Where should we be by now?

[Southern Sun]

It's been almost a year since my last contact with former AP and almost 10 months since I confessed and initiated my 2nd D-Day. Things have been...rough. As you might expect.

 

After making MAJOR changes in our lives (mostly my life), we agreed to try to reconcile. It's been a hard road, and I get it. I think we've been getting better overall, but we have a fairly regular pattern of two steps forward, and one, two, or three steps back.

 

Lately, it feels like we've been in a spiral, like it's somehow getting worse. He's drinking more and more, which seems to be causing lots of his anger to come out.

 

Is there a "normal" for this phase? I feel pretty broken and beaten down. I know he's broken too. I'm scared for us at this point.

[lolablue17]

Sometimes BS agree to reconcile because they're too afraid of the unknown, not because they really listen to themselves and their needs. Other BS sometimes really want to try, but when it doesn't work, they're afraid to admit it, and they drag it on and on for a long time.

 

Your husband is trapped in a loop. Some say it can take many years to even partly recover from infidelity. But remembering that we only have a few dozens years to live, "many years" is a very long time.

 

So, whenever you lose hope, you can take some responsibility, and tell your H that it just doesn't work, and this reconciliation makes you both miserable, so what's the point? If he's too weak to take a decision, you have the same 50% responsibility for this.

 

When you tell him, it might even help him to know better which side to turn to. It might help him to heal better and faster, knowing that his failure to heal might end it.

[Southern Sun]

Sometimes BS agree to reconcile because they're too afraid of the unknown, not because they really listen to themselves and their needs. Other BS sometimes really want to try, but when it doesn't work, they're afraid to admit it, and they drag it on and on for a long time.

 

Your husband is trapped in a loop. Some say it can take many years to even partly recover from infidelity. But remembering that we only have a few dozens years to live, "many years" is a very long time.

 

So, whenever you lose hope, you can take some responsibility, and tell your H that it just doesn't work, and this reconciliation makes you both miserable, so what's the point? If he's too weak to take a decision, you have the same 50% responsibility for this.

 

When you tell him, it might even help him to know better which side to turn to. It might help him to heal better and faster, knowing that his failure to heal might end it.

 

I've asked him if he REALLY wants this. I certainly don't want to hang onto him if it's too painful, nor do I want him clinging to me if he is going to be miserable. He insists that he wants to stay together. He told me today he is willing to deal with the misery, but he said maybe my threshold is lower than his.

 

I don't really get it.

 

Surely he can't WANT to stay in this...victim-like state? He rallies at times; I am doing everything I know to reassure him but he feels like a vacuum. It feels like bottomless need and anger.

[JohnAdams]

It's been almost a year since my last contact with former AP and almost 10 months since I confessed and initiated my 2nd D-Day. Things have been...rough. As you might expect.

 

Ok, I am trying to understand. You have had two D day's?

 

You wonder if this is where you should be after two D days?

 

His world is turned upside down. He should probably let you go and start over. He is probably looking at his options. He was probably content until he found out you betrayed him.

 

If will probably take much longer before your husband knows what is best. Possibly years. It will take him much longer to process this ultimate betrayal that you committed. Where should you be now? You should have never have put yourself in this place in the first place.

 

It may and probably will take years. Do you have the patience to wait?

[DKT3]

I've asked him if he REALLY wants this. I certainly don't want to hang onto him if it's too painful, nor do I want him clinging to me if he is going to be miserable. He insists that he wants to stay together. He told me today he is willing to deal with the misery, but he said maybe my threshold is lower than his.

 

I don't really get it.

 

Surely he can't WANT to stay in this...victim-like state? He rallies at times; I am doing everything I know to reassure him but he feels like a vacuum. It feels like bottomless need and anger.

 

Sometimes it's simply too much, too deep, too much to handle.

 

However, fear of the unknown, divorce what it could mean or look like, is more painful than dealing with betrayal even at this level.

 

In my case I didn't think I could ever view her the same, trust her, or even love her the way I should, but divorce scared me more so I stayed, told her I wanted to work on the marriage. Eventually divorce didn't scare me any more, I became comfortable with what it would mean.

 

Statically speaking, you are at the point where most BH (around 10 months) will​ leave the marriage after infidelity. Using that, I would guess his anger is normal (if there is really a normal in these situations).

[Mrs. John Adams]

It's been almost a year since my last contact with former AP and almost 10 months since I confessed and initiated my 2nd D-Day. Things have been...rough. As you might expect.

 

After making MAJOR changes in our lives (mostly my life), we agreed to try to reconcile. It's been a hard road, and I get it. I think we've been getting better overall, but we have a fairly regular pattern of two steps forward, and one, two, or three steps back.

 

Lately, it feels like we've been in a spiral, like it's somehow getting worse. He's drinking more and more, which seems to be causing lots of his anger to come out.

 

Is there a "normal" for this phase? I feel pretty broken and beaten down. I know he's broken too. I'm scared for us at this point.

 

Please explain the second dday... not sure what you mean

 

Sweetheart....Reconciliation is hard. Getting "over" this is hard moving forward is hard.

 

What is it that you are truly looking for? You think that he should just get over it and move forward? Or are you willing to admit...that this just sucks?

 

How much work are you willing to do to make him feel safe? Are you completely transparent? Are you telling him everything?

[Owl6118]

Surely he can't WANT to stay in this...victim-like state? He rallies at times; I am doing everything I know to reassure him but he feels like a vacuum. It feels like bottomless need and anger.

 

Well, gently but firmly, he IS, in fact, a victim. He has been victimized.

 

And there is no shame or anything inappropriate in working through the trauma associated with being the victim of a betrayal when you are, in fact, really a victim of betrayal. It is pretty unfair to invalidate his lived experience of this by, well, suggesting that he chooses to malinger in a "victim-like state."

 

Of course no one wants to feel bad. No one wants to stay traumatized.

 

But wanting to be over it and getting over it are two different things. It takes time. Often, professional help as well. And your help first and last.

 

LS doesn't focus as much on the BS experience as some other places. But here or in other places if you read long term stories from BS's you see many people report the same experiences.

 

1. Second year harder than the first... many report that the first year is shock. Only in the second year does it really sink in that tbis really happened, and can never be made not to have happened or be undone.

 

2. Antiversary stress. Many report increasing triggers and stress as the anniversary (s) of D Day approaches.

 

3. Obsessive attempts to reconstruct memory and meaning. Many BSes report an exhausting, never ending, obsessive need throughout the entire first year and beyond to reconstruct their life memories. A terrific article on this a while back in the NY Times:

 

Great Betrayals https://nyti.ms/1bx9OtR

 

4. Triggers. Constant reminders of the affair, or, of the fissure between what he thought life was and what it really was. These can nearly endless. Names of restaurants, hotels. Sound of a phone alert cnime. A name. And so much more. Anything that opens the rabbit hole to reliving and reprocessing the feeling of betrayal.

 

They say recovery takes 3 to 5 years, Southern, and that is with good care and a supportive spouse. And that year 2 is often harder than year 1.

 

I think you are on a good path and I hope for good things for you. But it is a long road. And... not one your husband had any choice about being sent on..

[Owl6118]

He's drinking more and more, which seems to be causing lots of his anger to come out.

 

I do find this concerning, in that in the long run, numbing his pain with alcohol will not help him. Unfortunately you may be the last person he needs to hear that from. Is there a friend of his, loyal to him, who knows about the affair, who might be able to talk to him about better roads than numbing with alcohol?

 

On the second part of your sentence I think your wording is exactly right. Alcohol lowers inhibitions. The anger was already there, but he has a lifetime or treating you with consideration and courtesy (and, maybe, some preexisting marriage stuff with both of you being conflict avoidant with one another) that make it hard for him to express it. Until alcohol lowers the barrier. But the anger is released by the alcohol ot caused by it.

 

I am sorry. This is hard stuff.

[Mrs. John Adams]

we are 33 years into reconciliation

 

We love each other

 

life is good

 

and yet

 

infidelity STILL rears it's ugly head

 

are you prepared and willing to deal with it?

 

Do you think...it just goes away?

 

because if you do...you are very sadly mistaken

[dichotomy]

An analogy I see (from personal experience)

 

Imagine you lost a body part - a finger, part of your hand hand, maybe the toes off your foot, maybe something more intimate on your body.

 

How long would it take you to get over it, what would the phases be for you? Would even 10 years be enough to never have days where it bothered you?

 

Same with infidelity.

 

Its been over 10 years - it bothers me - especially when there are other issues in the marriage which happen all the time. Like an old football injury acts up when it rains or is very cold.

 

Sometimes I feel I stayed because leaving would make my life worse - so I stayed married as the "less worse" choice.

 

Your husbands drinking is a major issue (as major as infidelity) if it is causing issues - that needs to be resolved as well.

 

Do you have kids ?

[aileD]

2-5 years of you're working diligently on reconciliation every day.

 

There will be steps up and steps back....it's hard for us BS. Hard to just forget....like that quote that people might forget what you said but will never forget how you made them feel.

 

What are you both doing to work on R?

 

Are you both doing IC? And MC? Have you done any couples retreats or affair recovery programs? If you're religious or even if you're not there is something called Retrouvaille that is a weekend away and they show you how to communicate better (we are going end of march!). Have you talked with pastors? Men's groups? Woman's groups? Etc etc etc.

 

It's not going to get better if you're not working hard at it. Both of you.

 

The drinking is a concern. He's self medicating instead of dealing with the pain in counseling or thru other methods I mentioned.

 

It's a long road. You hurt him immensely. If you love him, and truly want to be together, continue to show your love. It's hard for him to believe. Ur you have to be consistent.

[Southern Sun]

Ok, I am trying to understand. You have had two D day's?

 

You wonder if this is where you should be after two D days?

 

His world is turned upside down. He should probably let you go and start over. He is probably looking at his options. He was probably content until he found out you betrayed him.

 

If will probably take much longer before your husband knows what is best. Possibly years. It will take him much longer to process this ultimate betrayal that you committed. Where should you be now? You should have never have put yourself in this place in the first place.

 

It may and probably will take years. Do you have the patience to wait?

 

I knew I was opening myself up for criticism by posting this...but honestly, I'm not sure I can feel much worse than I already do. So here we go.

 

Yes, I've had two D-Days and I've been open about that on this board. I've also shared in my threads that I went back to the affair after the first D-Day, which is why I had the second one. It's been a horrific, painstaking process, but I am finally out of it. I did go to my BH and confess after I ended it for good, only because I knew that I could not mislead him anymore; I knew that he deserved the truth and I couldn't protect myself, no matter what the outcome was.

 

Explaining my "reasons" for going back would be a bit much for this discussion. But I was a giant mess, the affair was a giant mess, I thought the only solace I had was in it, but in truth (of course) it was destroying me and everything I had. I just couldn't see it at the time.

 

Of course I should never have put us here in the first place. Is that helpful?

 

My husband can let me go if he wants.

 

As far as patience goes, I have it. But if my "patience" takes us both down and our children with it, due to the escalating alcohol use and near-nightly fits of rage (from him), we've missed the forest for the trees.

[Southern Sun]

Please explain the second dday... not sure what you mean

 

Sweetheart....Reconciliation is hard. Getting "over" this is hard moving forward is hard.

 

What is it that you are truly looking for? You think that he should just get over it and move forward? Or are you willing to admit...that this just sucks?

 

How much work are you willing to do to make him feel safe? Are you completely transparent? Are you telling him everything?

 

Explained in my post to your husband.

 

I know it's hard. I never claimed it wasn't. I don't expect him to be over it by now either. And yeah...it just sucks. I'm doing everything I know to do. He knows it all...the whole ugly truth.

 

The part that I'm struggling with now is that it's become something else. He is using alcohol to cope and on many nights, it triggers some sort of yelling diatribe from him. It can be about almost anything. Yes, it makes me feel hopeless and scared. I don't know what to expect anymore. I'm worried for my children.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Let me explain something

 

This is not about you...this is about the two of you

 

and if you cannot wrap your head around this...quit

 

you are thinking about you and the things you are processing

 

but let me assure you...if you are the guilty party....then you have to accept that you are the one who has to do the heavy lifting...and if you can't...cut him lose

[Southern Sun]

Well, gently but firmly, he IS, in fact, a victim. He has been victimized.

 

And there is no shame or anything inappropriate in working through the trauma associated with being the victim of a betrayal when you are, in fact, really a victim of betrayal. It is pretty unfair to invalidate his lived experience of this by, well, suggesting that he chooses to malinger in a "victim-like state."

 

Of course no one wants to feel bad. No one wants to stay traumatized.

 

But wanting to be over it and getting over it are two different things. It takes time. Often, professional help as well. And your help first and last.

 

LS doesn't focus as much on the BS experience as some other places. But here or in other places if you read long term stories from BS's you see many people report the same experiences.

 

1. Second year harder than the first... many report that the first year is shock. Only in the second year does it really sink in that tbis really happened, and can never be made not to have happened or be undone.

 

2. Antiversary stress. Many report increasing triggers and stress as the anniversary (s) of D Day approaches.

 

3. Obsessive attempts to reconstruct memory and meaning. Many BSes report an exhausting, never ending, obsessive need throughout the entire first year and beyond to reconstruct their life memories. A terrific article on this a while back in the NY Times:

 

Great Betrayals https://nyti.ms/1bx9OtR

 

4. Triggers. Constant reminders of the affair, or, of the fissure between what he thought life was and what it really was. These can nearly endless. Names of restaurants, hotels. Sound of a phone alert cnime. A name. And so much more. Anything that opens the rabbit hole to reliving and reprocessing the feeling of betrayal.

 

They say recovery takes 3 to 5 years, Southern, and that is with good care and a supportive spouse. And that year 2 is often harder than year 1.

 

I think you are on a good path and I hope for good things for you. But it is a long road. And... not one your husband had any choice about being sent on..

 

Okay, point taken about being a victim. Yes, he has been victimized. I just hate seeing him so...unwilling to do ANYTHING. He refuses both IC and MC. He refuses to let ME attend IC. He freaks out about me even reading a book on affair recovery. He thinks it puts me in an "affair" frame of mind. I guess he thinks that he will somehow just get better, some day, without ever putting any effort into it.

 

Obviously I know that I have to be doing all the right things myself and providing him love, care, and reassurance. But I can't MAKE HIM BETTER. There's only so much I can do. The rest has to come from inside him, if he wants to get there, and if it's even possible. Am I wrong about this?

 

I am not expecting a miracle. I am just scared of our current state.

[Southern Sun]

I do find this concerning, in that in the long run, numbing his pain with alcohol will not help him. Unfortunately you may be the last person he needs to hear that from. Is there a friend of his, loyal to him, who knows about the affair, who might be able to talk to him about better roads than numbing with alcohol?

 

On the second part of your sentence I think your wording is exactly right. Alcohol lowers inhibitions. The anger was already there, but he has a lifetime or treating you with consideration and courtesy (and, maybe, some preexisting marriage stuff with both of you being conflict avoidant with one another) that make it hard for him to express it. Until alcohol lowers the barrier. But the anger is released by the alcohol ot caused by it.

 

I am sorry. This is hard stuff.

 

Yes...he is typically the type of person to keep his hard feelings to himself. We've talked about this a lot. He will push those feelings away over and over. For years, this didn't matter much, but since the affair, they come out in a big burst of anger here and there. That makes perfect sense to me, of course. But now, as the alcohol use has gotten worse, it's just getting more and more common, and the triggers more and more random.

[Southern Sun]

An analogy I see (from personal experience)

 

Imagine you lost a body part - a finger, part of your hand hand, maybe the toes off your foot, maybe something more intimate on your body.

 

How long would it take you to get over it, what would the phases be for you? Would even 10 years be enough to never have days where it bothered you?

 

Same with infidelity.

 

Its been over 10 years - it bothers me - especially when there are other issues in the marriage which happen all the time. Like an old football injury acts up when it rains or is very cold.

 

Sometimes I feel I stayed because leaving would make my life worse - so I stayed married as the "less worse" choice.

 

Your husbands drinking is a major issue (as major as infidelity) if it is causing issues - that needs to be resolved as well.

 

Do you have kids ?

 

I know this pain will never go away entirely. I don't expect it to be gone. I just thought perhaps we wouldn't feel so hopeless at this point. It's a long time for us to be in so much pain.

 

I hate to think he would choose to stay because it's the "less worse" option.

 

My husband's drinking is a problem. It runs in his family. His mother has even said something to me about it, and this was before it started noticeably affecting our interactions. As if we didn't already have enough issues...this is creating even more. Just as we are trying to heal our emotional distance, this does create a divide.

 

Yes, we have kids.

[Marc878]

Alcohol will only make this worse. Is he in any IC?

 

R takes 2-5 years without guarantees. It's been less than a year?

 

You have a long road to travel.

[Southern Sun]

2-5 years of you're working diligently on reconciliation every day.

 

There will be steps up and steps back....it's hard for us BS. Hard to just forget....like that quote that people might forget what you said but will never forget how you made them feel.

 

What are you both doing to work on R?

 

Are you both doing IC? And MC? Have you done any couples retreats or affair recovery programs? If you're religious or even if you're not there is something called Retrouvaille that is a weekend away and they show you how to communicate better (we are going end of march!). Have you talked with pastors? Men's groups? Woman's groups? Etc etc etc.

 

It's not going to get better if you're not working hard at it. Both of you.

 

The drinking is a concern. He's self medicating instead of dealing with the pain in counseling or thru other methods I mentioned.

 

It's a long road. You hurt him immensely. If you love him, and truly want to be together, continue to show your love. It's hard for him to believe. Ur you have to be consistent.

 

We did do one recovery weekend and it didn't leave us with the best feeling.

 

I mentioned in another response that my husband refuses all counseling and doesn't want me to go either.

 

I do read, voraciously. I've done self-inventories, tons of reflection, as much as I can on my own. He is very resistant.

 

We do have support at church, but he felt like the advice he got was the same thing over and over, so he just quit calling that person.

 

We do have good days. But we are going around in circles, going over and over the same issues. We're in some sort of loop and the alcohol isn't helping. In fact, I can't figure out WHAT might help, because when we talk about it and I ask him what exactly we can change, what should I do, or what we can do, he doesn't have ideas, and doesn't like mine.

 

I just feel stuck.

[Southern Sun]

Alcohol will only make this worse. Is he in any IC?

 

R takes 2-5 years without guarantees. It's been less than a year?

 

You have a long road to travel.

 

He refuses IC.

[Marc878]

We did do one recovery weekend and it didn't leave us with the best feeling.

 

I mentioned in another response that my husband refuses all counseling and doesn't want me to go either.

 

I do read, voraciously. I've done self-inventories, tons of reflection, as much as I can on my own. He is very resistant.

 

We do have support at church, but he felt like the advice he got was the same thing over and over, so he just quit calling that person.

 

We do have good days. But we are going around in circles, going over and over the same issues. We're in some sort of loop and the alcohol isn't helping. In fact, I can't figure out WHAT might help, because when we talk about it and I ask him what exactly we can change, what should I do, or what we can do, he doesn't have ideas, and doesn't like mine.

 

I just feel stuck.

 

It takes two. Even with you pulling the heavy load you can't do this all by yourself. I get that a period of time will exist With the anger, hurt and that he may not have gotten there yet. 10 months is not that long IMO especially after not one but two DDAYS.

 

However, if he is or becomes an alcoholic there's nothing to salvage here. Long term without help that's a killer. Only gets worse.

[deadsoul]

I wish I had advice for you. As it has only been a bit over a month since Dday for me, we are still both in survival mode.

 

The drinking concerns me... and that's an issue at my house as well.

 

I'll have to go back and reread your story, I know I've read it before, I just have a terrible memory.

 

Anyway, positive thoughts headed your way. Just keep taking a day at a time. Maybe you guys are getting to the point of realization that you can't get past it?

[QuietDan]

To what extent if any did any of these problems exist before the affair?

[BenchCoach]

Are you saying it's only been 10 months since you come COMPLETELY clean?. That's only a drop in the bucket when it comes to affair recovery. It been said it takes 2- years, for some even longer.

 

If you really love him and want this marriage, your gonna have to be more patient. His drinking does need to be addressed, though.

[GoldenR]

The tone of your post makes you sound impatient for him to just get over it. You had 2 D-Days! 10 months.....is nothing. While the affair may be in your rearview mirror, it's in your husband's thoughts literally hundreds of times a day. He is still having trouble processing the fact that you did this to him. And while you're sleeping peacefully, he's lying awake, staring at the ceiling, consumed by dark thoughts. His healing is far from over.

 

But yes, the alcohol is making it worse. You need to reach out to someone that he'll listen to about it: a relative of his, a good friend. Have them try to get through to him.