Raised well - went wrong

[Suede O'Nim]

I cheat on my wife because I want sex. I've always been very sexual and all the movies and discussions I've been part of made it plain that at various random moments women want sex, but mainly they do it because they're with a guy who wants it. So I was nearly 18 before I had sex with the first girl I was really serious about. She chased me, had to break through my inhibitions, and released the floodgates to passion. For a couple of months sex was almost a nightly thing and then it changed for no discernable reason and sex became a rare thing. It didn't seem odd or unfair to me, just unwelcome. I'm the worst kind of scum when it comes to sex, there's almost no woman I wouldn't have sex with. Fortunately, I was raised knowing all of this was wrong and I was too afraid to be found out to cheat. My girlfriend became my wife. Unfortunately, my wife's best friend came on to me during a party about 10 years later and I pursued the opportunity. We discussed our mutual attraction, agreed that neither of us was willing to leave our spouses, for different reasons, and proceeded to have a physical relationship. I was simultaneously elated at having the kind of physical relationship I didn't have with my wife and terrified that I'd be caught. Again, the physical died down rather quickly, but the aftereffect of realizing that I didn't really believe in the values I'd been trying to adhere to for 30 years left me with only a prime directive: sex. I've given up wondering why men want sex so much more than women do. Men are willing to risk the emotional repercussions on women because the drive for sex is so strong. Society dictates that those effects are more immoral than any effects on a man that denying his physical urges has. There is no reverse situation for women. Perhaps if it was socially unacceptable for a woman to display any emotion other than to her husband we might have a similar situation, but since that doesn't exist we don't.

 

I'm not right. I'm wrong. I just don't care any more. After almost 20 years of marriage, three children, and an average of 7 or 8 sexual encounters per year I realize I just don't love my wife any more. I thought it was supposed to be this way. Married people just don't have sex much. I didn't know it would become unacceptable to me. After a couple years of marriage and a child already added to our family I thought our love and occasional sex would be fine. Even during the affair I expected to stay with my wife forever which is why it was one of the ground rules with the OW. Only after the affair evaporated and in the last couple of years have I realized that my emotions are tied to this physical part of my marriage. I brought up the subject to my wife on a number of occasions and she listens and then changes the subject. It really hurt at first, but I understand that she's just the way she is and I'm the way I am. I've started positioning myself for a break-up eventually: separate bank account, mailing address, figuring out what alimony and child support would be and where I could afford to live. I'm probably too cowardly to actually go through with it, though. My wife is happy though sometimes annoyed at my moodiness. The kids are happy.

 

So, my debate is do I throw away a nearly perfect life: wife who loves me, kids who still want me around, held in high esteem with my neighbors, even an ex-lover who is willing to be a good friend, throw it away because I feel like I want more sex than I'm getting? I don't even have a good excuse like I'm in love with someone else. I don't even think I'd ever feel like I had enough sex even if I found another partner based on my thoughts and feelings over the last 20 years so I'd be throwing it away with the expectation that I'd never have it as good again as I do right now. If women and men had the same emotional and physical urges then this couldn't be an issue, but we don't.

 

The most likely scenario is that I'll stay in this situation because it's easiest. If I had an OW it would be even less likely that I'd leave my wife because I'd have the one thing that was lacking in my life. I still consider myself a current cheater because I know I'd do it if I had the chance. I used to be more miserable about this. In the last couple of months I've started going more numb emotionally. I can still function fine, but smile a lot less. Whoops. Tapped too far into this subject and started to get a little sad there. I have no real point to this I guess I just wanted to vent. Since I'm not going to find a real-life person to talk to I guess I wanted to do so anonymously. I'm obviously not trying to change anyone's mind about what bastards men can be and I'm not trying to say men should be given a pass because they're by nature more sexual. I guess all I'm saying is that if you have a man who's willing to be faithful then you're already ahead of the game.

[whichwayisup]

Have you gone to marriage counselling with your wife? Have you told her you're unhappy and that she isn't meeting your needs? Also, are you fulfilling needs? Emotionally too? See, she isn't going to give you sex if you don't meet her emotional needs.

 

Is screwing around on her worth losing her? 20 years of marriage is alot to give up for some hot sex with other women. Let alone her bestfriend, that's just disguisting and wrong of BOTH of you. It's double betrayal!

 

You need to talk to your wife. You say she doesn't love you (because she doesn't have alot of sex with you) but then you say she does love you...

Anyway, if she isn't listening to her, MAKE HER LISTEN. MAKE her understand that you are unhappy, that she needs to try to put in effort too.

[Suede O'Nim]

First of all, I never said she didn't love me. I sometimes doubt it because there are real things she could be doing to address what she says are the issues regarding her sex drive and she chooses not to do those things, but I honestly believe she loves me. I've ask about her needs and she assures me I'm doing everything right except for not remembering all of our obligations as well as she does which stresses her out. I tried the counseling thing, but she has a distrust of therapists and all because she just doesn't believe they are effective, but I got really pushy and enrolled us in a program anyway which only made her cry for days until I didn't want to make her miserable any more and pulled us out.

 

Second, I'm under no illusion that my feelings are moral. Am I willing to throw it away? Yes, quite possibly. What would you do if you could remember what love felt like, but couldn't find it any more and every day was a series of going through the motions? More realistically, though, I'll stay here. I'm the only one unhappy here. I won't be happy if I leave and then everyone will be unhappy. So, I'll stay and I can fool everyone else into believing that everything is the same, but I don't have to lie to myself.

 

Finally, how can you make someone feel an emotion or urge? Can I force you to love me? Or to be happy? Or anything? If I could force her to act as if she feels something, would I want that? When someone does something only because you told them to, do you feel satisfied? I don't resent you for the condemnation. I earned it. You're just not thinking things through.

 

Have you gone to marriage counselling with your wife? Have you told her you're unhappy and that she isn't meeting your needs? Also, are you fulfilling needs? Emotionally too? See, she isn't going to give you sex if you don't meet her emotional needs.

 

Is screwing around on her worth losing her? 20 years of marriage is alot to give up for some hot sex with other women. Let alone her bestfriend, that's just disguisting and wrong of BOTH of you. It's double betrayal!

 

You need to talk to your wife. You say she doesn't love you (because she doesn't have alot of sex with you) but then you say she does love you...

Anyway, if she isn't listening to her, MAKE HER LISTEN. MAKE her understand that you are unhappy, that she needs to try to put in effort too.

[Tomcat33]

If what you described is having a nearly perfect life, I will make it my personal goal to NEVER aspire to have a nearly perfect life.

 

I think you are living a lie and I hate to be the one to point this out to you but all this admiration that you are receiving from your family and "neighbours" based on your OTHER you, is displaced. You are kidding yourself if you think people admire YOU. They admire who you portray to be but who you really are no one knows.

 

I would advice you to take the leap and become single, you can have ALL the sex you want and have no one to report to. But you know all too well that's not going to happen because just as you are, you are getting the best of both worlds. On the other hand I would also advice you to tell your W about all your flings and let her make the decision for you, but sometimes even that can backfire since she may just want to work on it with you which would force to also work at keeping her happy and winning her trust back.

 

It seems you are living the true definition of a tormented life. Have you thought about seeking professional help to get to the root of your problem? I would hazzard to guess it is less about "men's deep need for sexual variety" and more about some other deep seated issue you are not even aware of. Unless you can understand it for what it is, it will torment you and confuse you.

 

IThere is no reverse situation for women. Perhaps if it was socially unacceptable for a woman to display any emotion other than to her husband we might have a similar situation, but since that doesn't exist we don't. If women and men had the same emotional and physical urges then this couldn't be an issue, but we don't.

 

That's a good analogy in the sense that I can see the parallels you are trying to draw, however I think that you are mixing apples and oranges.

I also think that you are basing your conclusions on preconceived notions, and even myths. Yes women tend to have an easier time keeping their sexual urges in check perhaps in comparisson to men but we are all equiped with emotions in order to control our animal urges. The very thing that you think would put women on the same plane as men if we had to keep in check, is the very thing we as humans were given to differentiate ourselves from animals. Your animal urges are to be controlled by your emotions but unless you can understand the "emotion" behind this great urgency to fornicate with as many women as possible, you are right you prob won't change and have no real reason to change it until you are caught red handed. This is why I recommended therapy.

 

What I think would benefit you is to understand yourself better, not more sex at this point. If after therapy you still conclude it was solely about sex all along then at least you made an attempt at understanding why you are the way you are. But agreeing to therapy could also mean agreeing to let go of certain "philosophies" you have chosen for your self. Would you be for that?

 

 

I can appreciate that "great" sex can dissipate over time in a marriage or long term rel. but it doesn't have to. Now if you are talking about people who find that their sexual appetite is completely incompatible, well usually you can see that in the dating stages pre-marriage. If your sexual appetite is not matching at this point it could very well be for the lack of emotional connection you share with your W.

 

So you see taking care of your emotional self is more important than you care to let on.

[Tomcat33]

Anyway, if she isn't listening to her, MAKE HER LISTEN. MAKE her understand that you are unhappy, that she needs to try to put in effort too.

 

 

Gees WWIU you CAN'T MAKE people do things, people have to do things because they want to, because they need to. The only thing SUEDE ONIM cam MAKE is himself do something.

 

Change can only happen if one starts from square 1!!!

[IpAncA]

First off I would tell your W whats going on. Second get into IC. Third stop seeking outside.

 

The problem I'm seeing is say you and your W got the sex rolling, once that stops I belive you'll cheat again. You can't be doing that in a committed relationship.

 

Does your W know this?

 

I just don't love my wife any more. I thought it was supposed to be this way.

 

What is? Not loving your W and the sex stopping? Um, no that's not what it's all about.

[OpenBook]

God, I wonder how many other MM's feel the same way you do. I'll bet there's a lot of them out there.

 

You know what I wish for you - that you could talk OTHER MEN who are also in the same boat. Preferably older men than you, who've been married a long, long time. As they look back on their lives, what (if anything) do they regret? the fact that that they stayed? (was it worth it?) that they strayed? (or didn't?) It would be so interesting to see what advice they give you.

 

And I don't think you're scum for wanting sex. I believe that one of the ONLY emotional outlets men have is thru sex. It's "proof" to them that their partner loves them. In the absence of it, they feel unloved. Women are totally different in that regard. And I have no answers whatsoever on how to bridge that gap.

 

I just want to simply thank you, Suede, for having the courage to post this. I hope you find the answers you're seeking.

[Zoomarch]

I cheat on my wife because I want sex. I've always been very sexual and all the movies and discussions I've been part of made it plain that at various random moments women want sex, but mainly they do it because they're with a guy who wants it. So I was nearly 18 before I had sex with the first girl I was really serious about. She chased me, had to break through my inhibitions, and released the floodgates to passion. For a couple of months sex was almost a nightly thing and then it changed for no discernable reason and sex became a rare thing. It didn't seem odd or unfair to me, just unwelcome. I'm the worst kind of scum when it comes to sex, there's almost no woman I wouldn't have sex with. Fortunately, I was raised knowing all of this was wrong and I was too afraid to be found out to cheat. My girlfriend became my wife. Unfortunately, my wife's best friend came on to me during a party about 10 years later and I pursued the opportunity. We discussed our mutual attraction, agreed that neither of us was willing to leave our spouses, for different reasons, and proceeded to have a physical relationship. I was simultaneously elated at having the kind of physical relationship I didn't have with my wife and terrified that I'd be caught. Again, the physical died down rather quickly, but the aftereffect of realizing that I didn't really believe in the values I'd been trying to adhere to for 30 years left me with only a prime directive: sex. I've given up wondering why men want sex so much more than women do. Men are willing to risk the emotional repercussions on women because the drive for sex is so strong. Society dictates that those effects are more immoral than any effects on a man that denying his physical urges has. There is no reverse situation for women. Perhaps if it was socially unacceptable for a woman to display any emotion other than to her husband we might have a similar situation, but since that doesn't exist we don't.

 

I'm not right. I'm wrong. I just don't care any more. After almost 20 years of marriage, three children, and an average of 7 or 8 sexual encounters per year I realize I just don't love my wife any more. I thought it was supposed to be this way. Married people just don't have sex much. I didn't know it would become unacceptable to me. After a couple years of marriage and a child already added to our family I thought our love and occasional sex would be fine. Even during the affair I expected to stay with my wife forever which is why it was one of the ground rules with the OW. Only after the affair evaporated and in the last couple of years have I realized that my emotions are tied to this physical part of my marriage. I brought up the subject to my wife on a number of occasions and she listens and then changes the subject. It really hurt at first, but I understand that she's just the way she is and I'm the way I am. I've started positioning myself for a break-up eventually: separate bank account, mailing address, figuring out what alimony and child support would be and where I could afford to live. I'm probably too cowardly to actually go through with it, though. My wife is happy though sometimes annoyed at my moodiness. The kids are happy.

 

So, my debate is do I throw away a nearly perfect life: wife who loves me, kids who still want me around, held in high esteem with my neighbors, even an ex-lover who is willing to be a good friend, throw it away because I feel like I want more sex than I'm getting? I don't even have a good excuse like I'm in love with someone else. I don't even think I'd ever feel like I had enough sex even if I found another partner based on my thoughts and feelings over the last 20 years so I'd be throwing it away with the expectation that I'd never have it as good again as I do right now. If women and men had the same emotional and physical urges then this couldn't be an issue, but we don't.

 

The most likely scenario is that I'll stay in this situation because it's easiest. If I had an OW it would be even less likely that I'd leave my wife because I'd have the one thing that was lacking in my life. I still consider myself a current cheater because I know I'd do it if I had the chance. I used to be more miserable about this. In the last couple of months I've started going more numb emotionally. I can still function fine, but smile a lot less. Whoops. Tapped too far into this subject and started to get a little sad there. I have no real point to this I guess I just wanted to vent. Since I'm not going to find a real-life person to talk to I guess I wanted to do so anonymously. I'm obviously not trying to change anyone's mind about what bastards men can be and I'm not trying to say men should be given a pass because they're by nature more sexual. I guess all I'm saying is that if you have a man who's willing to be faithful then you're already ahead of the game.

 

Thanks for the insight, although I'm sure you'll get a lot of heat, it won't be from me. I like to hear things like this because it reminds me that it exists and makes me wonder if the OM I allowed into my life this way, might feel the same. I loved your quote above "If I had an OW it would be even less likely that I'd leave my wife because I'd have the one thing that was lacking in my life." I find that interesting and feel like maybe that's why most people don't leave their spouses in a cheating situation.

 

I'm not going to judge you as I'm not in your head. I would have judged you two years ago, but not now.

[Suede O'Nim]

I think you are living a lie and I hate to be the one to point this out to you but all this admiration that you are receiving from your family and "neighbours" based on your OTHER you, is displaced. You are kidding yourself if you think people admire YOU. They admire who you portray to be but who you really are no one knows.

 

Quite right, but I live by the philosophy that what you feel isn't as important as what you do. It kept me on the right path for the first 20 years and faithful for the next 10.

 

I would advice you to take the leap and become single, you can have ALL the sex you want and have no one to report to.

 

I assume that was sardonic as we both know that the majority of singles have sex rarely. Let's add a divorce and some kids to the mix just to make it less palatable for any potential partner. Your suggestion to break up assures the worst of both worlds. Besides, I'm never going to tell my wife about my infidelity. I can't imagine anything good coming from that.

 

Early in our relationship she told me that if I ever felt like I would cheat if she didn't do some particular sex act that she didn't want to do that I should tell her because she'd probably do it rather than having me cheat on her. I didn't do that, but I told her that our lack of sex could drive me to cheat on her. I also told her when I found someone we knew attractive. I was afraid of her reaction, but I figured it was the only way I could get her to see how serious this was. She was pissed and said I couldn't cheat, but nothing changed.

 

It seems you are living the true definition of a tormented life. Have you thought about seeking professional help to get to the root of your problem? I would hazzard to guess it is less about "men's deep need for sexual variety" and more about some other deep seated issue you are not even aware of. Unless you can understand it for what it is, it will torment you and confuse you.

 

No, I think I pretty well understand it. Yes, I was molested as a kid, but it's not an issue for me. I dealt with it long ago. I enjoyed it at the time, but I don't feel guilty about it because I was a kid and wasn't responsible for what my babysitter did. It sexualized me early, but I never used it as an excuse for anything else. I've talked about everything in my life and understand my reactions at the time and afterwards. I'll probably take the plunge and go to therapy at some point, but I've dealt with my demons. I think it's naive to assign motives to some hidden hand of the past. I know why I am the way I am.

 

Yes women tend to have an easier time keeping their sexual urges in check perhaps in comparisson to men but we are all equiped with emotions in order to control our animal urges.

 

That's like saying our emotions allow us to control our thirst or hunger. We do have control, but that doesn't give us absolute control as a general rule and different people have different levels of control. Otherwise, everyone could be celibate. I honestly believe that women tend to discount men's sex drives, too, simply because they cannot understand it. Even among men the drives varies in intensity. I agree that women understanding men's urges is an apples and oranges situation. There is no proper analogy.

 

But agreeing to therapy could also mean agreeing to let go of certain "philosophies" you have chosen for your self. Would you be for that?

 

There's the rub, if I may be pardoned for the phrase in a discussion of sex. Could I change my belief in what all of my decades of life has told me is true? Would it matter? Let's say that after a year of therapy I still feel the same way. Does that mean that cheating would now be moral because I'd done the homework and realized, yes, I am that sexual? No, of course not. So, I'm not saying that I won't enroll in therapy. I'm just saying that I already acknowledge the immorality of my position. So, what will therapy accomplish?

[Lizzie60]

Men are willing to risk the emotional repercussions on women because the drive for sex is so strong.

 

What most MM are living actually... I do believe that most men cheat because men have a stronger sex drive... and they have it easy and in a way I can't blame them...

[Suede O'Nim]

What is? Not loving your W and the sex stopping? Um, no that's not what it's all about.

 

Not that I believe you actually read my statement the way you just characterized it, but I thought I'd clarify. My wife doesn't have sex with me as much as I want to. I thought that was the way things were in every marriage so mine wasn't different in this regard. I also thought men just dealt with it and time would lower the sexual urge to make that possible. I've found it's not true. The one thing that truly surprised me was that my love for my wife is tied to my physical relationship with her. I thought love was a separate issue based on purely emotional needs. It never occurred to me that the lack of sex could actually affect the feelings of love I had for my wife.

[Lizzie60]

the same story sooo many times...

 

You're the typical MM... except for one thing, IMO... that some of the MMs actually love their wives they just want more sex...

[IpAncA]

Not that I believe you actually read my statement the way you just characterized it' date=' but I thought I'd clarify. My wife doesn't have sex with me as much as I want to. I thought that was the way things were in every marriage so mine wasn't different in this regard. I also thought men just dealt with it and time would lower the sexual urge to make that possible.[/quote']

 

Your right, it's not true.

 

I've found it's not true. The one thing that truly surprised me was that my love for my wife is tied to my physical relationship with her. I thought love was a separate issue based on purely emotional needs. It never occurred to me that the lack of sex could actually affect the feelings of love I had for my wife.

 

And your not the first person who's said this.

[Suede O'Nim]

I just want to simply thank you, Suede, for having the courage to post this. I hope you find the answers you're seeking.

 

That was unexpected. I didn't expect anything but vitriol. I've had all this swirling around and found a place I could vent and hide at the same time. I didn't think anyone else would understand it, but I'm glad you found something worth listening to.

[Tomcat33]

Quite right' date=' but I live by the philosophy that what you feel isn't as important as what you do. It kept me on the right path for the first 20 years and faithful for the next 10. [/quote']

 

Well that's the issue right there if you pay no mind to your feelings how could you possibly take any accountability for your actions? You might as well be a little puppy.

 

 

I assume that was sardonic as we both know that the majority of singles have sex rarely. Let's add a divorce and some kids to the mix just to make it less palatable for any potential partner. Your suggestion to break up assures the worst of both worlds. Besides, I'm never going to tell my wife about my infidelity. I can't imagine anything good coming from that.

 

 

No no sarcasm at all. So let me get this straight according to your theory being divorced and single you will not have any sexual opportunities, but being married you can have as much sex as you want? given the pattern you have made for yourself over the past years!?!? May I ask what it is you use to lure these women to sleep with you? Certainly you don't use the old "I'm married and just want a fling" line to get women to sleep with you now do you? If you do you could just as easily use that line as a single guy, nothing would change for you essentially now would it? Except of course you would stop leading a double life.

 

Which brings me to my next point. Perhaps your attarction to being unfaithful is less about the actual sex and more about doing something that is deemed as "socially and morally wrong"

given that you were sexually abused a child and confessed here that you somewhat enjoyed it at the time, it would appear your psyche is making the same kind of association with these sexual affairs or flings as what the abuse evoked for you as a child.

 

 

No, I think I pretty well understand it. Yes, I was molested as a kid, but it's not an issue for me. I dealt with it long ago. I enjoyed it at the time, but I don't feel guilty about it because I was a kid and wasn't responsible for what my babysitter did.

 

Perhaps you think you've dealt with it but really haven't

 

 

That's like saying our emotions allow us to control our thirst or hunger. We do have control, but that doesn't give us absolute control as a general rule and different people have different levels of control. Otherwise, everyone could be celibate. I honestly believe that women tend to discount men's sex drives, too, simply because they cannot understand it. Even among men the drives varies in intensity. I agree that women understanding men's urges is an apples and oranges situation. There is no proper analogy.

 

 

Our emotions DO control our thitst and hunger, in some people the emotions take over the physiological needs in a pathological way creating obesity or anorexia or all sorts of eating disorders.

Point being we are all equiped with emotions to deal with our physiological urges but some of us let our emotions take over and control those urges in a way that is distructive to our well being to our lives.

 

I am not disputing the discrepancies that exist in sexual appetites from person to person. At some point you and your wife had sexual apetites that were in synch correct? I hope your sexlife was not three times or each time one of your children were conceived

So if at some point you had a sexual flow that flow can deteriorate over time. If what you are describing is a total lack of sexual attraction towards your W then maybe it is time to hang up the H loafer and trade them in for a hot pair of Addiddas. LOL you get my point...

 

 

So, I'm not saying that I won't enroll in therapy. I'm just saying that I already acknowledge the immorality of my position. So, what will therapy accomplish?

 

I am not talking about morality and if there is ONE thing I will never do is judge you on your moral inclinations, I think morality is personal, I don't believe it telling people what they should adopt as moral. Right and wrong is totally subjective. However right and wrong take on a whole new meaning when we not only hurt ourselves but those that we love.

 

I think therapy for YOU might let you get to the root of why you feel you nee sex outside of your marriage and have convinced yourself that sex as a singel guy is

A) not attainable after a divorce and familiy payments

b) why you think living on your own would mean you will be even more unhappy than you are now.

 

I think that would be a good place to start in therapy, the rest should unfold on its own.

[IpAncA]

I think that would be a good place to start in therapy, the rest should unfold on its own.

 

Yep I agree.

[Suede O'Nim]

the same story sooo many times...

 

You're the typical MM... except for one thing, IMO... that some of the MMs actually love their wives they just want more sex...

 

I loved my wife. I only recognized that it was fading a couple years ago. So, I used to be what you described when I started cheating on my wife about 7 years ago. I thought I could have my family life on the one hand and just supplement what I was missing on the other hand (I'd already tried using that hand in other ways to supplement what was missing).

 

I can't really say I was ever faithful even before I cheated because I knew the potential was there. The debate I had with myself was, did I actually love my wife? Aren't you supposed to put the other person's feelings paramount when you're in love? I've always been selfish so I knew that either I couldn't love or I actually did love her, as my emotions suggested, but I just had an animal nature that I was suppressing through luck and social conditioning.

 

The only thing I feel angry about is that there is nothing out there telling anyone that sex is tied to love. It's all, "the physical is an expression of the emotional". I don't know how to convince anyone else, but I know my wife loves me and yet she doesn't have that physical expression. There's plenty of discussion about varying sex drives so I was able to accept that.

 

However, there is no saying like "you can be in love, not have sex, and then not feel like you're in love any more". That's always reserved for discussions of lust. So, if I could accept that my lust would not be sated, but I could still love my wife, how could I expect that love would fade if that situation existed for a long period? No one said, "Yeah, the first few years you can deal with it, but then you just don't love her any more".

 

So, I'm saying it. No one told me sex was necessary. They say it's important. What does that mean? What about it is important? How much is important? How important is it? When you have varying sex drives, but you love each other do you just throw in the towel because one person might not love the other further down the road? Who says that? No, on second thought it doesn't seem logical or it would be discussed more. It's more likely to be me and my urges that some common occurrance. So, that's what I'm owning up to. It's me. I'm wrong, but that's the way it is.

[ridingthebulls]

This whole thing is pretty sad. Good grief, stop living a facade and get a divorce. Nobody is perfect. Stop trying to live up to an image that doesn't exist.

[Tomcat33]

Sex IS necessary it's not just "important" it's fundamental.

 

Heard the old line "Love without admiration is just friendship"?

well friendship is plutonic unconditional "type" love....really how many marriages aspire to achieve unconditional love? Why WOULD you want to have unconditional love? If your partner could DO no wrong, which is essentially what unconditional love is, how can there be any kind of passion or sexual charge?

[Suede O'Nim]

I think therapy for YOU might let you get to the root of why you feel you nee sex outside of your marriage and have convinced yourself that sex as a singel guy is

A) not attainable after a divorce and familiy payments

b) why you think living on your own would mean you will be even more unhappy than you are now.

 

I think that would be a good place to start in therapy, the rest should unfold on its own.

 

Just a quick reply because I have to go home and help my wife prepare for the Girl Scout campout this weekend. Yeah, I threw that in there to prove I'm not unavailable or unsupportive.

 

I know sex is attainable as a single guy. You implied that I could have more sex as a single guy than as a married guy. I don't think that's true.

 

How could breaking up the whole family for such a frivolous reason not make me more unhappy? See my kids on weekends instead of all the time? Be a limited part in their activites because I'm not in the same house? Sit around wondering if what I did was right while debating if I've screwed them up by blowing up the family?

 

Here's a therapy topic. I already lived through that as the kid. I swore I wouldn't do that to my kids. Of course, that was 20 years ago and I had no concept of the emotions, or lack thereof, that I might experience at this point. It was nearly 15 years after my parents divorce before I knew that my dad had cheated on my mom and that she still carried the pain of that with her.

 

It may sound simple to talk about staying together for the kids or divorcing because you're actually hurting yourself more to stay in the marriage. Those are facile arguments that have to be weighed with the actual situation. I don't get enough sex. That doesn't really cut the mustard, you know? So, why don't I just stay faithful? The same reason why people can't stick to a diet even though their weight is killing them. They lack that control. It's wrong that I don't have it and it's just my responsibility. But, you know, actually talking about this is making me more apt to try therapy if for no other reason than to know whether or not it can or would help. Sure, it's a crapload of money and time to throw away if it doesn't work, but at least I'll know I've tried everything.

[LucreziaBorgia]

I wonder how different things would be if your wife knew what you were thinking, and I mean really knew. If she were to read this thread, what do you think would change? On some level, do you wish she would read this?

[Lizzie60]

How could breaking up the whole family for such a frivolous reason not make me more unhappy? See my kids on weekends instead of all the time? Be a limited part in their activites because I'm not in the same house? Sit around wondering if what I did was right while debating if I've screwed them up by blowing up the family?

 

I totally agree with you... why break a family when only one thing is missing...

 

What's more important : SEX... or being with your family, with your kids every night... make eryone happy, support them, enjoy them.

 

I think that, if I was a guy, and I could have an affair, and being extremely careful and discreet about it...when the only thing going wrong with my wife is sex, then I would... definitely...I wouldn't ruin the whole family's security and happiness just for that.

 

What you just described in your previous posts... I hear that on a daily basis... so you're not the only one thinking like that... there are tons of MMs who think exactly like you.

 

Therapy, IMO, is not the answer... I've been in therapy for years... and most therapists don't know what they're doing... anyone can be a therapist...you just need a degree...

[whichwayisup]

I think that, if I was a guy, and I could have an affair, and being extremely careful and discreet about it...when the only thing going wrong with my wife is sex, then I would... definitely...I wouldn't ruin the whole family's security and happiness just for that.

 

Then why not just come out and say that he is having casual sex with someone else? Make it an open marriage and allow her to decide if that's okay or not.

 

Therapy works for those who are willing to put in the time, effort and do all the changes necessary to get better. It isn't easy at all, and what one puts into therapy is what one gets out of it.

[doiask42much]

To echo Lizzie, your situation is far from unique and if you spend more time here you'll probably see tons of others struggling with what you are. There are tons of infidelity threads.

 

Is the amount of sex you would need a crazy amount that your wife would be incapable of fulfilling? You (and she) can't compromise at all? It doesn't sound like she has been trying too hard. If she could give you "enough" sex, would you still need other partners?

 

Many women, too, have a high sex drive and, if anything, thrive on novelty and illicit passion even more than men do. I read that they now cheat just as much as men. I don't think men and women are as different as you're making them out to be. Sure, men tend to be more physical, but many are physical AND emotional as well, just as many women can be. I have known of many women who love sex but don't want intimacy and men who are more emotional than some women.

 

The only thing I feel angry about is that there is nothing out there telling anyone that sex is tied to love. It's all, "the physical is an expression of the emotional".

 

However, there is no saying like "you can be in love, not have sex, and then not feel like you're in love any more". That's always reserved for discussions of lust.

 

I think many would also agree that sex is a necessary component of love, and I'm sure it's been said somewhere out there by someone. It's kind of an obvious thing to me that almost doesn't need to be said. I would feel extremely unloved if my SO wouldn't have sex with me. In fact, that happened, and I cheated on him because of it, even though I still loved him. Over time, though, I fell out of love with him as a result.

 

At least you did try to control your urges and when you failed, you did not make excuses for them. Many don't do even that. I am glad you are considering therapy. I do think your marriage sounds like it's worth fixing, not that I'm any kind of expert or anything.

[Tomcat33]

They lack that control. It's wrong that I don't have it and it's just my responsibility. But' date=' you know, actually talking about this is making me more apt to try therapy if for no other reason than to know whether or not it can or would help. Sure, it's a crapload of money and time to throw away if it doesn't work, but at least I'll know I've tried everything.[/quote']

 

Well that's really good!! It's good to know that talking about it makes you feel a little bit more open to exploring the "why's" of your problem!

So you're not a puppy afterall you do have use of emotions

 

As per your "lack of control" comment it reminded me of a line my good friend said to me one time as we were discussing her very poor eating habbits she said "Oh I have TONS of will power, I just have to use it!"

I still laugh when I think of that line LOL brilliantly simple!

 

All kidding aside I suggested to her that if she is having problems finding that control perhaps it was time for medicine to step in. If overeating was not good for her and will power was something she knew she had but could not bring herself to use, then maybe she needed some help from the outside.

 

I know sex is attainable as a single guy. You implied that I could have more sex as a single guy than as a married guy. I don't think that's true.

 

 

Noooooo...nooooo I think what I said was "be single and you can have all the sex you want without having to report to anyone" I never said anything about having more sex as a single person. Realistically all the sex you can have is comperable to how much you are willing to work for it as a single guy, right? Isn't that how it works with men? Men are the pursuers and women the followers.... and it also depends on timing, being at the right place at the right time with the right woman who is ready to go! But you are not having sex at home no matter how hard you work at it, so might was well be single and work on women who potentially might want it. Right? You can definitely get women now so what would change if you were single?

 

How could breaking up the whole family for such a frivolous reason not make me more unhappy? See my kids on weekends instead of all the time? Be a limited part in their activites because I'm not in the same house? Sit around wondering if what I did was right while debating if I've screwed them up by blowing up the family?

 

Here's a therapy topic. I already lived through that as the kid. I swore I wouldn't do that to my kids. Of course, that was 20 years ago and I had no concept of the emotions, or lack thereof, that I might experience at this point. It was nearly 15 years after my parents divorce before I knew that my dad had cheated on my mom and that she still carried the pain of that with her.

 

It may sound simple to talk about staying together for the kids or divorcing because you're actually hurting yourself more to stay in the marriage. Those are facile arguments that have to be weighed with the actual situation.

 

It's not a simple argument at all, it's not even a simple reason for why most people would rather sacrifice their own happiness rather than break their children's hearts. That is very selfless of you in fact so I can't argue with you on that one. Good for you for thinking of what's best for your children.

 

However in the event that those children are exposed to your infidelities by accident or because your W finds out or because some day one of your flings turns into a "fatal attraction" or whatver the scenario may be, it will destroy them just a bad as having a father living in another house who visits them twice a week. And on top of that add the possibility that the separation would also happen.

 

You sound like a very intelligent man I am sure you have thought about this many times, but the reality of what your betrayal could bring forth never really seems like a reality because it's never happened. So are you really trying to do what is best for your children? Or are you doing what is best for them provided you don't get caught?

 

It seems like your choice to stay with the family if you continue to betray them with sexual flings, is like playing russian rullette. You are holding a loaded gun up at them firing it at their little heads and at any given point that one bullet will come out. It always does. Something to consider when you are thinking of what's best for your family.