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Why do I not care enough to do the heavy lifting?


Aspentree

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My H and I have been married for almost 30 years. We are in the 3rd year of a R. I had 2 affairs, the first 22 years ago and the second less than 2 years later. The first was an EA, the second was EA turning PA on D-Day. I confessed to my husband after both of them when they became too intense for me and each time when I felt I had crossed a proverbial line.

 

 

My H forgave the first affair, I made promises, stopped carpooling with the guy and with relatively little remorse and work moved past it. This should have sounded the alarm that there was something amiss with me. The second affair was a much bigger mess. It was with my supervisor at work and for many weeks I lived in denial that an EA was going on. Just thought I was getting along so well with this guy. Finally he heaped enough attention and admiration on me that I admitted that I had feelings for him. That immediately resulted in a day of PA, though short of intercourse. I confessed that evening and being fully immersed in the fog, told my H that I had to think about what I was going to do. I did not reveal many details of PA, just told him that something had happened.

 

 

Can anyone imagine what nightmare I put him through?

 

 

It gets worse though. While I told my husband after a few days that I intended to stay in our marriage and that I was terribly sorry, I did not offer to quit my job. I loved my job and insisted that things could go back to “normal” between me and AP. While there was no more physical interaction there was certainly plenty emotional energy happening between me and AP. All of this made true R nearly impossible, with H scared out of his mind and in emotional anguish and myself withholding my allegiance and any sincere effort to mend our relationship. I was basically blaming H for what was causing me heart ache in our relationship. Finally 3 months down the road I announced I would quit my job, but then AP decided to leave town and I stayed. Meanwhile H and I had started MC, but therapist was not very effective in addressing affair issues and so all the things that would have helped (apologies, openness, remorse) were not carried out and the only benefit I got was that I got rid of the resentments toward H that I had felt over some time.

 

 

Two years later we moved out of state and I got my wish to start a family. All things affair were swept under the rug and I was ready to look ahead with a sense of relief that I had finally stopped thinking about the AP.

 

 

Little did I know how much H was suffering still, how much his sense of self had been compromised and how he lived in fear that I would again take it up with someone else. I never asked how he was feeling about all this, never felt his hidden anguish convinced that it was better to put it away. Every now and then I did see how he was suffering, suffering from depression, gaining weight, etc. But never did I bother to understand that this was all the result of leaving the open wounds of the affair fester and never did I ask about the root cause of his hurting.

 

 

Our kids did provide ample distraction and many years followed with us immersed in the joys of raising them. We got along well, there was love between us, but also some uneasy distance.

 

 

3 years ago H realized that this was slowly eating him fromthe inside and that he had to do something about it. He confronted me and drawn out D-days followed. I told him about what I could remember, speculated what I could not remember, and embellished some things that didn’t even happen. I let him read a journal I had kept during first R 20 years ago with further details that suggested that I was mourning the loss of the AP. There were tears, me saying that I wasn’t sure I could love him. The emotional trauma felt like a landslide and H went through HELL for weeks at a time.

 

 

We started seeing MCs for a year and a half, but none were willing to tackle the affair issues head on “too long ago”, “need to move on”, trying to treat H’s symptoms. H always thought I went to therapy so therapist could heal him (while I watched) rather than I helping to heal us.

 

 

H read a lot and realized what it was he needed from me to survive all this. He needed apologies, often and specific; he needed to ask the same questions over and over to get the story straight, to finally KNOW what happened, how it happened and why. He wanted me to join him in in thinking about the affair without him having to ask daily.

 

 

I was willing, but always reluctant in effort; promising and then not following up. It’s what he calls the “heavy lifting”. I just wasn’t doing it, or most times I would do something but not often or for only a few days before falling back into inaction. Almost 3 years now and he feels he is at the end of the rope.I will do everything else before I tackle this heavy lifting, or sit down and seriously put my thoughts back to explore the when, why, and the how of the affairs. I can hold him in my arms, but that alone will not alleviate the loneliness he feels, the horrible nightmares, and upon awakening, the persistent doubt whether I care at all.

 

 

If you ask me whether I love him I will answer that I love him deeply. I also feel that he is entitled to ask me for all the things he needs. It really is a small price to pay considering the magnitude of pain I have put him through. So how is it that I do not make these things a huge priority? Is it the fact there has never been a serious consequence to my inaction?

 

 

I realize that I have done a lot wrong and I am really looking for some constructive advice. Looking forward to your thoughts and questions.

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Please don't take this as an insult but have you had any form of psychological or mental assessment?

There may be a personality disorder or worse still, a neural mis-fire in your brain which is causing an emotional malfunction.

 

Seriously, I'd talk to a Doctor about a referral, because something sounds totally haywire here.

 

Get past that hurdle.

Make sure there's no psychological or neural issue.

 

Then go from there.

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SycamoreCircle

I just want to say, regardless of the answers you seek, this is a mind-blowing post! It's rare that you see so much injury and such perspective from an elevated vantage point. It's comparable, pardon the analogy, to a mass killer confessing his crimes on his death bed. Thank you. Part of healing is being able to understand the pain of the victimizer as well as the victim.

 

Additionally, your husband is a rare breed. I'm not sure I totally agree with his choices. I think he could have lived a much different life. But his choices were his choices.

 

Anyway, I wish you both peace and continued healing and love.

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So its like with Phoebe from Friends... "I wish I could help but I don't want to."

You want to help, you CAN help, but you are just not doing it.

I don't buy your remorse. Like a sociopath, you might actually enjoy watching your husband suffer.

He is too trusting to have stayed with you after everything.

If he were here I'd tell him he should have left you 22 years ago when you had your first affair. Today he would maybe be happy with someone and not still dealing with you s**t.

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Sorry butyou weren't really into your marriage since affair #1. You don't feel like making an effort because ultimately there's nothing to be saved. A real shame your husband was too weak to leave you earlier, now he's wasted over 3 decades and got children into the mess.

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Very harsh from the other posters but that's their choice.

 

You have enough to write this down. You know what you need to do but you simply choose not to. But I contend you don't really have to because deep down you know your husband won't leave you. So even though you see the pain he's going through, you know he'll still be there tomorrow supporting YOU.

 

I suspect if he said he was divorcing you tomorrow you'd suddenly get that butt in gear.

 

It's ok to be humble in front of the man you purport to love so deeply, to be vulnerable. He choose to stick with you through all this nonsense, why not a little payback from your end?

 

Hasn't he earned it?

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You won't do any heavy lifting because you got away with it. There were no consequences. You got to keep your job, had two affairs , and your husband in essence played Mr. Nice Guy, which he now apparently regrets and it is eating at him.

I'm not sure if you are remorseful or not. It must be bothering you or why bother posting. The question is why is it bothering you. Is it because you really feel his pain, or because your marriage is troubled and you are feeling sorry for yourself for having to deal with it.

Your previous MC you stated was no good . You might want to try ICmif you can afford it.

He seems to be really troubled because he does not believe it won't happen again , and quite frankly my guess is because of your rug sweeping with no consequences you are probably at greater risk to do it again .

What are you doing to make him feel safe??? Are you doing a lot of girls night out, activities with other men around without hubby there, co Ed sports without him??

And what do you really want other than this to just go away which it will not. You cheated twice . You don't get to choose what you have to do to fix it. He does or you will not regain his trust .

The fact you posted shows some concern . Actions speak louder than words.

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You state you are in year 3 of a second R and yet it sounds like it’s still the same false R that you had the first time; you’re scratching the surface of the problems without wanting to get to the root cause. The serious consequence of your betrayal is your husband is at the end of his rope. Either you love him enough to do the work or you don’t and this should be your call to take action, seek IC, and give him what he asks. If you cannot or will not do what he asks of you, then you need to honestly tell him so and let him make his own decision to stay or leave.

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This is madness on the part of your husband and whilst I appreciate that you did have affairs 20 and 22 years ago, then no-one can be expected to live with this daily 20 years later...

He needs to let it go or you need to get a divorce ad get away from him for both your sakes.

Heavy lifting after 20 years, totally ridiculous.

For some BSs there is no relief, there are no magic words to ease their pain. The only magic words that WOULD help are "I did not have an affair" and as that is patently untrue they are permanently in a state of "Why?" and "Where?" and "How many times?" and "How did you feel?" and "Was he better than me?" and "Did you love him?".

You can heavy lift till doomsday, he will never be satisfied now, he has this etched on his soul.

By staying with you he is continuously picking at a sore that should have healed years ago, you can try and bandage him up daily, but the next day it is running blood again as he constantly rips off the bandage and picks the scab off again.

You need to have a life that is not mired in stuff from 20 years ago, even murderers get out on parole.

 

This may help your husband - Infidelity and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder | AFFAIRCARE

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You have to be an open book so your BH can verify NC with OM1 and OM2 and no new OM.

 

 

You need to tell you BH everything that happened. Do not lie and give the, I don't remember speech.

 

 

Start out with a written timeline. This will help your BH to get a starting point and help you remember more to tell.

 

 

Do not blame your BH for your choice to have an affair.

 

 

Regret your affair and make your BH aware of your regret.

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OP, I think this may be a case of feelings following actions. There are some practical things you can do to work on this, whether the emotion is there or not. Road mentioned a few. There is a lovely poster on here named Mrs. Adams (I hope it is okay to mention her name) who struggled with real remorse for her A for 30 years. I am hoping she'll come along.

 

There is also a book that a few people have mentioned from time to time called "Helping your spouse heal from your affair" or something like that. If you are going to read any book, that is the one I would recommend just based on what has been said about it, your actual case and timeline, and compared to other books I have read that really wouldn't apply to an A/A's that were so long ago.

 

But before all that, you need to take an honest look in the mirror and ask yourself why you are still with this man you hurt and whether you have it in you (the ability to act, not necessarily the feelings right now) to be the kind of wife he deserves.

 

Because you do not own a tardis, shoulda woulda coulda is a waste of time and typing. What can you do starting today?

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You aren't willing to do any heavy lifting because it doesn't sound like your husband had the balls to ever make you face any consequences. Even worse you both rugswept the affair, which almost never works in the long run. Because you both handled your marriage and your actions after the affairs the wrong way, you don't respect your husband and he doesn't respect himself and it's been eating at him over the years.

 

That's why you don't care. No matter how much he's hurting, you know he's not going to leave you. You have no incentive to help him, let alone respect him.

 

The best thing you could probably do is put him out of his misery and divorce him for his own sake. Since apparently it's taken him over 2 decades and he still hasn't figured out he should have left on his own back then. Good luck.

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JS84, well said. I'll add he has only himself to blame, anyone that stays with a two-time offender, willingly leaves everything unresolved and then starts a family with their WS knows what they're signing up for. No different than someone who spends two decades with an alcoholic - after the first year, you know what life will be like.

 

OP, I do feel feel for your H. He fell in love with the wrong person...

 

Mr. Lucky

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Trade shoes with your H for a long time.

 

So he had two A's.

 

If you really love him, would this hurt you that he had these A's.

 

Would you file for D, if he had affairs?

 

He is at the end of his rope.

 

If you do not want to continue torturing him, you need to think about what you want.

 

Do you want to D him now so you do not have to go thru this mess that you created? Or do you want to help him heal for two A's?

 

If you do not do the heavy lifting and do not want to, you could just file for D and tell him to go away.

 

Be careful. If he is at the end of his rope, he might decide that the pain is too great.

 

There can be some help, if you want it. I do not know about all the help, but there is a place you could contact called affair recovery. There are books to help you see the pain that a spouse goes thru in this sad situation.

 

Hope you and he find some peace.

 

But before you file, if you do love him and he is not your number 2 choice, try to help him with the pain.

 

He has been your H for many years. What do you want to do?

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Aspentree,

Your original question was:-

 

Why do I not care enough to do the heavy lifting?

 

The answer is that because you don't love or respect your husband enough to do so.

 

You said ;-

 

I confessed to my husband after both of them when they became too intense for me .

 

So you were more concerned about your own feelings than how your actions might impact on your husband ?

 

with relatively little remorse and work moved past it.

 

This says it all.

 

You have no remorse, no conception of what pain your husband is feeling, and no desire to work at this marriage.

 

So your idea of what it is to love someone, is a bit skewed.

 

This should have sounded the alarm that there was something amiss with me.

 

And there is your answer.:rolleyes:

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Wow!! I've read some pretty cold posts on this site since I joined, but this one tops them all. After reading it, it took several minutes for me to pick my jaw up off of the floor. Your lack of concern and respect for your husband stands out like burning flames. You absolutely shattered his world with that second affair, then you refused to leave that job. You gave him no comfort. The fact that you were unwilling to distance yourself from the AP speaks volumes for your character. You let him suffer for months while you blithely went off in the morning, leaving him to wonder what you and the AP were doing all day. Cold! He should have taken it to the company's HR department. He stuck by you, when he should have just kicked your a$$ out. And you've apparently never really appreciated him and what he had to endure. Cold! You should thank whatever gods there be for having someone stick with you after the terrible ordeal he had to put up with.

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Your husband is a grown man who can make his own decisions. If he doesn't have enough respect for himself to leave you, that's on him. It's sad, but he can't deny that he knows you have a serious problem.

 

Now let's talk about the real victims here, your children. How dare you bring them into this toxic environment of your marriage? Your husband has a choice, they do not. Do you not love them enough to give them a happy home life and set a good example for them? When they find out about all this (and don't worry, they will) how do you plan on explaining how you put their future in jeopardy by pursuing your own selfish wants and desires? Are you going to abandon them as well?

 

The problem you have is a lack of empathy and I think you realize this. You wonder why other people have empathy and respect for others and you do not. Sorry, but no one on this forum can make that diagnosis for you. I can tell you that it is one of the criteria for having a personality disorder. You also have another major red flag of one and that's the turning on and discrediting the therapist. This is one of the reasons why PD's are almost incurable. Truly personality disordered people don't want or believe they need help.

 

If you really want to stop abusing these children, you'll seek real, long term psychiatric help. You may have to go away for a while, but if you can find once single ounce of love in your heart for them, you might be able to do it.

 

Unfortunately, the chances of you getting better are pretty slim to none. Empathy isn't something that completely learned or environmental, it has a major genetic component as well. It may just be that this is who you are and there is no chance of recovery. However, if you print out your post and take it to real psychiatrist, he or she may be able to make a real diagnosis and at the very least, give you the skills you need to quit hurting your loved ones. Even though PD's aren't curable, most therapists do believe that can be managed.

 

Also, get the husband and kids in intensive therapy. They need skills to deal with your illness as well.

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Hope Shimmers

Why don't you care enough? I don't know, but probably for the same reason why you didn't care enough to avoid having 2 affairs in the first place.

 

I do have to say that I agree with the poster who said that after 3 decades, it's ridiculous that you should be living this every day and having it tear you apart every day. Problem is, the fact that you are dealing with this every day now is YOUR fault and not your H's. There's really no other option if you are to stay in the marriage, because your husband IS still living it every day and he can't just forget it or brush it under the rug anymore. So, perhaps you are annoyed that he did not just 'get over it'. Perhaps you think that he should have.

 

I agree that this was a marriage that should have ended decades ago (for your husband's sake) because you didn't do the work AT THE TIME to deserve to stay in your place as his wife. That is what is eating him alive. You didn't deserve any of the family, stability, etc that you received from the marriage all of these years, because you didn't value the marriage enough to 1) NOT have 2 affairs in the first place; and 2) be repentant and regret what you did, and address your H's understandable reaction/devastation to your A's. You did neither of those things. No wonder your H is suffering still.

 

I think you should give him a chance at happiness and let him go find someone who will value him.

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[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]ThanksAll, this is in response to many of your comments...

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]Ihave spent the past year looking over my H's shoulder and I know howimportant this online community has been for him. The reason I decided topost my story now is that my H has recently reached the point where he is atthe end of his rope and is thinking about leaving me. So 'Yes' there ismuch more at stake now for me.

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]Noone has ever committed an affair on me. I cannot imagine what it must feellike. I only know that I was hopelessly drowned in affair fog and no onesat me down and told me without mincing words that I had screwed up andthat if I had any expectations for repairing my relationship and anyhope of holding on to this wonderful man I would have to do a long list ofthings (you all know it). So I never took that long look in the mirror and alwayssaw "it" as the thing that "happened to me".

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]Asmy H has opened my eyes to all these things in the last 3 years I have not beenwithout compassion. I have held him through many a dark hour, insisted that heget help from IC, reassuring him that I love him. But he is trying to figureout why I love him now and not back then. So I come up short with the daily conversationabout some aspect of the affair. Whether it is an apology or a gesture orconversation that tells him that I know where he is and what he thinks about. Ineed to provide answers to questions without him necessarily even asking them.He’s already asked every question there is to be asked. It is my job to answerthem, not once, but many times, because he doesn’t worry just once, he worriesevery single day. This is the part I am so bad at.

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]Wedo spend much of our time away from work with each other, either on long walksor watching our kids' activities or doing things with them. We do have greatsex (way better than in our early years), but of course that is s.t.affected by memories of the affair.

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]Wehave read many of the books on affairs including the one that has beenmentioned here.

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]Somethingthat is making things more difficult for him is that 12 years ago I went backto working at the same place where the affairs happened, although in adifferent department. The APs were still there at the time, buteventually left the employer. But nonetheless just the nameof the place has so much negative baggage. But we also have positivememories there, because H and I collaborated on a project at my work place soit isn't all bad.

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]

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[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]Wehave the challenge of being quite different in how we react to things. Bynature I am someone who is more tolerant and able to move past things withoutgetting bruised too much. He gets upset more easily, has higher expectations,and worries ... and dwells on the past. And if an affair doesn'tget someone to dwell on the past what would???

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]Itis a true tragedy that I inflicted the affairs on him and not the other wayaround. I fully understand his terrible dilemma and wish nothing more than forhim to find happiness again whether it is with me or with someone else.If he decides to stay with me (or come back to me) I will be thehappiest person in the world. But that depends on whether I WILL do theheavy lifting.

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SORRY FOR NOT PRE-VIEWING THE POST! HERE IT IS AGAIN.

 

 

Thanks All, this is in response to many of your comments...

 

 

I have spent the past year looking over my H's shoulder and I know how important this online community has been for him. The reason I decided to post my story now is that my H has recently reached the point where he is at the end of his rope and is thinking about leaving me. So 'Yes' there ismuch more at stake now for me.

 

 

Noone has ever committed an affair on me. I cannot imagine what it must feel like. I only know that I was hopelessly drowned in affair fog and no one sat me down and told me without mincing words that I had screwed up and that if I had any expectations for repairing my relationship and any hope of holding on to this wonderful man I would have to do a long list of things (you all know it). So I never took that long look in the mirror and always saw "it" as the thing that "happened to me".

 

 

As my H has opened my eyes to all these things in the last 3 years I have not been without compassion. I have held him through many a dark hour, insisted that he get help from IC, reassuring him that I love him. But he is trying to figure out why I love him now and not back then. So I come up short with the daily conversation about some aspect of the affair. Whether it is an apology or a gesture or conversation that tells him that I know where he is and what he thinks about. I need to provide answers to questions without him necessarily even asking them.He’s already asked every question there is to be asked. It is my job to answer them, not once, but many times, because he doesn’t worry just once, he worries every single day. This is the part I am so bad at.

 

 

We do spend much of our time away from work with each other, either on long walks or watching our kids' activities or doing things with them. We do have great sex (way better than in our early years), but of course that is s.t. affected by memories of the affair.

We have read many of the books on affairs including the one that has been mentioned here.

 

 

Something that is making things more difficult for him is that 12 years ago I went back to working at the same place where the affairs happened, although in a different department. The APs were still there at the time, but eventually left the employer. But nonetheless just the name of the place has so much negative baggage. But we also have positive memories there, because H and I collaborated on a project at my work place so it isn't all bad.

 

 

We have the challenge of being quite different in how we react to things. By nature I am someone who is more tolerant and able to move past things without getting bruised too much. He gets upset more easily, has higher expectations,and worries ... and dwells on the past. And if an affair doesn't get someone to dwell on the past what would???

 

 

It is a true tragedy that I inflicted the affairs on him and not the other way around. I fully understand his terrible dilemma and wish nothing more than for him to find happiness again whether it is with me or with someone else. If he decides to stay with me (or come back to me) I will be the happiest person in the world. But that depends on whether I WILL do theheavy lifting.

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Hope Shimmers
We have the challenge of being quite different in how we react to things. By nature I am someone who is more tolerant and able to move past things without getting bruised too much. He gets upset more easily, has higher expectations,and worries ... and dwells on the past. And if an affair doesn't get someone to dwell on the past what would???

 

Be very careful that you don't make this about personality traits. You may be more able to "move past things", but you weren't the one who was cheated on. Twice. So you don't know how (or if) you would have moved past it.

 

His reaction is natural and has nothing to do with his personality traits.

 

It is a true tragedy that I inflicted the affairs on him and not the other way around. I fully understand his terrible dilemma and wish nothing more than for him to find happiness again whether it is with me or with someone else. If he decides to stay with me (or come back to me) I will be the happiest person in the world. But that depends on whether I WILL do theheavy lifting.

 

Do you really want him to find happiness, even if it is with someone else? Have you thought that through - what it would be like?

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Just remember, you can love a person, but that doesn't mean you have the capacity for empathy. Love is not the issue, your problems are. I see nothing in your post about what you are doing to fix yourself, only how you can clean up the mess well enough to not lose everything you have.

 

There's a reason you can't imagine what it's like to have someone cheat on you and it's not because you haven't been cheated on.

 

Until you fix yourself, you can't start to fix him. He has his own set of issues and truly won't get better until you let him go. Co-dependents are known to be attracted to narcissists and he doesn't have the capacity to leave. I think it will be much easier if you make the decision and leave. It may seem counter-intuitive, but at least it won't hurt you like it will hurt him. After all, that's what matters the most in your world, you.

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It doesn't take being cheated on to have empathy and compassion. Much like it doesn't take losing a child to have empathy and compassion. You cannot experience it first hand but you should be able to work on that and feel what he feels. Put yourself in his shoes sort of thing. Not just glibly say you are a different person and if cheated on would get over it.

 

You say you have been looking over your husband's shoulder. Who is he might I ask? It will add a whole lot more backstory and where he is ar.

 

And it is my honest opinion that you should be remorseful enough without any consequences. Being sorry because you are punished or lose something or suffer something because of your actions is just being selfish. While those things happen that isn't what makes a person truly remorseful.

 

What should make you fully remorseful and willing to do what it takes is from inside of you and have full honest regret for the affairs. And a whole lot more empathy for him. Even if they don't tick like you.

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It doesn't take being cheated on to have empathy and compassion. Much like it doesn't take losing a child to have empathy and compassion. You cannot experience it first hand but you should be able to work on that and feel what he feels. Put yourself in his shoes sort of thing. Not just glibly say you are a different person and if cheated on would get over it.

 

You say you have been looking over your husband's shoulder. Who is he might I ask? It will add a whole lot more backstory and where he is ar.

 

And it is my honest opinion that you should be remorseful enough without any consequences. Being sorry because you are punished or lose something or suffer something because of your actions is just being selfish. While those things happen that isn't what makes a person truly remorseful.

 

What should make you fully remorseful and willing to do what it takes is from inside of you and have full honest regret for the affairs. And a whole lot more empathy for him. Even if they don't tick like you.

 

The fact that you have to explain this to an adult is an indicator of a much bigger psychological problem. I know children who understand bigger concepts than this.

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The fact that you have to explain this to an adult is an indicator of a much bigger psychological problem. I know children who understand bigger concepts than this.

 

Maybe, but there are people who truly believe they have to actually experience certain things or be similar personality types. It just is how we are all different and I'm not sure it is always be a PD. And some people write different than others and seem far more removed from a situation than they actually are.

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