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Her Friend Now & Our Kids In The Future


FallenA

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I'll try to make this as short as possible, there's more to the story I guess but the main details are below. I have a couple of questions & I would love to hear others opinions on this.

 

I'm 37 & my wife is 36. We have 2 kids aged 7 & 6. We got together when she was 16 & I was 17. We had only ever been with each other. Fast forward 12 years to 2006 & we have moved to a new country & are now about to get married in 4 months time. Although we both agreed that we had been married since 1999 in terms of our relationship, indeed I actually called her my wife whenever I spoke about her and we had professed our love & commitment to each other numerous times, in conversations that to me at least were a lot more real than any marriage certificate. I saw in my childhood that being "married" did not make a relationship, I believe it's about the relationship between the 2 people rather than any external validation such as marriage.

 

On a work night out(4 months from wedding) she has sex with a workmate, then the following month she had a threesome with 2 different workmates (M&F) but she did not have sex with the guy. The F was her best friend & the guy was her on/off BF.

I was unaware of any of this until August 2014 & I don't think she has cheated on me since we were married.

 

Since August, I've been trying to move on but this has devastated me. I feel so tricked & like such a fool. We made such a big deal about only being with each other at the time we were married that it just rips me apart that that was a lie. My self-esteem, which wasn't exactly high to start with has been eliminated, I gave her all of me but it just wasn't enough, that really hurts.

 

A couple of days ago I found out she had been in contact with the friend before Christmas asking about the guy she had sex with. You see, she couldn't remember his full name & I wanted to know it. She asked this friend & got the name but did not tell me. I decided that I could no longer continue with R if she was going to be talking about things like this behind my back with 1 of the people she effectively cheated on me with.

I asked her to break all contact with this friend (we don't live in the city anymore so it isn't hard).

The thing is, this was her BFF & I now feel exceptionally guilty about asking her to do this. Did I do the right thing?

 

I also have a question about the kids. Obviously at their age now, they don't need to be told anything. We are both very careful to protect them from this, so they have not witnessed any of the fallout.

My question is what about when they are older? I plan to have an open & honest relationship with my kids about sex. Given when we got together & the relationship I hope to build with my kids I fully expect them to ask if we have only been with each other. But if they do what do I say? I can't lie to them about this can I?

 

Thanks in advance for any answers.

 

Fallen

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OP,

I don’t have much in the way of answers, except by asking more questions. How is it that you just learned of her infidelity eight years after the fact? How are you certain that she has remained faithful since? Why is she keeping the name of the AP from you? Not revealing the name, as you will read in countless threads on LS, is usually not a good sign from the WS. In order for your marriage to be healthy again, honestly and transparency should be part of the foundation.

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OP,

I don’t have much in the way of answers, except by asking more questions. How is it that you just learned of her infidelity eight years after the fact? How are you certain that she has remained faithful since? Why is she keeping the name of the AP from you? Not revealing the name, as you will read in countless threads on LS, is usually not a good sign from the WS. In order for your marriage to be healthy again, honestly and transparency should be part of the foundation.

How is it that you just learned of her infidelity eight years after the fact?

This is where it gets a bit complicated. 2 days before the birth of our first child, she had an STD test that was returned inconclusive. The pregnancy has not gone well & she was 2 weeks overdue.

She told me the guy raped her on the first night, I believed the main part of the story but thought there was more, like she was maybe kissing him & he went too far or something. Given the state she was in & the fact that my child was in danger I let it go. I think I did the right thing here.

Around a year later I decided that she should tell me the whole truth so we spoke again. She convinced me that her story was the truth & that she had done absolutely nothing to lead the guy on. I really did believe her, but sometimes, usually just before my daughters birthday, I got this feeling that something wasn't right. It usually passed in a day or so but in 2014 that feeling didn't go away.

I confronted her in August & she repeated her lie but it was different this time. I could tell she was lying. The next day I sent her an email begging for the truth & then everything started to come out.

I know I have made major mistakes & I hate myself for repressing that feeling that something was wrong. I'm trying learn from that mistake, but I'm still not sure why I did it.

 

How are you certain that she has remained faithful since?

I'm not certain of anything anymore.

 

Why is she keeping the name of the AP from you?

She said she tried to find him online & when she couldn't she didn't tell me so I wouldn't drive myself nuts trying to find him. Weak, I know.

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I hate to ask this, but are you certain your daughter is yours? The age of your oldest child and her affair are awfully close in terms of conception. If she knows the name of the AP she should give it to your. The fact that she rug swept this for so long and now seems to be TTing you is cause for concern.

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I hate to ask this, but are you certain your daughter is yours? The age of your oldest child and her affair are awfully close in terms of conception. If she knows the name of the AP she should give it to your. The fact that she rug swept this for so long and now seems to be TTing you is cause for concern.

Just to clarify, I have the name now. I put together a list of questions I had then other day & that was one of them. She gave me the answer but my issue was that she knew I wanted to know & should have told me as soon as she found out.

 

When I look at my daughter I am certain she is mine. If she isn't, I don't want to know until she is older. This is not her fault & I don't want my relationship with her to change no matter what. She does not deserve to be hurt over this, she is only 7.

Someday I will make sure but I do not want my view of her tainted while she is a child.

I had a horrible childhood & I want to do everything in my power to ensure my kids don't face what I faced as a kid.

If I found out she wasn't mine I could not guarantee that my feelings would not change towards her, I can't do that to a child that views me as their father, no matter what.

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The problem that trickle truth creates, is somehow un fixable. Because it means she's lied to you so many times about the same issue and gave different lies and only under pressure.

 

So, not only you don't know if she's cheated on you on many other occasions in the past, you also don't know the truth even about the two encounters that you think you have the truth there... and you don't even know maybe she is in a middle of an affair right now.

 

She only tells what she thinks will cause minimum drama. the question if it's a lie or not is not an issue according to her. her word means nothing in any matter.

 

Here you are, swimming in an endless ocean of ignorance, trying to find some certainty and clarity which you will never find.

 

So the problem is not her past cheating. It's the knowledge the you're going to spend the rest of your life, living with a woman you can't believe anything she says anymore.

 

If you choose to stay with that serial lier, focus on the present and the future. Invest your energy to be sure that she doesn't have any lover right now and keep an open eye from now on... At least on present and future you can have a reasonable percentage of certainty.

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I'm afraid you only know about the tip of the iceberg. I have yet to hear a story which ended well when someone attempted to be in a monogamous relationship with a serial cheater. She's a lost cause.

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So the problem is not her past cheating. It's the knowledge the you're going to spend the rest of your life, living with a woman you can't believe anything she says anymore.

Yes this is something I am struggling with. I know if I can't get to a place where I can actually believe what she says, then it will never work.

The other day when I blew up about her knowing the guys name she told me she did not "emote like other people".

I gave her the choice, fix herself & tell me the whole truth or F-off out of my life. She went to IC the next day.

I'm not sure if she ever even loved me, she says she did/does & will do anything to save our marriage, but as she is a proven liar, how can I believe her?

I want it to work & she is now really on her last chance with the IC. I have asked her to try to understand herself & her actions. I need answers & so far she has not given me enough of them.

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I'm afraid you only know about the tip of the iceberg. I have yet to hear a story which ended well when someone attempted to be in a monogamous relationship with a serial cheater. She's a lost cause.

I'll be the first to admit that I don't really know the full truth right now, but let's assume it was only these 2 incidents in the space of 1 month. Should I give up on a 20 year relationship because of her actions in the space of 1 month 8 years ago?

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Will try to summarize.

 

15 years ago, while engaged, and 4 months before the wedding - she banged one guy, and got into a threesome with a GF and a guy. Previously you had been each others only love for 5 years.

 

Later you figured this out - and presured her to know the threesome guys name. THEN she went on line to find it - contacting her old GF to ask who was that guy? Then you got upset she was in contact without telling you - but you wanted a name?

 

Is this right?

 

So questions for you

 

1) You believe to the best of your knowledge she has been faithful since the wedding.

 

2) Has she been in contact with any of the people involved - the one guy, the threesome GF? since the wedding? You should demand NC - even for the woman/GF who knew.

 

3) Has she been a loving wife ? Respectful, caring, good to you with sex?

 

4) Has she expressed fear, regret or remorse since this came out?

 

5) Have you done any spying or investigating? If not install software on computer, get in to all her accounts, old emails, cell phone, track/record her outside of home. You could ask for access - but suggest you go James Bond on her for a short while.

 

6) Can you go to Marriage Counseling? You look a few up, make some calls, and talk to the therapist on the phone before you choose one, mention your wife (then fiance) cheated on you and you need a strong straight talking therapist who believes in accountability for cheating. If the therapist says they are not in to blaming - find another one. If your a church going person - find one through your church.

Edited by dichotomy
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Will try to summarize.

 

15 years ago, while engaged, and 4 months before the wedding - she banged one guy, and got into a threesome with a GF and a guy. Previously you had been each others only love.

 

Later you figured this out - and presured her to know the threesome guys name. THEN she went on line to find it - contacting her old GF to ask who was that guy? Then you got upset she was in contact.

 

Is this right?

 

So questions for you

 

1) You believe to the best of your knowledge she has been faithful since the wedding.

 

2) Has she been in contact with any of the people involved - the one guy, the threesome GF? since the wedding? You should demand NC - even for the woman/GF who knew.

 

3) Has she been a loving wife ? Respectful, caring, good to you with sex?

 

4) Have you done any spying or investigating? If not install software on computer, get in to all her accounts, old emails, cell phone, track/record her outside of home. You could ask for access - but suggest you go James Bond on her for a short while.

 

5) Can you go to Marriage Counseling? You look a few up, make some calls, and talk to the therapist on the phone before you choose one, mention your wife (then fiance) cheated on you and you need a strong straight talking therapist who believes in accountability for cheating. If the therapist says they are not in to blaming - find another one.

Not quite right & it's my fault for not explaining properly.

It was 8 years ago & it was the guy she had sex with that I wanted the name of. I knew the names of the threesome people.

 

1. I do but obviously I can't be certain

 

2. She was in contact with the GF only (as far as I know) indeed she said a lot of bad things about the guy involved in the threesome. I asked her to break contact with the GF the other day & she did but I feel guilty about that.

 

3. Yes I can honestly say she has. Which is probably why this has hit me so hard. She wasn't that type of person if you understand what I mean.

 

4. Yes I went very James bond, which is why I'm as sure as anyone in this situation could be that there's nothing going on now.

 

5. Maybe, I don't know if it would hep to be honest. I don't really understand how it would but I am going to go for IC myself to help with my self-esteem issues now. If she can't fix herself in IC then there's no point trying to fix our relationship.

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Clarify again was this GF also her one time threesome bisexual lover? or was that another GF/coworker?

 

Asking for NC with GF is right and justified. If this GF has been in her life this whole time - having been ok with her cheating on you then she HAS to go. Unless you read emails where this GF was deeply remorseful and upset about what happened with your wife.

 

IC for yourself esteem is wise - I did this as well and it helped alot for me and the marriage. I can tell you that you expressing insecurity about your manhood or sexual abilities or attractiveness - to your wife now will NOT help and will hurt the situation. Angry is ok to express, hurt is ok to express to her - insecurity and poor self esteem will make it worse. I also know this first hand - you need to take the approach with her " I am an amazing man and lover - how could you do this ?". Please - it is hard to do - do NOT express poor self esteem to your wife.

 

MC is for her to be accountable for the cheating and lies and do the work necessary to heal the marriage. A good therapist will help her with the work necessary to rebuild your trust. Also for you both to open up and spill out the emotions (except self esteem issues - that you work on in IC).

Edited by dichotomy
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Just to clarify, I have the name now. I put together a list of questions I had then other day & that was one of them. She gave me the answer but my issue was that she knew I wanted to know & should have told me as soon as she found out.

 

When I look at my daughter I am certain she is mine. If she isn't, I don't want to know until she is older. This is not her fault & I don't want my relationship with her to change no matter what. She does not deserve to be hurt over this, she is only 7.

Someday I will make sure but I do not want my view of her tainted while she is a child.

I had a horrible childhood & I want to do everything in my power to ensure my kids don't face what I faced as a kid.

If I found out she wasn't mine I could not guarantee that my feelings would not change towards her, I can't do that to a child that views me as their father, no matter what.

 

I completely understand and think this is very admirable of you. My only point is that now that you know and if at some time in the future you decide you cannot continue with your WS, you would probably have a financial obligation to support your WS and your child instead of just your child.

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My opinion is a can of worms has been opened. It can be dangerous for either partner to resume contact with old flames when they are in their 40's and 50's because it is an avenue to relive their youth. At this age people start to confront their own mortality (their parent's generation begins to pass away, aches and pains don't go away as quickly, etc.) and reconnecting with old flames is one way to escape from this reality.

 

 

While what happened in the past is a concern, it is more important that you and your wife learn to keep windows open between the two of you, and keep walls up to protect the marriage from attractive alternatives to each other.

 

 

When either of you start trying to reconnect with old flames that you lost track of, this is a red flag in my opinion and you both need to deal with the root causes together, or risk being divided further.

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3. Yes I can honestly say she has. Which is probably why this has hit me so hard. She wasn't that type of person if you understand what I mean.

 

i think you started dating way too young. relationships where people only had one partner (each other) very rarely last because sooner or later - someone starts wondering about what it would be like to have sex with someone else. she probably feels like she's missing out on something + she's only now wondering (or exploring?) her sexuality.

 

is having an open relationship something you would consider?

 

i think there is a lot of stuff that you probably won't ever find out. i think this is the beginning of the end, but if you want to give her another chance - go ahead.

 

i'm really sorry but you should probably prepare for the worst.

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Clarify again was this GF also her one time threesome bisexual lover? or was that another GF/coworker?

 

Asking for NC with GF is right and justified. If this GF has been in her life this whole time - having been ok with her cheating on you then she HAS to go. Unless you read emails where this GF was deeply remorseful and upset about what happened with your wife.

 

IC for yourself esteem is wise - I did this as well and it helped alot for me and the marriage. I can tell you that you expressing insecurity about your manhood or sexual abilities or attractiveness - to your wife now will NOT help and will hurt the situation. Angry is ok to express, hurt is ok to express to her - insecurity and poor self esteem will make it worse. I also know this first hand - you need to take the approach with her " I am an amazing man and lover - how could you do this ?". Please - it is hard to do - do NOT express poor self esteem to your wife.

 

MC is for her to be accountable for the cheating and lies and do the work necessary to heal the marriage. A good therapist will help her with the work necessary to rebuild your trust. Also for you both to open up and spill out the emotions (except self esteem issues - that you work on in IC).

 

Yes the GF was the one in the threesome.

Too late for your self-esteem comments I'm afraid.

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I completely understand and think this is very admirable of you. My only point is that now that you know and if at some time in the future you decide you cannot continue with your WS, you would probably have a financial obligation to support your WS and your child instead of just your child.

Money is not important to me. Mine or not I would be happy to get that little girl to adulthood with every penny I have if need be.

I don't think my wife will looking for anything if we split. She has already said she would leave with nothing if I asked her to.

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My opinion is a can of worms has been opened. It can be dangerous for either partner to resume contact with old flames when they are in their 40's and 50's because it is an avenue to relive their youth. At this age people start to confront their own mortality (their parent's generation begins to pass away, aches and pains don't go away as quickly, etc.) and reconnecting with old flames is one way to escape from this reality.

 

 

While what happened in the past is a concern, it is more important that you and your wife learn to keep windows open between the two of you, and keep walls up to protect the marriage from attractive alternatives to each other.

 

 

When either of you start trying to reconnect with old flames that you lost track of, this is a red flag in my opinion and you both need to deal with the root causes together, or risk being divided further.

She only tried to find him after DDay. I do believe her intentions were to tell me if she found him. My issue with that is as someone else said earlier, her days of deciding what I shouldn't & shouldn't know are over, so I should have been informed as soon as she found the name. Not the next time I asked the question.

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i think you started dating way too young. relationships where people only had one partner (each other) very rarely last because sooner or later - someone starts wondering about what it would be like to have sex with someone else. she probably feels like she's missing out on something + she's only now wondering (or exploring?) her sexuality.

 

is having an open relationship something you would consider?

 

i think there is a lot of stuff that you probably won't ever find out. i think this is the beginning of the end, but if you want to give her another chance - go ahead.

 

i'm really sorry but you should probably prepare for the worst.

 

Yes we were way too young but I can't change that now.

Open relationship, sure I would consider that if I was in a relationship with someone I trusted 100%. Unfortunately I'm not in a relationship like that anymore.

If she had told me at the time I'm certain we could have worked something out.

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Its clear you are going to stay with a serial cheater and be miserable every time you find out about another of her flings. What are you looking for from us?

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Its clear you are going to stay with a serial cheater and be miserable every time you find out about another of her flings. What are you looking for from us?

I want to hear opinions on the 2 questions in the OP. I never asked what people thought about R did I?

 

Edit: just to add, it may be clear to you but it's certainly not clear to me at the moment.

 

Edit 2: Having looked at your history, I get it now. Don't think everyone is as weak as yourself, I am not you & if I find myself regretting my decision she will be gone. I won't stay with her to punish myself or her like you have.

Edited by FallenA
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Asking, expecting, or demanding that a cheater have zero contact with their affair partner - which her BFF is - is not at all unreasonable. WW should be happy to comply.

 

Children asking their parents about sex partners crosses natural and social boundaries. If for some crazy reason they have some need to know then telling them their mom is a cheater is just plain cruel to your wife.

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Asking, expecting, or demanding that a cheater have zero contact with their affair partner - which her BFF is - is not at all unreasonable. WW should be happy to comply.

 

Children asking their parents about sex partners crosses natural and social boundaries. If for some crazy reason they have some need to know then telling them their mom is a cheater is just plain cruel to your wife.

Normally I would agree, but when we tell our kids we have been together since we were teenagers don't you think it will come up? It may be cruel to her but is it not cruel to me to expect me to lie to my children to protect her.

Assuming we actually are still together then, which of course is far from certain at the moment.

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