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Hey all, back for some advice.

 

Here's the original thread: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/616185-trust-issues-reconciliation

 

So, we're about six months out from D-day two. Things were good for awhile, but I still have occasional outbursts. I get really angry about the things that she did, and the way she treated me. I saw the OM at the local grocery store yesterday, and it was a huge trigger. He saw me, and immediately turned the other direction. I got pretty upset and punched the wall a couple of times when I got home. I'm just pissed at my wife for falling for some little POS like that.

 

I feel awful for losing my cool. I don't want to get mad at her, I just can't believe she persisted in this delusion that some little ******* that messes around with married women is a good person. Like, she still wanted to keep the fantasy of this perfect person alive in her head, and have me not measure up to it forever. It's especially painful that she didn't appreciate all I do for the family until I was ready for divorce.

 

She's claiming she would never have left me for him, and that she was just physically attracted to him. However, from her story, which was confirmed with a polygraph, it is very obvious that he rejected her advances. He did make a play for her, but it was only once, and when he was wasted - which she declined.

 

I guess I'm just stuck now. On one hand, I feel like there's a very real possibility that she may have been gone for good if he had actually liked her. On the other, I want to believe that she loves me. Who knows if she would have reconciled with me if he actually wanted her? She is adamant that she wants me and she is finally claiming to see the truth of the situation. She is regularly begging me to stay when I talk about wanting a divorce, even though I'm having these blow ups. I don't usually hit or strike things, but I do get pretty verbal with her. I have a lot of anger regarding this situation.

 

I was treated really unfairly for a long time, and it's upsetting. I guess I feel like I fought for the marriage much harder than she did, and she was the one chasing some sleaze who was feeding her BS lines and messing with her.

 

I'm lost. This post is disorganized because it's an accurate reflection of my mental state. I love her a lot. I wish she had seen the truth right after D-Day 1, but she chose to stay in the fantasy. She kept chasing the fantasy, not realizing that every time she did, it was just another dagger in my back.

 

Part of me wants to file for D tomorrow. The other part wants to believe that people can change. She made a lot of pretty awful mistakes, but is it possible she's awake now? Is it possible the fantasy is over and won't ever be rekindled?

 

How long do these feelings last? I'm not the most forgiving person, but I'm trying really hard to be in this situation. She knows what she did was awful, and I believe that apart from all of this BS she's a good person. I'm just tired of getting hurt, and I have little trust or faith in her.

 

We have two young children who we both love very much. I just don't know what to do anymore.

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Of course you're struggling. You are Plan B. That's a tough pill to swallow, but you're doing so voluntarily.

 

How long before another better looking guy shows your W some attention and becomes her new Plan A?

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Mrs. John Adams

Is she now doing everything she can to make you feel safe?

Therapy....boundaries...transparency?

 

If she isn't...then you have to ask yourself why?

 

If you have not become her number one priority....then you have reason to doubt her.

 

I dont always buy the standard reterick around here...plan B and all that crap. I dont care what everybody else assumes about YOUR situation.

 

Only you know if she is helping you to recover. If she isn't...then you need to discuss it with her. If she is trying...then thats all she can do....but if she isn't even willing to try...then you might have to make a decision that is best for you.

 

Waywards dont always know what their betrayed needs from them...but they should at least be asking what they can do to make you feel safe and loved.

I am really sorry you are still hurting....but you know this takes a long time...there are no shortcuts.

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Looking back at your previous thread. You drew lines and she crossed them. You did nothing.

 

I suspect you're just venting. You've done nothing and will continue on that path.

 

You are her plan B. It's an uncomfortable spot to be in.

 

She put you there but you are the one keeping you there.

 

Nothing going yo change that unless you take action which up to now you're incapable of.

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Can she change? That is your question. here's an advice. Don't stay with her because of the hope she will change. Stay with her if you want to stay with her because what she is now.

 

If you met her today the first time, would you want her, Knowing who she is? Because I don't think she will change in nature.

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6 months is still very early in the recovery process. Yes, people can change. Some regret the affairs and cheating. Others do not. Some cheaters figure it out real quick. Others take a while before they figure it out. Hopefully she is doing everything she can to earn another chance at keeping you in her life and creating a meaningful lifelong relationship that both of you will enjoy each others company and learn how to really love in a meaningful way. Real love is a practiced skill. It takes a while to really learn what it is about and how to do it. Along the way, everyone makes mistakes. Some more painful than others. If you want a rewarding revenge. Learn and teach each other the meaning of love.

Edited by QuietDan
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She does not really sound remorseful.

 

File for D. Tell her she can go be with the OM. Just leave the family alone.

 

She kept going back to him.

 

She is still not telling you the truth. this will be painful the next time she does it.

 

Help yourself out. tell him you are done and for to get out.

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Jersey born raised

Hi luna,

 

Your wife experienced Limerance and is still in the "afterglow". I saw a great article about it, extremely insightful. But it was professional written for a site that pushed people to spend a lot of money for counciling. I discussed posting it with the mods but they confirmed my thoughts it would cause more harm then good.

 

So use a search engine for the term. Understand she needs to grow emotional or it will happen again. The actress Elezibeth Taylor, married 7 or eight times, twice to the same man is an example of a person who did not grow up.

 

So I think your wife needs IC to help her. One who frist supports the marriage and who has experience and background in that area. If you are comfortable with your current MC ask them for a refrence.

 

Currently you are speaking English to a person who only speaks Russian. To one degree or another we all live in our own personal universe. You are rooted in your's she in her's. Until they merge the marriage is in crissis. You need to understand what Limerance truely is to begin to understand what she is going though.

 

I get what you are going though, but you are rooted in reality she is not. You can lead a horse to water but cannot make it drink. Take the time to understand where she is at and get near water.

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Your wife never showed sufficient remorse. When you got angry, she walked out and you ended up apologizing to her. It should have been the other way around. You had every right to be angry. She treated you really badly after D-Day. I'm worried that you'll always feel like you might have just been plan B.

 

Was one of the polygraph questions "Would you have left me for him if he'd wanted a relationship?" Maybe it's time for polygraph #2.

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only one word comes to my mind that is trash treating you like trash

 

im surprised that you went as far as having children with her

 

i dont think any sane person would do such a thing after having two children and a husband.

 

next time be careful choosing partner

Edited by hammyy2k
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You are so much better off in this than so many others are. First, she did not have sex with this low life. Maybe she nearly did but near only counts in hand grenades, horseshoes, and air strikes. Second, she now knows that if she screws up again that divorce is waiting in the wings. You have made that very clear. Third, you have already seen that you are a better man in every way than her fantasy man. She knew that and that is why she lied to you about him. She didn't want you to know that she was getting attention from someone that was vastly inferior to you. That would spoil the fantasy. I think you have been her Plan A all along. Unless she is really way out in left field somewhere with her rational thinking, I don't think she ever truly considered leaving you for him. I think that the POS was her attention getting Plan B. He gave her attention and it made her feel good. I think I read where you said your wife was a little immature. If that is so it figures she is going to do immature things ever so often. She just did a super immature thing this time. If this whole situation was a poker game you might not be holding a "royal flush" but you sure as blazes are holding "four aces". So stop wondering and doubting and start loving your wife, enjoying your family and your life, with the sure knowledge that if your wife really screws up that the divorce lawyer is only one phone call away and she knows it. It's easy to not enjoy life by thinkin, doubting and wondering too much. Save that until you really need it. I do wish you well.

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Jersey born raised

I went back and re-read your first thread a second time. Some info we really need.

 

1) apx age of both of you. Is there a 4 or more age difference?

 

2) how long have you both been married and is this a first marriage for both of you.

 

3) did you DNA test the baby?

 

 

You wrote your son is two and she got pregnant at the start of the EA. Got to wonder if post-natal issue at play. This is why I asked about how long you have been married. I need a base line on your marriage.

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First thing you need to do is DNA test your youngest. I read your last thread and her younger loverboy could be a father.

 

She cheated and constantly lied to you. First time you tried R she broke No Contact with OM. You sent her to parents home and you started healing. From your words "your life was amazing during this time".

 

After she came back you found AGAIN that she was in contact with OM and she punches you,kicks you and leaves you. Heyyy she leaves you!!! She was alone for almost two months and during this time she was chasing OM but AGAIN lied to you. Same story once again. False R.

 

OM dumped her and she comes back to you (her Plan B). Her sisters supported her during affair.

 

She is living her fantasy world. Good husband who will take care of home,kids and have a young boyfriend.

 

She told you he was he's better looking than you are,more fit bla bla...

 

Immature person and she is mother of 2 kids.

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Is she now doing everything she can to make you feel safe?

Therapy....boundaries...transparency?

 

If you have not become her number one priority....then you have reason to doubt her.

 

Yes, she is. It took her awhile to do this stuff, but yes.

 

Looking back at your previous thread. You drew lines and she crossed them. You did nothing.

 

You are her plan B. It's an uncomfortable spot to be in.

 

Nothing going yo change that unless you take action which up to now you're incapable of.

 

She did cross them. I responded by asking for divorce and kicking her out of the house. If I'm really plan B, she's an idiot, I have a lot of **** going for me.

 

Others take a while before they figure it out. Hopefully she is doing everything she can to earn another chance at keeping .

 

I feel like this is the case. I don't think she understood what was happening and what she was doing.

 

Hi luna,

 

Your wife experienced Limerance and is still in the "afterglow".

 

Definitely limerance. The whole thing is bananas, the entire relationship existed through text message. They didn't have much actual physical time together.

 

Your wife never showed sufficient remorse. When you got angry, she walked out and you ended up apologizing to her. It should have been the other way around. You had every right to be angry. She treated you really badly after D-Day. I'm worried that you'll always feel like you might have just been plan B.

 

Was one of the polygraph questions "Would you have left me for him if he'd wanted a relationship?" Maybe it's time for polygraph #2.

 

I apologized to her for the way I handled myself during the discovery phase. I was bat **** pissed and crazy. I wasn't apologizing to win her back, I was apologizing to move on and hopefully live peacefully apart. I thought it would be better for the children to be raised in an environment where their divorced parents didn't hate one another. She still wanted to be with me, and asked for another chance with me.

 

She has volunteered to do another poly, one in which I can ask whatever I want. We talked about the questions I'd ask, and she said I could schedule it any time and she'd go take it.

 

Second, she now knows that if she screws up again that divorce is waiting in the wings. You have made that very clear. Third, you have already seen that you are a better man in every way than her fantasy man. She knew that and that is why she lied to you about him. She didn't want you to know that she was getting attention from someone that was vastly inferior to you. That would spoil the fantasy. I think you have been her Plan A all along. Unless she is really way out in left field somewhere with her rational thinking, I don't think she ever truly considered leaving you for him. I think that the POS was her attention getting Plan B. He gave her attention and it made her feel good. I think I read where you said your wife was a little immature. If that is so it figures she is going to do immature things ever so often. She just did a super immature thing this time. If this whole situation was a poker game you might not be holding a "royal flush" but you sure as blazes are holding "four aces". So stop wondering and doubting and start loving your wife, enjoying your family and your life, with the sure knowledge that if your wife really screws up that the divorce lawyer is only one phone call away and she knows it. It's easy to not enjoy life by thinkin, doubting and wondering too much. Save that until you really need it. I do wish you well.

 

Thank you for your post.

 

 

1) apx age of both of you. Is there a 4 or more age difference?

 

2) how long have you both been married and is this a first marriage for both of you.

 

3) did you DNA test the baby?

 

 

1. Early thirties. We are the same age

 

2. 13 year relationship - first marriage for both of us

 

3. Not yet

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I'm so sorry you are going through this. I do believe you are going to have many up and down days. But you are fighting for this relationship and so is she. She's going to make mistakes as she gets her head on straight.

 

The big thing I'm learning is communication: communicate with her when you are feeling unsure and full of doubts. Don't rely on her words, only her actions. If her actions show someone who is trying to R, then do it.

 

In no way am I saying the limerence and fog is okay, but by the sounds of things, she may still be in it. It is a painful thing to get through. Again, am not making excuses or saying you should forgive her or whatever. I'm just saying I empathize with what she might be going through. You are not expected to do that.

 

Give it time and if her actions prove to be consistent, then you know you can rebuild the relationship into something new. Your old relationship is gone. Destroyed. She did that. She has to own it and take responsibility for doing that.

 

In my personal experience, I still don't see how my BH will get past my horrible actions. But he's trying so hard and he is going through all the things you've described here. I watch him go through this and it breaks me inside because I've caused it.

 

It really does take time and a lot of work on her part. If at some point, you feel it just isn't going to work out, then pull the plug.

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DS,

 

Thanks for your response. I followed your thread, and I hope things are going well for you and your H.

 

I think the limerence is over or close to being over. It just hurt to see how long it went on. This was a situation that was caught pretty early, and she never got to see much of what this person was really like. It was all a complete fantasy, and carried out entirely in the digital realm. There were plenty of red flags, but she loved the attention.

 

I suspect she was just flattered that someone thought she was attractive enough to start flirting with her, and she seemed to not realize what kind of person does that with a married woman. I think she wanted to believe that she was that good looking (i mean, it made her feel good), and she didn't want to believe it was just some sleaze that was preying on her.

 

I guess the realization that I've come to is this. She was caught in the fog. She made some terrible decisions during that time, and those things hurt me pretty badly. It made it seem like someone she didn't really know was more important than me. It made me feel like I was competing against something that no one in the world would stand a chance against.

 

However, she still wanted to stay with me even while in the fog. She kept reaching out to me while we separated telling me she missed me, wanting to meet up, and wanted another chance when I apologized for the way I had behaved.

 

She did contact him twice afterwards, and passed the poly that there was nothing sexual or anything about wanting to be together discussed. She contacted him because she was scared I was going to contact him, and she wanted him to lie to me about the stuff that happened while we were separated. She was probably still wanting to be wanted by him. To what end? I'm not sure. I've told her countless times if she wants him, go ahead.

 

A lot of people may say she wants the lifestyle of the family and stuff - which she does (as do I). But, she would be totally fine on her own. We both have good jobs and we have no debt. Her lifestyle wouldn't get worse without me in it. Just as mine wouldn't get worse without her in it (from a financial perspective).

 

The only thing that would really hurt her as a result of losing me, would be one day having to tell the kids why we aren't together. That's really it. If she didn't love me, she would have probably walked away. She's still here though. Taking her verbal lumps from me when I can't stand it anymore, saying she would give me a fair divorce if I wanted it (while saying divorce is not what she wants - we met with an attorney after D-Day 1 and worked out the arrangement), asking for forgiveness and begging for another chance. She's promising nothing like this will ever happen again.

 

So, this is the situation I'm in. I know for certain I'd be just fine if I was single. There are ways in which my life would improve should that happen. I do love her, and if this had never happened, I'd no doubt spend the rest of my life with her.

 

It's a very tricky situation to be in. I think for my own sanity, I need to let go of my fear of being betrayed again. If she does do that again, I'll get a fair divorce and joint custody.

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Jersey born raised

Quick impression of you: you are unusually well organized in your thoughts and writing. Read the two books I suggested I think you would be better off then most who do so.

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DS,

 

Thanks for your response. I followed your thread, and I hope things are going well for you and your H.

 

I think the limerence is over or close to being over. It just hurt to see how long it went on. This was a situation that was caught pretty early, and she never got to see much of what this person was really like. It was all a complete fantasy, and carried out entirely in the digital realm. There were plenty of red flags, but she loved the attention.

 

I can completely relate to this... and in my case, it came down to me not having self-love and trying to reach out to someone else to "fill a broken piece." It was very much a fantasy and in reality, we would not have worked out and I know that for a fact.

I suspect she was just flattered that someone thought she was attractive enough to start flirting with her, and she seemed to not realize what kind of person does that with a married woman. I think she wanted to believe that she was that good looking (i mean, it made her feel good), and she didn't want to believe it was just some sleaze that was preying on her.

 

Exactly. A man who will get involved with a married woman is not a good man. Not at all.

 

I guess the realization that I've come to is this. She was caught in the fog. She made some terrible decisions during that time, and those things hurt me pretty badly. It made it seem like someone she didn't really know was more important than me. It made me feel like I was competing against something that no one in the world would stand a chance against.

Not saying this is okay because it isn't. But I understand her thinking because I was there. When I look at it logically, I really see how stupid and foolish I was.

 

However, she still wanted to stay with me even while in the fog. She kept reaching out to me while we separated telling me she missed me, wanting to meet up, and wanted another chance when I apologized for the way I had behaved.

 

She did contact him twice afterwards, and passed the poly that there was nothing sexual or anything about wanting to be together discussed. She contacted him because she was scared I was going to contact him, and she wanted him to lie to me about the stuff that happened while we were separated. She was probably still wanting to be wanted by him. To what end? I'm not sure. I've told her countless times if she wants him, go ahead.

 

A lot of people may say she wants the lifestyle of the family and stuff - which she does (as do I). But, she would be totally fine on her own. We both have good jobs and we have no debt. Her lifestyle wouldn't get worse without me in it. Just as mine wouldn't get worse without her in it (from a financial perspective).

 

The only thing that would really hurt her as a result of losing me, would be one day having to tell the kids why we aren't together. That's really it. If she didn't love me, she would have probably walked away. She's still here though. Taking her verbal lumps from me when I can't stand it anymore, saying she would give me a fair divorce if I wanted it (while saying divorce is not what she wants - we met with an attorney after D-Day 1 and worked out the arrangement), asking for forgiveness and begging for another chance. She's promising nothing like this will ever happen again.

 

I don't make promises like this... here's why... If you would've asked me if I would have done this two years ago, I would've looked at you like you were crazy. I don't believe in never or ever anymore. What I do say is, "I'm choosing every day to make the right choices and if for whatever reason I can't, I promise to come to you to tell you about it right away." And then follow it up with action. Like I've said before, our words mean nothing, only our actions.

 

So, this is the situation I'm in. I know for certain I'd be just fine if I was single. There are ways in which my life would improve should that happen. I do love her, and if this had never happened, I'd no doubt spend the rest of my life with her.

 

It's a very tricky situation to be in. I think for my own sanity, I need to let go of my fear of being betrayed again. If she does do that again, I'll get a fair divorce and joint custody.

 

You are giving her a great gift of R. If she can't appreciate that, or cherish that, then at the end of the day you know you did everything you could to save the relationship and your family. So tell yourself that if she betrays you again, it is completely on her because you've given her and your kids a huge gift and at any moment, you have the right to take it away. My H is giving me a huge gift and I'm working hard to deserve/earn that gift.

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Read the two books I suggested I think you would be better off then most who do so.

 

Which books do you suggest?

 

If she can't appreciate that, or cherish that, then at the end of the day you know you did everything you could to save the relationship and your family.

 

This is one of the main reasons I want to give her another chance. Should the entire thing blow up in my face (i.e. she begins to contact him again, she does this (or worse) with someone else), at least one day I can tell my kids that I gave it my all for them, their mom and the family. I can look them in the eye and tell them I was willing to get hurt in the worst way to give them a chance at an unbroken home.

 

Like I said, I'll be fine if I'm single. Our separation was proof of that. Over the last few days, since posting this, I've had an epiphany. I'm just going to concern myself with being the best husband and father I can be. I'm not going to worry about what she might be doing behind my back, because it only serves to induce anxiety in me. Frankly, it's her loss if she messes up again.

 

If I start to suspect something isn't right, I'll act accordingly. She knows there are no more chances. She knows I won't hesitate to polygraph her. She knows that I'll be fine if we're separated and someone else will get to have me. So, maybe I should cool it with my anger, quit the lectures and see what happens. If we can rekindle what we had and grow from this experience, great. If it's gone forever, so be it. I'd say we had a good run, and it's time to focus on being good single parents.

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It's been a little while since my last post, and I'm still having a lot of trouble letting this go. I don't look at her the same way anymore, and I don't know if I ever can again. I've lost so much respect for her. Part of me is wanting to stay for the kids and be a family, and the other part just wants to end my own suffering and file for D.

 

I feel a little selfish for wanting the divorce. But, I just think I would be happier being single. She's in scared straight mode right now. I don't think that will last forever. Eventually, all of those qualities will reemerge, and we'll be back in the same spot we are in now.

 

People don't change - not in nature, behavior, yes. There is a lot about her nature that would have to change in order for me to happy. She's really negative. She's controlling. She's closed-minded. She's one of those people that looks for reasons to be unhappy, and will always find a way to get there. Now, I also know she's a cheater and a liar.

 

There was a poster that asked if I would enter into a relationship with her now, and I would probably say no. Friends, family and our therapist have told me that I'm loyal to a fault. I would have stayed with her forever being miserable in this marriage, because I gave my word that I would. It wasn't like I hadn't tried talking with her before about our problems. She just didn't care enough to do anything about it. The separation in December let me see what life would be like without her, and friends and family told me it was the happiest they had seen me in awhile.

 

I'm really torn. There's a lot of collateral that will rest on this decision. I don't have much faith that she can change who she is. She doesn't want to get IC, and I don't know how much longer I can keep doing this.

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Jersey born raised

Start with "not just friends". It is a case study primarily of how adultery occurs in good happy marriages, it actually covers all the relationships we have in life. healthy boundaries are critical with all relationships.

 

You need this information NOW.

 

Linda MacDonald wrote "Helping your spouce heal from your affair". It is an excellent starting point to help you evaluate where the marriage is and how to proceed. I also think you should go to Mrs John Adams profile page and read her posts. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/members/380722-mrs-john-adams/

 

The books available I believe are available as a free PDF download. They will also help to chose a good MC or IC

 

The third book I suggest is "5 Love Lanuages". I recall books from the 80's(?) "Men" are from Mars and "he said/she heard she said/he heard". Not sure of the last one is the actual title.

 

Please google all three. You need this info regardless if you divorce. If you ever want a good marriage they will help you build a solid foundation.

Edited by Jersey born raised
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Until she admits that she did something wrong, and therapy would be a good start at this, there's really nothing to save here. Ultimately, you'll mistrust her or start asking questions again and she'll get mad, start hitting you again, etc. She's an immature child, incapable of accepting blame for her choices. You were happier without her.

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Jersey born raised

Actually I think WilWill I think she has but does not get the damage it has caused those she loved. Soothe marriage is sable but not healed unless remorse sets in.

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OP, you and I are in very similar situations. My wife at first lied about everything. Then she tried to blame me. Then she accepted the responsibility for what she did. We are just beginning MC, and this is the only thing keeping me around. In MC, she really opened up, and I learned allot about her, why she did this, and her mindset.

 

 

But, the reality is, in my case, it is up to my wife. If she continues to go to MC/IC, continues to make a daily effort to change, and I can see this, I will stay. But I have reached the point that if she starts to go back to the way it was, neglecting my feelings, being flippant towards the kids, being self centered and uncaring, I am ending it.

 

 

You do really have the power now in your relationship, because you are now able to envision your life without her. You are starting to think clearly. What we don't want to belive, is the fact that there is someone out there better for us than our WS. It took allot of soul searching for me to accept that. Like you, I choose this woman as my wife, had children, built a life, just to see them risk it all for a POS that will never be able to take care of them, or meet their needs. It sucks. If my wife was leaving for a Dr. it would hurt less than this. It hurts so bad because we are clearly superior in every way to the OM. The whole world sees it, with the exception of our WS's.

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I think that's what has been the hardest for me. She did all this for some immature kid who was playing games with her. He wouldn't even take her to dinner, or call her on the phone. Just jerk her around and send pictures of his body to her.

 

It's one of those situations where I'm left asking myself, "who did I marry?" Meanwhile, I take care of the kids, never miss a holiday, put her and our kids before everything else in my life, do the majority of the housework, yard work, cook the majority of our meals, save us thousands of dollars every year fixing random stuff around the house, and I don't cheat on her. I regularly reject requests from various friends to do things, just because I would rather spend time with her and the children - and she does this **** to me? I'm in great shape, get plenty of interest from other women (that I don't ever act on in any capacity), and have a good job. I have zero female contacts in my phone who aren't family or friends wives. I'm a part of zero social media outlets. I've established my boundaries to protect the marriage, and I did this years ago when we got married.

 

Maybe she just fell out of love. Or, maybe the routine of married life with kids is boring to her. What did she expect? Of course our lives will change when we have children. But, grow up and adapt. Yeah, there will be less time for travel and fun things - but it's not like she had any hobbies, interests, or real friends before. I'm the one who gave up all of my extracurricular activities when we had children, and I did it voluntarily and without complaint. It sucks to hear her say stuff like, "I just thought the OM did interesting things", and I'm left sitting here thinking... "oh really? The guy with zero responsibilities who has time to do things?"

 

I don't know. I'm just venting. It all pisses me off.

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