Depression as a precursor?

[RoseVille]

Can having depression and anxiety "cause" or make it more likely than one will engage in infidelity? If one is suffering from depression, are they in greater danger of cheating?

[Morro72]

Peter Kramer, author of "Listening to Prozac," wrote a book titled "Should You Leave?" which includes a discussion of the effect of depression on relationships. It sheds some light on the question you've asked.

[RoseVille]

Peter Kramer, author of "Listening to Prozac," wrote a book titled "Should You Leave?" which includes a discussion of the effect of depression on relationships. It sheds some light on the question you've asked.

 

Can you summarize his views on the question I asked?

[MuddyFootprints]

Peter Kramer, author of "Listening to Prozac," wrote a book titled "Should You Leave?" which includes a discussion of the effect of depression on relationships. It sheds some light on the question you've asked.

 

Thank you for that direction. Since I experienced more than a little depression before, during and after my affair, I am curious about what he has to say.

[Morro72]

Can you summarize his views on the question I asked?

I don't own the book and his views are expressed in terms of fictional examples of people in therapy so they aren't in easily-quotable form. However, the basic message was that depression distorts how a person sees his or her partner and their relationship, and is, in his belief, responsible for a large proportion (half, maybe) of serious marital problems.

 

The book should be available in libraries or via interlibrary loan. Also, there may be reviews of the book which provide useful detail.

 

ETA: there is a good review in the 12/18/1997 NY Times. The review does not answer your question, but it does give a good sense of the book.

Edited May 23, 2015 by Morro72

[viciouscircle]

Can having depression and anxiety "cause" or make it more likely than one will engage in infidelity? If one is suffering from depression, are they in greater danger of cheating?

 

Often infidelity and affairs are short term escapes from "real life". They create short term highs. If your depressed you could be more in danger of cheating because your looking for something that makes you feel good even if only temporary.

[Morro72]

Often infidelity and affairs are short term escapes from "real life". They create short term highs. If your depressed you could be more in danger of cheating because your looking for something that makes you feel good even if only temporary.

And going along with that, I believe one of the points Kramer makes is that a depressed partner may be more inclined to find fault with the other person. Not a good combination, and I'm fairly sure that Kramer takes the position that depression, if present, needs to be treated before doing anything about the relationship.

 

(Apologies for trickling this out - I read the book a long time ago and it's taking a while to dig it out of my overburdened memory.)

Edited May 23, 2015 by Morro72

[todreaminblue]

it really depends on the person.......some people when depressed are less likely too engage in sex some are more likely to...what depression does is warp perspective and reality....so it would make sense that you make mistakes..self control is something you dont have when depressed..and when you go on anti depressant medication ...in some people it takes away boundaries and feelings you have......eventually..there was this one particular woman who met a guy in a psyche ward and then ....when feeling better wanted nothing to do with him...i heard his side of the story though...i myself would prefer to stay away from co ed psyche wards when i am not myself....because i cant say no...i sometimes have no voice...and no one listens anyway...or thinks i am delusional a guy is cracking onto me.....delusions of grandeur...so they up the dose of meds.....and i have no voice again.....one nurse asked me just once.....deb speak up is soemone harassing you..........i said....no everything is ok.....so trapped in a psyche ward with mentally ill horny men...not fun.........and i have known of mentally ill people in psyche wards who become very sexually active on meds or when sick.....and others who sit and stare at flowers for hours..it really depends on the depression and or other factors that are out of control and warped./.... and the person.......deb

[viciouscircle]

And going along with that, I believe one of the points Kramer makes is that a depressed partner may be more inclined to find fault with the other person. Not a good combination, and I'm fairly sure that Kramer takes the position that depression, if present, needs to be treated before doing anything about the relationship.

 

(Apologies for trickling this out - I read the book a long time ago and it's taking a while to dig it out of my overburdened memory.)

 

Ive never read the book but my stbx suffered from severe depression at times its part of the overall problem of depression, they look for reasons and fault. Quite often they can make small issues big, they hang onto issues and tell themselves that why they are depressed. They don't want to look for the core reason of the depression.

 

 

This is often why the depression needs to be treated and "under control" most times before relationships or other issues can be address.

[Sassy Girl]

I think it can increase the likelihood. But lots of people have depression and anxiety and don't cheat. So it still comes down to choice.

 

So does it "cause"? No.

Bad choices "cause" it.

[flowergirl14]

My wh was so depressed because he was strapped with a loving wife and beautiful kids. Oh and he wanted to run off with his ap. To think that I would pray that his depression would resolve itself. Unbeknownst to me he's f**cking someone who wished that he didn't have a wife and kids.

[RoseVille]

And going along with that, I believe one of the points Kramer makes is that a depressed partner may be more inclined to find fault with the other person. Not a good combination, and I'm fairly sure that Kramer takes the position that depression, if present, needs to be treated before doing anything about the relationship.

 

(Apologies for trickling this out - I read the book a long time ago and it's taking a while to dig it out of my overburdened memory.)

 

But what is one to do if it's the relationship that has triggered the depression? In that case, wouldn't working on the relationship kill two birds with one stone?

[RoseVille]

My wh was so depressed because he was strapped with a loving wife and beautiful kids. Oh and he wanted to run off with his ap. To think that I would pray that his depression would resolve itself. Unbeknownst to me he's f**cking someone who wished that he didn't have a wife and kids.

 

I understand your sarcasm, but that's not really my question.

 

And respectfully, a person can be clinically depressed despite having a wonderfully supportive and beautiful family. If your H was truly depressed, you're minimizing and invalidating his pain with the sarcasm. His depression doesn't excuse his A, but I do believe it's this sort of breakdown that largely contributes to one spouse seeking an escape.

[RoseVille]

Ive never read the book but my stbx suffered from severe depression at times its part of the overall problem of depression, they look for reasons and fault. Quite often they can make small issues big, they hang onto issues and tell themselves that why they are depressed. They don't want to look for the core reason of the depression.

 

 

This is often why the depression needs to be treated and "under control" most times before relationships or other issues can be address.

 

But the question I just posed remains: what if it's the relationship that triggered the depression?

 

There seems to be a one-way presumption about the chicken and the egg going on here. Relationship problems can be the very cause/trigger of depression in the first place. So while you say they "don't want to look at the code reason of the depression" and that the "depression has to be treated before the relationship issues can be addressed," you're fully assuming that the depression caused the relationship issues, and not the other way around. It can, and often does, go the other direction.

[velvette]

But the question I just posed remains: what if it's the relationship that triggered the depression?

 

There seems to be a one-way presumption about the chicken and the egg going on here. Relationship problems can be the very cause/trigger of depression in the first place. So while you say they "don't want to look at the code reason of the depression" and that the "depression has to be treated before the relationship issues can be addressed," you're fully assuming that the depression caused the relationship issues, and not the other way around. It can, and often does, go the other direction.

 

 

Medical science has not yet been able to fully explain depression.

 

 

Some believe there is a genetic predisposition. Some believe it can be triggered in response to traumatic events, anger turned inward, feelings of loss etc.

 

 

I think it will be some time before science comes up with the answer.

 

 

Regardless of the cause, most people agree that the results of depression are irrational thinking, so you really have to stabilize the depression imo before you can work on anything you think is the cause. Once depression takes hold it is an animal unto itself imo regardless of the cause.

 

 

But, as to the original question, I think it depends on the degree of depression whether it can contribute to infidelity. I think if it is mild to moderate depression perhaps someone will pursue infidelity to self medicate much like someone would drink or take drugs. Severe depression, I cant really see that as the energy wouldn't be there to navigate infidelity.

[RoseVille]

Yeah, I can totally see how an A can be a type of self-medication.

[velvette]

Yeah, I can totally see how an A can be a type of self-medication.

 

Right and just to followup on your thought that the relationship is causing depression....I would say its not the relationship per se, but your own belief that you cant do anything to change what you are unhappy with in the relationship or to get out of the relationship if that is what you believe is appropriate. So, in other words you own belief that you are helpless(which is usually an irrational belief) which causes the depression.

 

 

Depression at its root imo and lots of experts is a disease where the thought process is disordered. My guess is one day science will prove that to be the case and be able to identify(and hopefully consistently treat) the mechanism by which it occurs.

[Sassy Girl]

Agree with this^^

 

Depression is largely biological, but can sometimes have environmental factors also. Chemicals in the brain are out of balance. Hence why it's treated with medication. It's my belief that whilst the latter may be true, the former is a constant with leads me to believe that the relationship doesn't cause depression without some predisposition to it.

 

But that's just my opinion.

[cocorico]

But the question I just posed remains: what if it's the relationship that triggered the depression?

 

There seems to be a one-way presumption about the chicken and the egg going on here. Relationship problems can be the very cause/trigger of depression in the first place. So while you say they "don't want to look at the code reason of the depression" and that the "depression has to be treated before the relationship issues can be addressed," you're fully assuming that the depression caused the relationship issues, and not the other way around. It can, and often does, go the other direction.

 

There are two types of clinical depression - endogenous depression, triggered by internal chemical imbalances, and reactive depression, triggered by external factors. A professional taking a full case history and doing appropriate tests will be able to identify which is the most likely.

 

In the case of endogenous depression, the previous advice is sound - treat the condition, then examine the R.

 

If the depression is reactive, the situation which sparked the depression needs to be addressed, as well as more general support for the depression (talk therapy, pills, etc as deemed appropriate by the professional).

 

My H was diagnosed with reactive depression brought on by his toxic M and the clinical team recommended MC as part of his treatment. Of course she refused to go. But his depression no doubt did contribute to his susceptibility to the A.

[elaine567]

Signs and symptoms of depression include:

 

 

1. Feelings of helplessness and hopelessness. A bleak outlook—nothing will ever get better and there’s nothing you can do to improve your situation.
   
2. Loss of interest in daily activities. No interest in former hobbies, pastimes, social activities, or sex. You’ve lost your ability to feel joy and pleasure.
   
3. Appetite or weight changes. Significant weight loss or weight gain—a change of more than 5% of body weight in a month.
   
4. Sleep changes. Either insomnia, especially waking in the early hours of the morning, or oversleeping (also known as hypersomnia).
   
5. Anger or irritability. Feeling agitated, restless, or even violent. Your tolerance level is low, your temper short, and everything and everyone gets on your nerves.
   
6. Loss of energy. Feeling fatigued, sluggish, and physically drained. Your whole body may feel heavy, and even small tasks are exhausting or take longer to complete.
   
7. Self-loathing. Strong feelings of worthlessness or guilt. You harshly criticize yourself for perceived faults and mistakes.
   
8. Reckless behavior. You engage in escapist behavior such as substance abuse, compulsive gambling, reckless driving, or dangerous sports.
   
9. Concentration problems. Trouble focusing, making decisions, or remembering things.
   
10. Unexplained aches and pains. An increase in physical complaints such as headaches, back pain, aching muscles, and stomach pain.
    Depression Symptoms & Warning Signs: How to Recognize Depression Symptoms and Get Effective Help
    

When you look at the symptom of real clinical depression, they are hardly conducive to infidelity are they?

Apart from perhaps No. 8 - Reckless behaviour.

Most truly depressed people would not have the motivation, confidence or the sex drive to start an affair.

 

I think there are a lot of unhappy people in marriages/relationships - not clinically depressed, just unhappy and sad.

Real depressed people are still depressed when they get promoted, win the lottery or marry the woman/man of their dreams - the happy events have little or no effect on their depression.

 

In contrast, unhappy people become happier when they feel their life has taken a better turn.

 

I guess those who embark on affairs and claim they are "depressed" are just unhappy and sad with their lot in life.

An affair is a "cure" for unhappiness, not true depression.

[Lois_Griffin]

I guess those who embark on affairs and claim they are "depressed" are just unhappy and sad with their lot in life.

An affair is a "cure" for unhappiness, not true depression.

Yup, yup and yup.

 

Therapists are so damned quick to 'diagnose' depression in just about everyone who walks through their doors. Hey, it keeps them in business, so there you go. The U.S. seems to have the highest number of 'depressed' people all running around popping pills left and right that it isn't even funny. It's downright pitiful.

 

I often wonder how ALL those people - all over the country - who lived through the Great Depression selling apples and pencils on the street for a nickel, having nothing to eat a lot of the time, living in squalor and abject poverty, not being able to afford basic medical care etc. et.c. etc., all managed to do it without popping all those pills people 'need' to take today. Why, it's a Christmas miracle, is what it is.

 

I think 'depression' is just another excuse people can hang their bad behavior on because no one wants to take accountability for their actions anymore.

 

I agree with the opinions here that say people 'self medicate' by having affairs when they're feeling down, bored and unhappy, not because they're supposedly depressed.

 

JMHO of course.

[autumnnight]

But what is one to do if it's the relationship that has triggered the depression? In that case, wouldn't working on the relationship kill two birds with one stone?

 

It would seem so.

 

The comments so far seem to imply that when a person is depressed, they see marital problems that are not really there, and then they become tempted to cheat.

 

Interestingly, WHILE I was married to my neglectful, passive, intimacy-withholding spouse, I was on a pretty heavy dose of antidepressants and anti-anxiety medications. Within a year of leaving my marriage, I was off ALL medication and depression was no longer a problem.

 

So apparently MY husband's flaws were not all in my head.

 

So while depression does not cause cheating. Like Sassy Girl said, it is bad choices. Sometimes a spouse is depressed BECAUSE of the crappy marriage. However, cheating should still not be an option.

[velvette]

Yup, yup and yup.

 

Therapists are so damned quick to 'diagnose' depression in just about everyone who walks through their doors. Hey, it keeps them in business, so there you go. The U.S. seems to have the highest number of 'depressed' people all running around popping pills left and right that it isn't even funny. It's downright pitiful.

 

I often wonder how ALL those people - all over the country - who lived through the Great Depression selling apples and pencils on the street for a nickel, having nothing to eat a lot of the time, living in squalor and abject poverty, not being able to afford basic medical care etc. et.c. etc., all managed to do it without popping all those pills people 'need' to take today. Why, it's a Christmas miracle, is what it is.

 

I think 'depression' is just another excuse people can hang their bad behavior on because no one wants to take accountability for their actions anymore.

 

I agree with the opinions here that say people 'self medicate' by having affairs when they're feeling down, bored and unhappy, not because they're supposedly depressed.

 

JMHO of course.

 

 

Insurance companies, at least in the US, don't cover therapy because you are unhappy or dissatisfied with your marriage. They require a diagnosis.

 

 

The one most often handed out for that purpose is depression.

[autumnnight]

Yup, yup and yup.

 

Therapists are so damned quick to 'diagnose' depression in just about everyone who walks through their doors. Hey, it keeps them in business, so there you go. The U.S. seems to have the highest number of 'depressed' people all running around popping pills left and right that it isn't even funny. It's downright pitiful.

 

I often wonder how ALL those people - all over the country - who lived through the Great Depression selling apples and pencils on the street for a nickel, having nothing to eat a lot of the time, living in squalor and abject poverty, not being able to afford basic medical care etc. et.c. etc., all managed to do it without popping all those pills people 'need' to take today. Why, it's a Christmas miracle, is what it is.

 

I think 'depression' is just another excuse people can hang their bad behavior on because no one wants to take accountability for their actions anymore.

 

I agree with the opinions here that say people 'self medicate' by having affairs when they're feeling down, bored and unhappy, not because they're supposedly depressed.

 

JMHO of course.

 

I hope to God you're not a therapist....or a "friend" of anyone who actually suffers from clinical depression.

[velvette]

It would seem so.

 

The comments so far seem to imply that when a person is depressed, they see marital problems that are not really there, and then they become tempted to cheat.

 

Interestingly, WHILE I was married to my neglectful, passive, intimacy-withholding spouse, I was on a pretty heavy dose of antidepressants and anti-anxiety medications. Within a year of leaving my marriage, I was off ALL medication and depression was no longer a problem.

 

So apparently MY husband's flaws were not all in my head.

 

So while depression does not cause cheating. Like Sassy Girl said, it is bad choices. Sometimes a spouse is depressed BECAUSE of the crappy marriage. However, cheating should still not be an option.

 

 

I don't see it that way. Any situation that you are unhappy about could lead to depression. But, its not the situation itself, its how you perceive it or think about it.

 

 

At the root of most depression is a sense of helplessness/hopelessness to change whatever you are feeling bad about. Hence why you felt better once you took action.

 

 

When you feel bad it may be a distinction without a difference, but its important information imo to understand that its often how we view something that is making us feel bad rather than the actual situation.