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I am currently separated from my WH after discovering his second affair in 3 years. I have always had the ability once the pain is not as raw to see all sides, a gift and a curse. Some believe my WH had a mid life crisis due to my illness and work issues, that I will never know if it is the case. The thing I have been thinking about lately is his lack of experience with women. We got together very young, I was his first, he was nowhere close to being mine. We have been together for would have been 21 years in June, and he was unfaithful in the last 3. I guess I have been thinking about the reality of an 18 year old boy making the decision to stay faithful and only be with one woman for his entire life, and how unrealistic it seems to me now. I guess it boils down to did I really believe that he could only be with me and never experience a fling, or a ONS in his entire life. He is still begging to come back to our marriage and is really trying, I don't honestly feel any trust so I can't, but I am seeing him differently. A lot of the people I know who got together when we did promising lives together are not together, a couple are but have had infidelity in their past. Maybe our age when we started has something to do with this. I have been tempted many times over the years too. Thoughts?

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The part that's difficult is that it was his second affair. Sounds like he got caught once and made a bunch of meaningless promises about how he'd change. Now he's caught again and wants to make more meaningless promises? How on earth could you trust him again?

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The part that's difficult is that it was his second affair. Sounds like he got caught once and made a bunch of meaningless promises about how he'd change. Now he's caught again and wants to make more meaningless promises? How on earth could you trust him again?

 

Exactly. That's my biggest issue. It was two different women as well, I don't know if it's better or worse. He claims he will prove he is changing, NC, therapy IC, I refused MC this time, did that the first time.

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Mrs. John Adams

He made the choice to cheat

 

And I know it is very hard for betrayed spouses to accept... it really has nothing to do with you and everything to do with the wayward

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whichwayisup
Exactly. That's my biggest issue. It was two different women as well, I don't know if it's better or worse. He claims he will prove he is changing, NC, therapy IC, I refused MC this time, did that the first time.

 

Time will tell if he fixes himself for himself or for you regardless if you two get back together or not.

 

Not sure how you can trust him again after two affairs with 2 different women. Like he didn't learn from the first time around or see your pain that he caused you? Fact that he could cheat on you again after that just shows how NOT ready he is. Which leads back to whether or not he does counseling because he wants to fix what's broken inside of him to be a better man (if not to you, but for himself or someone else in the future). It's easy to offer up counseling (MC and IC) vs actually booking the appt's and going/following through on it. words mean nothing now. Actions = proof of efforts.

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Oh, no, Red. I'm so sorry. I recall thinking your H was one of the truly remorseful ones. Ugh.

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MidnightBlue1980
I am currently separated from my WH after discovering his second affair in 3 years. I have always had the ability once the pain is not as raw to see all sides, a gift and a curse. Some believe my WH had a mid life crisis due to my illness and work issues, that I will never know if it is the case. The thing I have been thinking about lately is his lack of experience with women. We got together very young, I was his first, he was nowhere close to being mine. We have been together for would have been 21 years in June, and he was unfaithful in the last 3. I guess I have been thinking about the reality of an 18 year old boy making the decision to stay faithful and only be with one woman for his entire life, and how unrealistic it seems to me now. I guess it boils down to did I really believe that he could only be with me and never experience a fling, or a ONS in his entire life. He is still begging to come back to our marriage and is really trying, I don't honestly feel any trust so I can't, but I am seeing him differently. A lot of the people I know who got together when we did promising lives together are not together, a couple are but have had infidelity in their past. Maybe our age when we started has something to do with this. I have been tempted many times over the years too. Thoughts?

 

Here's the thing. You have a couple of different things going on here.

 

One. fidelity is a choice. It doesn't really matter if you have had one or one thousand partners, there is always someone out there you have not slept with. You have nothing to do with him not being faithful. That is all on him.

 

Two, you have a point though. We live a long life these days. I'm guessing you he is 39 or 40. Are you both the same people today who you were at 18? Will you be the same people 20 and 40 years from now? On the flip side, I am 44 and I certainly do not want to be trading partners every decade. So you need to do the work to keep your marriage fresh and change along with your partner.

 

Unfortunately he has already cheated 2x? So now it's in a bad spot. I do not doubt that he wants to keep your marriage, it is warm and familiar. But I am not sure he is done with having fun with women who are probably thinking they have a chance with a serious relationship with him. On the other hand, I am a fWS and I have changed, my H and I reconciled. It can be done.

 

I would say that you need to know why this happened. He needs to be brutally honest - so you can address it. Even if it seems unfair, you need to know. My H also strayed and his reasons were so stupid to me (of course involving oral) but to him, it was material. I don't blame you for wanting to save your marriage but you need to know what the real story is.

 

Are you dating anyone while you are separated? Is he?

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He made the choice to cheat

 

And I know it is very hard for betrayed spouses to accept... it really has nothing to do with you and everything to do with the wayward

 

Oh I know that!!!! I didn't do anything this time around. He knows it, I know it and everyone that is in our lives that knows about his A knows it. These are just thoughts I have been having not excuses for his behaviour. He owns that.

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Time will tell if he fixes himself for himself or for you regardless if you two get back together or not.

 

Not sure how you can trust him again after two affairs with 2 different women. Like he didn't learn from the first time around or see your pain that he caused you? Fact that he could cheat on you again after that just shows how NOT ready he is. Which leads back to whether or not he does counseling because he wants to fix what's broken inside of him to be a better man (if not to you, but for himself or someone else in the future). It's easy to offer up counseling (MC and IC) vs actually booking the appt's and going/following through on it. words mean nothing now. Actions = proof of efforts.

 

I agree. He is in IC totally on his own, I have no part in it. I do hope he becomes the man he wants to be, as there are a lot of wonderful things about him. I just don't trust him at all so I have little faith in his ability to do it.

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Oh, no, Red. I'm so sorry. I recall thinking your H was one of the truly remorseful ones. Ugh.

 

I thought so too?

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Here's the thing. You have a couple of different things going on here.

 

One. fidelity is a choice. It doesn't really matter if you have had one or one thousand partners, there is always someone out there you have not slept with. You have nothing to do with him not being faithful. That is all on him.

 

Two, you have a point though. We live a long life these days. I'm guessing you he is 39 or 40. Are you both the same people today who you were at 18? Will you be the same people 20 and 40 years from now? On the flip side, I am 44 and I certainly do not want to be trading partners every decade. So you need to do the work to keep your marriage fresh and change along with your partner.

 

Unfortunately he has already cheated 2x? So now it's in a bad spot. I do not doubt that he wants to keep your marriage, it is warm and familiar. But I am not sure he is done with having fun with women who are probably thinking they have a chance with a serious relationship with him. On the other hand, I am a fWS and I have changed, my H and I reconciled. It can be done.

 

I would say that you need to know why this happened. He needs to be brutally honest - so you can address it. Even if it seems unfair, you need to know. My H also strayed and his reasons were so stupid to me (of course involving oral) but to him, it was material. I don't blame you for wanting to save your marriage but you need to know what the real story is.

 

Are you dating anyone while you are separated? Is he?

 

We are definitely not the same people as we were 20 years ago. I am not trying to save my marriage, I am trying to end it, he wants to save it. We have talked it to death, his reasons, his low self esteem, how weak of a person he is. I still can't find a reason to trust him, never say never but right now not a chance. He is also exploring this in IC according to him. Neither of us are dating, this is still pretty fresh, I am not even close to ready.

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Believe me there is nothing warm about our marriage now, it might be familiar but I am not his loving, warm wife anymore. So I doubt that's his reason for trying to stay.

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Confused48

It seems to me like you have a lot of good reasons and insight to forgive him. You should do that. And continue to love him and cherish the years that you had together. All while going your separate ways now that you realize you can't trust him going forward. Just my two cents.

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ronisanidiot
He made the choice to cheat

 

And I know it is very hard for betrayed spouses to accept... it really has nothing to do with you and everything to do with the wayward

 

What worse for me was MC that kept push the idea of equal responsibility as it was a flawed relationship rather than a flaw in my WW.

 

Turns out BPD and had nothing to do with me or how I treated her......but for 18 months I got "bad husband" excuse and was told how I needed to share the shame and blame.

 

High functioning BPD's come across as very believable, even when they are pushing others through the gates of hell

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What worse for me was MC that kept push the idea of equal responsibility as it was a flawed relationship rather than a flaw in my WW.

 

 

The MC is there to somehow "save" the marriage and setting up a narrative where the WS is the bad guy and the BS is the good guy is not seen as a sustainable dynamic going forward. Fine, if the goal is to split up, not so good, if the goal is to stay together.

It often then perceived as being better to equalise the "fault" and share out the "blame".

A problem shared is a problem halved sort of idea. Mobilising both to "solve" their marriage - a team building exercise... rather than a witch-hunt.

 

It can however lead to the WS feeling somewhat "justified" and the BS feeling angry and frustrated at being unjustly "blamed".

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Just a Guy

Hi Red, if I may ask, how long have you and your WH been separated? Also, if as you say, you are pushing for divorce then why have'nt you initiated the divorce proceedings? If you were to do so it would send a clear message to your husband that the relationship is over and you are moving on. He would then stop bothering you with pleas to get back together and would reconcile with the idea that he had finally lost you and his family and would then work on moving forward with his life. It would also send home the message in no uncertain terms to him that he cannot keep getting reprieves in life and that actions have consequences some of which can be painful and irrevocable.

It all boils down to what you want in your heart of hearts. If you still have a small spark igniting within you which wants to get back with him then be honest and acknowledge it. In that case you can work out a plan for reconciliation. If there is no such spark then be ruthless and cut the ties, burn the bridges and move ahead with your life.

 

There is another possibility which you can mull over. Proceed with the divorce and when it is final and both of you are free you can tell your( then ex husband) that you will wait a while and see how he progresses in improving himself and ironing out his issues. If you know for certain after observing him for a while that he has turned over a new leaf then the two of you can start dating again. If your observations show that he is stuck in a rut and there has been no change then you can go ahead and date others and find yourself a new partner.

 

Hope you find something useful in all this. Warm wishes.

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I am currently separated from my WH after discovering his second affair in 3 years. I have always had the ability once the pain is not as raw to see all sides, a gift and a curse. Some believe my WH had a mid life crisis due to my illness and work issues, that I will never know if it is the case. The thing I have been thinking about lately is his lack of experience with women. We got together very young, I was his first, he was nowhere close to being mine. We have been together for would have been 21 years in June, and he was unfaithful in the last 3. I guess I have been thinking about the reality of an 18 year old boy making the decision to stay faithful and only be with one woman for his entire life, and how unrealistic it seems to me now. I guess it boils down to did I really believe that he could only be with me and never experience a fling, or a ONS in his entire life. He is still begging to come back to our marriage and is really trying, I don't honestly feel any trust so I can't, but I am seeing him differently. A lot of the people I know who got together when we did promising lives together are not together, a couple are but have had infidelity in their past. Maybe our age when we started has something to do with this. I have been tempted many times over the years too. Thoughts?

 

 

There's the run. You were tempted, but didn't act on it.

 

Lots of people are tempted. It's a part of being human. The key for your wh will be to see if he can learn better ways of behaving, as if he doesn't,the next time he's tempted, you may find yourself back at square one with hm cheating again.

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Not commenting on your marriage or whether you should take him back, just responding to your more general question of whether expecting fidelity from an 18 year old for 60+ years is realistic.

 

In my heart of hearts, I don't think it is realistic or fair for most men. I know there are exceptions, but I think most men's lives would be at least somewhat negatively impacted by professing and attempting to adhere to fidelity to one person from 18 onward. Hell, even 30 onward. Sex with a new woman for most men is an excitement that is hard to give up. And of course for the right woman, the right marriage, most of them think it's worth it to give it up. But the reality of it becomes harder as time goes on, and it's pretty crazy to me that we actually let small bouts of infidelity ruin decades-long marriages, when sex is such a powerful force for men. Now, long affairs and constant lying, gaslighting, risky sex, getting other women pregnant, etc is something else entirely. I'm not trying to downplay the seriousness of an affair or the emotional devastation it can bring. Just trying to take a step back and look at a short affair or ONS within the broader context of a lifelong marriage.

 

I didn't ask my H for fidelity but I know that's not an easy thing for most people so I get why it's not normal. For monogamy-minded individuals the key is putting a bunch of safeguards in place to prevent cheating and that's also really hard to do. There's no easy solution for sure.

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Hi Red, if I may ask, how long have you and your WH been separated? Also, if as you say, you are pushing for divorce then why have'nt you initiated the divorce proceedings? If you were to do so it would send a clear message to your husband that the relationship is over and you are moving on. He would then stop bothering you with pleas to get back together and would reconcile with the idea that he had finally lost you and his family and would then work on moving forward with his life. It would also send home the message in no uncertain terms to him that he cannot keep getting reprieves in life and that actions have consequences some of which can be painful and irrevocable.

It all boils down to what you want in your heart of hearts. If you still have a small spark igniting within you which wants to get back with him then be honest and acknowledge it. In that case you can work out a plan for reconciliation. If there is no such spark then be ruthless and cut the ties, burn the bridges and move ahead with your life.

 

There is another possibility which you can mull over. Proceed with the divorce and when it is final and both of you are free you can tell your( then ex husband) that you will wait a while and see how he progresses in improving himself and ironing out his issues. If you know for certain after observing him for a while that he has turned over a new leaf then the two of you can start dating again. If your observations show that he is stuck in a rut and there has been no change then you can go ahead and date others and find yourself a new partner.

 

Hope you find something useful in all this. Warm wishes.

 

Thanks. We have been separated for about 4 months. It's still pretty new. I can fill out the paperwork but we have to be separated for a year before we can get a divorce. I have spoken to a lawyer and this was the result. Where I live there is no legal separation, nothing to file, but we have to separate for a year still.

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understand50
I am currently separated from my WH after discovering his second affair in 3 years. I have always had the ability once the pain is not as raw to see all sides, a gift and a curse. Some believe my WH had a mid life crisis due to my illness and work issues, that I will never know if it is the case. The thing I have been thinking about lately is his lack of experience with women. We got together very young, I was his first, he was nowhere close to being mine. We have been together for would have been 21 years in June, and he was unfaithful in the last 3. I guess I have been thinking about the reality of an 18 year old boy making the decision to stay faithful and only be with one woman for his entire life, and how unrealistic it seems to me now. I guess it boils down to did I really believe that he could only be with me and never experience a fling, or a ONS in his entire life. He is still begging to come back to our marriage and is really trying, I don't honestly feel any trust so I can't, but I am seeing him differently. A lot of the people I know who got together when we did promising lives together are not together, a couple are but have had infidelity in their past. Maybe our age when we started has something to do with this. I have been tempted many times over the years too. Thoughts?

 

Red123,

 

I am sure curiosity on his part played a bit. I also think that he decided to cheat, and as it was two times, one after you gave him a second chance, shows he just wanted to. As for 18 year old guys being unrealistic in marring and keeping their vows, well I am one who did, at that age. I am not a paragon, by no means. I just love my wife. She is older, by 2 years, and had lovers before me. She also cheated once early in our relationship before we got married. I forgave her. Maybe I am the exception, but I think we all have free will, and your husband does as well.

 

I am not going to advise one way or another, on to continue to divorce, or try again. In my book, I think her had his chance. I do wish you all the best going forward.

 

I wish you luck.....

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Not commenting on your marriage or whether you should take him back, just responding to your more general question of whether expecting fidelity from an 18 year old for 60+ years is realistic.

 

In my heart of hearts, I don't think it is realistic or fair for most men. I know there are exceptions, but I think most men's lives would be at least somewhat negatively impacted by professing and attempting to adhere to fidelity to one person from 18 onward. Hell, even 30 onward. Sex with a new woman for most men is an excitement that is hard to give up. And of course for the right woman, the right marriage, most of them think it's worth it to give it up. But the reality of it becomes harder as time goes on, and it's pretty crazy to me that we actually let small bouts of infidelity ruin decades-long marriages, when sex is such a powerful force for men. Now, long affairs and constant lying, gaslighting, risky sex, getting other women pregnant, etc is something else entirely. I'm not trying to downplay the seriousness of an affair or the emotional devastation it can bring. Just trying to take a step back and look at a short affair or ONS within the broader context of a lifelong marriage.

 

I didn't ask my H for fidelity but I know that's not an easy thing for most people so I get why it's not normal. For monogamy-minded individuals the key is putting a bunch of safeguards in place to prevent cheating and that's also really hard to do. There's no easy solution for sure.

 

The worst part of an affair is the lying. The deception can be very destructive.

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Thanks. We have been separated for about 4 months. It's still pretty new. I can fill out the paperwork but we have to be separated for a year before we can get a divorce. I have spoken to a lawyer and this was the result. Where I live there is no legal separation, nothing to file, but we have to separate for a year still.

 

If I were you, I think I'd stick out the separation for the full year and then reevaluate. Personally, I don't expect there would be much for me to reevaluate as I've just had enough of infidelity. But perhaps if after a year you still saw positive signs from him and your perspective has changed, maybe you'll feel differently. But I wouldn't let him back in before the year is up so you can retain your right to divorce at that point. This is a natural consequence of his actions.

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If I were you, I think I'd stick out the separation for the full year and then reevaluate. Personally, I don't expect there would be much for me to reevaluate as I've just had enough of infidelity. But perhaps if after a year you still saw positive signs from him and your perspective has changed, maybe you'll feel differently. But I wouldn't let him back in before the year is up so you can retain your right to divorce at that point. This is a natural consequence of his actions.

 

That's a fair call. Thank you. We are romantically separated but unfortunately still live in our home just different rooms. Due to my illness right now it is not possible to afford two places. Our kids live with us, and neither of us want to have them leave their home right now. We also can't sell our home for another year so this is it right now. I'm actually ok with it, I am surprised how ok with it I am tbh.

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That's a fair call. Thank you. We are romantically separated but unfortunately still live in our home just different rooms. Due to my illness right now it is not possible to afford two places. Our kids live with us, and neither of us want to have them leave their home right now. We also can't sell our home for another year so this is it right now. I'm actually ok with it, I am surprised how ok with it I am tbh.

 

I don't know how you get thru this one, Red. He was obviously convincing through two affairs now and a false reconciliation. I don't know how you trust again after that.

 

I don't think it has to be a knock-down, drag-out divorce. Maybe this in-house separation for a year followed by an amiable divorce and sale of the house is what's best.

 

Sorry to hear you're not in good health. I hate when that crap interferes with decisions that need to be made.

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Thanks for all the replies. My XWH has asked me to go away with him next weekend. It is our wedding anniversary and he booked a place I love and made dinner reservations at a restaurant that we went to years ago and loved. I haven't agreed yet but I am leaning towards going. I love it there and it is such a beautiful peaceful place. I am well aware that this is probably a tactic to win me back. However, I have been so sick for the past month I would really like to go and get away. Thoughts?

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