Something I WHOLE HEARTEDLY believe

[longjourney]

not only the fact that after 6 years, she felt entitled...my

H

must have made some pretty serious promises to her, which is true.

^^^actually, the OW was not feeling 'entitled, but heavily invested. Every morning for so many years your H spun a dream for her that became the basis of her day to day existence. He created for her the 'happily ever after.'

Plus, and this is some cold water thrown, the OW was not an 'intruder' into the marriage. She was an invited guest by the wayward husband. He brought her into the marriage, and he kept her on standby just outside that family photo. He did not have the 'courtesy' to provide advance notification.

This is why I preach focus on the WS. As BSs, we have NO IDEA who said what, and what the power dynamic was like in the A. We all want to believe that our WSs were victims of seducers and, once trapped, couldn't get out. The potential of that self-denial can blind us from looking with a very discerning eye at our WSs today, as they truly are, and what they need to do to fix things.

 

Maybe the OW was given a bunch of false promises and commitments. Maybe the OW was groomed by my WH. Maybe the OW was manipulated constantly throughout the A by my WH a sociopath. Maybe he was a predator that looked to reconnect with her. Who knows? It doesn't matter vis a vis my WH destroyed our marriage's innocence and vows. But I have to say that if the OW's husband starting 'blaming' my husband for his wife's choice to take a dump on their marriage, I would have to laugh. And wonder what his problem was.

 

Again, that is why we say focus on the WS - we should be talking about "how could the WS do that for so long" and "taint so many years", "what is the special brokenness of a WS to have an LTA", and "what do our memories mean", etc. ...the unique emotional strength it takes to even accept, much less forgive, that the LTA happened. That is traumatic.

[gettingstronger]

I agree- I focus on my WS as the only one responsible for the A- he is an adult and should have said NO-

 

However, our OWs behavior after dday belongs to her- she just will not go away-

[Mount]

Of course, you are so right and clear-headed.

 

Not to judge who is bad guy/gal here, here are the fact below:-

 

1) My (x)MM had tried to ask me go to his (and his wife) house multiple times or even slept in their bed when his wife being away, and I refused again and again, only agreed to stop by 15 minutes in the first year of affair.

 

2) Just 2 months before our breakup, he even asked me to go along with their vacation, and arranged me in another hotel. I went along this time.

 

3) Even now our affair is ended, he tried to maintain the marriage with wife and wife asked him has zero contact with me, but that is not the case at all. But, again since we both decide we are not going to restart the affair, even we still have contact, (x)MM is not in my personal life anymore.

 

However, he told me that he did not disclose how heavily we were involved during the 2.5 affair when wife asked him, he must tried his best to minimize.

 

 

 

 

not only the fact that after 6 years, she felt entitled...my

H

must have made some pretty serious promises to her, which is true.

^^^actually, the OW was not feeling 'entitled, but heavily invested. Every morning for so many years your H spun a dream for her that became the basis of her day to day existence. He created for her the 'happily ever after.'

Plus, and this is some cold water thrown, the OW was not an 'intruder' into the marriage. She was an invited guest by the wayward husband. He brought her into the marriage, and he kept her on standby just outside that family photo. He did not have the 'courtesy' to provide advance notification.

This is why I preach focus on the WS. As BSs, we have NO IDEA who said what, and what the power dynamic was like in the A. We all want to believe that our WSs were victims of seducers and, once trapped, couldn't get out. The potential of that self-denial can blind us from looking with a very discerning eye at our WSs today, as they truly are, and what they need to do to fix things.

 

Maybe the OW was given a bunch of false promises and commitments. Maybe the OW was groomed by my WH. Maybe the OW was manipulated constantly throughout the A by my WH a sociopath. Maybe he was a predator that looked to reconnect with her. Who knows? It doesn't matter vis a vis my WH destroyed our marriage's innocence and vows. But I have to say that if the OW's husband starting 'blaming' my husband for his wife's choice to take a dump on their marriage, I would have to laugh. And wonder what his problem was.

 

Again, that is why we say focus on the WS - we should be talking about "how could the WS do that for so long" and "taint so many years", "what is the special brokenness of a WS to have an LTA", and "what do our memories mean", etc. ...the unique emotional strength it takes to even accept, much less forgive, that the LTA happened. That is traumatic.

[Sub]

It depends on the situation. Obviously, most of the onus goes to my WW. The A happened because of her. The struggles at the time in our marriage happened because of us, as a couple. But in regards to their R, I do know who said what, plain as day in texts, emails, chats, etc. So, I understand the dynamic very well. I think it's fair to hold him partly responsible when he says he's a friend trying to help her work on her M, and then proceeds to fulfill a secret fantasy he had from before we were married.

[No Limit]

Not a BS either (nor WS). But when I hear about long-term affairs of 14 years... woah, there must be something terribly wrong in the heads of those people.

 

I do agree with you though OP. No one is forced into infidelity (except maybe rape, but I highly doubt rapists have relationships?!), it is a choice and always will be. Don't tell me that you couldn't resist because he/she offered him/herself so willingly. If you had a bad day and there was a gun laying on the table right in front of you, would you pick it up and shoot yourself because it just offered itself? Twist your justifications however you like, obviously the ideas you vowed for aren't taken seriously or your character is just lacking stability. And if someone really isn't capable of thinking and behaving reasonably, I advise you to learn it. Immanuel Kant's works from the 18th century might give you a whole new perspective.

 

Well, and OWs/OMs? There are those who do just want to get into bed with anyone they desire at the moment. "Predatory" ones, even. And of course you have those sociopath husbands whose naive wives are just blinded over and over again, just like his OW(s) is/are. Ones' self-esteem must equal the size of an atom to let yourself be treated this way, or you're just pretty gullible. But again, I'd focus on the BS here; he/she made the vows. OW/OM owes you nothing at all. It's not like they could offer any more help other than going back to wherever they came from; a marriage is fixed by 2 people, not 3.

 

On the other hand, since my trust can't be repaired - in different words, I'd divorce on the spot, even if it were the day of our childs birth after 10 wonderful years wasted together - I'd actually be happy if OW would take the burden of a husband who can't make up his mind off my shoulders. I can't have irrational people in my home.

[Goodbye]

Really insightful post.

[purplesorrow]

I never thought my ws was a victim. Nor did I think the OW was a victim. They are both adults who chose to do what they did. My ws was the one accountable to me. He is the one I dealt with. Just like I didn't exist to the OW, she didn't exist to me. They both earned whatever they suffered because of their choices. There was nothing I wanted from the ow and nothing that should could give me.

[HermioneG]

We all want to believe our waywards were seduced? Huh??

 

I have never thought that, nor would I believe it for one hot second. My spouse acted on his own free choice. He made bad decision after bad decision, and so did the OW. Partners in crime, so to speak.

 

I don't understand the concept of attempting to assign more blame- whether it be on the wayward or the affair partner.

 

The only exception is if the affair partner is unaware of the marriage.

 

Outside of that? Both participants are equally to blame. But in reconciliation, if chosen, the affair partner should be a non-entity to the concept of recovery. Yes/ the affair partner showed no respect for the betrayed spouse, and in the annals of human kindness would not get a gold star for that, but to reconcile, the issue is with the wayward. Because in the end? Waywards cheat because of coping issues and what's wrong with them. It's a personal problem, and the affair partner is not a factor in that.

 

I am not trying to be argumentative with the OP- but I think I took umbrage to the idea of "all". Certainly, some people focus where they should not because they are not ready to accept what happened. But that is an awful wide brush to say "we all" or to think the married partner is the manipulator. Affairs suck. They deceptive and harmful, and hurt everyone they involve. Everyone.

[HermioneG]

I never thought my ws was a victim. Nor did I think the OW was a victim. They are both adults who chose to do what they did. My ws was the one accountable to me. He is the one I dealt with. Just like I didn't exist to the OW, she didn't exist to me. They both earned whatever they suffered because of their choices. There was nothing I wanted from the ow and nothing that should could give me.

 

Or this. Purple sorrow said this much more succinctly than I. Yes.

[Furious]

not only the fact that after 6 years, she felt entitled...my

H

must have made some pretty serious promises to her, which is true.

^^^actually, the OW was not feeling 'entitled, but heavily invested. Every morning for so many years your H spun a dream for her that became the basis of her day to day existence. He created for her the 'happily ever after.'

Plus, and this is some cold water thrown, the OW was not an 'intruder' into the marriage. She was an invited guest by the wayward husband. He brought her into the marriage, and he kept her on standby just outside that family photo. He did not have the 'courtesy' to provide advance notification.

This is why I preach focus on the WS. As BSs, we have NO IDEA who said what, and what the power dynamic was like in the A. We all want to believe that our WSs were victims of seducers and, once trapped, couldn't get out. The potential of that self-denial can blind us from looking with a very discerning eye at our WSs today, as they truly are, and what they need to do to fix things.

 

Maybe the OW was given a bunch of false promises and commitments. Maybe the OW was groomed by my WH. Maybe the OW was manipulated constantly throughout the A by my WH a sociopath. Maybe he was a predator that looked to reconnect with her. Who knows? It doesn't matter vis a vis my WH destroyed our marriage's innocence and vows. But I have to say that if the OW's husband starting 'blaming' my husband for his wife's choice to take a dump on their marriage, I would have to laugh. And wonder what his problem was.

 

Again, that is why we say focus on the WS - we should be talking about "how could the WS do that for so long" and "taint so many years", "what is the special brokenness of a WS to have an LTA", and "what do our memories mean", etc. ...the unique emotional strength it takes to even accept, much less forgive, that the LTA happened. That is traumatic.

 

 

Some people are vulnerable.

Some people are looking for someone to sweep them off their feet.

Some people believe words and not actions.

Some people cannot leave a relationship unless they have someone in the wings. Some people cannot be alone, even if they're unhappy in that relationship.

Some people can compartmentalize.

Some people trust someone who has shown they can and do lie.

Some people put aside their ethics if they want someone.

Some people are greedy.

Some people make poor choices.

Some people are hypocrites.

Some people enjoy the thrill of a secret relationship.

some people want marriage and an affair partner.

Some people are willing to be an OW/OM.

Some people get hurt.

 

It's really complicated. There are so many variables. An affair takes two people and the variables they bring to it. Affairs are a two way street and everyone has the choice to put their foot on the brakes.

 

Some people make mistakes, but it doesn't mean they can't move on from it and grow from it.

 

Blame, is easy, taking responsibility is the hard thing to do.

[merrmeade]

Really insightful post.

 

Which one?

[jnel921]

It takes two to tango. Both are to blame an should be accountable. She is wrong to tempt him and he was wrong to go in.

 

I refuse to torment myself over those choices.

[longjourney]

WOW, many replies, very thought provoking discussions going on here, always a GOOD thing.

 

 

When I posted, I was originally referring to the BS putting the bulk of the blame on the OW/OM. Some find it is just basic nature since you are trying to R your M with your BS, not the OM/OW. It is "easier" to see the AP as the evil doer. If you don't trick the mind into believing your WS, how can you even R in your mind that the person that vowed to put you before all others lied, f#@$d another person, shared secrets and in my case was/is deeply in love with the AP. So what do we do as humans? We trick ourselves into seeing ALL the good in our BS's while villainizing the AP.

 

 

How else do we R within ourselves to stay, much less R the M?

[cocorico]

 

The WS is not a victim and neither is the OW/OM. They are partners in crime.

 

Infidelity is not a crime.

[Sub]

Infidelity is not a crime.

 

I think it was a figure of speech.

[Sub]

We trick ourselves into seeing ALL the good in our BS's while villainizing the AP.

 

I don't necessarily think it's a trick. We recall all the good our spouses have done. If we think they're still that person, capable of being that person again, or see a desire to be that person....that's why we R, in my humble opinion. We take the time to work through what happened WITH them. I don't need to work through anything with the AP. They're not going to be a part of my life. I only hold him responsible for his actions/words/part. I don't know what kind of person he is outside of the A, so I only have that info to go on. I'd be silly to assume he was the devil incarnate, because what does that say about me if my W considered leaving me for him. But the A was a real thing that he knowingly took part in. And it just stops there for me with him. The story of my W and I continues.

[purplesorrow]

WOW, many replies, very thought provoking discussions going on here, always a GOOD thing.

 

 

When I posted, I was originally referring to the BS putting the bulk of the blame on the OW/OM. Some find it is just basic nature since you are trying to R your M with your BS, not the OM/OW. It is "easier" to see the AP as the evil doer. If you don't trick the mind into believing your WS, how can you even R in your mind that the person that vowed to put you before all others lied, f#@$d another person, shared secrets and in my case was/is deeply in love with the AP. So what do we do as humans? We trick ourselves into seeing ALL the good in our BS's while villainizing the AP.

 

 

How else do we R within ourselves to stay, much less R the M?

 

I didn't trick myself into anything. Why would I? My WS did a very *****ty thing. I saw him for what he was at that time. A very selfish, self-centered, lying cheating a$$. I didn't know his ow, so I didn't vilify her. He wrecked our home, the ow and the affair are the tools he used to do it. I can now attempt to R because he has worked hard not to be that person anymore. Seems he didn't like himself very much during that time either.

[HermioneG]

WOW, many replies, very thought provoking discussions going on here, always a GOOD thing.

 

 

When I posted, I was originally referring to the BS putting the bulk of the blame on the OW/OM. Some find it is just basic nature since you are trying to R your M with your BS, not the OM/OW. It is "easier" to see the AP as the evil doer. If you don't trick the mind into believing your WS, how can you even R in your mind that the person that vowed to put you before all others lied, f#@$d another person, shared secrets and in my case was/is deeply in love with the AP. So what do we do as humans? We trick ourselves into seeing ALL the good in our BS's while villainizing the AP.

 

 

How else do we R within ourselves to stay, much less R the M?

 

I think I understand your point, although that is not what I did at all. But I tossed my spouse out on his rear, and changed the locks. So I was not doing any bargaining or rationalization. I don't think all betrayeds blame the AP more. Some, probably, but it is not a universal application, in my experience.

[HermioneG]

I don't necessarily think it's a trick. We recall all the good our spouses have done. If we think they're still that person, capable of being that person again, or see a desire to be that person....that's why we R, in my humble opinion. We take the time to work through what happened WITH them. I don't need to work through anything with the AP. They're not going to be a part of my life. I only hold him responsible for his actions/words/part. I don't know what kind of person he is outside of the A, so I only have that info to go on. I'd be silly to assume he was the devil incarnate, because what does that say about me if my W considered leaving me for him. But the A was a real thing that he knowingly took part in. And it just stops there for me with him. The story of my W and I continues.

 

 

Yes. Exactly.

 

Someone once said that when looking at the role of your wayward in the affair- you are looking at one chapter in a book. You have to decide for yourself how much that chapter matters in the big picture. With the AP? I did not have a book on her, so my only reference on her was negative, but does it matter? She is not part of my life.

 

I do not see how that recognition is s trick.

[gettingstronger]

Infidelity is not a crime.

I think it was a figure of speech.

 

 

And infidelity is illegal is some states here in the US- like mine-

[Spark1111]

WOW, many replies, very thought provoking discussions going on here, always a GOOD thing.

 

 

When I posted, I was originally referring to the BS putting the bulk of the blame on the OW/OM. Some find it is just basic nature since you are trying to R your M with your BS, not the OM/OW. It is "easier" to see the AP as the evil doer. If you don't trick the mind into believing your WS, how can you even R in your mind that the person that vowed to put you before all others lied, f#@$d another person, shared secrets and in my case was/is deeply in love with the AP. So what do we do as humans? We trick ourselves into seeing ALL the good in our BS's while villainizing the AP.

 

 

How else do we R within ourselves to stay, much less R the M?

 

Assigning blame to the AP after DDAY is a very NORMAL knee-jerk reaction to suffering the pain of discovering infidelity.

 

It is almost impossible while in shock to hate the person we so loved and trusted. The original blind rage we feel towards the AP is actually a diversion that protects are psyche while we try to process betrayal by our loved one.

 

Some get stuck here but most move on...when they are ready to...to assigning the majority of blame where it belongs...on the spouse who lied and cheated on us.

 

But don't get me wrong. She was far from blameless too just of much less significance to the healing of our marriage.

[merrmeade]

Infidelity is not a crime.

No, but adultery is considered morally wrong in most cultures.

 

Committing infidelity and betrayal takes the same mindset as committing a crime. You must rationalize what you are doing, what once might have been unthinkable actions, based on "true love," spouse doesn't meet needs or understand, irrisistible seduction — whatever the APs work up. You must turn off the conscience, redefine marriage vows and people, convince yourself the spouse(s) is/are undeserving or uninterested. You must learn to lie, cheat, trick and generally manipulate circumstances and people. Adulterers often enjoy the risk-taking and secrecy.

 

So how is the person successful at infidelity - and don't forget the very necessary concomitant betrayal - different from a criminal? If you get really good at the deception and manipulation, why not consider a career change outright. Beats dealing with the annoying self-pity of a BS that's just a reminder of a lifestyle you can't handle. Of course, the unmarried OW/OM wouldn't even have to do that!

 

I'm sure there are more parallels...

Edited October 14, 2014 by merrmeade

[AlwaysGrowing]

Like others have stated, the WS has a history that is a more complete picture of who they are..there is love, kindness, compassion and caring.

 

An AP decides to enter into the BS life in an extremely negative, hurtful and disrespectful way. That is the person that they decided to show the BS.

 

So it is understandable why many would not have a favourable opinion of the AP in any regard.

 

Who is more responsible for this view...the AP or the BS?

 

And if we are all being honest here...who would ever allow someone who out of the gate callously disregarded you as a person with feelings to ever be anything other than that to you?

 

I think most BS hold both the WS and AP accountable for the affair.

[Raena]

I don't think it matters who you put the blame on... the two involved in the affair are BOTH at fault... equally. If you are talking about strictly from the BS point of view.... yes, the wanderer is at fault for not being faithful, but so is the person s/he involved in the situation, especially if they KNEW the person was married.

 

In the end, does it matter whose fault it is? I suppose it does if you want to reconcile. But if you don't reconcile, what difference does it really make?

[DKT3]

Infidelity is not a crime.

Actually it is in many parts of the world, in fact in some places it carries a death sentence. Adultery is still illegal in 21 States in the US but is rarely enforced. In 2001 the State of Virgina charged and convicted a man of adultery. In 5 States its a felony in Michigan it carries a life sentence. TODAY. So yeah in many places across the globe it is seriously illegal.