Question for OW in Emotional affairs

[LavendarLass]

my WH has been texting a coworker frequently for several years. Last summer, I had a feeling something was wrong/had changed. I could sense something in his voice that suggested more concern/consideration for her and he was more distant, etc. I checked his cell phone and saw numerous texts from this coworker. Not sexual, but close/friendly, day-to-day stuff. Selfie pics of her, her 20 year old daughter, their horse, hikes, etc etc.

 

When I brought up with him initially, he went on offensive with anger at my "snooping". I finally checked cell records and saw he'd been texting 2,000+ times per month and when he went out of town, was texting 100x per day. When I confronted him with this, he agreed "crossed the line" a bit, but not love/not physical, etc. They lasted no texting of 2 months, then started back up, though not to extent of before. I again checked cell records and confronted him, this time with emotional blow out and possible separation, etc.

 

My question - he claims they are just friends, though did push line above what he should have. Says not in love, no romantic feelings, just enjoy each other. She seems to be available for whatever level of texting he wants! He claims she is fine with no texting now. I know her as they work together and have for 5 years; I've gotten to know her over the years and we are friends to some extent. I feel betrayed that she would text my husband like this. Can a woman just be available for fun interaction and support and have no feelings herself?

 

I am trying to figure out what things might be like from her side.

I am wondering if I should confront her. I now feel very uncomfortable going to his work place because there will be an "elephant in the room" for her and me.

 

Looking for some insight

 

(our whole marital situation/WH history of other affairs more complex than this; this is not first time in situation, but I am trying to figure this particular situation out)

Edited July 17, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Paragraphs and move to Infidelity

[MidnightBlue1980]

I have a friend like this. I do not have romantic feelings for him, nor he for me. The person I got into an A with was never a friend like this. It was the person my H did not even know existed. Generally when women get into the friend zone, we sort of are not interested romantically. It's a lot about attention - giving and receiving. For me with my friend, I like the attention and we have a lot in common. For him though, I don't know. They say men are genuinely only in contact with a woman if they hope one day something may happen and of course they feed off the attention. If I wanted something with my guy friend, he'd jump at it. So probably this woman is not interested in your H beyond fulfilling some emotional need.

 

That said, its not good because it takes time away from your family - time your husband could be spending on you, or a million other things. I know this because my H saw the phone bill and all the texts and called my friend up. He requested the texting stop and I want to talk with him, to send an email. My friend was okay and totally understood. So we do that and its more manageable. Instead of thousands of instant texts we send an email like I would to anyone else. Still, I am careful as obviously my H knows I had an A and I do not want him to be suspicious where there is no need. So I don't do it too much. My friend is also going through a divorce so I am extra careful now. I do not need problems.

 

You are completely in the right to ask your husband to cut out the texting. Even if it was another guy, no one should be sending 2000 texts a month to one person. There are other priorities in life. Pick up the phone and have a 30 minute conversation. If they balk at that, wonder why.

 

Added: to give you clarity on the texting in the A with xMM, the first month or so, we texted a lot but it was sexual. He could care less about my actual life. After a few months it was one to two texts a day. That is just my experience though.

 

Added - I will say I do not send selfies to my friend. He sends me pics of his garden and things he want me to see, objects. But not pictures of himself and its rare when he does it. That is a bit weird and suspicious. I can just go on FB and see his pictures. There is no need to send me a picture of himself.

Edited July 17, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Merge posts and redact quote of starting post

[LavendarLass]

MidnightBlue, thank you for you insight. I appreciate it. From my side of things/WH perspective, this is more complex due to his history of other affairs, but I was really trying to figure out the OW side of things since we are acquaintances and casual friends. Their increased texting originally became an issue for me in October and I brought it up with WH and asked him to stop all texting. He told her about my uneasiness and wanting it to stop back then and I am just surprised she would have the total lack of consideration to just start back up again a few months later, even though it seems to have been to a lesser degree.

 

I have a high sense of professional and personal boundaries and really don't cross them. I am friendly to colleagues at work, but don't push it beyond that at all.

This woman seems pretty straight forward and I just wonder where she's coming from.

 

As we've been discussing this, WH will say things like "she's always interested in what I have to say" and "she's always positive". I am not a distant or uninterested spouse! I am the one who has suffered from lack of attention/intimacy. That whole attitude becomes the set up for an EA

[elaine567]

Their increased texting originally became an issue for me in October and I brought it up with WH and asked him to stop all texting. He told her about my uneasiness and wanting it to stop back then and I am just surprised she would have the total lack of consideration to just start back up again a few months later, even though it seems to have been to a lesser degree.

 

I have a high sense of professional and personal boundaries and really don't cross them. I am friendly to colleagues at work, but don't push it beyond that at all.

This woman seems pretty straight forward and I just wonder where she's coming from.

 

As we've been discussing this, WH will say things like "she's always interested in what I have to say" and "she's always positive". I am not a distant or uninterested spouse! I am the one who has suffered from lack of attention/intimacy. That whole attitude becomes the set up for an EA

 

As your husband has a history of inappropriate liaisons with women, he may not have communicated your "uneasiness", to this woman at all.

[LavendarLass]

elaine567, I agree, I really have no idea what he communicated to her and my thought is not a whole lot of detail. Though they did stop/severely limit texting for 2 months and then resumed, so I am assuming something was said.

 

I am also trying to decide if/when/how I should confront this OW. She and I are casual friends since I've known her over the years as a WH work-colleague. I now feel uncomfortable going to see WH in his office at all as I would feel extremely awkward around this OW.

 

I feel like I should have some discussion with her; not angry or accusing per se. Not sure.

[MidnightBlue1980]

elaine567, I agree, I really have no idea what he communicated to her and my thought is not a whole lot of detail. Though they did stop/severely limit texting for 2 months and then resumed, so I am assuming something was said.

 

I am also trying to decide if/when/how I should confront this OW. She and I are casual friends since I've known her over the years as a WH work-colleague. I now feel uncomfortable going to see WH in his office at all as I would feel extremely awkward around this OW.

 

I feel like I should have some discussion with her; not angry or accusing per se. Not sure.

 

Does this woman know about his other affairs?

 

Maybe you can explain your concerns. If there is nothing going on, she should understand.

 

I don't know though. I see the bigger problem with your husbands lack of respect for you. The thing is, if people are going to do this stuff, they will just take it underground. He texts because he either is unaware you can see the count or there is nothing to hide.

[LavendarLass]

Does this woman know about his other affairs?

 

Maybe you can explain your concerns. If there is nothing going on, she should understand.

 

I don't know though. I see the bigger problem with your husbands lack of respect for you. The thing is, if people are going to do this stuff, they will just take it underground. He texts because he either is unaware you can see the count or there is nothing to hide.

 

No, I am fairly certain she does not know of the other affairs.

 

I do realize that my main issue is my WH and his lack of respect. That is why I have not contacted OW as of yet. I do realize she is a much smaller part of it for me. I just feel some desire to "clear the air" as I am now uncomfortable in that office and a sense of wanting to know what this was all about from her end of things. It may just be questions I never get an answer to.

[ChickiePops]

No, I am fairly certain she does not know of the other affairs.

 

I do realize that my main issue is my WH and his lack of respect. That is why I have not contacted OW as of yet. I do realize she is a much smaller part of it for me. I just feel some desire to "clear the air" as I am now uncomfortable in that office and a sense of wanting to know what this was all about from her end of things. It may just be questions I never get an answer to.

 

Why do you stay with him?

[dubliner]

Boundaries springs to my mind

2000+ texts a month, is 66+ texts a day, I'm assuming these texts are after work hours as they work together? If he's home 5 hours before bed that's averaging 13 texts an hour, That's a lot of 'chatting' with someone other than those he lives with, does he text her when you are present, in the same room as him? Do you have little to no conversation during the evening, spend a lot of the time in separate rooms or doing separate activities?

Is the coworker also married?

 

It certainly is crossing boundaries to engage in this level of interaction with a married person, sexual or not, and I agree that it may be attention seeking rather than any sexual attraction BUT that is how many affairs begin.

Should you speak to her? It's a tough call, my CM partner spoke to me about our contact when she checked his emails, it was nothing sexual but enough contact for her to be concerned and rightly so, did it stop the EA developing? Sadly No. Something is lacking in your H, he needs to be validated with attention from other women, him understanding why and developing better boundaries, that's where the focus should be.

[Poppy47]

The xMM in my case used to text me ALL the time. It was never sexual content. Always about day to day things he was doing.

 

Are you really sure this has not become physical?

 

Your husband has past form ,so do you trust his word on this?

 

Why don't you approach this woman? You have nothing to lose.

 

Your husband has absolutely no respect for your wishes. I sense that this particular issue is indicative of deeper issues.

 

You need to sort this and your husband out.

 

Poppy

[goodyblue]

When I was in an A we would text a hundred times a day. Sometimes sexual, mostly not. We truly had a friendship. If I were you I would worry more about that... that is the kind of relationship men leave for. 'Shes positive person, she listens to me'... all things that my AP said to his now ex wife. And we are married now and have been for some time. I wouldn't put up with that for a single minute. Make it stop NOW.

[ShatteredLady]

I'm so sorry that you're in this situation. I'm still trying to recover from my WH 'friendship' (NOT) with his OW.

 

You say that they are work colleagues & I get the impression that they work closely together....if you visit your H at work you will see her?

 

They already spend all day, 5 days a week together & they still send THAT many messages??

 

The biggest sign for me was the drastic change in the way my H started treating me. I think you know that this is more than a 'friendship'. What do they do at lunchtime? Do they work late? Business trips & fun functions?

 

An affair partner agrees to 'lay low' for a couple of months. That's not the behavior of just friends. I'm sorry. Chances are, if you talk to her she will say whatever they've agreed upon.

 

I'm sorry. Best wishes to you. I'm so sorry.

[pooldog]

If you do not like it then it is not good. Listen to your inner voice. That amount of texting and given his history is just crazy. It would be so so easy to go from an EA to a PA and you don't know maybe they do have a PA. I think he should not do anything like that if he has a history.

 

Are you in a position to walk? How do you feel?

 

my WH has been texting a coworker frequently for several years. Last summer, I had a feeling something was wrong/had changed. I could sense something in his voice that suggested more concern/consideration for her and he was more distant, etc. I checked his cell phone and saw numerous texts from this coworker. Not sexual, but close/friendly, day-to-day stuff. Selfie pics of her, her 20 year old daughter, their horse, hikes, etc etc. When I brought up with him initially, he went on offensive with anger at my "snooping". I finally checked cell records and saw he'd been texting 2,000+ times per month and when he went out of town, was texting 100x per day. When I confronted him with this, he agreed "crossed the line" a bit, but not love/not physical, etc. They lasted no texting of 2 months, then started back up, though not to extent of before. I again checked cell records and confronted him, this time with emotional blow out and possible separation, etc.

My question - he claims they are just friends, though did push line above what he should have. Says not in love, no romantic feelings, just enjoy each other. She seems to be available for whatever level of texting he wants! He claims she is fine with no texting now. I know her as they work together and have for 5 years; I've gotten to know her over the years and we are friends to some extent. I feel betrayed that she would text my husband like this. Can a woman just be available for fun interaction and support and have no feelings herself?

I am trying to figure out what things might be like from her side.

I am wondering if I should confront her. I now feel very uncomfortable going to his work place because there will be an "elephant in the room" for her and me.

 

Looking for some insight

 

(our whole marital situation/WH history of other affairs more complex than this; this is not first time in situation, but I am trying to figure this particular situation out)

[SweetiePi]

I don't mean to scare you, but this is how MM and I started. Hundreds upon hundreds of texts sometimes 2000 a month. We only had an EA, but sometimes that is worse because you are developing a very close friendship. That bonding him and I did together should have been with his wife, but he feels comfortable and like he can confide in me.

[LavendarLass]

The xMM in my case used to text me ALL the time. It was never sexual content. Always about day to day things he was doing.

 

Are you really sure this has not become physical?

 

Your husband has past form ,so do you trust his word on this?

 

Why don't you approach this woman? You have nothing to lose.

 

Your husband has absolutely no respect for your wishes. I sense that this particular issue is indicative of deeper issues.

 

You need to sort this and your husband out.

 

Poppy

 

I honestly don't think this relationship has been physical. I do realize he is a liar, but I don't have any other sense that that happened. He did this same thing 5 years ago and swears it was not physical, but that was a different situation and I really don't know the truth because there was opportunity.

 

Yes, I do realize this is a huge respect and boundary issue and I am trying to figure out how to move forward and what the best way to try and sort this out with him. I have decided to give it several months to see what we can work on. He has stopped texting completely - as he says "it's been 6 weeks!". He has been leaving his cell phone in our room during the evening and is trying to be transparent about that. He seems to feel he's admitted it's wrong, he's deleted her contact from his phone and does not plan to text her again. We talk round and round in circles periodically with me trying to have him look at the deeper issues and sometimes he gets it, sometimes he doesn't seem to. He thinks saying "I didn't MEAN to hurt you" clears the air.

[LavendarLass]

I do appreciate the various points of view you've all been giving me. Things to think about...

[LavendarLass]

I don't mean to scare you, but this is how MM and I started. Hundreds upon hundreds of texts sometimes 2000 a month. We only had an EA, but sometimes that is worse because you are developing a very close friendship. That bonding him and I did together should have been with his wife, but he feels comfortable and like he can confide in me.

 

I absolutely know the frequent texting is not right. And I am sick and scared about it. I initially found clear evidence of how much they'd been texting back in October. They'd been texting intermittently for at least a year by then, but I could tell something had changed last summer. Talked to him last August and he flatly denied any problem. By October, I looked at our cell phone record and saw he was texting 2,000 x per month; there had been a significant increase in texts as of July. I had an emotional "blow out" then and demanded they stop. He agreed they would. Things seemed generally OK, but I finally decided to check again about 6 weeks ago. This time, our cell phone company now shows the actual phone number for each text! In October, we just had monthly text amounts. So I saw that they had resumed texting. Not at 2,000+ x per month, but enough. And I had demanded no texting and he had agreed. He only backs down when I have specific evidence in absolute black and white.

 

He says he is not interested in leaving the marriage, but gets caught up in the "thrill" of the positive interaction and diversion that texting can be. When he's involved in doing it, he says he justifies it by telling himself it's not wrong and it's not hurting me. That is really just further justification because I've made it clear it hurts.

 

Again, my focus is on him, but I still wanted to fathom what this OW could be thinking and how she could justify this! As I said, we are causal friends. She has a significant other/long-term boyfriend. WH says she feels "terrible" about it, but she didn't feel "terrible" enough as of October to quit doing it!!

[elaine567]

Again, my focus is on him, but I still wanted to fathom what this OW could be thinking and how she could justify this! As I said, we are causal friends. She has a significant other/long-term boyfriend. WH says she feels "terrible" about it, but she didn't feel "terrible" enough as of October to quit doing it!!

 

People keep doing things, even things they know are wrong, because they enjoy doing them.

My guess is that she is probably being ignored* at home from an intellectual/emotional point of view and has instead developed a close bond with your husband. He is then her "go to" person, the person she shares big parts of her life with, the person she always wants to talk to.

She may feel "terrible", or she may not feel that bad about it at all, she may justify it (we are just friends, what's the big deal?) or minimise it (we don't text any more than anyone else), or she may just think "This feels so right, so how can it possibly be wrong?", or she may have definite designs on your husband and doesn't care what anyone else thinks.

 

No-one keeps texting anyone who doesn't respond, he is feeding her as much as she is feeding him.

 

As for how far this has gone. Who knows?

It could be that they don't talk about sex in those texts, as it is a completely platonic friendship, or they don't need to talk about it as they are already in a physical relationship and they don't want to leave any written evidence of that fact for anyone to find, or they talk in code, or they have another means of contact for sexy talk.

Your husband is an old campaigner, he has cheated before, he will probably have learned how to cover his tracks.

 

ignored*- her partner may have shut her out in some way, or she may not actually want to talk to him, preferring LavendarLass's husband instead.

[Lady Hamilton]

You're on a slippery slope it may already be too late to pull back from... This is the kind of interaction that not only leads to affairs, but leads to a WS leaving his marriage for the other relationship.

 

My affair started as a close friendship with a coworker that had us texting 100+ times a day. Never sexually or suggestively. By the time his wife complained, we had crossed into EA though neither of is knew it. He insisted it wasn't anything romantic, he wasn't leaving, we were just friends, etc...

 

Then it all changed. We had a PA and for a short time he insisted he didn't want to leave, we'd ride it out until the kids were grown, then Dday, an halfhearted R, then he said he wanted out. All in the span of less than 3 months.

 

He did finally end up leaving, we are together and married, and have been for almost a decade.

[heartwhole]

I'm a BW too. I realize you're asking for the OW perspective so if my advice isn't helpful, I'm sorry.

 

What I'm seeing in your situation is a pattern. He had an EA (PA?) 5 years ago, and never fully accounted for it, and you never got the bottom of any issues or changed any dynamics. Then you discovered a similar situation this fall, and he said he would stop, but he completely disregarded your absolutely reasonable request, and then he throws out "I didn't think I was hurting you" instead of saying, wow, yes, with my history, it is outrageous that I would keep doing this.

 

So I say, it is outrageous that he would keep doing this. Before my husband's A, I just sort of figured we both knew proper boundaries. Now, I assume nothing. It's all spelled out. I absolutely expect him to interact with women only when necessary, and only openly with me. I have access to his phone and iPad, but more importantly, we talk, we use our devices together, he tells me about funny texts (from men, clearly), etc. We have these boundaries so I don't even have to worry or wonder if it's gone "too far" with a female friend who for whatever reason enjoys texting my husband 2,000 times a month. 20 texts a month would be too far if it wasn't a friendship that was shared with me and included me.

 

I think you're right that your husband hasn't begun the work. It took about nine months of confusion and grand gestures and deflection before I figured out that what he needed to work on was within himself, and he got on board when he realized that grand gestures weren't enough and he was losing me. Our MC said my husband is low on empathy and self-absorbed, and he has been working in IC to change how he relates and how he prioritizes. I know he's never going to turn into a person who naturally puts others first, but I can expect my fair due and consideration and I think he's capable of giving enough for the relationship to work for me.

 

Absolutely the OW is getting some kind of thrill out of the interaction, but that shouldn't make YOU feel awkward about seeing them at work, it should make HER feel awkward.

 

Also, with your husband's history of cheating, lying, and repeating the cycle, I would consider it a good possibility they will take their interactions further underground. There are apps designed for affairs that completely hide all messages and will self-destruct if anything but the secret code is entered. There are burner phones kept in the office or car. Where there's a will, there's a way. If he's not dealing with any issues and blaming and deflecting instead of owning, then I would consider it unlikely he'd be able to quit the OW cold-turkey.

[LavendarLass]

I'm a BW too. I realize you're asking for the OW perspective so if my advice isn't helpful, I'm sorry.

 

What I'm seeing in your situation is a pattern. He had an EA (PA?) 5 years ago, and never fully accounted for it, and you never got the bottom of any issues or changed any dynamics. Then you discovered a similar situation this fall, and he said he would stop, but he completely disregarded your absolutely reasonable request, and then he throws out "I didn't think I was hurting you" instead of saying, wow, yes, with my history, it is outrageous that I would keep doing this.

 

So I say, it is outrageous that he would keep doing this. Before my husband's A, I just sort of figured we both knew proper boundaries. Now, I assume nothing. It's all spelled out. I absolutely expect him to interact with women only when necessary, and only openly with me. I have access to his phone and iPad, but more importantly, we talk, we use our devices together, he tells me about funny texts (from men, clearly), etc. We have these boundaries so I don't even have to worry or wonder if it's gone "too far" with a female friend who for whatever reason enjoys texting my husband 2,000 times a month. 20 texts a month would be too far if it wasn't a friendship that was shared with me and included me.

 

I think you're right that your husband hasn't begun the work. It took about nine months of confusion and grand gestures and deflection before I figured out that what he needed to work on was within himself, and he got on board when he realized that grand gestures weren't enough and he was losing me. Our MC said my husband is low on empathy and self-absorbed, and he has been working in IC to change how he relates and how he prioritizes. I know he's never going to turn into a person who naturally puts others first, but I can expect my fair due and consideration and I think he's capable of giving enough for the relationship to work for me.

 

Absolutely the OW is getting some kind of thrill out of the interaction, but that shouldn't make YOU feel awkward about seeing them at work, it should make HER feel awkward.

 

Also, with your husband's history of cheating, lying, and repeating the cycle, I would consider it a good possibility they will take their interactions further underground. There are apps designed for affairs that completely hide all messages and will self-destruct if anything but the secret code is entered. There are burner phones kept in the office or car. Where there's a will, there's a way. If he's not dealing with any issues and blaming and deflecting instead of owning, then I would consider it unlikely he'd be able to quit the OW cold-turkey.

 

YES! This is it exactly! I fully realize he does NOT have proper boundaries. At all.The situation you describe is exactly where I would feel some sense of comfort and some sense of "yes, we can make it" longer-term if my husband switched into the mode you describe with your husband. I had been told years ago by a counselor who WH and I saw together briefly, that WH had no insight and lacked empathy and she predicted that I would be the one doing most/all of the work. I am wondering how I can encourage/demand my WH do the work needed to make this right and how I enforce those boundaries. What eventually helped get your husband to make these changes?

[heartwhole]

YES! This is it exactly! I fully realize he does NOT have proper boundaries. At all.The situation you describe is exactly where I would feel some sense of comfort and some sense of "yes, we can make it" longer-term if my husband switched into the mode you describe with your husband. I had been told years ago by a counselor who WH and I saw together briefly, that WH had no insight and lacked empathy and she predicted that I would be the one doing most/all of the work. I am wondering how I can encourage/demand my WH do the work needed to make this right and how I enforce those boundaries. What eventually helped get your husband to make these changes?

 

That's a good question and I won't claim that I have a ton of insight into all of this yet, still being in the midst of the process (15 months from discovering the affair.) I would say one really important thing we finally did was read How to Help Your Spouse Heal from an Affair by Linda MacDonald. She provides it free on her website as a PDF, or you can purchase it from Amazon. It's a very short read but very clear cut, and as you read it you will realize all the ways your husband hasn't been showing remorse and doing the things needed to make you feel safe and important.

 

So we read that right after Christmas, and then he finally sent the OW a true NC (no contact) letter, though he had been no contact for 8 months. Then he started seeing a counselor. At this point, I started to realize that all the issues that led him to have an affair in the first place -- the entitlement, selfishness, lack of concern for me, etc. -- were all still there. The affair was really just a symptom of them. It was driven home to me when he told me his New Years' Resolutions were to be a better husband and father, to spend one day a month away from home on a hobby, and to start doing another hobby with other people one night a week. So exactly how was he going to be working on being a better father and husband when he was adding so much to the already lopsided dynamic we had? I started to envision a life without him, and I think that woke him up.

 

I've been in IC (individual counseling) since we stopped MC (marriage counseling) a few months after the affair, and that has helped me figure out what I need and to stand firm in making sure I get it.

 

So for example with empathy, my husband has always shifted conversations about my needs or burdens to himself, even when I was pregnant and it was a pregnancy symptom! So I gently but firmly point it out whenever he shifts the conversation away from me, and he's learning not to. He still stumbles and I try to maintain a positive attitude because he's trying and I know it takes a long time to change old habits.

 

It took a really long time for him to stop blame-shifting onto me for the affair, but I just refused time and time again to accept it. When he saw that our counselor, our family, and our friends all agreed that he was selfish and unjustified, he either had to dig in and go down with the ship, or he had to look in the mirror and admit it was true.

 

With your husband, I just wouldn't even entertain the idea that it's OK to have any sort of one-on-one friendship with this or any other woman. If that's a non-negotiable for your husband, then he can be single and live as he pleases. But he's married with a history of at least emotional affairs, blurred boundaries, and deception, so no way, no how. If he can't accept that, fine, but I wouldn't just accept this wishy-washiness any longer. I would expect a defined "no contact" message to the OW, and if you see no way around them continuing to work together, then I personally would want it all discussed openly with her and her significant other. There's no reason to pretend their contact has been appropriate or to be embarrassed by your discomfort with it.

 

Conveniently for me, the OW lives abroad, so cutting her out of our lives was fairly easy, though my husband still dragged his feet about it, tried to leave avenues open, and didn't want to address it with their mutual friends. But I made all of those conditions for remaining married to me. Once their mutual friends knew that they had had an inappropriate relationship and he couldn't have contact with her out of respect for me, then the whole thing lost its secrecy and appeal. By the second week my husband was exclaiming, "I can't believe I don't miss her! I thought this would be harder!" (See, the selfishness and the lack of empathy. He thought his feelings were about HER but they were about HIM.)

[LavendarLass]

With your husband, I just wouldn't even entertain the idea that it's OK to have any sort of one-on-one friendship with this or any other woman. If that's a non-negotiable for your husband, then he can be single and live as he pleases. But he's married with a history of at least emotional affairs, blurred boundaries, and deception, so no way, no how. If he can't accept that, fine, but I wouldn't just accept this wishy-washiness any longer. I would expect a defined "no contact" message to the OW, and if you see no way around them continuing to work together, then I personally would want it all discussed openly with her and her significant other. There's no reason to pretend their contact has been appropriate or to be embarrassed by your discomfort with it.

/QUOTE]

 

Wow, Heartwhole, we have some very similar issues! And the book you mention is the exact one I handed to my husband and this time he actually read it! So, he has made some initial changes (he never agreed to read any books after previous A's). This is the only thing that gives me hope and the only reason I have not packed up and left with the kids.

 

I too have come to realize that I have not been 50-50 in this relationship (by a long shot!) and it is more broad in our relationship and the repeated As are just a symptom. He has been emotionally abusive and these affairs are graphic examples of this emotional abuse! He doesn't recognize that, but they are. My plan is to make sure I am 50-50 in the future. As you mention, I'd be happy with 60-40, but I am telling him 50-50. The two words that describe his behavior and attitude with me are control and entitlement. Married life is so much easier when you rarely have to compromise and almost always get your way by just denying and ignoring the other person's wants/desires. To write me off as "emotional" "illogical" "too sensitive". I have told him I will not take that anymore, in any aspect of our life. He has used all the manipulative tactics of emotional/verbal abuse, and they are just highlighted in the affairs. Gas lighting, blame shifting, denial - all there. But, he has at least admitted/been able to see more of this now than ever before, so I do have some hope.

 

I just see him stalling a bit now; he's read the book, generally agrees with what it says, he's stopped the texting, so now is ready to just "move on". I am trying to figure out how to keep pushing so this is an ongoing recovery with specific actions that assure me this is the case. I keep pointing out to him I've been down the "I'm done, it's over, I don't want to leave" road before and with no other work, it didn't last. I will not stay longer in a marriage unless I have more concrete assurance that things are changing, he's doing the work and it is LESS rather than more likely that this will just happen to me again.

 

It's a seesaw of emotions from day to day, both in my attitude and in his.

 

I do like your suggestion of discussing their relationship as a group with WH, OW and her significant other. Right now, my husband says she is looking for a new job as she "feels bad" and that she needs to do it for my "peace of mind". She plays a key role in the office (which is actually my husband's business) so it is not a good business move for her to go. I certainly don't care what is good for his business at this point and am firm that HE created this problem and jeopardized his own business, so I have no guilt about this at all. But, it may take awhile for her to find a new job and I just feel it would help me to have some closure with her. These are all issues that weigh on me.

[Sunkissedpatio]

I'm sorry but "texting her 100x a day" when he was out of town?

 

Why in the world isn't he texting YOU a 100x a day when he is out of town?

 

What in the world does he need to be talking to this woman so much about that he cannot talk to you, his own wife, about?

 

There is something there and it is a lot more than you care to believe at this point. Sorry to say this but he is definitely having "something with her" and it is far FAR more than a friendship.

 

Friendships with people outside of a relationship of the opposite sex do not revolve around 100s of texts back and forth. NO WAY.

[heartwhole]

My husband went through a period where he kept saying he was ready to move on and he thought it should be "in the rear view mirror," but I finally pointed out that after my father died, he wouldn't' have announced that it was time for me to be over it, but instead he respected my need to process and grieve and heal.

 

my husband says she is looking for a new job as she "feels bad" and that she needs to do it for my "peace of mind".

 

Oh right, see, here the sainted OW is selflessly looking for a new job for YOUR peace of mind. He can't even see that HE should feel bad and that HE should be worrying about your peace of mind. It sounds like he still thinks you are unreasonable but he and the OW will try to placate you anyway. How nice of them! NOT. If you have to depend on her to do the right thing because your husband doesn't get it, then your marriage is never going to get better.

 

Since our stories are similar, I'll also share that my husband did not admit to it being a PA. He let me think it was only an EA (which I assumed it was since she lives impossibly far away, but even that was no obstacle) and was dismissive and condescending about how I objected to it and made him end it. Then after two weeks I charged up his old phone and found an email account that he no longer used and found out the truth. I asked over and over again if I knew everything, told him that we couldn't move forward without the truth, etc., but he did not have the courage to own up to it.