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Welp, finally learned the truth...


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In order to avoid writing a novel, I will try to keep this as cliff notes as I can and fill in details via questions. I just need to get this out and have some feedback/therapy.

 

3 years ago, my wife was having a rough time, I believe she had some post partum depression for at least a year after the birth of our second child. She was vulnerable at that point in time, although I didn't realize quite how much of a hard time she was having emotionally. At that time, she befriended an old college teammate who was a lesbian and had just exited a 7 year relationship in which her GF left her. Fast forward and her and my wife had built a best friendship that I had become increasingly at odds with. Fast forward another year, I really felt this friendship was not right, I confronted my wife and was told I'm crazy, she's straight, etc. etc. I wasn't convinced, I searched her phone (which she kept with her at all times, I got ahold of it after she had passed out after a night of drinks), she chatted with her "friend" on WhatsApp, which was set to delete all previous conversations. But I did find incriminating evidence in the WhatsApp sent images folder, screen shots of previous chats and things written on note paper. Nothing concrete but enough that I flipped out and woke her up in the middle of the night.

 

She denied all, made me feel like I was crazy and over reacting. Berated me for looking through her phone and insisted that I just had to trust her that she was straight and she loved me and her friend was just having a hard time.

 

Fast forward again, I still suspected and broke down and looked through computer files and found a picture of love quotes labeled from my favorites, from my heart to yours and your heart to mine. I confronted her again, again I was screamed at, told I disgusted her for looking through her stuff again, and that the quotes were just pinterest quotes she liked and were nothing.

 

Fast forward yet again to yesterday, I needed a USB stick to transfer some files, found one in her desk, looked to make sure nothing important was on it and found a document labeled the nickname she called her friend. I opened it but it was blank, then realized she had turned the font to white. I turned it to black.

 

Boom.... finally clear evidence that they had had a physical affair, it lasted at least 4 months prior to my wife becoming pregnant with our third child. (keep in mind I had no suspicions yet at that time). My wife claims the physical part stopped and never started again after becoming pregnant with our 3rd child but its also clear to me that an emotional affair on some level continued for quite a time after that.

 

When confronted with the letter, the reaction was completely different than all the other times. She knew she was caught, even though the physical part of the affair had been over for over 2 years, she had continued lying about it over and over after all this time. But her reaction was now one of a complete breakdown in sorrow and shame.

 

So far, she is extremely remorseful, I have never seen such a guilty look of shame on her before. I think she had been hiding it so long and the flood of guilt and shame gushed out. She is also complying with my demands to cut off all contact with the OW now and forever, phone, facebook, instagram everything blocked and no contact for life. This other woman has been in our lives over these three years, as I said, even though the physical part ended long ago, there was something on some emotional level continuing. I simply said I can no longer allow this woman to hook up an emotional hose to you and keep draining it from me and our marriage for not one more second if we are going to make this work.

 

So, she's complying, she's crying a lot, she's very remorseful, and she's been very clear she wants to spend her life with me.

 

The depths of the lying is nearly unfathomable though. The hardest part is all the times she made ME feel crazy like I was over reacting and made me second guess myself and apologize to HER... they call that "gaslighting" right?

 

At the moment, I am intent on trying to make this work. We have 3 children , the physical part only lasted 4 months or so, emotional part on some level much longer. I know she's telling the truth because I've found enough clues and read things over the years that the timeline makes sense.

 

I won't go on and on or else no one will read this all. Ask questions if you got them, I just want general advice and some online group therapy.

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CantMakeThisUp

I have a question. Would feel equal pain if it was another man? I was trying to feel out your situation and am not sure if it would bother me as much having another woman involved than another man. It's definitely a unique situation and I wish the best for you.

 

There's just something about a (spouse) letting another man take a few jabs in her if you know what I mean.

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I have a question. Would feel equal pain if it was another man? I was trying to feel out your situation and am not sure if it would bother me as much having another woman involved than another man. It's definitely a unique situation and I wish the best for you.

 

There's just something about a (spouse) letting another man take a few jabs in her if you know what I mean.

 

Let me just say that the letter I found was very deeply emotional, it was ending their physical relationship, and it was obvious my wife was having a very hard time bearing the thought of not touching this woman again. Also, during this time, our own sex life dropped dramatically and has only recently finally picked up after it had become obvious to me that the OW was finally falling more to the wayside I suppose. Their texting and such had cut down dramatically.

 

So yes it was quite painful to read how intense they were together compared with how little emotional and physical contact I had been receiving.

 

At least if it was a man, I could accept on her word that she moved on and does want to be with me. She swears that right now and has said she'll do anything to fix all this. But there's that part of me that wonders if I'm gonna get dumped 10 years down the road cause she finally realized she is a lesbian or something. *note I don't think she is, I think she's probably bi.. or was able to find this woman sexually attractive because of their bond

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CantMakeThisUp
Let me just say that the letter I found was very deeply emotional, it was ending their physical relationship, and it was obvious my wife was having a very hard time bearing the thought of not touching this woman again. Also, during this time, our own sex life dropped dramatically and has only recently finally picked up after it had become obvious to me that the OW was finally falling more to the wayside I suppose. Their texting and such had cut down dramatically.

 

So yes it was quite painful to read how intense they were together compared with how little emotional and physical contact I had been receiving.

 

At least if it was a man, I could accept on her word that she moved on and does want to be with me. She swears that right now and has said she'll do anything to fix all this. But there's that part of me that wonders if I'm gonna get dumped 10 years down the road cause she finally realized she is a lesbian or something. *note I don't think she is, I think she's probably bi.. or was able to find this woman sexually attractive because of their bond

 

I can see how that may still sting emotionally. A betrayal is a betrayal. I'm not sure if the physical aspects of an affair are worse than all of the lying and deceit or what. I'm sure you'll find your answer in due time. Hang in there buddy.

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Man or woman, cheating is cheating. She needs to get herself into independent counselling to find out why she allowed herself the approval to cheat on you. If you rug sweep her affair the chances it will happen again are high. Make her do the work to fix what she broke. She still needs get tested for STD's. The lying ends more marriages then the acts of infidelity. Think about a postnuptial.

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I can see how that may still sting emotionally. A betrayal is a betrayal. I'm not sure if the physical aspects of an affair are worse than all of the lying and deceit or what. I'm sure you'll find your answer in due time. Hang in there buddy.

 

What stings is that letter showed more emotion in 2 pages than she's really given me in 3 years.

 

Of course though, since being found out yesterday, she is like emotional niagra falls to me right now. I'm staying pretty stone faced right now though, except for one mutual breakdown between us.

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Man or woman, cheating is cheating. She needs to get herself into independent counselling to find out why she allowed herself the approval to cheat on you. If you rug sweep her affair the chances it will happen again are high. Make her do the work to fix what she broke. She still needs get tested for STD's. The lying ends more marriages then the acts of infidelity. Think about a postnuptial.

 

I definitely don't want to rug sweep... but she is literally complying with all demands, saying she'll do anything to fix it all, saying it's been over and she wants me.. etc. etc.

 

How do I not rug sweep? What actions do I need to take to make sure she is doing the work to fix it?

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I definitely don't want to rug sweep... but she is literally complying with all demands, saying she'll do anything to fix it all, saying it's been over and she wants me.. etc. etc.

 

How do I not rug sweep? What actions do I need to take to make sure she is doing the work to fix it?

 

Counselling, she needs to get to the root of why she cheated so it never happens again. She needs to understand your boundaries as well as the consequences for breaking them and once you draw your line in the sand you need to defend it. Get rid of anyone that facilitated her affair because they are not friends of the marriage. She needs to prove to you that she is safe as a partner, if you can't feel safe it's over. The onus is on her to make you feel safe, no matter what it takes.

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CantMakeThisUp

I know everything feels like a big suck ball but soak it up while you can if she's being nice to you. Your sex life will probably get way better and your relationship as a whole.

 

If you stay you'll probably get some mixed emotions later on when you get out of the funk and you really want to figure out where your future is. Maybe you'll be able to reconcile successfully if that's what route you want to take. Either way, good luck on whatever avenue you decide.

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Jersey born raised

How long have you bern married? How old are your children? What role has the OW played in the life of your children?

 

I get at some level why a guy might feel "well it is not like it is a guy". But guy or not this other relationship has leached a vital element of intimacy from cc. He has felt that void and it has caused him to question the validity of the marriage.

 

A spouse should never feel shut out and ignored and almost aiways feel to join in what ever the other spouse is doing. To be clear I am not saying you can't do something your spouse does not. Rather I am saying you welcome them if they decide to. A simlple example you get a couple of tickets to an event. Even though you know there is no way in hell the spouse will go you still offer to go with then first, every time the situation occurs.

 

That does not occur during an EA or PA. To protect the relationship the betrayed spouse is made to feel in adequate and foolish.

 

My first question is how does your wife truly feel about sexuality in general. Is she pushing to be at least bi-sexual enough to hold onto a "beard" to protect herself from being judged as a "lesbian". I get and support wanting to a strong sense of privacy but privacy in an issue like this in a marriage is wrong.

 

As to what is remorse and what does it mean. Christ there are a million and one explanation out there. Get the issue of base sexual orientation settled first. I've read many bu-sexual individuals (like a previous poster) simply say cheating is cheating. If she is a lesbian or primarily oriented to other woman you both need to accept it and move on in different direction.

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The worst part is the lying. Cheating is something that sometimes can be fixed. But the constant lying while you come to her every time with evidence... I just don't know how can you trust her again.

 

Now it's new, you're in shock, she's in shock because you caught her by surprise and with no pre prepared backup story. It's possible that now she's telling the truth (I doubt it). But what about tomorrow? And after tomorrow?

 

The future you give her is a future in which she is allowed to lie and get away with it. You've proved it. I could understand if she was cheating, got caught and confess. But no! She can tell you for 2 years that you're insane. that you're crazy, that he is disgusted by you paranoid, and you let it slip...

 

I believe that a serial liar is a serial liar for ever.

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How long have you bern married? How old are your children? What role has the OW played in the life of your children?

 

married 9 years, 3 children.. 2, 4 and 6. OW didn't play much of any role, more like an aunt that visited occasionally. Would come to a baseball game here and there and such. The physical part of the affair ended when the 4 year old was barely 2.

 

I get at some level why a guy might feel "well it is not like it is a guy". But guy or not this other relationship has leached a vital element of intimacy from cc.

 

yes it did. The OW had serious mental and emotional problems. She had PTSD, I won't go into why, and had just ended a 7 year relationship when her and my wife's contact began. This woman was like an emotional vacuum. Appearing extremely needy and needing help and fixing. My wife took an odd leap from being somewhat motherly, advise/support and such, to being in a physical and emotional relationship with her. The OW is 3 or 4 years younger.

 

 

My first question is how does your wife truly feel about sexuality in general. Is she pushing to be at least bi-sexual enough to hold onto a "beard" to protect herself from being judged as a "lesbian". I get and support wanting to a strong sense of privacy but privacy in an issue like this in a marriage is wrong.

 

I honestly believe her intense bond with this woman, who may have in fact been manipulating my wife to get what she wanted, especially considering my wife's mental state at the time, caused my wife to fall into a sexual attraction with her. I think my wife can find a woman on the street attractive looking, but not have any sexual thoughts. I think it was the emotional hose bond. I'd probably label it an emotional bi-curious episode. She has clearly stated many times in the last 48 hours she wants to spend her life with me and it was all a mistake and she was having mental issues at the time and blah blah.. I always make sure to repeat that I accept those answers but it's not an excuse for her choices.

Edited by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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The worst part is the lying. Cheating is something that sometimes can be fixed. But the constant lying while you come to her every time with evidence... I just don't know how can you trust her again.

 

Now it's new, you're in shock, she's in shock because you caught her by surprise and with no pre prepared backup story. It's possible that now she's telling the truth (I doubt it). But what about tomorrow? And after tomorrow?

 

The future you give her is a future in which she is allowed to lie and get away with it. You've proved it. I could understand if she was cheating, got caught and confess. But no! She can tell you for 2 years that you're insane. that you're crazy, that he is disgusted by you paranoid, and you let it slip...

 

I believe that a serial liar is a serial liar for ever.

 

Trust me, I get this. I've clearly stated to her this is by far the worst part of what she did. The thing is that many times I confronted her, the physical and main part of the EA had been over. I think telling me the fact that she slept with a woman caused her to bury it as deep as she could.

 

These confrontations were not wuss outs by me either. They were violent screaming matches in which I had no further concrete evidence to give and could only "accept" her excuse and end the argument.

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Since the sexual component is not the most devastating part of all of this for you then I think you have a good chance to reconcile. I think you need to at least try since she does show so much remorse (regret?) and you have 3 kids.

 

You also need to seriously be aware of the fact that she is still lying about the affair. They all do. She may still be in contact with OW and might still be seeing her. As for the sex - when it began, when it ended, where they did it, what they did - don't believe a word that comes out of her mouth. If you can get enough of the truth to satisfy you then be thankful and move on. She will take the truth about it to her grave. Good luck.

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Jersey born raised

Thank you for your answers CC. They where thoughtful. One other question: would you say your wife has a caretaker and people pleasing personality?

 

So perhaps you and your wife might be able to reconcile. Adultery is a decision commonly made as a result of a toxic environment both spouses contributed to. While each of you need to own and fix your own issues, the adultery is on the WS to fix. I seen adultery compared to using aviation fuel to put out a small kitchen fire.

 

Another poster made this point I think is true: you can never go back to the original marriage. That marriage lead to infidelity. You will need to build a new one.

 

Let's start with the issues you need to own. What are they?

Read the web site 5loveLanguages, take the Higgs Meyer personality test for both of you. See how both your answers match up.

 

Be well, be gentle with your words or actions but clear with their intent. Remember before you turn an opportunity down, get the opportunity.

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Jersey born raised

I would also caution not to put the issue of her base sexuality to bed to quickly. To be "out" requires a very strong personality. To willing take that step a closeted person may never find the strength.

 

Which begs the question of how can a heterosexual person have a healthy sexual marriage with a non-heterosexual person and vice or verse. Some one will come up short.

 

Focus on the infidelity not the orientation.

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ShatteredLady

I agree with most of the advise given here. I just wanted to add... I suffered REAL depression after the birth of my daughter & it was the most peculiar experience. Yes, it was depression, it was horrible but I've been situationally depressed at other times in my life. This was something completely different!

 

It's so incredibly hard to explain. I've said since that I was blessed that my kids were 'inside by bubble of crazy'. I now know why some women do horrific, unthinkable things when suffering with post natal depression. Even the colors of the world were different...it was like the tone & contrast were altered. I felt like I was on a different plain of existence, wandering around 'real people'.

 

My parents were staying with us at the time & neither they or my husband realized what was going on in my head!!

 

My adopted cousin had a similar but far worse experience. She was committed for a while. She had a lesbian relationship in the hospital. She has always been very sexual & VERY promiscuous but always with men. Since recovery she has never had another non-heterosexual relationship.

 

Obviously I don't know your wife or the truth of your situation. I just wanted to share my experiences. Based on my life I'd be tempted to consider this an affair like any other if she's convinced of her sexuality. Do you know how far, sexually, things actually went? Was it more of a romance? Does she now view the OW as a predator?

 

I'm a bs & for me the lies, gaslighting & trickle truth were the most painful things. My H was a different person, very cruel & cold. In my experience these things can change people beyond recognition. I'm so sorry.

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The hardest part is all the lying. That, and the realization that we just don't know people the way we think we do.

 

My advice to you would be to find out EXACTLY who you're married to. Sometimes you can find empathy for the broken parts of your mate, and even acceptance of them. But to do that, the broken parts need to really be identified and healed. That's the difference between recovery and "rug-sweeping".

 

I don't think this one gets fixed without a good psychoanalyst to help pinpoint the problems.

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it's so incredibly hard to explain. I've said since that I was blessed that my kids were 'inside by bubble of crazy'. I now know why some women do horrific, unthinkable things when suffering with post natal depression. Even the colors of the world were different...it was like the tone & contrast were altered. I felt like I was on a different plain of existence, wandering around 'real people'.

 

My parents were staying with us at the time & neither they or my husband realized what was going on in my head

 

Thank you for this SL, this is almost word for word what my wife relayed to me. I had a hard time believing what she was saying, but hearing such similar things from you helps a lot. She essentially said she was going crazy. She had entered her own personal detached crazy world where everyone was evil and trying to hurt her. The OW was the one person that was keeping her from doing something drastic. She was afraid to say anything because she believed she could have her kids and me taken away. It was hard to listen to that as anything but an exaggerated excuse, but your description is very close to what she said.

 

I honestly believe the OW took advantage of her mental state to take what she wanted when she was also freshly wounded. And then stuck her emotional hose to my wife and never let go.

 

It's hard to separate empathy from disdain in my wife's situation and to gauge levels of fault. My wife made her own choices but it's also potentially clear she was possibly preyed on.

 

I don't think even now she would recognize the OW as a predator or I would liken it more to a parasite. But she has agreed to sever all contact for life. So I at least think she sees the OW a little more clearly for what she is.

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Choices. Life is governed by them and their consequences. Right now, what you see your wife expressing is not remorse, but fear. She is afraid the gravy train is about to leave without her. All those things she has agreed to, well, they don't amount to squat. She is a clever person as demonstrated by the level of deception she directed at you, and for how long (and how cold bloodedly) she was able to carry it out. She is not out of contact with the other woman, and maybe has even planned this deception with her. I would bet they will cool it for a while, but you need to be vigilant - they will contact each other even if it is by placing a candle in the window at night Paul Revere style - one if it is still silent running, two if it is ok to relax.

 

I really wish you luck, but if you intend to stay with her plan on a partially open marriage with your wife paying a nocturnal visit to the other woman every Wednesday night to get it out of her system so she can be a good wifey to you the other six days of the week, whilst you stay home with the kids...:(

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A question you might consider asking her: if this A has been over 2 years, why were you saving the email correspondence and taking such steps to hide it?

 

If truly remorseful and repentant, why is she keeping momentos of this A? You might consider asking her what other knickknacks are associated with the A and ask her to toss them out. Her response may be informative.

 

I'm suggesting she's still in WWs head even after 2 years. Look at the A from her gf's point of view. Gf spent a lot of time being number 2 in reality if not in your WWs fantasy world. Gf may be a lesbian, but your wife is more likely bi than lesbian. I have heard that's a frustrating match for the lesbian.

Thus the potential that gf worked to end it. What caused the A to end, according to WW?

 

Finally, after several,years of deceit, why are her words now entirely truthful?

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HereNorThere

You're making some rookies that we've all made, so let me save you some time and headache.

 

Within the first few sentences of your post you were making excuses for her and rationalizing the situation to death. By the end of your post you are determined to make it work. You do realize she was planning on lying to you for the rest of your life, right? You do know she's so obsessed that it would eventually start up again, right? She's not feeling guilty about hurting you, she's feeling guilty because she got caught. You saw how easily she lied to you with no remorse and she didn't magically change into a different person overnight. And most importantly, you hold her deepest, darkest secret and could expose her at any moment. I'd be actively trying to make up with you as well if I was in the closet with no plans of ever coming out.

 

She cheated and lied to you because she wanted to pursue her own interest and have a better sex life. Sure, emotions got involved, but they always do. This didn't happen once or accidentally, she actively plotted against you and made you question your own sanity. She even went as far as about lying her sexuality. How do you think she'd feel if she found out you and your buddies were have sex? Think she'd be okay with that? Think she would ever trust you to be alone with another man again? Think she'd keep your secret and enable you? You know she wouldn't. Rumors of your gayness would be floating around Facebook within minutes of her finding evidence.

 

No more rationalizations or excuses. Your spouse has been having homosexual relationships for years behind your back. You literally know NOTHING about her. She might as well be a stranger to you. You haven't had long enough to determine whether or not you can live with this, you don't even know who she is. A few months from now when you haven't slept in weeks, lost 30 pounds and can't look at her without wanting to throw up, you may think differently about your decision to reconcile.

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bubbaganoosh

My advice is take everything she says with a grain of salt. She had an affair with another woman. If it was a guy then it's a different matter but when she was with another woman, then how does a guy compete? You can't.

 

This is why I'm a one and out type of person, You cheat your gone. I cheat and deserve the same in return.

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Please stop blaming the OW. Your wife is the one who made a conscious decision to cheat on you for an extended period of time.

 

Is she sorry she did it or just sorry she got caught.

 

What consequences have you laid out for your wife?

 

Does she work? Do you have a prenup?

 

And why is it important to stay with a gal that promised you the world until someone else interested her? That's a betrayal that's really unforgivable - yet you're willing to forgive so quickly - why?

 

You really need to assess the marriage - your wife never intended to be honest = there is no foundation for the marriage.

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HereNorThere
I have a question. Would feel equal pain if it was another man? I was trying to feel out your situation and am not sure if it would bother me as much having another woman involved than another man. It's definitely a unique situation and I wish the best for you.

 

There's just something about a (spouse) letting another man take a few jabs in her if you know what I mean.

 

A few years back I had a gorgeous lesbian friend that I eventually had stop hanging out with because she would scare my straight girlfriends. She was more aggressive than any of my male friends. She would have been in jail in a long time ago if she had been a dude, no doubt. I constantly had to remind her that most of my friends are straight, but she looked me dead in my eyes and said "that's okay HereNorThere, I date straight girls too."

 

Lesbians are the most monogamous group on the spectrum and have the least amount of partners in their lifetime on average. They also have exclusive access to a woman's world and insight that you will never have. This friend of mine preyed on those traits and could swoop your girlfriend before you ever saw it coming.

 

Oh you think it would bother you less if it was a woman, but this isn't sorority night, make-out at the bar and drive the guys wild lipstick lesbian action. This is some really psychologically deep stuff that you can't really even fathom or compete with.

 

The truth is that if OP stays, he will just have to accept that his wife could be having affairs because there's just no way you could ever monitor something like this. He will always have to wonder whether or not her new Pinterest follower wants to trade recipes or is planning to run off with her. It's easy to notice your wife's opposite sex friend, but her girlfriends, you'll just never really know the true nature of their relationship.

 

Maybe, maybe just maybe, if his wife came completely clean about EVERTHING, he could have some sort of peace of mind, but she never, ever will. Seriously, how many people do you know just "turned gay" mid life? If the truth ever comes out, he'll more than likely discover she's had these relationships her entire sexual life and she was never just a platonic friend with this woman. Unfortanely she probably has too much shame surrounding her sexuality to ever admit the full to herself, let alone a man.

Edited by HereNorThere
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