Back to the Shack!

[StormySeas]

I've avoided this site for a couple of years. For me, reading about others going through the pain of an A was like ripping a bandaid off and bringing all of the emotions of my life spilling back out. But I'm drawn back a little bit right now...mostly driven, I think, by similar thoughts that I've now read posted recently around "when are you normal again", or "when do you feel better?"...or some of those other questions. I'm also drawn back to this site because the stories of so many of you meant so much to me when I was trying to assess my own situation. Your stories, thoughts, kindness, etc. really helped me to survive.

 

My H had an affair with a friend of ours in 2010. Denied it when we entered counseling that year, and denied it for years. Truth came out in the fall of 2012 -- not because of my H, because of a mutual friend. Two months of detail trickle almost killed me that fall, but finally, I seemed to have all of the details that I wanted by late 2012.

 

It's now 3 years later, and so much has continued to change. In case it's helpful for anyone to understand my path, and my thoughts, I've sort of summarized them below. It's helpful for me to write this down -- to see in black and white what my honest thoughts really are right now.

 

1) We separated in the fall of 2012. I kicked my H out of the house for 2 months. He came back into the house when I had to get stitches one evening after chasing our son around the park and running into the monkey bars in the evening dusk. 5 stitches from a plastic surgeon later, my H was back in our house taking care of me and our son. It kick-started our reconciliation.

 

2) We have gone to many, many, many therapy sessions. Together and separate. I stopped going regularly about a year ago, instead returning for "tune-ups". H still goes regularly.

 

3) We had another son at the beginning of 2014. He was born almost 2 years to the day after learning the early details of the A. Him and his brother have helped repair my heart. On days when the A comes to the front of my mind, they help me to move past it with their love, snuggles and smiles. The decision to have another child was tough. At the end of the day, I wanted another child for me. Even if we could never get totally over my H's affair, and needed to divorce, I would have our two boys and be happy. In some respects, it was a selfish decision by me. My H was willing to have another child, but was very nervous about it -- concerned that he wouldn't step up to the plate the way he didn't with our first, concerned that we didn't have the relationship bandwidth to support another little guy, etc. Thankfully, it has worked out about as well as I could have imagined. My H stepped up with #2--did everything he should have done the first around, and has been rewarded for his efforts with a bond with our second that it took many many years to get with our first after he was focused on his A during much of our first son's second year of life. The difference in the bond has really shown my H how little he did with our first and how much he missed out on.

 

4) I still think about my H's affair almost every day, if not every day. I am forever changed by it. I used to feel like the luckiest person in the world. Wonderful upbringing, great first 10 years of adulthood, and no challenges -- until the A. Now my parents say that a little bit of my spark has been extinguished. So when I read people asking if everything ever feels normal again, the answer is "heck no". You reach a new normal, but you are forever changed. In some ways, for the better. In some ways, not. I miss the old me a little bit -- the person that just looked at the world and assumed that it was going to be a good day. In some respects, my H's A made me grow up. Removed my blinders. Taught me a heck of a lot about myself. But there is not one relationship around me that is unchanged as a result of the affair. Everything is different and will always be different. It's just how it goes. My relationships with everyone that knows about the A -- my parents, inlaws, brother, friends, etc. -- is different.

 

5) I sometimes have to work to love my H. He is contrite every day. I'll never say "there are no secrets", but we have opened our lives to each other in every way I can think of that is reasonable over the long-term (ie I don't have a private detective tailing him) for him to show to me that nothing like his A will ever happen again. I will never say never...will never have the same trust...but we're working hard to make the trusting at least as simple as possible in a very complicated situation.

 

6) While I sometimes have to work to love my H, we have done a much better job over the last three years of finding time just for the two of us. Dinners out without friends. Massages at home. Holding hands watching Homeland. Crying together when someone has an A on tv and a lot of old feelings come spilling out. Talking. I will never love him the way that I used to love him. It just isn't in the cards. Nobody could hurt me as much as he could and be honored with that same untarnished love. My love for him is different -- it ebbs and flows when I have tough days and the details of the A become too much. It's tough recently because our second son is entering the age when my H kicked off the EA that became a PA. So there are a lot of pictures that I don't want to look at of our first son because I can tie those moments to moments where my H was heavily into focusing on the OW. Maybe that's part of what has driven me back to the Shack recently -- wanting to read about others, see how others are doing, feel a bit of the pain that I work hard to keep at bay. Writing all of these seems to be making more clear how due I might be for a therapy tuneup.

 

7) The hardest part of everything for me is that everyone in my life that was impacted by the A has long since moved past it. If I told my best friends that I still think about some detail or event related with the A almost every day, they would react in horror. If you haven't been through this directly, you don't understand how lasting it is -- the lasting damage, the lasting thoughts, the sub conscious that brings the past up in dreams, etc. I mean it's really been astounding to me. I've read the books that indicate it often takes five years for you to feel emotionally okay, and I am surprised that seems like the spot on truth. There is no carpet that you can sweep the details under and move on -- you have to deal with all of your emotions head on, and keep dealing with them over time. This is all part of the "forever changed". Or at least it is for me.

 

8) Reconciliation has worked for me up to this point. I think I would be the bitter at life cat lady if I hadn't at least tried to see if the situation was fixable. Part of my journey to mental health was focusing on whether this was a solvable situation or not. I would characterize my relationship with my H today as a bunch of pieces held together with Elmer's glue. You know that crappy school glue that isn't the strongest? That's us. Our relationship is not held together by super glue, although our two boys are about the strongest bonding element that I've seen. But I really see it more as being held together by Elmer's glue -- and there are pieces that fall off that have to be constantly re-glued. So that's what my H and I spend our time doing...trying to make sure that we are doing whatever needs to be done to avoid too many of the pieces of our relationship falling apart...consistently trying to re-glue ourselves back together. It's a lot of work. So far, it's been worth it.

 

So that's my story. If I can help anyone else out there, let me know. Many of you helped me, and I'm forever thankful for it. Thankful for the ones that kindly tried to push me into realizing that I did not know the whole truth (and may never have the whole truth); thankful for the ones that less kindly said I was an idiot to think about reconciling with a snake; thankful just for anyone that ever commented at all. This forum was a saving grace for me, that helped me to think and to start to heal.

[minimariah]

hi!

 

i have a question!

 

is the OW still in your lives or did you go strict NC?

did you ever confront her about the situation seeing how she was your friend?

[StormySeas]

She is not directly in our lives, although she works at the same law firm as one of my best friends, so I non-directly hear about her. She texted my H about a year and a half ago with something like "How are you?" He had removed her contact info from his phone, but took a pic of the text and called and said he thought it was her. I still have her contact info, and confirmed it was. I called her at the office, she answered, and I told her to never call, text or contact anyone in our family again. She hung up on me. I do not know of any other calls.

 

When I first learned about the details of the A, I called her after drinking too much wine one night. I very casually said that I wanted to have lunch with her so that we could talk about why she thought it was okay to sleep with my H. She said she had no idea what I was talking about and hung up on me. I called back and she wouldn't answer. That is the extent of it. The fact that I haven't seen her in person is one of the many reasons that all of this still haunts me. I dream about running into her. I daydream about running into her. I worry about running into her. We live in a big city that often feels like a small town, and I am shocked that we haven't run into each other yet. We came very close at a luncheon about 18 months ago. I turned away to walk down a hall just when she was entering a room. I wonder what would have happened then if we'd run into each other in a very professional setting.

[minimariah]

i read your previous threads & you said she did get into a serious relationship at the time of their affair - is she still with that man or is she single?

 

also, i wanted to ask you - how did you find out about the affair? the first time, what were the signs that you caught on to?

 

and also, when you have triggers - how do you deal with them? do you take a timeout alone or do you discuss it with your husband?

 

sorry for so many questions, i hope i'm not over the line and thank you for your insight. it's very valuable to me.

[qubist]

I followed your initial story, first of all congrats on your second baby.

How does your H feels? Do you think he is still hurt? Does he still talk about the A?

BTW, you are stronger than what you think. It just took you too long to put your strength where it should be put

[StormySeas]

To the best of my knowledge, she's single. I try not to ask many questions about her to my friend, mostly because I try really really hard not to care what she's up to. I do often envision running into her for the first time when she's with a boyfriend/fiance/husband/etc. and how that might shape our interaction, but knowing me, I'd just run away.

 

A friend told me that the affair was physical, which led me to do some detective work, which led me to messages between them, a picture of her, etc. I'd say that 98% of the actual details of the affair that I have are directly from my H over two painful trickle truth months. Not fun.

 

At this point, the triggers are less painful and more annoying than anything. So I'll trigger, and find myself heading down a slippery slope of thought, and just have to busy myself with something else -- work, our kids, going outside, etc. The problem with knowing all of the details of the A is that when I trigger and really think about everything that happened, I can make myself sick to my stomach that I'm still with the man that did all of that. So I have to remind myself of some of my H's good attributes, and recent examples of him being a good human being, and that helps.

 

Sometimes I just have rough nights though, where I'll have a bad dream or something and that'll make me angry for a day or so, and usually I'll tell my H about it, cry about it, etc. He does his best to support me on those days/nights, mixing in apologies with support. There has never been one iota of "this happened a long time ago and you need to get over it..." from him. We've read the same books that discuss how long recovery takes, and that may have helped.

[StormySeas]

Qubist, my H just seems very grateful to still be in our house, and to still be able to see our kids every day. I think he feels that our relationship is much stronger now than it ever was, and to him, I don't think I'd be far off base in saying that he might tell someone that life is better than ever now, especially with our second little guy around providing smiles. Of course that often frustrates me -- where I feel like the one saddled with the lifetime of scars from this, and he is able to compartmentalize that as a time in his life that he is very ashamed of, but it's over and done with and won't happen again. I tend to wallow, whereas he tends to just move on and forget. So the only time he talks about the A is if I bring it up and need to talk about something.

[dichotomy]

Some very real honest statements by you about what happens after an affair to the BS - even after many years.

 

Many of them hit home.

 

Best wishes.

[katielee]

thank you for your post - number 7 - how long it takes to get over this - really hits home for me. I don't think friends or therapists can grasp this unless it has happened to them.

The fact that you had to hear it from someone else and uncover the facts for yourself, that is so very damaging. Did your husband ever say why he denied and lied for so long? That is abusive, IMO. Do you feel confident that he has worked on himself enough so that he'll tell you uncomfortable truths in the future?

[qubist]

I do believe that he has his share of pain too. The only difference is he caused it while you had to deal with it. The fact that he agreed to have anther child is a sign that he had realized that he wanted you and his family and the A was a brutal mistake. Take care of yourself and the 2 little men but do not forget about H too, he needs your care as a wife too.

[StormySeas]

Katielee, I firmly believe that my H lied for so long because he thought we would get divorced if I knew the truth. He did not think that he could tell me the truth without sacrificing our marriage and his relationship with our son. From his perspective, the truth was going to hurt too much, and he thought that by being a better person every day, by going NC with the OW, by re-dedicating himself to us, that the truth didn't matter. For him, some of the most helpful resources were the books we read -- books that basically said that for us to have a shot at healing, he had to give me what I asked for. Some people don't want details, but I did. So he had to give them to me.

 

The trickle truth certainly felt like a very abusive two months. Like two months of torture. The outright denial for two years, felt more like trying to avoid taking responsibility for his actions and being a coward who really thought it would be better for everyone if he just started being a better person without us dealing with what actually happened.

 

I will never swear that I know the whole truth...that naivety is long gone. I demanded the whole truth, and I know what he's told me. If five years pass and the OW comes up to me one day and says "but did you know we did..." and tells me something new, I'm honestly not sure how I would react. Part of me puffs out the chest and says "then that...would...be...IT..." and part of me honestly just doesn't want to know any more at this point. That's sort of what has happened to me a bit -- resigned to the fact that there could be something more that would blow up the new life we've worked hard to create, and powerless to protect myself from it other than knowing that it could happen, and therefore probably being much more guarded than otherwise. I think that's part of why the spark is gone a bit, and won't come back. Again, I'm just different. And in many respects it sucks, but I don't feel like I would be any less guarded in a relationship with someone else either -- it's just part of the new me.

[katielee]

that's part of why the spark is gone a bit, and won't come back. Again, I'm just different. And in many respects it sucks, but I don't feel like I would be any less guarded in a relationship with someone else either -- it's just part of the new me.

 

Hubby and I just had this discussion last night. We aren't 100% vulnerable with each other either. He said he'd be very sad if I died, but not crushed like before the affairs. We both said we'd go to new relationships with this same guarded status so what would be the point in divorce if we really love each other? It is sad what betrayal does to people. I'm so sorry your spark is gone.. I get it.

[Midwestmissy]

I'm so glad you posted this. It's incredibly insightful and helpful. I'm one year out from finding out the "whole" truth, which was preceded by 10 months of hellish trickle. So 24 months of lies. I also believe my h was afraid of losing the marriage and that was why he trickled. It was so much more damaging. He just got into the habit of raging and blaming me.

 

What would you say was the most important thing you did for yourself to heal and be able to reconcile?

[Mr. Lucky]

I dream about running into her. I daydream about running into her.

 

I'm guessing you mean figuratively though would understand if your meaning was literal ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[StormySeas]

Hahahahaha...I cannot disclose what might be happening in those escapes from reality, Mr. Lucky!

 

Midwestmissy...the most important thing? For me, there wasn't one thing. I had to approach it my way, which meant that I educated myself (visited with a divorce lawyer, read a ton of books and spent a lot of time here and elsewhere on the web reading); went on with my life (if I'd spent just one day hiding under the covers like I wanted to, I think my spiral down could have been tough to start); focused on my son; started to get pedicures and take an hour for myself here and there; threw the watch my H got me the weekend after he slept with the OW for the first time in his face and bought myself a really nice new watch that reminds me every day to be strong for me; and bought new shoes and clothes (retail therapy never worked for me before, but it helped for some reason with all of this). What I did not do was engage in any sort of damaging behavior...I didn't call old boyfriends, head out on the town, etc. I spent little time talking to others that found out about the affair outside of my H and our therapist. Hearing about every little thing my parents or brother didn't like about my H since the beginning may have helped them to vent on, but it wasn't going to help me. So I really formed a protective bubble around me, and tried to figure out what the heck to do next each day.

[Cloudcuckoo]

Yours is a remarkably humbling story to read, and one that many here will assimilate with and appreciate the frankness of....thank you

 

 

I admire your frankness and your daily struggles are palpable.

 

 

I wish you continued strength, sincerely.

 

Cuckoo

[ladydesigner]

Katielee, I firmly believe that my H lied for so long because he thought we would get divorced if I knew the truth. He did not think that he could tell me the truth without sacrificing our marriage and his relationship with our son. From his perspective, the truth was going to hurt too much, and he thought that by being a better person every day, by going NC with the OW, by re-dedicating himself to us, that the truth didn't matter. For him, some of the most helpful resources were the books we read -- books that basically said that for us to have a shot at healing, he had to give me what I asked for. Some people don't want details, but I did. So he had to give them to me.

 

The trickle truth certainly felt like a very abusive two months. Like two months of torture. The outright denial for two years, felt more like trying to avoid taking responsibility for his actions and being a coward who really thought it would be better for everyone if he just started being a better person without us dealing with what actually happened.

 

I will never swear that I know the whole truth...that naivety is long gone. I demanded the whole truth, and I know what he's told me. If five years pass and the OW comes up to me one day and says "but did you know we did..." and tells me something new, I'm honestly not sure how I would react. Part of me puffs out the chest and says "then that...would...be...IT..." and part of me honestly just doesn't want to know any more at this point. That's sort of what has happened to me a bit -- resigned to the fact that there could be something more that would blow up the new life we've worked hard to create, and powerless to protect myself from it other than knowing that it could happen, and therefore probably being much more guarded than otherwise. I think that's part of why the spark is gone a bit, and won't come back. Again, I'm just different. And in many respects it sucks, but I don't feel like I would be any less guarded in a relationship with someone else either -- it's just part of the new me.

 

StormySeas you have really hit home with how hard all of this has been. I really identified with the bold. I am in the same exact spot.

 

Best wishes that things continue to get better for you both in time.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Stormy seas, yours is a story of courage and strength in the face of great trauma. I think only a woman could display such strength and fortitude in the face of such adversity. I have been reading stories of male BS on here and I find many of them to be completely overwhelmed and devastated, unable to face everyday life and on the verge of depression and hopelessness. I commend you for displaying such courage and strength in this situation.

I do have a question for you. From what you have written it is apparent that your marriage is not in a very happy place. It seems that it could come apart at any moment. Also you are always going to have an element of distrust with respect to your husband. In such circumstances do you think it has really been worth it getting back with your husband? You seem to come across as a strong woman and someone who could be very happy on your own without your husband who cheated on you and caused you such grief. So why did you do it? For the sake of your first son or because deep down you loved your husband deeply and could not really envision a life without him? You don't have to answer if it is too painful for you. Also do you think your husband has realised the magnitude of the gift that you have given him? Has he been truly remorseful and rectified or overcome the flaws within him which led him to stray in the fort place? Thank you!

[Lois_Griffin]

I have to say I agree with JustaGuy, as well. It sounds as though the biggest thing holding this marriage together is your kids.

 

It sounds as though you've basically settled for this fractured, cracked facsimile of what used to be you prior marriage. More so, with a man who really wasn't much of a father at all the first time around.

 

If I'm being honest, your story just reinforced for me that the best decision I ever made was to leave a cheater and not look back. And I don't mean that in a snarky way at all, I really don't. I just feel bad for you because you sound as though you're trying to find a way to be ok with settling for your new 'normal.'

[katielee]

you're trying to find a way to be ok with settling for your new 'normal.'

 

i wonder if this is something every long term marriage goes through. Not infidelity, but, at times, disappointment. And then maybe a coming back together with a more realistic view... JMO - from everything I've read and observed.

[StormySeas]

Hi Just a Guy,

Thanks for the kind remarks. I think that it's difficult to convey in a written synopsis of a few years the true characteristics of my marriage. So let me respond in a bit more detail to you and Lois_Griffin (great character!).

 

All marriages are tough. A marriage with someone that cheated on someone else is beyond tough. My initial reason for staying in our marriage and trying to reconcile was 100% because I could not imagine giving up our son 50% of the time, which is what the court ruling would have been where we live. To me, that is unimaginable, and it meant that our marriage would have to be really really broken, to the point of being emotionally damaging every day for me to have made the decision to leave without at least trying to make it work.

 

Do I have any regrets working through it and being in the position that I'm in now? Not at all. Not one. I wake up to our kids each day and go to sleep with our kids in the house each night. That is what is most important to me.

 

I also really enjoy my H's company on most days. We are fragile and vulnerable, and our relationship is work, mostly because of the strains from the baggage of the A. But we have a ton in common, laugh a lot, love a lot, and generally are in a pretty good place. But we aren't, and will never be in the place that we were in before our first son and before the A -- the place where my H could be standing across the room and we'd meet eyes and just give a little nod and smile, and you could almost feel the love between us. We had a little bit of magic before, and a little spark. That's gone. What we have now is a loving and respectful relationship, damaged by an A that creates some mistrust and vulnerability around it.

 

Is it perfect? No. Could I personally be happier with someone else? I don't know. I can't imagine being happier in any instance where I see my kids half the time. I'm also rational enough to look at the relationships around me, look at all the men that I know, and look at my single friends, and see if I think the grass is greener elsewhere, and for me, it isn't. And I am trying to find a way to be okay with my new normal, Lois_Griffin. Absolutely, no doubt about it. Together, my H and I are trying to build a new normal where we're both as happy as possible given we have a history that just cannot be forgotten.

 

I know people aren't supposed to be able to change, but my H seems changed. He derives happiness from our kids and me now that he never did before. But so much in our life has changed -- since his A, all of his close male friends have gotten married and have kids or will soon have kids. Nobody is out on the town, drinking and having fun like we used to. That has made a huge difference too. Nobody is out having fun that he's missing out on, and he never seems to miss that -- now, when the guys have a night out on the town, it's usually a steak dinner and everyone is in bed by 10pm, and they all seem to like it that way. I think he looks at a divorce as the worst thing ever, especially knowing he would be the cause, which our kids would likely figure out at some point. At dinner every night we now "say 3 things you're thankful for" (our therapist's idea to show both of us that we really do have so much to be grateful for around us, despite all of the pain of the A) -- and both of us usually have tears in our eyes by the time we get to the third one because for the first time in our lives, we get that happiness in life, marriage, parenthood, etc. isn't a given, and we generally are just very thankful for things like health.

 

So I stayed because of our son. And I'm still staying because of both our kids. But my H has worked hard to try to be a reason that I'm staying too. Some days, he is. And some days, the pain of what happened is too much. But for me, the good outweighs the bad, and I have yet to see grass that looks so much greener that an alternative makes sense for me. I'm about as eyes wide open as I've ever been to trying to assess my situation and what is best for me, and I feel like this is it. I think that's where part of the sadness comes from...from knowing the magic from before, and the just happy alive feeling...and now being in a more jaded, less joyous place.

[nightmare01]

I also really enjoy my H's company on most days. We are fragile and vulnerable, and our relationship is work, mostly because of the strains from the baggage of the A. But we have a ton in common, laugh a lot, love a lot, and generally are in a pretty good place. But we aren't, and will never be in the place that we were in before our first son and before the A -- the place where my H could be standing across the room and we'd meet eyes and just give a little nod and smile, and you could almost feel the love between us. We had a little bit of magic before, and a little spark. That's gone. What we have now is a loving and respectful relationship, damaged by an A that creates some mistrust and vulnerability around it.

 

Passed 15 years post Dday this year. And you just described the relationship I have with my WW.

 

It is what it is. Wishing and hoping won't make it better. Sometimes life serves up a crap sandwich for us to eat.

 

I didn't D my WW for similar reasons - I didn't want OM to be anywhere near my daughters.

 

Life gives us choices, and sometimes none of those choices are good. All we can do is choose the least bad among them, and just do the best we can in those circumstances.

[Dancewithme]

OP, I admire your strength.

 

Your description of why you stay in your marriage pretty much sums up what happens in a long- term marriage as well, even one that does not have the shadow of an affair looming over it. The work may not be as hard as what you've had to do, but there is still work involved.

 

We are all human, and over time, the ones we love can hurt us, become a little less shiny and new, or disappoint us in some way. No one ever said marriage would always be unicorns and rainbows. But we have to decide, like that advice columnist used to say a long time ago, "am I better off with him or without him?" Only we know what us best for us, and our families, and if our spouse is willing, we should fight like hell for "us".

 

An elderly woman who had just celebrated her 50th wedding anniversary was asked the secret to staying married that long. She simply replied " Dont get divorced". She implied that marriage wasn't always pretty.

 

OP, stay strong. I hope things between you and your husband continue to mend and your family thrives.

[Midwestmissy]

I can relate so much to what's been written here. I do not want to see my kids less than I do now. I do not want them sleeping under the same roof as another woman I do not know. I kept up my end of the marital and parenting agreements so why should the kids and I endure a huge lifestyle change because of a 6 month coworker affair?

 

I know my h is ashamed, he's disclosed his affair and apologies to our kids and to friends and family, owning all the fall out from his mess. He didn't fall in love (I'm not minimizing, this would have been a really hard thing for me to read, hear, etc) and he's digging deep to answer all the whys. The affair ended 2 yrs ago, before I knew about it, and he hasn't had any contact with her for 18mos, save 2 undramatic attempts on her part, so there's no evidence of anyone rekindling or wanting to. He moved us very very far away from where the whole thing went down, back to a place where the kids want to be (and are thriving) and where I'm surrounded by support and friends of the marriage. Im in a very safe place in that sense. So I'm not getting any indication that reconciliation was a mistake. He's committed to improving himself for the kids regardless of our marital status.

 

I do miss being proud of him. I have loved him since I was a teenager and loved being married to him for over 20yrs. The difference now is that I know that my loving him will not "conquer all", he has to love me back in word and action.

[StormySeas]

Dancewithme, my parents have been married for almost 45 years. My father turned 70 last month, and his birthday is the same day as their anniversary. I was giving a speech at his birthday dinner, and obviously was honoring the fact that it was their anniversary as well. I didn't script the speech, just started talking. I talked about how with each passing day in my adult life, I have so much more appreciation and adoration for the marriage that my parents have had because I now understand just how much work it has taken from each of them. I know that they have each thought about divorce at various points through the years...life is too challenging and throws curveballs that you can never plan for...so the "don't get divorced" or live by your vows is about the best advice that I've heard.