Found out about affair

[northernlight]

Hi everyone,

 

I recently found out that my wife has been having an affair online, and I don't know what to do or how to deal with this.

 

Some background information: My wife has a "fake" Facebook account which she uses for various internet promotions etc. I know about this account and she's been very open about it, who she talks to etc. What has happened, however, is that one of the guys she's been talking to has become more than a friend. Nothing physical's been going on, because the guy is in another country on the other side of the world, but they appear to have been having long daily conversations on Skype, something that has been going on for at least 6 months, maybe longer.

 

I've suspected that something's been going on since around Christmas, because she started acting weird. Up until then she kept the affair very well under wraps, and has been going about her daily life like normal. But at the end of last year she started going in to our computer room to have long conversations with what she said was either one of her friends, or one of her sisters. I thought that was odd, because she usually doesn't have long conversations on the phone with any of them. She also started sitting and chatting on her phone for extended periods of time, and would usually suddenly go to the kitchen and sit there and chat.

 

About a month ago things went sour and the guy basically dumped her and does not want to talk to her anymore, and my wife's been depressed ever since. When I asked her what happened she says she's been having a falling out with a family member, and that she doesn't want me to get involved with whatever is going on between them.

 

She's been talking a lot to me, however, and has been asking some pretty strange questions. One evening I pieced it all together and realized not only has she been having an affair, but also who the guy she's been having an affair with is. The other day I felt that I needed to get confirmation, so I looked through her Skype history on her iPad, where I saw phone calls between the two of them since early September, as well as some chats that gave it all away.

 

I haven't said anything about this to my wife yet, and I don't know if or when I should. I understand the reasons why this affair happened, and I take ownership for that, but I don't know how to deal with what she's been doing. I feel like I've been stabbed with a knife to my heart, and I don't have anyone to talk to about this. Should I mention anything to her? How can we deal with this and come out stronger?

 

Thanks for listening.

[Nawlins]

Northernlight,

So sorry that you are going through this, but you’ve come to the right place as there a lot of good people here who can help you. First, I suggest you collect and store as much evidence of the affair as you can before you confront your wife. After doing this I would suggest talking, calmly, with your wife about what you know and asking if counseling would help your relationship.

[gettingstronger]

I am sure its hard to find out your wife was giving romantic time and energy to another- I am sorry this has happened-

 

You say you understand why this happened- care to share that info- it may help with advice-

 

Without knowing the whole backstory, the best I can say is when you approach her, do it firmly with as much evidence as you can find but as calmly as possible- I know we have had some knock down, drag out arguments that get us no place-the calm, truthful ones are the most productive-but sometimes those are a bit harder to come by-

[Friskyone4u]

You taking ownership for her online affair is the absolute wrong answer and will insure that any action you take will be the wrong action. The first thing you have to decide is what you are going to do if she does what she is probably going to initially do and tell you that you are imagining things. The obvious thing to do is have the proof printed out, but don't be surprised if she gives you some incredulous idiotic explanation.

So here is what you should do

(1) sit her down calmly and tell her you know exactly what she has been doing online. Then wait for her bull ****.

(2) after you tell her you do not believe anything she has told you, you tell her that you will attempt (notice I said attempt) to work through this IF she uses this opportinity to be honest and tell you everything.

(3) YOU DO NOT TELL HER YOU FORGIVE HER and that you will do anything she wants to save your marriage. The minute you make that statement you are taking blame for her lies and deceit

(4) You do tell her that you cannot control her actions but that you can control you're and that you refuse to live in a marriage with more than two people in it.

You think, notice I said think, it is over. You do not know if there are any more OM out there that she is communicating with.

Now if you confining to her pleading for her to stop , letting her just say it's over, and then make believe everything is fine, there is a very good likelihood that the next online OM may not be in another country and it may turn physical and your opportunity to save this marriage will be greatly diminished.

You have 50% of the marital problems. She owns her online affair in its entirety and you are not responsible for that .

[badkarma2013]

Hi everyone,

 

I recently found out that my wife has been having an affair online, and I don't know what to do or how to deal with this.

 

Some background information: My wife has a "fake" Facebook account which she uses for various internet promotions etc. I know about this account and she's been very open about it, who she talks to etc. What has happened, however, is that one of the guys she's been talking to has become more than a friend. Nothing physical's been going on, because the guy is in another country on the other side of the world, but they appear to have been having long daily conversations on Skype, something that has been going on for at least 6 months, maybe longer.

 

I've suspected that something's been going on since around Christmas, because she started acting weird. Up until then she kept the affair very well under wraps, and has been going about her daily life like normal. But at the end of last year she started going in to our computer room to have long conversations with what she said was either one of her friends, or one of her sisters. I thought that was odd, because she usually doesn't have long conversations on the phone with any of them. She also started sitting and chatting on her phone for extended periods of time, and would usually suddenly go to the kitchen and sit there and chat.

 

About a month ago things went sour and the guy basically dumped her and does not want to talk to her anymore, and my wife's been depressed ever since. When I asked her what happened she says she's been having a falling out with a family member, and that she doesn't want me to get involved with whatever is going on between them.

 

She's been talking a lot to me, however, and has been asking some pretty strange questions. One evening I pieced it all together and realized not only has she been having an affair, but also who the guy she's been having an affair with is. The other day I felt that I needed to get confirmation, so I looked through her Skype history on her iPad, where I saw phone calls between the two of them since early September, as well as some chats that gave it all away.

 

I haven't said anything about this to my wife yet, and I don't know if or when I should. I understand the reasons why this affair happened, and I take ownership for that, but I don't know how to deal with what she's been doing. I feel like I've been stabbed with a knife to my heart, and I don't have anyone to talk to about this. Should I mention anything to her? How can we deal with this and come out stronger?

 

Thanks for listening.

 

 

*****************************************************************

 

Im sorry you are here..This is a club Nobody wants to belong to...

 

The reasons her Affair transpired ARE YOUR WWs and hers ALONE... I do not know the state of your marriage before her A...but it does not matter...She chose to emotionally attach herself with another man...and then Lie and deceive you...and your are questioning whether you should confront her...Really, come on man you have enough proof of her lying and her EA with another man and her Pining for him...to confront..

 

Bringing the A into the light usually does 1 of 2 things...mostly it kills it..secondly it may drive them closer...if it drives her closer..you do not IMHO have much of a chance...

Regarding Infidelity.."The best defense is a damn good Offence."

 

And you had better go on the offence ..if you have all the proof you say you have....

 

I am not saying to confront her with threats or with great anger...she will just clam up and you will find out nothing...But show her what you have and that "You beyond a shadow of a doubt she is having an EA...

 

You will then have to make up your mind to get tough do the 180 and give an ultimatum on what it is going take for your marriage to continue...If you do not ...I will promise you this will never stop with this OM and anyone else in the future that pops her cookie....

 

Good luck...There are many outstanding posters here who have gone thru Emotional Hell and lived to tell us about...Listen to all and then make a decision to do what is best for YOU not anyone else, you...You know the answer already...it will come to you soon, and your direction will become clear..

 

Badkarma

Edited February 28, 2015 by badkarma2013

[road]

Save all of the evidence and place it where WW can not get it.

 

 

Then expose the affair to WW's parents and siblings. If possible to find out who the OMW is then expose her as well.

 

 

Then confront the WW.

 

 

Do not skip any steps or change the sequence.

[Try]

I understand the reasons why this affair happened, and I take ownership for that

Do not take ownership of your wife's affair. You are each 50% - 50% responsibly for your marriage, but she is 100% responsible for her affair. As humans none of us are perfect, so there is always an excuse for an affair if you are looking for one, but that is what they are excuses. The very fact that you are willing to take responsibility for your actions disproves the excuses, since it shows that you are a good spouse that she could have worked with at improving the marriage if she focus the energy she gave to her affair partner on the marriage.

 

Should I mention anything to her? How can we deal with this and come out stronger?

Yes you should mention this to her or it will happen again. As for coming out stronger, once trust is lost, marriages rarely come out stronger. Sorry that you are here.

[BetrayedH]

...I understand the reasons why this affair happened, and I take ownership for that...

 

If you really understood her reasons for having an affair, you wouldn't be taking ownership of them. Even if your marriage was "bad," you were in the same marriage and didn't cheat. Deciding to have an affair is a personal problem, not a marital one. No marriage is perfect.

 

You are just willing to own this because you're in fear.

 

You're right to feel betrayed. This wasn't how you agreed to work on marital problems.

 

All that said, infidelity doesn't have to be an unforgivable offense. But the forgiveness comes after she owns the affair and demonstrates true remorse, not before.

[BlackHat]

I will be harsh, but I will try to open your eyes:

 

What has happened, however, is that one of the guys she's been talking to has become more than a friend. Nothing physical's been going on, because the guy is in another country on the other side of the world, but they appear to have been having long daily conversations on Skype, something that has been going on for at least 6 months, maybe longer.

 

As a cheater, one thing I would do is to give my partner a half true story. Applied to your case, it is entirely possible that this guy is the "platonic" who takes the fall for the real affair she is having with yet another guy.

 

I've suspected that something's been going on since around Christmas, because she started acting weird. Up until then she kept the affair very well under wraps, and has been going about her daily life like normal. But at the end of last year she started going in to our computer room to have long conversations with what she said was either one of her friends, or one of her sisters. I thought that was odd, because she usually doesn't have long conversations on the phone with any of them. She also started sitting and chatting on her phone for extended periods of time, and would usually suddenly go to the kitchen and sit there and chat.

 

Have you check the phone records for calls out of the country? If not, you might be dealing with much more than you think.

 

About a month ago things went sour and the guy basically dumped her and does not want to talk to her anymore, and my wife's been depressed ever since. When I asked her what happened she says she's been having a falling out with a family member, and that she doesn't want me to get involved with whatever is going on between them.

 

Unless your wife is 15 in real or mental age, she would not be depressed about being dumped by someone she never met.

 

2 strikes in the direction of she having a real affair covered by the platonic one.

 

She's been talking a lot to me, however, and has been asking some pretty strange questions. One evening I pieced it all together and realized not only has she been having an affair, but also who the guy she's been having an affair with is. The other day I felt that I needed to get confirmation, so I looked through her Skype history on her iPad, where I saw phone calls between the two of them since early September, as well as some chats that gave it all away.

 

Phone calls to outside the country?

 

I haven't said anything about this to my wife yet, and I don't know if or when I should. I understand the reasons why this affair happened, and I take ownership for that, but I don't know how to deal with what she's been doing. I feel like I've been stabbed with a knife to my heart, and I don't have anyone to talk to about this. Should I mention anything to her? How can we deal with this and come out stronger?

 

Thanks for listening.

 

Again, as a cheater let me tell you this: Marriage is trust. The trust is gone, the marriage will soon follow.

 

Say you forgive her. Next time her phone goes out of battery you will think she is having an affair. Next time she spends 5 more minutes on the phone. Next time she takes too long a shower or buys a new perfume.

 

Have you ever read the Stephen´s King novel "Pet Cemetery"? Your wife is no longer your wife. It looks like her, speaks like her, but she as you know her is gone. She was buried on the indian cemetery and has come back bad.

 

BEFORE YOU TAKE ANY ACTION think about what you want to do with your life. YOU INDIVIDUALLY.

 

This is what you cannot do:

- Think in terms of "if she changes".

- Think in terms of you and her.

 

Think what you want for your life. Do you want to be with the "new" her and the ethernal lack of trust? Can you deal with that? Do you want to start anew?

 

If you take the divorce road, talk first with an attorney. Do not move a finger without one. Do not go cheap on this, please.

[sandylee1]

Save all of the evidence and place it where WW can not get it.

 

 

Then expose the affair to WW's parents and siblings. If possible to find out who the OMW is then expose her as well.

 

 

Then confront the WW.

 

 

Do not skip any steps or change the sequence.

 

Exposure may not be suitable in all cases. The affair has ended, so is exposure here just to make her feel worse?

 

I know cases where the A gets exposed and when the couple attempt to reconcile, others are not so forgiving. Especially parents and siblings. They often go on to ostracise the WS, which affects the entire family. It's all well and good saying these are the consequences, but when it affects others, I'd think twice.

 

 

 

If there is another betrayed spouse, then expose it to them.

[harrybrown]

This will continue to eat you alive.

 

You need to let it out. Either talk to your wife about it or go to an attorney or a counselor. Depends on what you want to do, stay or leave.

 

What do you want? She has not confessed. Without some changes, she still has the same boundaries where she cheated. The next OM could be so much closer.

 

Can you stand the pain again and again? You really need to figure out what you want, but do not sweep this under the rug.

 

Hope you find some peace. What would she do if you had a A?

[northernlight]

Thanks for the replies. I've read all of them and here are some thoughts and more information.

 

Some background to why I believe that I am partly to blame for creating the environment which led to her cheating: About two years ago our sex life went through a slump. I turned to porn as a release, and she found out about it. She wasn't happy, and we had some major arguments about it. I believe that this caused a rift between us. I have also many times been emotionally unavailable to her over the past couple of years. I've been physically at home, but not always emotionally, and this is something she's repeatedly complained about. Needless to say, the marriage wasn't that great at that point in time.

 

The funny thing though, is that once she started the affair, our marriage also got better. We had sex again and she was generally in a better mood. I just thought that she had finally gotten over the porn thing, but boy was I wrong about that.

 

I'm also certain that she has had no physical affair with anyone, I've been thoroughly checking.

 

One reason why she had this affair is likely due to her being extremely unhappy with life in general. We met while we both were living in Australia. She was studying at the time, and after graduation she couldn't find a job. It took about a year before we called it quits. She absolutely hated living there, so we decided that we would move back to my home country in Europe. I told her that in order for her to be able to get a job she needed to learn my language. She attended language school for a couple of years, and has learned it fairly well, but she doesn't seem to want to master it. As a consequence she's not able to find a job.

 

We lived for a few years in my home city and she hated it there and wanted to move. Then about two years ago we moved to another city because I got a good job offer. It took her a year to start hating this place as well and now she hates it here and want to move somewhere else. I asked her if we could move to her home country then, because at least she'll be able to get a job there, but that's not an option because she hates it there and would never want to move back home. She says she wants to move to the US, but she knows that it's very hard to do that.

 

The guy she had an affair with is from the US, and I think that she had some fantasy of getting a guy in the US and using him to be able to move there, and she's probably depressed because her dream of living somewhere else got shattered. I don't really know what she's thinking though, because in reality that won't happen because if it did her family would disown her due to her having an affair.

 

I know that her having an affair is her choice and that's not my fault, I just never thought that she'd be having an affair. It's bizarre. Her father has been having affairs and her mother knew about it, and as a child she saw the effect it had on her mother and she hates her father for it, and for as long as I've known her she's always been angry with her father and men in general for cheating on their wives. And then she goes ahead and does the same thing herself. It boggles my mind.

 

What hurts me the most at this point in time is that to me it seems like she doesn't care whatsoever about me. I feel like a comfort blanket for her, someone whose shoulder she can cry out on, but ultimately will be discarded once something better comes along. If she did care about me and our marriage, wouldn't she try to focus on making that better then? She's said a couple of times that this is a great opportunity for us to get closer again, but that only lasts for a day, then she's back to feeling sorry for herself and ignoring me.

 

I'm going to follow your advice on collecting all the evidence that I can. I will also speak to a divorce lawyer, just so that I am prepared if it comes to that. I will present my findings to her and see what happens. I hope that we can overcome our difficulties. I still want to be married to her, because I love her, so that will be priority number one for me. If that doesn't work out, then I have no other choice than to file for divorce. I also won't tell her family about anything, because that will lead to them disowning her. She's from a pretty conservative asian family, and if they found out that she's been having an affair they will feel like she's been dishonouring them. If it leads to divorce, however, then I will be honest with them and tell them the reasons for the divorce.

[sandylee1]

Maybe mastering your language isn't that easy. The fact that she learnt it to the extent she has sounds good.

 

Sometimes when chatting online like she was with the OM, it can make you feel horny, so that's probably why things seemed to improve. She needs to say whether or not she wants to remain in this marriage. If her whole heart isn't in it, then time to pull the plug before children come along.

 

Once you do confront her, decide whether marriage counselling is something that could help, but between the two of you, maybe make a short list of what you need /want of each other. You were emotionally unavailable to her, what do you want of her?

 

Does she thinks she can get a job in the US?

[Try]

Some background to why I believe that I am partly to blame for creating the environment which led to her cheating: About two years ago our sex life went through a slump. I turned to porn as a release, and she found out about it. She wasn't happy, and we had some major arguments about it. I believe that this caused a rift between us. I have also many times been emotionally unavailable to her over the past couple of years. I've been physically at home, but not always emotionally, and this is something she's repeatedly complained about. Needless to say, the marriage wasn't that great at that point in time.

Porn is a weak excuse, as studies show that 66% of men will view Porn at least once a month, and porn does not even come close to cheating when compared. "Emotional unavailable" is also a weak excuse, because as human this will happen from time to time. Your wife is following the cheaters script in getting you to falsely accept blame for her cheating. Stop accepting blame for her cheating and deal with it head on.

[fellini]

Nonsense, total nonsense.

 

Porn might not be cheating to you but it sure can be betrayal to a partner.

 

Just as masturbation is not cheating, but can be considered betrayal if you are denying sexual intercourse with you partner but getting off every day behind their back.

 

How anyone can claim that "emotional availability " is weak excuse in a marriage obviously doesn't know what marriage is.

 

OP has clearly defined the borders of his responsibility and those of the affair. He said it perfectly: he recognises his role in the environment that may have contributed to his wife's decision to look elsewhere.

 

For once let's just call a spade, a spade.

 

 

 

 

Porn is a weak excuse, as studies show that 66% of men will view Porn at least once a month, and porn does not even come close to cheating when compared. "Emotional unavailable" is also a weak excuse, because as human this will happen from time to time. Your wife is following the cheaters script in getting you to falsely accept blame for her cheating. Stop accepting blame for her cheating and deal with it head on.

[northernlight]

Maybe mastering your language isn't that easy. The fact that she learnt it to the extent she has sounds good.

 

Sometimes when chatting online like she was with the OM, it can make you feel horny, so that's probably why things seemed to improve. She needs to say whether or not she wants to remain in this marriage. If her whole heart isn't in it, then time to pull the plug before children come along.

 

Once you do confront her, decide whether marriage counselling is something that could help, but between the two of you, maybe make a short list of what you need /want of each other. You were emotionally unavailable to her, what do you want of her?

 

Does she thinks she can get a job in the US?

 

Of course learning a new language is always challenging, but my language is closely related to English, so that makes it easier. I understand that it might not be possible to master it 100% because of things like grammatical genders that only a person who speaks the language as his or her mother tongue can get right every time. What I mean is getting to the point where she can use the language professionally, and she's just not there yet. I've suggested many times that perhaps we should speak my language at home instead of English, so that she'll become fully immersed in it, but she always refuses. She thinks that all employers should just accept that she speaks English instead, but unfortunately that's just not possible.

 

I was emotionally unavailable partly because the sex issue, partly because I feel that she doesn't take enough responsibility in our marriage and her own life, and partly because when I open up to her she often either talks over me or becomes judgemental. I basically feel like she doesn't really want to listen to my feelings and thoughts. I feel like all she wants to hear from me are happy thoughts, never any negative thoughts, whereas she likes to spend hours talking about her troubled childhood and her troubled life. Sometimes it becomes exhausting for me to listen to, and I begin to zone out, especially after a rough day at work.

 

She thinks she can find a job in the US, mainly because she speaks English, and I have no doubt that if she applies herself, she'll find something. The problem is that she takes rejection very hard, and after a few failed attempts at finding a job she just gives up. This is what happened while we were in Australia, and that's why she couldn't find a job there.

 

Porn is a weak excuse, as studies show that 66% of men will view Porn at least once a month, and porn does not even come close to cheating when compared. "Emotional unavailable" is also a weak excuse, because as human this will happen from time to time. Your wife is following the cheaters script in getting you to falsely accept blame for her cheating. Stop accepting blame for her cheating and deal with it head on.

 

She said that after my porn use, she thought that I didn't want her. I said that's not true, I've always wanted her, but she's the one who was pulling away. That's of course no excuse for me to use porn, but I think that it's a problem that could be handled by open and honest discussion. Of course all of this has been coming out over the past few weeks, after her affair had ended. It's nothing that she's been communicating with me before, maybe if she did it could have stopped the affair from happening.

[fellini]

OP. Your wife has never been happy, based on your post: anywhere. Your wife never feels at home. Period. Like people I know who are never satisfIed with the homes they buy, changing houses even two years, always saying, "oh that one looks perfect, let's move" and then quickly begin to resent it, and look elsewhere, the problem seems to be internal.

 

Seems she needs help in finding home in herself, but not a city, the real concept of home, where you feel safe and secure and whole. She has to stop looking outside and start dealing within: her internal base happiness. She needs to connect with what she has, not what she hasn't. Her husband is the best person to help her with this. Change one thing: change the way you approach your situation with her, really try to meet her and probably the rest will follow. doing whatever it is the two of you have been doing obviously hasn't worked. It would be insane to think moving again would solve anything. Change ONE thing in the way you 2 relate and follow through. But change, real change, not just try something out.

 

More on this therapy googling Bill O'hanlon's "Do one thing different"

[northernlight]

OP. Your wife has never been happy, based on your post: anywhere. Your wife never feels at home. Period. Like people I know who are never satisfIed with the homes they buy, changing houses even two years, always saying, "oh that one looks perfect, let's move" and then quickly begin to resent it, and look elsewhere, the problem seems to be internal.

 

Seems she needs help in finding home in herself, but not a city, the real concept of home, where you feel safe and secure and whole. She has to stop looking outside and start dealing within: her internal base happiness. She needs to connect with what she has, not what she hasn't. Her husband is the best person to help her with this. Change one thing: change the way you approach your situation with her, really try to meet her and probably the rest will follow. doing whatever it is the two of you have been doing obviously hasn't worked. It would be insane to think moving again would solve anything. Change ONE thing in the way you 2 relate and follow through. But change, real change, not just try something out.

 

More on this therapy googling Bill O'hanlon's "Do one thing different"

 

Thanks for the tip, I'll check it out.

 

And you're right, the problem is within herself and I've tried to tell her that many times, especially when we were living in my home town. She went on and on about how awful the place was and that we'd be better off staying somewhere else. I told her that if a person is miserable everywhere, then it doesn't matter where the person moves, he or she will still be just as miserable in the new place. She was miserable at home, she was miserable in Australia and she was miserable in my home town. We moved, and now she's just as miserable as she's ever been. I keep telling her to focus on what she has, not on what she doesn't, but it never seems to go through. Perhaps some individual therapy would do her good? I've actually suggested that, but she doesn't want to. She says that probably the therapist will send her to the mental hospital. I just hope that one day she'll wake up and realise that she should stop running.

[fellini]

Okay, much clearer. But i still get the impression you are offering her solutions - although good ones - to her problems. They are hers in a way, but insofar as they affect the marriage, they are both your problems. Obviously you cannot be happy, as her husband, if she is not. Perhaps the issue is the strategy rather than the well meaningness of telling her what's wrong. Maybe you need to support her in a process of self discovery into her not feeling settled or at home. In short you need to be her therapist or she needs to feel the strength to find one herself.

 

Now I live in a foreign country as well, and therapists here do not speak my language, and those that do, frankly, not well enough. So I'm stuck myself in reconciliation relying entirely on what I can find on Internet to work through what would be better worked through with IC. She may well be in the same boat. Or merely reluctant to try therapy. It's my feeling that if you can provide that support for her, really get her confidence that you want to help the marriage, not just cure her, then it is more rewarding on the other side of the issue. Sure mistakes will be made, but find something simple and solid to derail the current state of affairs (NO pun intended) and you might find that when the train no longer runs on a tired old set of rails that the mystery and new terrain is itself what creates the solution.

 

Other than Ohanlon, I have also found Esther Perel enormously invigorating : "Mating in Captivity: Unlocking erotic intelligence", has an excellent chapter on "The shadow of the third" which might well help you to understand her online affair.

 

I think, as she is also European like yourself, she brings a much less dramatic view of infidelity than you will get in LS which in a nutshell is almost exclusively trauma based therapies and thus is a therapy almost exclusively based on the victim.

 

 

Thanks for the tip, I'll check it out.

 

And you're right, the problem is within herself and I've tried to tell her that many times, especially when we were living in my home town. She went on and on about how awful the place was and that we'd be better off staying somewhere else. I told her that if a person is miserable everywhere, then it doesn't matter where the person moves, he or she will still be just as miserable in the new place. She was miserable at home, she was miserable in Australia and she was miserable in my home town. We moved, and now she's just as miserable as she's ever been. I keep telling her to focus on what she has, not on what she doesn't, but it never seems to go through. Perhaps some individual therapy would do her good? I've actually suggested that, but she doesn't want to. She says that probably the therapist will send her to the mental hospital. I just hope that one day she'll wake up and realise that she should stop running.

Edited March 1, 2015 by fellini

[northernlight]

Okay, much clearer. But i still get the impression you are offering her solutions - although good ones - to her problems. They are hers in a way, but insofar as they affect the marriage, they are both your problems. Obviously you cannot be happy, as her husband, if she is not. Perhaps the issue is the strategy rather than the well meaningness of telling her what's wrong. Maybe you need to support her in a process of self discovery into her not feeling settled or at home. In short you need to be her therapist or she needs to feel the strength to find one herself.

 

Now I live in a foreign country as well, and therapists here do not speak my language, and those that do, frankly, not well enough. So I'm stuck myself in reconciliation relying entirely on what I can find on Internet to work through what would be better worked through with IC. She may well be in the same boat. Or merely reluctant to try therapy. It's my feeling that if you can provide that support for her, really get her confidence that you want to help the marriage, not just cure her, then it is more rewarding on the other side of the issue. Sure mistakes will be made, but find something simple and solid to derail the current state of affairs (NO pun intended) and you might find that when the train no longer runs on a tired old set of rails that the mystery and new terrain is itself what creates the solution.

 

Other than Ohanlon, I have also found Esther Perel enormously invigorating : "Mating in Captivity: Unlocking erotic intelligence", has an excellent chapter on "The shadow of the third" which might well help you to understand her online affair.

 

I think, as she is also European like yourself, she brings a much less dramatic view of infidelity than you will get in LS which in a nutshell is almost exclusively trauma based therapies and thus is a therapy almost exclusively based on the victim.

 

You might be right, I have probably gone about it the wrong way. The problem is that I don't know how to give her the help she needs in a way that will actually help. She has a lot of baggage from her childhood to deal with, and I've been trying to be there to the best of my abilities, but eventually it gets very exhausting.

 

She's actually not European, she's Asian, and comes from a very conservative culture where women who cheat are basically disowned from their families, and that's why it's so baffling to me that she would actually go ahead and have an affair, knowing very well what the consequences would be.

 

I think in regards to therapy, I think she just doesn't like the idea of it, again coming from a conservative asian culture where things like therapy is seen as something that's useful only for crazy people. I believe that we can find therapists here that know English well enough to help her.

 

Thanks for your input, I appreciate it, I just have a lot on my plate to deal with right now, and I hope that we'll be able to come out of this with an improved marriage.

[fellini]

Okay. My comment about infidelity was actually meant more to be about how you would take this as a man, i.e. a european man without all the baggage of places that treat infidelity in a likewise fashion.

 

So I understand your point. Maybe the first step is really just a baby step: not so much about actually helping her, as to finding a way for the two of you to see you are both in this together. And see what happens from there.

 

There are some here that will insist that the only sell is the hard, tough love sell. "Change or we divorce"... worse, "I want a divorce.. - let's see her panic and change". But I think these are tantamount to provocation and their long term - possibly even short term - results will be to put a rift between two people. No one wants to live with knowing they changed because a noose was hanging at the door. And I certainly wouldn't want to know the only reason my WW is smiling is to stop me from shoving her out the door.

 

I think your specific case is more subtle, and you probably have an enormous amount of leeway to make this work.

 

Good luck with it which ever way you choose to go.

 

You might be right, I have probably gone about it the wrong way. The problem is that I don't know how to give her the help she needs in a way that will actually help. She has a lot of baggage from her childhood to deal with, and I've been trying to be there to the best of my abilities, but eventually it gets very exhausting.

 

She's actually not European, she's Asian, and comes from a very conservative culture where women who cheat are basically disowned from their families, and that's why it's so baffling to me that she would actually go ahead and have an affair, knowing very well what the consequences would be.

 

I think in regards to therapy, I think she just doesn't like the idea of it, again coming from a conservative asian culture where things like therapy is seen as something that's useful only for crazy people. I believe that we can find therapists here that know English well enough to help her.

 

Thanks for your input, I appreciate it, I just have a lot on my plate to deal with right now, and I hope that we'll be able to come out of this with an improved marriage.

[Try]

Nonsense, total nonsense.

 

Porn might not be cheating to you but it sure can be betrayal to a partner.

 

Just as masturbation is not cheating, but can be considered betrayal if you are denying sexual intercourse with you partner but getting off every day behind their back.

 

How anyone can claim that "emotional availability " is weak excuse in a marriage obviously doesn't know what marriage is.

 

OP has clearly defined the borders of his responsibility and those of the affair. He said it perfectly: he recognises his role in the environment that may have contributed to his wife's decision to look elsewhere.

 

For once let's just call a spade, a spade.

Almost every time that someone cheats they point out things that the spouse did that made them unhappy. Since the spouse will be human, they will always be able to find such excuses because they are looking for them. Instead of addressing these issues with the spouse, cheaters will use these excuses to cheat. Most men will look at porn, and most men will be emotionally unavailable from time to time, this does not give their wive's an excuse to cheat anymore than wives not giving their spouse sex every time that they ask would give the husband an excuse to cheat.

 

The OP would just be chasing his tail if he tired to take responsibility for his wife's happiness. Move after move she has found a reason to be unhappy with where they have lived, and she saw her affair partner as her ticket to moving to America. Porn and emotionally availability had little to do with it. Had her affair partner not dumped her, and she was able to run off with him to America, she would would have been unhappy again and have someone new to blame for it. The issue is not with who she is with. The issue is with her.

[fellini]

You see I think you continue to put the horse before the cart.

 

Men treating their wives unfavourably do not give them excuses to go out and have an affair.

 

More typically a wife finds herself in a second relationship and then uses any excuse she can find in the marriage to explain it. This is because during the years of ups and downs of married life - we hear stories of 15, 20 years - suddenly she is in an affair. Is it more reasonable to say her husband was a cold fish - which he has been perhaps during years, or, the new manager at the office asked her out for coffee and started spilling his guts And touching her arm just so...

 

I believe what causes more spouses to enter into an affair is opportunity with someone they find attractive. Nothing more is necessary. Then suddenly finding oneself in this situation you never believed you could be in, you look elsewhere to explain it.

 

 

Almost every time that someone cheats they point out things that the spouse did that made them unhappy. Since the spouse will be human, they will always be able to find such excuses because they are looking for them. Instead of addressing these issues with the spouse, cheaters will use these excuses to cheat. Most men will look at porn, and most men will be emotionally unavailable from time to time, this does not give their wive's an excuse to cheat anymore than wives not giving their spouse sex every time that they ask would give the husband an excuse to cheat.

 

The OP would just be chasing his tail if he tired to take responsibility for his wife's happiness. Move after move she has found a reason to be unhappy with where they have lived, and she saw her affair partner as her ticket to moving to America. Porn and emotionally availability had little to do with it. Had her affair partner not dumped her, and she was able to run off with him to America, she would would have been unhappy again and have someone new to blame for it. The issue is not with who she is with. The issue is with her.

[Try]

You see I think you continue to put the horse before the cart.

The correct expression is "do not put the cart before the horse", because the horse cannot pull the cart from behind. Thus "put the horse before the cart" does not make sense since that is the correct order. I am not saying this to make fun of you but just so that you would know for the future use. I am guessing that English is not your first language and appreciate your effort.

 

More typically a wife finds herself in a second relationship and then uses any excuse she can find in the marriage to explain it.

We are in full agreement here.

[badkarma2013]

You see I think you continue to put the horse before the cart.

 

Men treating their wives unfavourably do not give them excuses to go out and have an affair.

 

More typically a wife finds herself in a second relationship and then uses any excuse she can find in the marriage to explain it. This is because during the years of ups and downs of married life - we hear stories of 15, 20 years - suddenly she is in an affair. Is it more reasonable to say her husband was a cold fish - which he has been perhaps during years, or, the new manager at the office asked her out for coffee and started spilling his guts And touching her arm just so...

 

I believe what causes more spouses to enter into an affair is opportunity with someone they find attractive. Nothing more is necessary. Then suddenly finding oneself in this situation you never believed you could be in, you look elsewhere to explain it.

 

*****************************************************************

 

Fellini...you have hit on some harsh but true Reasons for infidelity.."I believe what causes more spouses to enter into an affair is opportunity with someone they find attractive. Nothing more is necessary. Then suddenly finding oneself in this situation you never believed you could be in, you look elsewhere to explain it.

 

I wanted so bad ,as you know for logical reason for my WWs affair...just a GODDA*N logical reason for the destruction of two families...Something ...Anything to explain her such out of character behavior...I never got one...

 

I wanted it to be Complex and complicated ..maybe it was not...maybe it was just that simplistic .....

 

 

These are actual quotes from WWs to leading infidelity expert Katie Lersch..

 

Notice the SAME THEME ...It validates your point ....

 

"I had an affair with a man who takes yoga at the same time that I do. I never had any intention of leaving my husband and my family.

 

I made the huge mistake of cheating on my spouse last year. My husband found out about it from the other man. My husband immediately confronted me and I admitted to everything. I don't want to jeopardize my family

 

I regret cheating on my husband more than any mistake that I have ever made in my entire life. I love my husband. I don't want for him to leave me. I want him in my life. I was an idiot to jeopardize my marriage with this man. I had an affair that started at my job. And I know that the other man isn't a high quality person. He's not an upstanding guy the way that my husband is. The only thing that I had with the other man was great sex.

 

 

I heard from a wife who said: "I feel like such a cheap, low life for cheating on my husband. I am so embarrassed by this. My husband lost his job last year and I had to go back to work. I decided to work at a restaurant so that I could have very flexible hours. I ended up having an affair with my boss, who manages the restaurant. Honestly, the other man isn't anyone that I would have associated with before, much less have been attracted to. This is so out of character for me

 

 

Just that Simple......Badkarma