quasi-infidelity and moving forward

[kindascared]

My girlfriend who I will call, Mary, had a threesome. We have been pining over each other for the past 10 years but were star-crossed and we could not be together (other relationships with kids involved). We finally united under some very crazy circumstances.

 

She made it clear to me that she wanted to be free after an 8 year relationship. I told her I would be here waiting for her. I am so in love with Mary, and I REALLY broke her heart when we were kids, and she didn't trust that my relationship was completely over as there was a pattern of behavior on my part that would lead her to believe this.

 

I knew the relationship was over, I knew she was in love with me and I just needed to prove to her that I was serious…this time. She has this best friend, Autumn, who she has a quasi romantic relationship with. They filled in for each other what their partners didn’t and they have been intimate with each other.

 

Right after her breakup, Mary started to really let loose, drinking a little too much, being reckless, thrill-seeking behavior. She just wanted to live it up a bit. I get it. She went over Autumns house and I KNEW she was going to have a threesome. It wasn't planned, but I could tell Mary’s state of mind and she had a threesome with this person before.

 

At this time, we had only started talking about being in a relationship for about 2 weeks and we were FRESH out of our last relationships. He had only had sex once, the week before. So, at the party, Autumn is giving Mary a hard time about this impending relationship that is getting serious really fast. They have an argument and Mary starts to drink. I talk to Mary on the phone and tell her that “I am worried about whats going to happen at this party”, she says “Don’t fret”. I fret. She calls me later that night to have phone sex and Autumn walks walks in a kind of joins her. Mary’s phone goes dead and I know she is drunk, and very horny now, and unfulfilled. She ends up having a threesome with Autumn and Autumn’s husband. The events so far I am certain are pretty accurate.

 

I had told Mary that she needs to see what is going to make her happy in life and that I wouldn't stand in her way. She says the threesome was a serious regret in her life and we are now in a committed relationship and everything is really perfect.

 

Except, I am still hurt by the threesome. I feel really dumb because if I would have just told her that I don’t want her to be with anyone else, I know she would have agreed and this wouldn't be an issue. It would have assured her that I was serious. I was just trying to be understanding and respectful of her agency. So, how do I get over this? Should this be considered cheating? I know her love for me is unmatched and I have the same for her. We weren't a couple when this happened but it was on the horizon. I can say that I trust her pretty deeply, and she is the most honest person that I know. I also know that this time in her life created some uncharacteristic behavior in her. So, its not a trust issue. It is really just that I am a little hurt. Any advice?

[petee]

I think any rational bloke would be hurt. But, having no experience about 3somes did she interact with the other woman's husband? If not then I'd put it down to sexual charged and curious with her friend.

If,however, she had interaction with the husband I do believe I'd be in a worse state than you. Regardless oft your exact status at that moment, she wanted you and took him........that I a particularly bitter pill to swallow. Especially as you were phone sexing her minutes beforehand. You need to know what went on.

Is she remorseful or embarrassed? Truly?

[kindascared]

Yeah. They had sex. If it was just the girlfriend I wouldn't be having this issue. I know thats sexist but thats just how I feel. She hates that she did it. She feels a lot of regret and remorse. She says not just because it hurt me, but because it was out of her character and she just didn't like that she did it. I can see the "she wanted me and took him" deal, and that feels scary. When I was inaccessible (deployed and married), she always wanted me but fulfilled her desire in other ways. What was she supposed to do, wait for me forever. It took her a really long time to get to a point where she could live life without the pain of not having me, and that never fully went away. I can forgive the replacement of me, because I don't see it as being replaced but taking what you can get. I know that no one could take my place in her heart. I know pretty much everything about that night. I know I wouldn't leave her for this. I don't think I would leave her ever, but I really don't want to hold this over her head.

[BetrayedH]

It's not cheating. You weren't exclusive.

 

That said, the foundation for your relationship is a train wreck. I think you should be looking at that a bit more objectively.

[Spectre]

Okay I am sorry to say that you seem to be experiencing a huge case of denial here. First of all..you call yourself and this woman "star crossed" and how you were pining over each other, even during a time when you guys were with other people and had kids with these people. So, emotional affairs all around, you don't pine for someone if you are with someone else. So you need to stop romanticizing this..thing you have. Basically, when you have already emotionally cheated on previous partners with this person..it is probably time to walk away.

 

Second, she gets out of a long relationship and suddenly wants to sleep around and have threesomes? Right, you are kind of just hand waving that behavior. I would ask if this person is only like 20 years old, but you said she just got out of an 8 year relationship so she has to be older.

 

The truth is if you guys were "on the horizon" to becoming a couple and she goes out and has a threesome with some other guy and her friend? This girl is not that into you. If she truly wanted you..she wouldn't be sleeping with other people, man or woman. Which to be clear, just because you fool around with your own gender does not somehow make it better. Sex with someone else is sex with someone else.

 

So you say you wouldn't leave her for this, but again it just seems like denial. This person does not act in a manner befitting someone who cares about you. She didn't need to have a threesome, but she did it anyways even though she had to of known it would hurt you. Her getting porked was more important then your feelings, but you don't want to leave her?

 

I don't know what else to say, it sounds like you have already convinced yourself you should not walk away..even though it's quite clear you should. With that attitude, I don't know what you expect people to do for you. You think people are going to advise you to stay with a woman who does this?

 

Come on, you have shoved this to the side on a technicality, because you weren't officially together..but if you were "on the horizon" then really, what does that say about her still? It is totally true that she wasn't cheating, and it is also totally true her behavior shows she does not give a damn about you. I don't know what else to tell you man. All I can say is I can almost guarantee this relationship is not going to end well, so you should get out while you can. Anyone looking out for you will tell you the same thing: bail now before you just wind up getting hurt even worse down the road. Jump out of the car now, it might still be moving and you will take some scrapes, but it is better then being inside of that car when it smashes into a brick wall at 60 mph.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Spectre

[DKT3]

Yeah doesn't sound much like a great foundation to build a relationship on. Personally I would run. She seems to have poor boundaries.

[Spectre]

Yeah. They had sex. If it was just the girlfriend I wouldn't be having this issue. I know thats sexist but thats just how I feel. She hates that she did it. She feels a lot of regret and remorse. She says not just because it hurt me, but because it was out of her character and she just didn't like that she did it. I can see the "she wanted me and took him" deal, and that feels scary.

 

Here is the other problem, first I have to ask..you said you could TELL that she was going to go have a threesome, that it was her "state of mind". What does that even mean? Was she going "Man, I sure am in a threesome kind of mood today!" or something? I just don't get this. How does someone be around someone they are on "the horizon" to getting involved with, someone they have apparently been pining for..for a long time..and basically drop hints about how she is about to go screw two other people?

 

You also say she claims it was out of character, but you also say this isn't the first time she had a threesome so..you can see how we already have a contradiction, right?

[kindascared]

Yeah absolutely. Its contradicting and I don't want to defend her, but the truth is she isn't here to defend herself, so I can't comment on her intent. I know her, and it is our of her character. She has had threesome with only Autumn. Like i said she was just being reckless. I don't think she had the intent to have a threesome, but i knew with a little alcohol and the chance, it would definitely happen. Now, I can be judged very hard, and heavily on this, and I am not proud of myself, but, by all accounts, we should not have been pursuing a relationship as soon as we did. And yes yes yes, we were having an emotional affair. I denied it to myself for a long time. We would talk about every 6 months. The tension would be there so we just cut off communication until it felt like we needed to talk to each other. It was cowardly of me to stay in a relationship when I was in love with someone else. The relationship I was in ended very quickly because I found out about infidelity that was kept secret from me while i was deployed. About her threesome state of mind: she doesn't view threesomes as emotionally dangerous as one on one sex. And just for clarity, I have no idea what that statement really meant. I am just saying "I knew she would have a threesome". Call it intuition , prediction, what have you.

[Ronni_W]

Except, I am still hurt by the threesome. I feel really dumb

You feel hurt because your own lack of courage and honesty prevented you from having something that you might have had a chance at having if you had been courageous and honest as you knew and know you should have been in the first place???

 

You already know that it is definitely not cheating or "quasi-infidelity". So, you're actually asking yourself how to "get over" the fact that you let down YOURSELF because you refused to have, or lacked, the necessary courage (were a coward) and were not transparent, honest with someone with whom you should have been honest and transparent.

 

Have you already promised and assured yourself that you will no longer - not ever - stand against your own feelings, wants and desires in the future? Can you trust YOURSELF to not let-down/disappoint yourself like this, again?

Edited October 10, 2014 by Ronni_W
spelling

[kindascared]

Well, in regards to Mary, we are committed to each other. I didn't want to force her prematurely into a relationship and have her regret it. But yeah, You're right. I should have been more transparent and told her directly what I wanted. That was stupid of me. This would not have happened if I would have done that.

[Ronni_W]

I should have been more transparent and told her directly what I wanted. That was stupid of me.

It's perfectly fine to forgive yourself - "get over" - that you acted stupidly.

Just stop blaming it, or trying to blame it on her...as if SHE did something wrong or "stupid". It was and is all on you. Get over it...by acknowledging that YOU are the only one at fault and to blame.

[kindascared]

Here is the other problem, first I have to ask..you said you could TELL that she was going to go have a threesome, that it was her "state of mind". What does that even mean? Was she going "Man, I sure am in a threesome kind of mood today!" or something? I just don't get this. How does someone be around someone they are on "the horizon" to getting involved with, someone they have apparently been pining for..for a long time..and basically drop hints about how she is about to go screw two other people?

 

You also say she claims it was out of character, but you also say this isn't the first time she had a threesome so..you can see how we already have a contradiction, right?

 

So, its a mixed up story that I couldn't hope to compress. Lets our future relationship was VERY uncertain. Not from my point of view, I knew that this is what I wanted. But from her perspective, I left her for my wife 10 years ago(she was pregnant so I tried to do the "right thing") and she couldn't trust that that wouldn't happen again. She wasn't confident in me at the time. She was unsure of me up until I introduced her to my family, really. The trouble is the history runs 10 years and there is a lot of nuance that effects everything.

[kindascared]

It's perfectly fine to forgive yourself - "get over" - that you acted stupidly.

Just stop blaming it, or trying to blame it on her...as if SHE did something wrong or "stupid". It was and is all on you. Get over it...by acknowledging that YOU are the only one at fault and to blame.

 

Keep going. This is helping. You're right, she's not a mind reader. BUT, it bothers me when I think that I would not have done that to her, but I guess i didn't have her experience and I can't know what I would have done in the exact situation.

[Ronni_W]

BUT, it bothers me when I think that I would not have done that to her, but I guess i didn't have her experience and I can't know what I would have done in the exact situation.

You don't need me...you ALREADY know that that is just crazy-making thinking!

What YOU would have done is completely irrelevant to what anyone else might do, and even more irrelevant to what she did do. She was doing her own best to make herself feel good or happy or important or whatever...because YOU were too cowardly/dishonest/whatever to step-up and be there for her in the way that YOU actually wanted to be there for her.

[kindascared]

ok, you are the only person that has explained it in a way that i hadn't thought of. And you are right. I messed up. Thank you so much for this reply. I don't think i was being cowardly...but w/e. I can see how not doing what I wanted to do would make me cowardly, except that I wasn't doing it out of fear. Really, thank you so much. This was a perfect response and is the only unambiguous way I can resolve my internal conflict. I really cannot thank you enough for your words.

[Ronni_W]

Really, thank you so much.

My extreme pleasure.

 

If I may quibble...you WERE afraid that she would interpret it (your expression of what you really wanted) as you forcing her prematurely into a relationship and that she would resent you for that. You WERE afraid of the potential fall-out.

 

In any case, all's well that ends well. Wishing you much happiness always and in all ways.

[kindascared]

Heh, Quibble away. Ok, so as honestly as I can be here: since I left the Army and started to get really close to my children, and to take parenting as my number 1 priority I have tried to live by a few principles. And not just in the "I will try my best" way, but I really try to analyze my decisions on these principles and it is because I want my daughters to have a real role model. Not just a good dad that hides the bad stuff. I want to be a really good person for them. Even to the point of coming to a moral dilemma and saying "What would I tell Mackenzie to do?". So I try to hold to a principle of non-coercion. I really believe its important to not force you ideas or needs on others. Because "treat other as...". So, it might sound cheesy, and it was definitely a tangent but when I didn't openly communicate what I wanted form her, it was truly to allow her to form her own decisions without me influencing her in my favor. Honestly now, I can say that I just didn't look at the situation correctly. Communicating what I wanted is just that, and she could determine how to take it from there. This is a very well received life lesson. All happiness and love to you. Have a fantastic life and I hope that you continue to help others as you have helped me.

[petee]

Have you ever put your foot down at traffic lights or risked a speed camera when there's a workforce working on the road? Impetuous, madness or just plain daft, and if you get the ticket you get really annoyed? Logic versus rush or stupidity?

If you forgive the course analogy it's a bit like that, what she's done. But it is done, can't change that. So, where to next? You obviously have chemistry, she has regrets......so for what it's worth I say put it behind you. You weren't yet over the line and into a relationship.

Put it behind you, don't stew on it, engage fully in the relationship and don't look back. There's stuff in my wife's past I'd like to know about, but I don't need to know it, it's just curiosity.. It was in the past, I wasn't there, it's not really anything I can change and life is too short to keep finding things to analyse.

Go for it young man, live life.

[kindascared]

Thank you so much for your words of encouragement. After the great advice from ronni_W, I had a talk with my lady and it really came down to her just not believing that our relationship was going to pan out, and she was just living life, which is an explanation that I can understand and deal with. It's my fault for not inspiring the confidence in the relationship but it was so early on and things were so crazy, I can't really put the blame on either of is. I feel so much better about everything and I got some incredible advice and support from you guys/gals. I first talked about this on reddit's r/relationships subreddit and I got eaten alive. Just nothing but judgment judgement judgement all around. I am glad I came here.

[road]

Yeah absolutely. Its contradicting and I don't want to defend her, but the truth is she isn't here to defend herself, so I can't comment on her intent. I know her, and it is our of her character. She has had threesome with only Autumn. Like i said she was just being reckless. I don't think she had the intent to have a threesome, but i knew with a little alcohol and the chance, it would definitely happen.

 

 

 

 

Regardless of what she said you knew the hook up was going to take place and it did.

 

 

Her behavior is an indicator of why she does not have healthy stable relationships. Find your self respect. Then dump her. Then move forward.

[Spectre]

Yeah absolutely. Its contradicting and I don't want to defend her, but the truth is she isn't here to defend herself, so I can't comment on her intent. I know her, and it is our of her character. She has had threesome with only Autumn. Like i said she was just being reckless.

 

I don't think there is anything to defend really, maybe she only had a 3some with the Autumn person, but I meant that this wasn't the first time it happened. You also said she was otherwise going "wild" after her 8 yr. relationship ended. If this was a one time slip up that happened just on one night then the "it is not in character" thing would apply, but it seems like it wasn't and that it is now in her character to do these things.

 

I don't think she had the intent to have a threesome, but i knew with a little alcohol and the chance, it would definitely happen.

 

So why are you with this person man?! All this girl needs is a bit of booze and opportunity and she has 3somes.

 

Now, I can be judged very hard, and heavily on this, and I am not proud of myself, but, by all accounts, we should not have been pursuing a relationship as soon as we did.

 

You can be judged heavily for what? You didn't do anything. You should not have pursued a relationship this soon? Dude, if you were pining after each other for 10 years then why wait? Also, the thing is if it is too soon to get with the guy she has been pining for it should of been too soon for sleeping around and 3 somes and all that. The fact of the matter is you did not force her to do anything, this is just how she treats you.

 

And yes yes yes, we were having an emotional affair. I denied it to myself for a long time. We would talk about every 6 months. The tension would be there so we just cut off communication until it felt like we needed to talk to each other. It was cowardly of me to stay in a relationship when I was in love with someone else. The relationship I was in ended very quickly because I found out about infidelity that was kept secret from me while i was deployed.

 

Now you just say things that do not make even more sense. You ended your other relationship because of cheating, but you have no problem getting involved with a cheater and with a woman who has 3 somes even though she is "on the horizon" of dating a guy she has supposedly pined over for a long time?

 

It also wasn't just you being cowardly, this Mary girl was too. You both were cheaters and that is the thing..you emotionally cheat with each other..you get cheated on by your significant other..and this Mary girl more or less has a 3some even though you guys are on the verge of getting together...I just don't see why you are bothering with this woman? It is almost as if you want to get hurt.

 

About her threesome state of mind: she doesn't view threesomes as emotionally dangerous as one on one sex.

 

This just makes her sound naive and frankly a bit stupid. She had another guy inside her, I don't care if there was another woman there too..maybe it wasn't emotional for her, but for you? Yeah, this is another sign you should RUN away from this person.

 

And just for clarity, I have no idea what that statement really meant. I am just saying "I knew she would have a threesome". Call it intuition , prediction, what have you.

 

But okay man you still do not see the problem that she could literally be around you one moment and then within a few hours have another dude inside of her? You feel this woman honestly has any respect or love for you? I don't care if you weren't technically together, it just flat out would not of happened if she had any love for you at all.

[Spectre]

Have you ever put your foot down at traffic lights or risked a speed camera when there's a workforce working on the road? Impetuous, madness or just plain daft, and if you get the ticket you get really annoyed? Logic versus rush or stupidity?

If you forgive the course analogy it's a bit like that, what she's done.

 

No what she has done is not a bit like that at all but okay. Deciding to go through a speed camera or whatever is a split second choice, there isn't much going back. Having a 3some? Yeah, you kind of have plenty of chances to stop it before it gets to..full on 3some territory. So your problem is not your analogy being course, but overall just not making any sense.

 

Put it behind you, don't stew on it, engage fully in the relationship and don't look back. There's stuff in my wife's past I'd like to know about, but I don't need to know it, it's just curiosity.. It was in the past, I wasn't there, it's not really anything I can change and life is too short to keep finding things to analyse.

 

Go for it young man, live life.

 

Just..I sometimes can't even comprehend the advice people on here throw out. First of all, did you read the thread? This stuff is not "in the past". I mean yes, it happened, but it did not happen before he met her or anything. It happened when they were on the verge of getting together.

 

But you say "don't stew on it"? I just..I just don't get why you would give out such advice unless you want this guy to end up hurt. No, he should totally stew on this because when you ignore serious red flags like this you just end up getting even more hurt down the line. This is no "curiosity" this is..this girl literally left his side to go f*ck her friend and her friends husband. They weren't technically together? So what, it still shows she has neither respect nor love from him.

 

You can't change the past, but you CAN change who you spend your future with. You are right life is too short..which is why he should not waste time spending it with a woman like this. There is nothing that needs analyzing, her behavior speaks volumes.

Edited October 12, 2014 by Spectre

[Spectre]

Also reading the rest of the thread..now I have seen everything. Another person here has the OP saying HE is the one who messed up and this woman did nothing wrong. Just..*SMH*. Sometimes this board just depresses the hell out of me. OP, seeing you say you "messed up" makes me feel this is a lot cause. Good luck, I do hope this woman doesn't rip your heart out too badly.

Edited October 12, 2014 by Spectre

[petee]

I guess the two perfectionists above would prefer you to miss this opportunity in life. Really helpful and empathetic advice.

I agree with you, go for it and chose the advice carefully. All is not what it may seem with some posters.

[Ronni_W]

Also reading the rest of the thread..now I have seen everything. Another person here has the OP saying HE is the one who messed up and this woman did nothing wrong.

Your thought-belief that my perception, perspective and/or interpretation of kindascared's struggle would be any different if he had been born a woman, has no basis in fact, is fabricated/fantasy and is, in fact, inaccurate.

 

I would be useless, including to myself, if my own thoughts, feelings, perceptions and opinions were so fickle as to rely on, or be clouded/distorted by, anyone else's gender...or choices, or preferences, or proclivities.