Regarding trust

[katielee]

How do the rest of you feel about trust after betrayal? I wrote about this earlier today...

 

I'm not so sure that trust is a choice. If you have to take a leap of faith to trust someone is that really trust? Or is it hope? Because to me trusting someone is knowing they have my back.

What I have with my husband - I know he wants to be a good person but nothing would surprise me. I could make a decision to always assume the best (most times I do) but that again is something different than trust, IMO. When he drives to work every day (both OW work in the same town he does) - well, I'm just tired of thinking about what he may or may not do. It's up to him to stay on the straight and narrow - again, not trust.

 

I think the loss of trust from betrayal is gravely underestimated. I think many BS just decide not to think about it. . If the WS does it again then they are gone. Now, that is trusting themselves to know what to do if that situation arises, but it's not really trusting the WS. It's hoping the WS has taken care of their crap so they don't act out again. But really knowing down in your gut that your spouse has your back - I see some of that after a betrayal and in recovery, but not a lot.

[HermioneG]

Actions have built my trust. Consistent actions over years and years past the betrayal.

 

I absolutely believe he has my back at this point in time, and there have been several instances where I have absolutely needed him to be there, and it was rough, and he absolutely stepped up.

 

This was one of my biggest concerns in reconciliation. I do not trust anyone 100%, save for myself, but I do trust several people 99.5%, and my spouse is absolutely on that list.

[snappytomcat]

yes like hermoine said,my husbands actions has showed me I can trust again,never trust him like I did before,but I do just not blindly,he knows he f**cked up bad,and he feels really horrible about it,and he also knows he gets one chance that's it,and we have open communication now,its way better than it ever was.

a few months ago,he went out for the first time with the guys,he did invite me to go,he wanted me to go,but I was exhausted,and I told him to go without me,i thought I would feel anxious,but I didn't he kept in contact,and was home early,i will not live my life being paranoid,cause to me that's no way to live,but we do everything together now,not because im have him on a leash,but because we really enjoy each others company,and have fun together,our kids are out of the home now its just us,and its been a long journey and difficult at times,many times I even thought is it worth it,is he worth it,but we are worth it

[the_artist_1970]

Trust after a betrayal of infidelity is so hard to achieve. Before my DH had an A, I trusted him blindly. As a matter of fact I held him so high on a pedestal that I almost made him my little god. He was a man who I thought had outstanding character. On DDay and for years after, I had absolutely no trust in him, nor did I have any respect for him. It took years for my husband to convince me that he was worthy of having me as a wife.

 

I finally realized that my husband wasn't this super human man I had made him out to be. He was a man, a human being capable of making some really dumb choices. But so am I. Six plus years after DDay I don't trust him blindly like I did before. I trust a higher power (my God) to protect me from the kind of pain that I suffered on DDay. My Big God is first in my life (where he should have always been) and my husband is someone who is on loan to help me, love me and take good care of me. I can never be hurt as badly as I was hurt on DDay. I will never put my all into my husband again. I will love him unconditionally, be the best wife, lover and friend to him. I know without a doubt that if he betrays me again I will live. Of course I will live without him because I will not tolerate a second betrayal.

 

After DDay, I empowered myself by putting away a nice little nest egg to make sure that I can walk away and maintain a nice lifestyle. I have always had a great career and I make a lot of money which is a blessing. I also rebuilt my spiritual life and my physical life. I take care of myself first. I don't "check up" on my husband anymore. It is his responsibility to make sure that I always feel "safe" in our marriage. And he does a very good job at it now.

 

What I know is that you can't live your life worrying about whether you can trust your spouse. All you can do is love them unconditionally and pray for them consistently. For us praying together has worked miracles in our marriage and in us.

[gettingstronger]

Still working on trusting everyone and everything. It's a bummer but part of the fall out I guess.

[DKT3]

Trust after a betrayal of infidelity is so hard to achieve. Before my DH had an A, I trusted him blindly. As a matter of fact I held him so high on a pedestal that I almost made him my little god. He was a man who I thought had outstanding character. On DDay and for years after, I had absolutely no trust in him, nor did I have any respect for him. It took years for my husband to convince me that he was worthy of having me as a wife.

 

I finally realized that my husband wasn't this super human man I had made him out to be. He was a man, a human being capable of making some really dumb choices. But so am I. Six plus years after DDay I don't trust him blindly like I did before. I trust a higher power (my God) to protect me from the kind of pain that I suffered on DDay. My Big God is first in my life (where he should have always been) and my husband is someone who is on loan to help me, love me and take good care of me. I can never be hurt as badly as I was hurt on DDay. I will never put my all into my husband again. I will love him unconditionally, be the best wife, lover and friend to him. I know without a doubt that if he betrays me again I will live. Of course I will live without him because I will not tolerate a second betrayal.

 

After DDay, I empowered myself by putting away a nice little nest egg to make sure that I can walk away and maintain a nice lifestyle. I have always had a great career and I make a lot of money which is a blessing. I also rebuilt my spiritual life and my physical life. I take care of myself first. I don't "check up" on my husband anymore. It is his responsibility to make sure that I always feel "safe" in our marriage. And he does a very good job at it now.

 

What I know is that you can't live your life worrying about whether you can trust your spouse. All you can do is love them unconditionally and pray for them consistently. For us praying together has worked miracles in our marriage and in us.

 

Wow, do I get this. I know it wasn't fair, but I truly saw her as perfect. My expectations of her were very high and totally unreal. I think that was in large part why I didn't handle it well. I never I a million years thought she could do anything like that. Its also that same reason that I felt so foolish. The signs were there.

 

Trusting after is hard. Oddly I really trust that she would never cheat again, yet I still don't trust her at the level that I think I should, if that makes any sense. I guess I don't trust that she wouldn't knowingly do something that would hurt him.

 

Well the good thing is I trust her more then yesterday, hoping to trust even more tomorrow. She really helps, she does her part. As I've said many times, her working to make me feel safe can be annoying at times.

[katielee]

I hate to keep harping on this but because I did give him a 2nd chance and he blew it, it's like impossible.

Or, should I just think of it as a time period where he lost his mind? That doesn't seem to honor the boundary i had set after the first one though.

[nightmare01]

BLIND TRUST is just stupid. I had that for my WW, and I was a complete fool to trust her so much. THAT won't be happening again.

 

I am 13 years past Dday, and I now trust my WW to a degree.. If she tells me she is going out with this or that person to this or that place, AND what she tells me seems reasonable then I trust her. But if her story sounds off some way or the other, then I'm quick to suspect it.

 

For me - after Dday I realize that the only person on this earth that I can fully trust is myself. I trust myself to protect myself, and so having suspicions of a fishy story out of WW is self protection. I trust myself in that if WW cheats again I know I will leave her in a heart beat and I will be fine.

 

Like others here, the more acts WW does that build trust, the more trust I have in her. My trust in her will NEVER be what it once was though, because I'm smarter now.

[2sunny]

What do I think of trust?

 

I think each and every person I deal with has a chance to EARN my trust.

 

I don't give it freely (anymore)

Their actions SHOW me whether or not they are trustworthy (worthy of MY trust)

 

If they don't earn it - it because they don't do what they say

Or their actions show they are worthy

Or their words have been unkind and hurtful

Or they just don't give me consistency

 

 

It isn't hard to do - but the liars sure do make it look difficult.

When someone is making it look difficult - I cut them loose! No need to waste my time and energy on false evidence trying to appear real.

[merrmeade]

How do the rest of you feel about trust after betrayal? I wrote about this earlier today...

 

I'm not so sure that trust is a choice. If you have to take a leap of faith to trust someone is that really trust? Or is it hope? Because to me trusting someone is knowing they have my back.

 

What I have with my husband - I know he wants to be a good person but nothing would surprise me.

 

I think the loss of trust from betrayal is gravely underestimated. I think many BS just decide not to think about it. If the WS does it again then they are gone. Now, that is trusting themselves to know what to do if that situation arises, but it's not really trusting the WS. It's hoping the WS has taken care of their crap so they don't act out again.

 

But really knowing down in your gut that your spouse has your back - I see some of that after a betrayal and in recovery, but not a lot.

I agree that "the loss of trust from betrayal is gravely underestimated" and not a choice. My WH asks me to forgive and trust him, says he wants to earn my trust and feels he doesn't have it. I have no idea, which means, I guess, that I can't control it. It's either there or it isn't and may take a long, long time. At least he sees this much.

 

I agree that a WS wants to be and be seen as a good person, trustworthy and decent,which is not the same as being that way in everything and with everyone.

 

I also agree that knowing down in your gut that your spouse has your back is important. I can give him some credit, but the nature and timing of his proactive behavior is a bit chilling. That is: When I was going to my brother's funeral, WH, who did not go because of his affair with my SIL, tried to coach me on handling her since I am too trusting and she is a manipulative bitch. Nice of him, and guess he had my back.

Edited October 15, 2014 by merrmeade

[2sunny]

When someone asks me to trust them it makes me not trust.

 

Every single action a person does or doesn't do indicates whether or not I can trust.

 

Merr I would have a difficult time with your husband.

 

But that's just me.

[merrmeade]

When someone asks me to trust them it makes me not trust.

 

Every single action a person does or doesn't do indicates whether or not I can trust.

 

Merr I would have a difficult time with your husband.

 

But that's just me.

 

It's not just you.

[Clay]

You will never be able to trust him again. It is a fact of life. It does not mean that you can't try and you both can't work on your relationship but its just the way it works. I almost think its like a phobia. There are so many factors that you yourself will have to over come and the person that cheated on you will never understand. Your better off leaving him and starting fresh with someone else.

 

There are people out there that are faithful and believe in marriage. Life is much better with cheater out of your life. I tried to over come this with my xW. She just kept cheating and she was not the first woman to cheat on me. I thought it had to with something with me at first but later I realized what I problem was. I allowed them to get away not throwing them out. I learned the hard way.

 

I am sorry you are going through this. I wished people would not cheat but sadly I doubt that will ever change.

 

Clay

[2sunny]

I hate to keep harping on this but because I did give him a 2nd chance and he blew it, it's like impossible.

Or, should I just think of it as a time period where he lost his mind? That doesn't seem to honor the boundary i had set after the first one though.

 

That "boundary" is for him to set for himself.

 

You should have a healthy boundary for yourself too.

 

The fact that he already had a second chance but also blew through that would make me end it. Oops, for me I did end it! I ended a marriage after 23 years when he cheated that second time.

 

You can't MAKE another person do things. They must learn to either do what's right or prove that they won't. When there's evidence twice that they have no honor and respect - it's time to leave.

 

Forcing another person to be decent is exhausting. It's not worth the resistance.

[Hardgrind]

In our case my WW was working in a city half way across the country. She was leasing an apartment which put her very close to the OM. After DD I went out on a limb, and told her that I was going to trust her even though she had not earned it, because that was the only possible path forward for R. For a variety of reasons, it was possible but not realistic for her to quit her job and spend 100 % of her time in the same city as me.

 

This was very difficult for me, because I was putting my trust in someone who had just ripped my heart out. Initially things seemed to be going well. She seemed to be very open in our communication and told me things she would rather have not when I asked.

 

Over the next couple months though she could not maintain the openness. Being accountable to me wore on her. I eventually caught her in a couple lies about where she was and where she had been. That was the turning point for me, even though I did not have proof that the PA was continuing. I could no longer trust her because she lied about some things, so I could no longer trust that she was not lying about many other things also.

 

In hindsight I was foolishly optimistic in trusting her. I could have saved many months of worry and stress by demanding she end all contact with OM, demanding that she be open with all communications and demanding that she move back home and change jobs if necessary. If I had done that, she would have refused then and we would already have been divorced.

 

So to answer the OP's question, "leap of faith" was exactly the phrase I used at the time, and in hindsight it was more hope than trust. And ultimately misplaced hope, in our case.

[flowergirl14]

I am 13 months post dday and I was actually starting to trust again. Then I saw several interesting things and my suspicions arose. One he works nights and I saw that he had left his work for about an hour at 4 a.m. Two. I saw that he had been trying to look up the OW facebook account. Three he was looking at some womens harley davidson apparel on ebay. (Never have him I been interested in Harleys). Fourth after confronting him on my fears now hes being too nice. Dont know how to know for sure?? Any ideas

So as for trust..its overrated. One little blip and your back to square one. I used to enjoy reading a good book. Now im on forums like this reading about infidelity. All these trust issues seem like such a waist of my time. There are so many better uses of my time and your time. Some days I am so sick of all the shenanigans. Not trusting..checking up on them..

[billy baru]

For me, it took only once. Once the betrayal happened and she got caught, I knew that there was no way I could ever look at my STBXW and not think "cheater".

 

Hard to say what future relationships will look like.. I know that it'll take a very special woman for me to invest trust in....

[katielee]

my IC said to let go and forgive. Because it's punishing both of us if I don't do this. ok, how?

And by the way, he's being great. I wish I could enjoy all the wonderful things in my life without worrying that the other shoe will drop. I guess the other shoe did drop and I survived. Kind of.

[dichotomy]

"Having my back" is the phrase I have used for a long while to describe ultimate trust. Unfortunately (or perhaps realistically) i have come to understand only my late father was this person, there will be no other again. Its fine, I had this level of trust in someone to have my back for 30 years or more. I was fortunate and benefited many times from having my back covered.

 

After two marriages (I am still in second one) and two different betrayal situations in each, trust is gone. At first it was a negative, hard feeling of loss of trust, but now its a calm understanding that humans are flawed creatures, imperfect, and things like adultery are just part of the human condition. Its a calm acceptance mostly (if sad sometimes) that its just the way life is - life is hard, people f up and hurt you - even those that say they love you.

 

I do trust my WW more then ever, I think she has made major changes and has grown all these years, but there are core issues in her that remain and so trust will never get to 100% again. Best case is "trust but verify "situation from know on.

 

I will respond to one point however in the base thread by OP - I am not sure I would leave right away if I caught my wife cheating again in some form. I might simply make some permanent changes to our marriage for a while. Not sure of this, what i might do or not do, but I am a different person now because of all this.

[Mr. Lucky]

I hate to keep harping on this but because I did give him a 2nd chance and he blew it, it's like impossible.

It's interesting to me - and somewhat unfathomable - that someone could forgive a second infidelity. And yet I can't help but wonder what's the difference between one and two - or more? The betrayal is still the same. The physical act still the same - is sleeping with one person 3 times different than sleeping with three people 1 time?

 

For lack of a better way to put it, raises interesting issues of the quality of betrayal versus the quantity of betrayal...

 

Mr. Lucky

[katielee]

that is the point: i can't forgive him for the 2nd one. yet. But I have forgiven myself for staying and trying to work it out.

Like I said - do I just chalk it up to a time period of douchebagness? or should he not get to stay married to me because of it? That punishes me too if he has himself on the straight and narrow NOW.

This has been all very complicated and exhausting to deal with. And the fact that both OW live in this town with us is beyond frustrating. And NO IC thinks this should be an issue. That I should think of them as a painful time in our marriage and that's it. I'm sorry but I'm pretty resolute that i should never have to see the woman i saw my husband making out with. Why does no one (including him) understand that?

 

If someone sees what infidelity has done to their BS and then chooses to do it again - well the quantity of that is probably what will end the marriage.

[No Limit]

Gone. Poof, away. Gone with the wind. Took less time to build than the World Trade Center, but crashes down a hundred times faster, and more destructive.

For me there's no coming back when trust is concerned. And I haven't even been in a relationship yet.

[Mr. Lucky]

If someone sees what infidelity has done to their BS and then chooses to do it again - well the quantity of that is probably what will end the marriage.

 

And yet you're proof that quantity isn't the deciding factor. Simplest answer is each person must decide what works for them...

 

Mr. Lucky

[HereNorThere]

that is the point: i can't forgive him for the 2nd one. yet. But I have forgiven myself for staying and trying to work it out.

Like I said - do I just chalk it up to a time period of douchebagness? or should he not get to stay married to me because of it? That punishes me too if he has himself on the straight and narrow NOW.

This has been all very complicated and exhausting to deal with. And the fact that both OW live in this town with us is beyond frustrating. And NO IC thinks this should be an issue. That I should think of them as a painful time in our marriage and that's it. I'm sorry but I'm pretty resolute that i should never have to see the woman i saw my husband making out with. Why does no one (including him) understand that?

 

If someone sees what infidelity has done to their BS and then chooses to do it again - well the quantity of that is probably what will end the marriage.

 

I think it's more likely that you're able to forgive the first one because you cheated and got caught before that happened. Now he's tipped the scales and it doesn't feel even. It's really hard to see your side of this when you cheated on him first. I'm sure it still hurts the same, but you have to see that you're the one who brought infidelity into the marriage.

[Arieswoman]

Trust after a betrayal of infidelity is so hard to achieve. Before my DH had an A, I trusted him blindly. As a matter of fact I held him so high on a pedestal that I almost made him my little god. He was a man who I thought had outstanding character. On DDay and for years after, I had absolutely no trust in him, nor did I have any respect for him.

 

This is why I ended my first marriage - total and utter loss of respect for my WS.

 

I really admire those who choose to stay and work at it. I could never do it.