Alpha widows and beta men

[Striver]

The term "alpha widow" was used in another thread, and I looked it up. I admit that reading about it drew disturbing parallels to my own situation.

 

My STBXW is leaving me for another man. Someone she knew before we met. He is probably more assertive, more "alpha" than I am. I admit to being beta in the relationship.

 

What I read about this "alpha widow" business is that women (some of them) are genetically programmed to want just the elite guys, so if they have prior experience/attachments they are more likely to pine away for some of these guys for decades after even if they marry someone else. I was willing to commit to STBXW, OM wouldn't commit to anyone. She gets irritated about minor stuff in the marriage (everyone does that after a few years), OM finally decides he will commit, she drops me like a hot potato. We have three kids together, doesn't matter to her.

 

It just seems that with some women, the memories of their youth and the more alpha, bad boy types never go away. Partnering with them for years doesn't increase the intimacy, it just makes them more contemptuous of you.

 

I guess the question is what am I going to do with the rest of my life? I'm 49. I'm not willing to give up. As for my betaness, I am working on that. I do a lot more initiating and eye contact, especially with women. I like how it's working out. It's funny that if you just hold your head a little higher and project more assertiveness/confidence, people will respond.

 

Even with STBXW... my anger is only increasing, and that's probably a good thing. Driving around myself, thinking about her and OM, I had some enormous anger, felt some violent urges. I WILL NOT act on this, but it's probably a healthy thing for a guy like my to be feeling.

 

BUT... what do I do about my future now? Every woman I meet now is going to have some sort of past. I do not want the ones who are secretly pining away for someone else. Done with that. I will try to be more alpha, but she is going to want the different alpha guy she met way back when. I can't compete with that. Hard for most guys to be completely alpha with their women in a LTR anyway, the women work against that.

 

Are there enough women out there who aren't ruined already, pining away for someone else that isn't me? Or should I just play the divorcee field, that's as good as it gets?

 

I try to look to other people for examples, but I think my parents didn't have much else going on romantically before they got together. STBXW's parents either. For a lot of the successful relationships I know about, the less romantic history the better it seems like.

 

PS - I know that some men can't get over high school crush, pine away as well. There just seem to be more women that have this issue than men - will do anything decades later for some guy they developed feelings for.

[jbrent890]

I give it a year before she comes crawling back to you or at least regretting what she did. You will be surprised how many of these stories you can find and they all end the same. The wife always regrets the decision. Your wife is going to learn the hard way that the grass isn't always greener.

[Realist3]

I guess the question is what am I going to do with the rest of my life?

 

What you should do is stop worrying about definitions, and find a woman that loves you for you. You aren't going to change into something other than what you are after 49 years. Embrace that. I know that your wife leaving you has jaded your perception, but you have to let that go. There are plenty of women out there that have not been 'ruined' as you like to think.

 

While I am more on the alpha side because of my confidence, I think you will find a lot of women that absolutely adore a beta male. Don't try and be something your aren't because it won't work. Don't be afraid to fail.

[AlwaysGrowing]

The harshest reality of life to accept is that there are no guarantees in life.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong in tweaking oneself if one is doing it for themselves. Hopefully, most of us realize that self improvement is a life long class.

 

When I look over my own life, I see clear transitions, that at the time I didn't see/feel. I am no longer that person I was in high school, or mid twenties, thirties or my forties. I am currently, the best version of me thus far, while still a work in progress. I accept that I have challenges in my future, I accept that no one is immune to life's challenges.

 

Are there people that have arrived at 50 in the exact same mindset that they had at 20.... Absolutely. It won't take long to identify them. Personally, I find them amusing. As should you.

 

Trust me, there are lots of people arriving at 50 that have come out of their challenges, better versions of themselves as well.

[Striver]

The harshest reality of life to accept is that there are no guarantees in life.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong in tweaking oneself if one is doing it for themselves. Hopefully, most of us realize that self improvement is a life long class.

 

When I look over my own life, I see clear transitions, that at the time I didn't see/feel. I am no longer that person I was in high school, or mid twenties, thirties or my forties. I am currently, the best version of me thus far, while still a work in progress. I accept that I have challenges in my future, I accept that no one is immune to life's challenges.

 

Are there people that have arrived at 50 in the exact same mindset that they had at 20.... Absolutely. It won't take long to identify them. Personally, I find them amusing. As should you.

 

Trust me, there are lots of people arriving at 50 that have come out of their challenges, better versions of themselves as well.

 

Maybe all of the women who are pining after these old lovers are in long term relationships/marriages and built up resentments because H is not "the one." I guess I won't be dating these women if they are still in the marriages and resenting their partners. Maybe the ones I will be dating will be more mature, have learned from life. I can only hope.

[harrybrown]

You are feeling deep pain right now.

 

So sorry. However, if she will treat you like this, she does not love you.

 

Be glad that she is out of your life. do the 180 and work on yourself. Keep her out of your life.

 

Who gets the kids and how old are they?

[Woggle]

Live a happy life without her and she will probably come crawling back. Her type can't stand a discarded man doesn't become a sad groveling mess. Let her see you out enjoying yourself and it will burn her soul.

[lostnadrift]

Maybe all of the women who are pining after these old lovers are in long term relationships/marriages and built up resentments because H is not "the one." I guess I won't be dating these women if they are still in the marriages and resenting their partners. Maybe the ones I will be dating will be more mature, have learned from life. I can only hope.

 

Don't date too fast. Learn to be happy independently. It's very normal to want to plug that hole in your life with another woman but that isn't a good idea. You will come across as desperate and that will put women off.

[Striver]

Don't date too fast. Learn to be happy independently. It's very normal to want to plug that hole in your life with another woman but that isn't a good idea. You will come across as desperate and that will put women off.

 

I am fairly independent anyway, I'm a little more worried about getting to isolated. I do not need to rush down that path.

 

I turn 50 in 6 months, so I might want to get my feet wet a little bit, though. It will also have been a year since separation by then. It's a journey, not a race, but I will probably have taken a few steps by then anyway.

[Woggle]

If you have any vacation time coming take it and do something.

[lostnadrift]

I am fairly independent anyway, I'm a little more worried about getting to isolated. I do not need to rush down that path.

 

I turn 50 in 6 months, so I might want to get my feet wet a little bit, though. It will also have been a year since separation by then. It's a journey, not a race, but I will probably have taken a few steps by then anyway.

 

Yes.. I understand the fear of isolation.. I wish you all the best in your journey to recovery. There can be other meaningful relationships besides romantic ones although that is oft seen as the most intimate and ideal..

[revelations]

Striver the truth is that the chances are very high that whoever the woman is she will be pining over a past alpha love. Their are some women that may have had that alpha lover in the past, however was hurt by him and the illusion broken. I would suggest instead of worrying about dating and if that woman actually wants you or is just settling for you that you start to just enjoy your life. You stated on here that your pretty independent anyway so this is a good start. Take up some hobbies and enjoy them, spend time with your friends. Build a life for yourself that you can enjoy and be proud of. If you do end up going out on a date make sure it is because it is something you want to do. If you have been successful with building a life for yourself you will no longer look to that woman to complete you. Instead you will know that you are already complete without her. You will be able to ask a woman what she brings to the table that will enhance your life (not just sex). You yourself will be an alpha male not because of looks or cash. You will be an alpha male because your life is complete and enjoyable with or without a woman.

 

So learn how to live for yourself and enjoy life and forget worrying about dating or women. Trust me when I say things are different when she figures out that your time is valuable and you may want to use it doing something else. If you want suggestions for some hobbies feel free to PM me if you like. The main thing is to learn how to feel complete with yourself and don't look at women as completing you. If you go out on a date you should be saying "My life is great right now, how will you enhance it?". So I would suggest not even dating until you are feeling complete and enjoying your life without a woman. Once you can do that you may even question the "want" for a woman at all. After all the better your life is the higher the chance that a woman will only screw that up for you.

[bigman1]

Striver,

 

I have very strong opinions about that Alpha male crap. Let's reverse the roles, do homemaker women attract men? How about slutty sexual women? You see the great debate, Ginger vs. Mary Anne, Alpha vs Beta, it is all crap. Its easy to pigeon hole and glorify what you are not and believe that is what folks want.

 

I can't stand passive women. I know guys who adore them. These are so called "Alpha" males. On the other hand, I'm a trial lawyer and handle high stakes cases, so one might call me an Alpha, but I'm generally joking around, trying to avoid conflict, and looking for a solution to disputes. Still, I like women who are driven and have an opinion. I don't think that I emote as an Alpha, but then again, I'm pretty big, so maybe "Alpha" is presumed, who knows?

 

Anyhow, if a woman is attracted to the so called "alpha" it is probably temporary. I pick Mary Ann in the Ginger v. Mary Ann debate, but I would definitely like a little Ginger sometimes.

 

You have to be you. The bottom line is that if a woman or a man for that matter cheats, its NOT because the other person was Alpha or slutty or anything that was so irresistable, an coincidentally the opposite of your personality. It's because the cheater is by definition untrustworthy, incapable of honoring commitment, and an emotional liar.

 

I have had women show me their breasts, grab my manhood, place my hand on their breasts, and outright tell me that they wanted to have sex. You know what, I passed. I said, I'm married. Alpha, Beta, Gamma, it does not matter, a real woman sticks with her spouse just as a real man does.

[central]

There are plenty of good women who will appreciate you. I got back into dating at 45, and there were many, many good prospects. I'm not alpha, but I'm not beta either - I think I'm what's called a sigma - but that does not matter if you find the right woman. Just take your time before making any permanent commitments, and you'll surely observe their true nature and see if it's compatible.

[Man Mountain Makino]

My STBXW is leaving me for another man. Someone she knew before we met. He is probably more assertive, more "alpha" than I am. I admit to being beta in the relationship.

 

...

 

It just seems that with some women, the memories of their youth and the more alpha, bad boy types never go away. Partnering with them for years doesn't increase the intimacy, it just makes them more contemptuous of you.

I'd wager she will discover that the guy isn't all she imagined he was - and that's the key, she's attracted to a figment of her imagination.

 

Also don't believe women want the so-called 'bad boy.' Bad boys tend to be unambiguously masculine, and that's what's attracting them. Not so much the 'badness.'

[Selfish]

I had never heard all the going on about alpha or beta until I came to this site. I do know some people seem to have a pattern of choosing people who treat them like crap. And some people like outgoing and some like more quiet. And I have never heard any of my female friends save one talk in any great extent about a past lover. And that one only mentioned how this one ex used to be the most amazing kisser ever and gorgeous, but the last time she saw him he had lost all his looks.

[Striver]

I'd wager she will discover that the guy isn't all she imagined he was - and that's the key, she's attracted to a figment of her imagination.

 

Also don't believe women want the so-called 'bad boy.' Bad boys tend to be unambiguously masculine, and that's what's attracting them. Not so much the 'badness.'

 

Something additional in my case beyond this alpha/beta issue. My wife herself is very dominant. She has been very assertive in carrying all this out, specifically separated to date OM. She is assertive, articulate, but would not be comfortable being pursued, being that sort of object of desire. She does not feel herself attractive in that way.

 

OM does have some alpha characteristics that I do not, but he's also in his late 40s and never married. STBXW dominates all of her relationships, but the one way to have power over her is to be avoidant in the relationship, to not be completely dependable in affections towards her. I may have exhibited some of this early in the relationship, as I was very inexperienced and not entirely sure of her at the time either. Over time these issues have gone away for me, and it's hard for me to appear avoidant when I'm participating in the child care and in the house every day. So she did complain about me not standing up to her enough, but that's one of a litany of complaints, so I could be giving it too much weight.

 

I think STBXW is likely the one in control of the relationship with OM, has fallen in love with his story of missed opportunity and being alone, whatever. I can't compete with that. She won't deal with relationship issues, so that thing will go one of two ways, assuming other issues don't get in the way for them. Either he will revert to avoidance, which is maybe what she wants anyway, or he will decide to be Mr. Commitment, and her relationship issues will pop up again since she's done no work on them.

[gettingstronger]

I never heard of this until this post-but yes, our OW fits this to a T- my husband is that bad boy in high school that you wanted but didn't want-she married a guy she thought had family money until the recession hit and they got wiped out-although she is average, she has illusions of greatness for herself-she claimed he flew her all over the country to meet him, they stayed in beautiful suites, ate out at wonderful dinners, etc... the truth is she flew on a buddy pass she bought herself, they stayed at the Hilton and ate on an expense account or she paid her share-(I control the money and his expenses so there is no doubt there)- UGH!

Small town girl that wanted to be more I guess- who knows-

[silicone]

A lot of people are saying that the theory is crap, but it seems to somewhat prove itself, up to a certain point.

 

It is more prevalent in the non human species, however.

 

She might come back to you ... because you are "safe", a provider. Stand your ground. Maintain a principle is what is strength.

[badkarma2013]

I had never heard all the going on about alpha or beta until I came to this site. I do know some people seem to have a pattern of choosing people who treat them like crap. And some people like outgoing and some like more quiet. And I have never heard any of my female friends save one talk in any great extent about a past lover. And that one only mentioned how this one ex used to be the most amazing kisser ever and gorgeous, but the last time she saw him he had lost all his looks.

 

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Still...survey and post after post...say MOST NOT ALL..But Most WWS start an A with OM who is more physically fit or stronger looking that her BH...

 

Bad Boy or not it happens more that we think...

[jm2013]

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Still...survey and post after post...say MOST NOT ALL..But Most WWS start an A with OM who is more physically fit or stronger looking that her BH...

 

Bad Boy or not it happens more that we think...

 

See, this is what I don't get. The guy my wife was with isn't more fit than me. I told my wife I couldn't believe she'd toss her marriage down the pipes for him. She told me he was very "feminized" (which I do believe). I'm way more alpha than this guy will ever be in his life. My story shows though that women will exchange sex for emotional support. One thing he did try and do is get a relationship with my daughter. When I saw this happening I was like what the hell. It now makes sense though. He was trying to prove "how good" he was with kids. I watched a thing on tv about this in the animal kingdom too. While the alphas took most of the tail there were a few non alphas who hung around who were great with kids which gave them an opportunity to bang too even know they weren't alpha.

Edited December 17, 2014 by jm2013

[Selfish]

See, this is what I don't get. The guy my wife was with isn't more fit than me. I told my wife I couldn't believe she'd toss her marriage down the pipes for him. She told me he was very "feminized" (which I do believe). I'm way more alpha than this guy will ever be in his life. My story shows though that women will exchange sex for emotional support. One thing he did try and do is get a relationship with my daughter. When I saw this happening I was like what the hell. It now makes sense though. He was trying to prove "how good" he was with kids. I watched a thing on tv about this in the animal kingdom too. While the alphas took most of the tail there were a few non alphas who hung around who were great with kids which gave them an opportunity to bang too even know they weren't alpha.

You are forgetting one thing.

 

Your wife's AP was not you. And that is a big thing that no comparison can matter or change in the case of a non exit affair. so alpha, beta, past lover, the AP will always fill the bill of not being the spouse.

[Striver]

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Still...survey and post after post...say MOST NOT ALL..But Most WWS start an A with OM who is more physically fit or stronger looking that her BH...

 

Bad Boy or not it happens more that we think...

 

In my case he has probably a more masculine job (cop versus programmer) and probably more assertive. Haven't seen him in years, but when I did see him years ago he wasn't particularly buff or strong looking. Probably makes less money than me.

 

In the marriage I am older than STBXW, but I work out and look young for my age. STBXW is always overweight and out of shape.

[bigman1]

The urge to believe in one's inferiority is strong in the betrayed spouse. Here is some truth for you, YOU WERE PERFECTLY FINE AND STILL ARE. Alpha/beta bull****.

 

Confession: In college I messed around with this woman who was dating a soon to be pro basketball player. He was about 6 ft 7 or 6 ft 9. Built like a greek god. six pack, muscles on muscles. Could have played tight end in the NFL. Also, hung like a freaking mule. She told me. Me: Not built like a greek god. Never had a 6 pack. I'm packing, but no where near this dude. Guess who she was creeping with...ME. In your world, he was a double alpha. Still, she was at my beck and call. Hell, she used to call me on the regular. This is back before cell phones, etc. Yeah, I was a scumbag for cheating with her, but I was also young, dumb and full of ...

 

My point, you can think the other guy was more alpha or more in shape or whatever, but it does not matter, did not matter, and will not matter. There were other "alphas" before you. She married you. Whatever her motivations for cheating, it had nothing to do with you.

 

Hell, dudes cheat on their wives all the time. The other woman is NOT always hotter, sexier, prettier, better, etc. Usually, she is available and willing. Sometimes the other person is in better shape, better looking, richer, etc. The fact is, they were available and willing. Also, consider this, your wife is not the hottie that you think she is, objectively speaking. I hear dudes always talking about how "hot" their cheating wife is. Sorry, only to the man who married her.

 

In your case, your wife was overweight, according to you. Why would Mr. Adonis or Alpha pick her?? he should have had hotties throwing themselves at him left and right. His dick should have had a permanent female attendant. it did not because he was not all that. Two messed up people hooked up. The only "A" word that defines an OM or OW is A-hole.

[oldshirt]

Many times it's not so much about te OM being more "alpha" per se, but rather he has some trait or characteristic that the H is lacking.

 

If the H is bald and the OM has a full head of wavy hair, she may go for that even though the OM is on the whole not as good looking as the H. If the H is homely and short and fat but makes a ton of money, she may go for the tall,buff handsome OM even though he is unemployed.

 

If the H is aggressive and domineering she may go for the OM because he is kind and supportive.

 

That means that the OM can be significantly more 'beta' in some ways.

 

Often times the OM/OW is a less desirable partner as a whole than the spouse but if the spouse is lacking in one key area that the OM/OW fulfills, then the WS will attempt to stay with spouse and get the other need met on the downlow.