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Do they ever get what they've really done?


meandmycats

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Iive been reading here for a long time, and have only just plucked up the courage to write something, so if I cock it up a bit, I hope you will be forgiving.

 

 

When I say do they ever really understand what they've put another person through, I mean it's horrid isn't it? I don't like what it does to a human heart.

 

 

Watched my Mum crumble through it, then she watched me fall apart when my partner did it to me.

 

 

I see Mum and Dad now, happy and content with their lives together after such a traumatic time and I heave a big sigh of relief. They're my parents after all.

 

 

I look back on what my ex partner put me through time and time again (and I let her because I refused to accept it for a while), and I wonder.

 

 

Did she ever really get the full picture of the damage she did? Now when I hear that she is unhappy with her choice and her family say that she regrets losing me I shrug my shoulders and say, 'tough'.

 

 

I am happy with my partner now, but I just wonder if they ever really understand the depth of damage their selfishness caused? I suppose some are that thick skinned.

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TrustedthenBusted

No. They don't. They never REALLY get it.

 

I've even seen some WS's who went on to become BS's and they freaked out just as hard we we do now. Of course when this happens, their focus is on themselves, and THEIR WS, and not on the damage they inflicted in the past.

 

But this is only natural. We never really understand the hurt we cause others. And if you dont believe it, just go to your 20 year High School reunion and get a couple drinks into someone you treated badly back then. You will hardly remember any of it, yet they till tell you stories as clear as if they happened yesterday.

 

That's just the way it goes. We all leave a wake, but our eyes are generally facing forward.

 

 

When explaining it to my wife, who seemed to have trouble understanding why I couldn't move forward as easily as she could, I used the Burn Unit Analogy.

 

I told her it was like she burned be, was sorry, and even came to visit me in the burn unit. She'd be empathetic, and remorseful, bring me gifts, and some of these visits are actually very nice. But she always gets to go home, while I have to stay here here in the Burn Unit until her next visit.

 

I told her once that her affair was always the first thing I thought about when I woke up next to her. And she said " Really? Why do you do that?"

 

 

So no... they just don't get it. And to be fair, if it were reversed, we wouldn't either.

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Iive been reading here for a long time, and have only just plucked up the courage to write something, so if I cock it up a bit, I hope you will be forgiving.

 

 

When I say do they ever really understand what they've put another person through, I mean it's horrid isn't it? I don't like what it does to a human heart.

 

 

Watched my Mum crumble through it, then she watched me fall apart when my partner did it to me.

 

 

I see Mum and Dad now, happy and content with their lives together after such a traumatic time and I heave a big sigh of relief. They're my parents after all.

 

 

I look back on what my ex partner put me through time and time again (and I let her because I refused to accept it for a while), and I wonder.

 

 

Did she ever really get the full picture of the damage she did? Now when I hear that she is unhappy with her choice and her family say that she regrets losing me I shrug my shoulders and say, 'tough'.

 

 

I am happy with my partner now, but I just wonder if they ever really understand the depth of damage their selfishness caused? I suppose some are that thick skinned.

 

Of course they don't get it. They are deluded. Selfish people can only think of themselves and their own interests.

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Since your father is a WS. Have you asked him? He may be able to give you the best insight to these questions at least from his experience.

 

Yes I think some WS can get it. Some are very remorseful and I think "get it" as closely as someone can who hasn't directly gone through it.

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Hell, I couldn't even come to grips with how damaging it was to me. 25lb weight loss in the first month alone (nearly 40lbs lost in total) and my sleep was effed up for nearly a year. I couldn't perform sexually. I had constant obsessive thoughts (yep, as soon as I woke I had to realize that yes, this was my crappy life). Crazy hypervigilance. Freaking crying every day for six months. Bouts of anger.

 

If you'd asked me the day before Dday how I would have handled infidelity, I'd have had no clue it would be like this. I'm sure my wife thought I was just a complete freak. No, she didn't get it. And if she ever did, true remorse would be obvious.

 

All that said, I think a few waywards here do get it and they're some of my favorite posters on these boards.

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The extent top which the WS gets it is important to whether R is possible, IMHO. I understand that getting past the A is hard on both the WS and the BS. The trick is discerning whether the WS is actually trying.

 

I am in the process of divorcing my WS, after trying to R for nine months. I hindsight I should have demanded the D earlier, but I really needed to give it my best shot. It took me too long to accept that she was just not going to come around and commit to the process.

 

My hope all along was that she just wasn't understanding what she had done to me, and that at some point the light bulb would go off for her. Eventually I had to accept that reality was she did understand, she just didn't care. She would have her cake and eat it too for as long as I was going to allow it.

 

Once that reality sunk it, following through with the D was easy.

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I have no idea what I've done to him. I do know it changed him. He is different, in general colder, harder, less trusting and he totally has an off switch. Since my affair any time someone crosses him he hits the switch. There is no second chance, very little forgiveness in him. So different then what he was.

 

What I do know is I'm so sorry for what I've done. After 5 years he has given me another chance and I will spend the rest of my life making sure he doesn't regret that decision. I feel so lucky to have the second chance. We still have work to do, mostly me, but I know as long as he is by my side I can run through any wall.

 

I do "GET IT" even if I don't fully understand his pain.

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I have no idea what I've done to him. I do know it changed him. He is different, in general colder, harder, less trusting and he totally has an off switch. Since my affair any time someone crosses him he hits the switch. There is no second chance, very little forgiveness in him. So different then what he was.

 

What I do know is I'm so sorry for what I've done. After 5 years he has given me another chance and I will spend the rest of my life making sure he doesn't regret that decision. I feel so lucky to have the second chance. We still have work to do, mostly me, but I know as long as he is by my side I can run through any wall.

 

I do "GET IT" even if I don't fully understand his pain.

 

I can relate to a lot of this post. As a fBH, I'm struggling with feeling permanently changed. Some of it (much of it) is simply not for the better.

 

For what it's worth, I'm very pleased to see you reuniting. And honestly, I think your fiance's best hope of shedding some of the bad stuff will be as a result of reconciling with you.

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I can relate to a lot of this post. As a fBH, I'm struggling with feeling permanently changed. Some of it (much of it) is simply not for the better.

 

For what it's worth, I'm very pleased to see you reuniting. And honestly, I think your fiance's best hope of shedding some of the bad stuff will be as a result of reconciling with you.

 

Thank you for the support. I know when I first started posting here so many felt he was out of his mind for allowing me back in his life.

 

Gosh, I hope so, I hope that he can shed that hard shell. I will do whatever it takes to help him in that process. I honestly fear this is forever, yet he is still so wonderful and loving.

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I think, my person finally 'got it'. It took him 2 years to 'get' that I was damaged beyond recognition by him, and that was just skimming the surface.

Now, 4 years later, he is beginning to feel a little of that pain he caused. So, whether they truly get it or not or truly feel what we felt, sometimes even then it's not enough. It changes nothing. I'm leaving.

Again, all he had to be was nice. Being sorry and being kind are two totally different things.

 

I turned down proposals because it was wrong and cruel to do that to my h. Wish he could have done the same the 1 time it happened to him.:(

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I don't think they ever really get it because to do that they have to admit to themselves that they did a selfish, cowardly, hurtful thing. People really have a hard time accepting that they did something this "bad" and rationalize it until they can sleep at night. Over time their memories change and they may even blame BS for pushing them into cheating. That bastard/bitch drove me to do it!

 

My wife doesn't get it. Never has and never will. I don't think she is much different then any other WS in that she is narcissistic and felt entitled to do what she did. She is sorry it all happened because it has caused her a lot of grief having to deal with my sadness & anger. She has been a good wife and mother ever since because that is how she wants to live. It works best for her if she doesn't cheat and tells me how sorry she is. Then she has me as a companion, a provider, and a father to complete the family life she wants. I never kid myself that her "love" is anything more than her taking very good care of herself. And I also don't kid myself that our relationship is somehow unique in this manner. I would bet that at least half of all marriages end up the same way.

 

 

And for those of you who say "I would never live like this" let me remind you of what you thought you would do if your partner ever cheated on you.

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I don't think they ever really get it because to do that they have to admit to themselves that they did a selfish, cowardly, hurtful thing. People really have a hard time accepting that they did something this "bad" and rationalize it until they can sleep at night. Over time their memories change and they may even blame BS for pushing them into cheating. That bastard/bitch drove me to do it!

 

My wife doesn't get it. Never has and never will. I don't think she is much different then any other WS in that she is narcissistic and felt entitled to do what she did. She is sorry it all happened because it has caused her a lot of grief having to deal with my sadness & anger. She has been a good wife and mother ever since because that is how she wants to live. It works best for her if she doesn't cheat and tells me how sorry she is. Then she has me as a companion, a provider, and a father to complete the family life she wants. I never kid myself that her "love" is anything more than her taking very good care of herself. And I also don't kid myself that our relationship is somehow unique in this manner. I would bet that at least half of all marriages end up the same way.

No, they never really get it, no one but someone who's been betrayed gets it.(But how nice to read about DKT3 and lovinDKT.)

 

My H is pretty similar — sorry it happened because of how it hurt me and a good father and grandfather now. When he's in counseling with me, he shows promise of becoming a more aware partner, sensitive to my changes and needs, but it doesn't last long. He's definitely best at taking care of himself — great, in fact. He remembers everything about how people relate to him, nothing about how we've moved through the world as a couple. Absolutely nothing. He stays in the marriage because he knows I would smear his name from here to kingdom come if he were the first to bail.

 

Not feeling too enthusiastic these days actually. As someone who often comes across on the minus side of realistic about reconciled marriages, are you really convinced you're doing the right thing, drifter?

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meandmycats,

 

I am happy with my partner now, but I just wonder if they ever really understand the depth of damage their selfishness caused? I suppose some are that thick skinned.

 

Sadly, mmc, they will never understand, unless it happens to them.

 

These people are selfish, self-absorbed and have no empathy.

 

But just wait until fate deals them a body-blow, then they are all over FB wailing about how much they are suffering and how cruel life is. All this is to engender sympathy for their plight. ( Yuck ! )

 

These people lack empathy and will never be any different. They should be pitied rather than hated.

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Since your father is a WS. Have you asked him? He may be able to give you the best insight to these questions at least from his experience.

 

Yes I think some WS can get it. Some are very remorseful and I think "get it" as closely as someone can who hasn't directly gone through it.[/QUOT

 

 

I hadn't thought about this direct approach actually. We are a very close and supportive family. I laugh because my other half thinks we're all nuts! But truthfully, I have never discussed it with him because I didn't feel it was right to.

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meandmycats, They may see that their actions have disturbed you in some ways. However they never truly get just how bad they have hurt you. They do not understand that they have probably changed your perspectives for life. I will tell you that most women I have talked with or dated are very self-entitled narcissistic greedy beasts. The last few times I tried to go on dates I would see these lovely traits and I ended up walking out on the date. For me I don't even bother with women anymore because it is too much drama and too much of a risk for me. Instead I focus my time on doing things I like to do, improving myself and enjoying life. Truthfully I come to the board to remind myself how good I have it.

 

Now don't get me wrong, men cheat too. Trouble is that most men don't keep it hidden as well as women do. I have no sympathy for these men who cheat. After all most women don't like sharing their man and it really upsets them if they are sharing their man and don't know about it. These men just like the women don't really get how badly they have hurt someone. I believe that most of the time, men and women that cheat really don't care how badly they have hurt their spouse. Catch your wife cheating on you then ask her "So does this mean I get to bang your best friend as many times as you banged the other man"? I can tell you that she will fight you tooth and nail on this, even just a one time lay. Also consider that in the case of a BH banging another woman, the WW knows about it in advance unlike the BH. So people that cheat not only do not understand just how badly they hurt their spouse, they also have no respect for their spouse and they damn sure don't want the spouse to feel that they have been compensated at all. Thankfully I no longer have to put up with this kind of crap. Next woman that cheats on me would be pulling off a real magic trick since there are no other women for me. Well except the fine looking escorts once in a while.:p

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Some do, some don't. Some get it, understand it - they simply don't care - that's called Character Disorder.

 

For my wife (at the time) she believed cheating was ...something that just happened... and was "okay" in many situations and the cheaters could be loving good spouses. Her dad cheated on her mom and her friends cheated, but they were all good people, loving spouses - right? Her dad was a good man right?

 

Funny thing was when she finally thought I might be having an physical affair (about 3 years after dDay) - she felt these waves of tears, and horror. Because if I cheated - well that meant I surely did not love her - because I had a high standard on fidelity.

Kind of like the difference between a husband like Mike Tyson hitting her, or Mister Rogers. Its not the abuse really - its who it comes from.

 

Whatever..... she was very selfish and had some character disorder. Years of therapy and distance have helped her perspective, and understanding of what affairs do, made her much less selfish. But as far as getting it - she certainly got the consequences with me and the marriage of her EA's and lies, she understands the price she paid, if not mine, or the wives and kids of the OM's

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I have talked to enough folks that have cheated to say some do get it. That said, it is the ones who have the one night stand verses the long-term affair that have the greatest awareness or earliest. My ex...no clue. I am a shell of the person I was in my 20s and no amount of time or therapy will return what was lost. Sure, I catch glimpses of that person every now and then but she is just a ghost. We simply move forward.

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dichotomy,

I can relate to this apparent "double standard";

 

Funny thing was when she finally thought I might be having an physical affair (about 3 years after dDay) - she felt these waves of tears, and horror. Because if I cheated - well that meant I surely did not love her - because I had a high standard on fidelity.

Kind of like the difference between a husband like Mike Tyson hitting her, or Mister Rogers. Its not the abuse really - its who it comes from.

 

A long time after DD ( I divorced him) I asked my WS how he would have felt if I had ever cheated on him.

 

He said "You would never do that, I would never expect that of you, only of myself, you would never cheat, you are better than that". Duh?

 

So, I asked him how he felt now he was with a women who not only cheated with him but cheated on her fiance at the same time. He said "It is all I deserve". Duh?

 

Despite all this, I never had an apology and I am sure he doesn't understand the impact of his actions. However, as we have been apart 10+ years, it's largely irrelevent now.:rolleyes:

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Lovin gets it NOW. Back then she had no clue. I remember questioning her, when she was still lying about the whole thing and her facial expression would be yelling "not this again" she was totally dismissive, in denial and simply refused to face or even admit it. For 8 months she would lie, be combative make threats. After 8 months I was like "f--k it" I became distant did the whole 180 thing before I knew what it was. I still traveled a ton and I simply would never answer her calls or texts. When at home I ignored her and did my thing. It was after about 2 or 3 months of that she started to GET IT. The next 3 months was her walking around like a zombie and asking me, it seemed like every hour "are you OK? Are we OK?" Yep is the only thing she would get. She knew it was over.

 

In hindsight she got it, NOW she gets it. Then she got nothing. Hell if she did she would have been honest and open.

 

We are in a great place now, she works her butt off trying to make me feel safe. It can be annoying at times but its what she feels she has to do, and I'm OK what that.

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gettingstronger

I am not sure they can fully feel what its like to be betrayed like that- they have the guilt and the remorse and all the other burdens like watching us fall apart, but that gut punch you get when you first find out is nothing anyone can fully "get" unless its happened to them-

 

My husband is working hard to be the man he should be and like Loving, he is truly remorseful but will he ever feel that sick feeling- probably not- although from watching him, I know he has feelings I could never fathom- I can not imagine doing what he has done and I can not imagine having to live with that- he says he feels "less than...." when I ask, less than what- he has no real answer- less than human, less than he was before, etc.. he says just doesn't do justice to the amount of shame he feels-

 

I believe this to be true, because even those that claim to be happy with their AP after DDay, in a relationship, etc... continue to post and defend and deflect- its like they are trying to convince themselves-its odd because I can not imagine being fully healed and spending so much time trying to convince strangers that "my situation is different because....."

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I hope that he can shed that hard shell. I will do whatever it takes to help him in that process. I honestly fear this is forever, yet he is still so wonderful and loving.

 

He's learned a lesson that he can't trust anyone (even the person for whom he's dedicated more than anyone else in his life).

 

You're proving him wrong. And it's not going to take forever. The fact that he's asked for your hand in marriage already speaks to that quite effectively. I wouldn't rest on your laurels but the fact is that you've been through the hardest part. Keep your chin up. Continuing your consistent actions over time will help him shed a lot more of the inherent negativity. That's my $.02 anyway.

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My wake up day came about 6 weeks after he caught me cheating, when I stopped to visit with our cats, and realized that another woman had spent the night in our bed. I totally collapsed and realized that the pain I was suffering from was similar to what I had done to him. This was doubled when I knew that I had no chance of ever getting him back. This was doubled again when a couple of days later I found out that the woman had been one of my better friends. I had bragged to my friends how great he was in bed, how stupid can you get?

 

But I did not give up and tried and had hope for a couple of years. I finally had to move out of the area, back to my home state, where I eventually married a second time. The second husband turned out to be a total jerk, but I stuck it out until the boys went off on their own 20 years later and moved back to live with my mom, the same city where I met my first H. After almost 24 years, I though I was finally over him for good, until one day I noticed him driving by my moms house. I briefly had hope, until I realized that he was only taking a short cut from the hobby store down the street to the freeway.

 

Before I purchased my own home, I did some checking and found out that he had been with his current lady for several years, and I found out where they lived, and bought a house way out of his area. There was one house that was my dream house, alas it was not available.

 

The past holidays he unknowingly struck again. My son brought out my grandson, and a couple of nights before Christmas we all went out for Mexican food. Just my luck, about half way thru the meal, guess who walked thru the dining room with his lady. I have no chance, she is gorgeous, and a woman can tell she is totally in love with him and he with her.

 

Then two nights later while taking my grandson out to see the lights, I discovered guess who was now living in my favorite house. I went home that night broken as I knew that woman was sleeping with my man in my house.

 

 

Yes, I get it. And get it.

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My wake up day came about 6 weeks after he caught me cheating, when I stopped to visit with our cats, and realized that another woman had spent the night in our bed. I totally collapsed and realized that the pain I was suffering from was similar to what I had done to him. This was doubled when I knew that I had no chance of ever getting him back. This was doubled again when a couple of days later I found out that the woman had been one of my better friends. I had bragged to my friends how great he was in bed, how stupid can you get?

 

But I did not give up and tried and had hope for a couple of years. I finally had to move out of the area, back to my home state, where I eventually married a second time. The second husband turned out to be a total jerk, but I stuck it out until the boys went off on their own 20 years later and moved back to live with my mom, the same city where I met my first H. After almost 24 years, I though I was finally over him for good, until one day I noticed him driving by my moms house. I briefly had hope, until I realized that he was only taking a short cut from the hobby store down the street to the freeway.

 

Before I purchased my own home, I did some checking and found out that he had been with his current lady for several years, and I found out where they lived, and bought a house way out of his area. There was one house that was my dream house, alas it was not available.

 

The past holidays he unknowingly struck again. My son brought out my grandson, and a couple of nights before Christmas we all went out for Mexican food. Just my luck, about half way thru the meal, guess who walked thru the dining room with his lady. I have no chance, she is gorgeous, and a woman can tell she is totally in love with him and he with her.

 

Then two nights later while taking my grandson out to see the lights, I discovered guess who was now living in my favorite house. I went home that night broken as I knew that woman was sleeping with my man in my house.

 

 

Yes, I get it. And get it.

 

 

Crikey NY, that's probably the most sensitively written acknowledgment of what it's like to actually pay the price for betrayal in the long term I have ever come across anywhere!

 

 

A truly open and honest insight to the real cost to a wayward spouse. I applaud your courage for telling it and I hope you have found some solace in your family, as I do.

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