lie really. i have been with him when his W called. he justs talks to her like he would normally. we also take classes together and see each other there. she knows i am in some of his classes. he never leaves after he goes home to be with me. so i guess it would be hard for her to know anything was up.

 

we also dont call each other after hours so to speak. he has called me maybe twice in the last year after his work hours. i never call him when he is at home. we communicate a lot through email. he has to wait for her to be in the shower or asleep before he will email me from his house.

 

good luck ood, hope it turns out for the best.

[TiredOfWaiting]

I am not in a place right now where I can reply to a post w/ this sort of tone..I do appreciate you taking the time to read and post...and I will and have given thought to YOUR thoughts....ook

 

Out of darkness - what was your method of detective work? I'm very curious. I know some of you will say if you think MM is lying he probably is. And I dont' disagree. I do however have a very strong desire to bust his butt. It would in fact help me emotionally. I'd feel like I won this stupid game we're playing. Any suggestions?

[smartgirl]

OOD, I am usually the eternal optimist in these situations but if you have to spend this much time figuring out the truth and you have this much to be suspcious of I think you have to cut your loses and follow through on the divorce this time.

 

Your H is a sick man and needs help, but he will never take that seriously until he knows you mean business. You have to ask him to leave. Make appointments to see him and for him to see your son during the week. Join him in therapy if he will go. But get him out of the house and file for formal separation. NOW.

 

If you think your son isn't catching some of this you are mistaken. I have read so much about people who carried a lot of troubles into their adult relationships because of their father's cheating and the effect it had on their mother. The parents never realize how much the kids have picked up - consciously and unconsciously.

 

I am going to sound brutal, but I feel like I have to throw out a little tough love: You are an abused spouse. Emotionally abused. You take it and somewhere maybe you think you deserve it. You don't!!!! Please get help for yourself and get your son away from the destructive influence of this man.

 

You don't need us to tell you he is lying. You know it. I know the pain is horrible, but if you don't take action nothing is going to change.

[child_of_isis]

This is exactly how I feel about my situation.

 

But OOD is in a whole different place.

 

She is married, with children. She has to consider their future and financial aspects before a D. When dealing with legalities, she needs to have her ducks in a row or she could get wiped out.

 

Some men don't have a problem wiping out both the W and the children's future. I believe that she is dealing with this type of man.. (cough...sub-human?)

 

This is what this is all about. I think she is beyond trying to save the M.

 

I have a different perspective. Have you ever thought if you have to spend this much time and effort to keep tabs on someone that maybe the relationship is just too much bother and not really worth it.

 

What is the purpose of keeping tabs him? To prevent him from cheating? If you have to do that your relationship is dead anyway. If someone wants to cheat, they will regardless of what you do.

 

Are you getting so much joy and happiness from this relationship that you can't bare to let him go?

[outofdarkness]

Out of darkness - what was your method of detective work? I'm very curious. I know some of you will say if you think MM is lying he probably is. And I dont' disagree. I do however have a very strong desire to bust his butt. It would in fact help me emotionally. I'd feel like I won this stupid game we're playing. Any suggestions?

follow him in a borrowed car or rented one, check his cell phone stmts if you have access, do a background check on him...You can do this relatively inexpensively online, watch his behavior closely...If you see any changes such as suddenly working out when he didn't before, buying new clothes, more frequent hair cuts, sneaking out or leaving suddenly w/ out telling anyone; ie, you or the kids, giving you TOO many details about his schedule and whereabouts, asking YOU for too many details about YOUR schedule, lack of attention and/or disinterest in family activities such as vacations, and home maintenance....He isn't going to want to do anything that indicates that he wants a future w/ YOU and doing these things would be indicative of that...Check the mileage on his car and jot it down...Check it at the end of the day and if it doesn't jive w/ his usual driving habits, something might be amiss. If the passenger seat is in a different position then it was the last time you sat in it and you are not aware that he's had anyone ELSE in the car, something could be up. Check for lipstick on his collar or underwear! Give him a hug to welcome him home from work..Does he smell of perfume or smoke and doesn't smoke himself? Use a lint rollar and see what comes off of his clothes at the end of the day...Do you have blonde hair and YOU have dark hair? Do you see cat or dog hair, yet have no pets? Is there any sand in his pockets and you don't live on the beach? Does he travel for his work and comes home w/ a suntan, yet the trip was for business and there was no golfing involved? Does he suddenly change inteneraries on you at the last minute, such as calling you when he arrives at his destination only to say that the hotel doesn't have him listed, and he had to go to another? This could mean that he's afraid that you might just show up unannounced and he wants to throw you off his trail..Does he suddenly want to do his own laundry and has never even put anything in the hamper let alone work the washer? Does he tell you he's going on a business trip and pack a pair of shorts and izod? What's on the bottom of his shoes and socks? Use the lint rollar..Someone told me that socks give you a wealth of info..Havn't tried this one yet, but it makes sense. Do you get alot of hang up calls on your home phone? Trace them...You can do this for free on the internet...If you have *69 on your phone, you can see what the last incoming call was, and you can also push redial to see what # was last called. Do this first thing in the morning and right before bed, as this is usually when MM and OW communicate...There ARE exceptions, especially if MM has been caught before, but generally, they will want to talk at these times...Are your old friends or your H's coworkers acting strangly around you? They could very well know and feel awkward around you...Most people don't know what to say in this situation...Has he recently taken up a hobby that requires long periods away from home like learning to fly or golf and has never even expressed an interest in these things before? This could mean that he's trying new things w/ OW and/or he just needs an excuse to be away from home. Does he pick fights w/ you and then leave the house? This is a common way for MM to have an excuse to leave..Then they can whine to OW about how bad the M is and what a witch you are. If you have kids, is there a teacher or school administrator that acts funny around you? Many A's are with someone that is close to you and the family..like a neighbor, teacher, heck even your banker...Speaking of banking, do you handle the finances? If not, start! Do you see large atm w/drawals without receipts and from locations that do not make sense given where he works and you all live? Is he behaving like a total jack A-- and you can't figure out what in the world you've done wrong? Has sex either increased or decreased suddenly from what it normally is? Have you noticed a "difference" in sex? Does he call you another name by accident? Does he not remember things or insist that he told you something that you KNOW he didn't tell you? This could mean that he's telling OW things too and can't remember who he's said what to...Is his family behaving oddly towards you? Many times the MM's family actually knows of the A and covers for him..This goes for buddies of his too..Guys cover for one another alot..EVEN if they are YOUR friend too.Has he suddenly started talking about a new hire at work? This could be an office A...They are VERY common, as coworkers spend alot of time together..I once received a call from one of my H's secretaries asking me if I would please ask my H to give her a wake up call b/c her power had gone out! Inappropriate at the very least, probrably more....Does he suddenly log off if you come in the room when he's on the computer? Is he guarded about his e mail accounts; ie, passwords, unknown and secret accounts..There are LOTS of free e mail accounts available out there. Have you suddenly started to get alot of spam or emails about products such as via---? Get a keylogger program for your comp...you'll get a wealth of info...Google keylogger to get info on the best programs...check the history and cookies on your computer...You can get lots of info from these two things, and it doesn't cost anything...Many times, the MM get lazy and forget to erase these things...Does an instant message window suddenly pop up when you log on to your comp and you don't have IM or use it? If not, then it's most likely his...Sorry this is so long, but I get excited when asked about this b/c I'm good at it..I've even done it on the side for a small fee for friends...Hope it helps...

[outofdarkness]

OOD, I am usually the eternal optimist in these situations but if you have to spend this much time figuring out the truth and you have this much to be suspcious of I think you have to cut your loses and follow through on the divorce this time.

 

Your H is a sick man and needs help, but he will never take that seriously until he knows you mean business. You have to ask him to leave. Make appointments to see him and for him to see your son during the week. Join him in therapy if he will go. But get him out of the house and file for formal separation. NOW.

 

If you think your son isn't catching some of this you are mistaken. I have read so much about people who carried a lot of troubles into their adult relationships because of their father's cheating and the effect it had on their mother. The parents never realize how much the kids have picked up - consciously and unconsciously.

 

I am going to sound brutal, but I feel like I have to throw out a little tough love: You are an abused spouse. Emotionally abused. You take it and somewhere maybe you think you deserve it. You don't!!!! Please get help for yourself and get your son away from the destructive influence of this man.

 

You don't need us to tell you he is lying. You know it. I know the pain is horrible, but if you don't take action nothing is going to change.

Thanks for the post...I did file for D 2.5 years ago and we have been in MC on and off for years..Yes, I am well aware of the abuse thing...It's been going on for years..Mabey I need to go to THAT forum too...I can't leave right now...but I CAN try to take care of myself and our children...Rest assured, I AM doing that to the best of my abilility right now...Thanks for the post..I appreciate you taking the time!