Jump to content

It had nothing to do with you


katielee

Recommended Posts

I hate it when people/therapists say this. It sure as heck did.

Using this logic, why can't each spouse do what they want to ease their pain?

When is enough enough? You get to call "uncle" at some point in time, right?

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
evanescentworld

to whom is the comment directed? The AP, or the BS?

 

 

Fault has nothing to do with the betrayed spouse.

Responsibility for their role in the marriage, does. There is a distinction.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author

The BS, I guess. The WS's acting out had nothing to do with them. No fault.

 

The statement implies that the BS shouldn't feel as hurt or humiliated or whatever they feel because it is the WS's problem to own. But it does, ask any BS.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
I hate it when people/therapists say this. It sure as heck did.

I know what you mean. Also, "don't take it personally." <GRRR> Oh, my mistake...it must have happened to some other person. What WAS I thinking? <GRRR>

 

I *think* it's their clumsy way of saying, "Yes, it does impact you...but it does not reflect on you; it does not say anything about YOUR values, behaviour, attitude, principles, worthiness."

 

For sure, you get to decide if and when enough is enough. It's not admitting defeat or anything of that sort, but rather standing up for what you believe and know you deserve and want out of life.

 

Hugs.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree. It does have something to do with the BS also. Not only did both let the marriage get to the point where an affair was desirable in many cases, but it also involves the BS because the trust and commitment are now damaged.

 

Emotionally it is "easier" I think to face up and say, "Yes, this does have something to do with me and let me grab on and deal with it."

 

If it has nothing to do with the BS, then how can the BS "fix" it?

 

Just my thoughts. Not sure if they made sense.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author

 

If it has nothing to do with the BS, then how can the BS "fix" it?

 

.

 

that's just it. They can't. Because the fixing needs to be done by the WS, and by that I mean fixing themselves. however, the BS is now collateral damage and has to heal themselves from their hurt and learn to trust and ultimately forgive. Kind of a tall order. To imply that it had nothing to do with them is not honoring the work they're going to have to do to get past their pain.

And that's why that phrase pisses me off.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

If the marriage is to be reconciled, then the BS cannot put all of the blame for the broken marriage on the WS. Yes, the affair choice is only the fault of the WS, but the marriage work needs to be done by both if it is to succeed.

 

What led the marriage to the state of an affair? Did anything? What needs to be changed by both spouses to make this marriage work? Besides open communication by the WS, what changes can be made by the BS to make an affair seem undesirable?

 

Simply sitting back and saying that the WS needs to fix everything leaves the BS helplessly waiting for the WS to make everything right again while trying to deal with the emotional pain by him/herself.

  • Like 7
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author

I disagree JamesM. I had an affair. My marriage was not bad or broken. I was the broken one. My husband did nothing that made an affair seem desirable. That rested solely inside me.

  • Like 8
Link to post
Share on other sites
TrustedthenBusted
I disagree JamesM. I had an affair. My marriage was not bad or broken. I was the broken one. My husband did nothing that made an affair seem desirable. That rested solely inside me.

 

 

^^^This.

 

My wife, upon being busted initially blamed the whole thing on how unhappy she was. But the thing is... we weren't unhappy. We had a great and enviable life together. It took her a long time to admit that she was finding problems where there weren't any. And certainly there was NOTHING so wrong that an affair was appropriate.

 

Turns out she's done this her whole life. The problem had nothing to do with me, and was well established before I ever met her.

 

That said, I agree that all marriages need work, and there is always enough blame to go around when discussing issues.

 

And yeah, I heard the whole " it's nothing personal" before. And I responded by saying " Uh...risking the chance of giving me AIDS is pretty personal, no?"

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

H said this. He said it to absolve me of blame but also in the early days to simply shut me up I beleive. He couldn't bear to witness the pain he had caused so tried to distance me from his actions - he wasn't doing anything to me, he was just doing it for himself.

 

"How could you do this to me?"

"I didn't do this to YOU! It was nothing to do with you'

 

Which didn't help. In fact it made me mad because he was my husband and he seemed to be saying that there was a large bit of his life it was OK to exclude me from.

 

Regarding the BS's responsilbity for the state of the marriage, I have been allowed to take less and less of that since dday until I swear H will be handing me a halo soon ;) What he has discovered is the things he blamed me for in the early days, in the manner of a sulky child, are in fact his issues, largely caused by determinedly unresolved FOO crap and his inability to communicate in an adult fashion. My issues are mine to deal with and I am doing so as best I can - but the difference is now that we are supporting each other in doing so.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
I disagree JamesM. I had an affair. My marriage was not bad or broken. I was the broken one. My husband did nothing that made an affair seem desirable. That rested solely inside me.

 

I am very glad to hear you say that and take all of the blame for your affair.

 

From my experience and others who have discussed their marriage with me, I would respectfully disagree that your H did not have some bearing into the decision of your affair. My wife has said more than once that she could not have an affair simply because she knows how much it would hurt me. That alone has kept her from even considering it. And for me, the idea of sharing my personal thoughts and vulnerabilities with another woman instead of my wife would keep me from an affair.

 

Open communication and closeness in a friendship can keep many from taking that final "step" into an affair. Hurting your best friend can be an affair killer. It doesn't stop attraction to another, but it can keep the weakest from making the choice.

 

Is it at all possible that your marriage lacked the closeness and open communication it once had? Why would you choose another man over your husband if he was everything and your marriage was not to blame?

 

While it is very commendable that you "fix" yourself, the marriage can only be fixed if the two of you work together on it and make changes. And while your H certainly cannot be blamed for your choices, he can sit back and see how he can prevent any future desire for an affair. If there is nothing he can do because it is all you, then IMO if I were him, I would feel incredibly frustrated, depressed and helpless about the future of my marriage knowing that it is all about what you will do.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

People cheat in good solid relationships.

 

However, I will diverge from 99% of folks view here - and there was plenty I could do a BS to try fix "it" even through it had nothing to do with me or the relationship/marriage. Obviously establishing boundaries, rules, and consequences is one part a BS can take to affect changes. Also frankly the easiest and biggest fix it to kick the WS out on their rear end.

 

But yes I understand when it really is the WS issue, the fixing should be on themselves.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author

 

Is it at all possible that your marriage lacked the closeness and open communication it once had? Why would you choose another man over your husband if he was everything and your marriage was not to blame?

 

.

 

because I didn't even try. I should have told him I didn't feel close and that I wanted more from him. If I had, he would have done something. But I didn't even give him that chance.

 

Now, I've changed! And he's happy with the new me. I am also a BS and healing from that has been another mountain to climb. I just don't want to underestimate nor devalue the work the BS has to do.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
because I didn't even try. I should have told him I didn't feel close and that I wanted more from him. If I had, he would have done something. But I didn't even give him that chance.

 

Now, I've changed! And he's happy with the new me. I am also a BS and healing from that has been another mountain to climb. I just don't want to underestimate nor devalue the work the BS has to do.

 

Good.

 

Please don't be angry.

 

But as a husband, my concern would be: Will you tell me the next time you don't feel close? Will you be open with me and not with another? How can I feel confident that this "new me" will always be my wife? What is there to prevent you from making the same bad choice and not telling me?

 

I would personally feel as your husband that I didn't have a close enough relationship with you if you did not feel relaxed and safe enough to tell me that you lost our closeness. And I would want to know what I could do to prevent that loss and feel confident that you will do the same.

 

I don't mean to offend, but these are questions I would have if my wife chose an affair and wanted to reconcile.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author
Good.

 

Please don't be angry.

 

But as a husband, my concern would be: Will you tell me the next time you don't feel close? Will you be open with me and not with another? How can I feel confident that this "new me" will always be my wife? What is there to prevent you from making the same bad choice and not telling me?

 

I would personally feel as your husband that I didn't have a close enough relationship with you if you did not feel relaxed and safe enough to tell me that you lost our closeness. And I would want to know what I could do to prevent that loss and feel confident that you will do the same.

 

I don't mean to offend, but these are questions I would have if my wife chose an affair and wanted to reconcile.

 

Oh I tell him now. And it's been 4.5 years and I think he feels pretty safe that I will never keep my mouth shut about important stuff.

I wished he would have done this to me as well. But he didn't. And alas, he still does not. So, I have to figure out if I can live with that.

 

But back to healing as a BS - there's the marriage to heal and the self to heal. It just seems impossible at times.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Originally Posted by katielee View Post

I disagree JamesM. I had an affair. My marriage was not bad or broken. I was the broken one. My husband did nothing that made an affair seem desirable. That rested solely inside me

 

(((katielee)))

 

If only all WS could reach this "renaissance"in their life.

 

The whys, hows, wheres and whens have nothing to do with the BS.

 

However the outcome, fallout, pain, suffering and (a giant list of more) as a result of the above has everything to do with the BS.

Edited by atreides
  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
People cheat in good solid relationships.

 

Obviously establishing boundaries, rules, and consequences is one part a BS can take to affect changes.

 

Amen to that in bold... i have seen that the most.

 

As for the second part... I am not sure if you mean to prevent or post the affair?

 

i am big on mutual enforcement of boundaries and change of what we once were as singles to what we are willing to do to be with each other as a couple with my wife.

 

 

I would personally feel as your husband that I didn't have a close enough relationship with you if you did not feel relaxed and safe enough to tell me that you lost our closeness. And I would want to know what I could do to prevent that loss and feel confident that you will do the same.

 

This however then places some fault on the betrayed... it is implying that because a loss is felt an affair will take place or could lead to one.

However i argue and it is stated clearly by the OP, her marriage was not bad or broken... For many affairs, that i have seen and is why i constantly argue that infidelity in almost all cases is an addiction... is that a marriage will have great communication... but one day or moment an opportunity presents itself and the butterflies fill the situation, the sensation is extraordinary and new, it is fun and if guilt is felt (which i have seen, not in all cases) from that moment, history is re-written to help the future come to be.

 

In a moment of weakness, we can fall and succumb to the butterflies and as a poster above stated, "boundaries" but as perhaps more of a preemptive measure.

 

Things that i do as a loyal husband and my wife as well, is that we do not have girls/boys nights out that are of "higher risk" as in no alcohol, clubs, bars or any place similar on our own. No after work parties where we are not together... put it this way... if there is a party, we both go and if we cannot, we simply do not.

 

Granted, for what my wife did to me.. was in front of me.. so we also had to limit her drinking.

 

We all have the best intentions and work on our marriages and find ourselves as a bs or ws at a loss as to why even with all the communication and shared happiness... without boundaries and even at that is no guarantee, we just maybe the next ws.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

While not every bad marriage results in an affair and while every good marriage is guaranteed not to have an affair, many affairs are chosen as the result of something missing in the marriage.

 

Does that mean the BS is to blame? Could the BS perhaps have done something to have "prevented" the affair? Possibly.

 

But because the communication lines are usually weak or even broken when a person chooses an affair (whether the fault of both or one), then the reasons for the affair may never be known to the BS. OR in many cases, the WS has exhausted him or herself trying to communicate the desperateness of the problems in the marriage and then when the other person ignored, denied or simply lived on obliviously and another person seemed to be the answer, he or she chose an affair.

 

Yes, the affair has much to do with the BS as well as the WS in many ways and not just the aftermath. BUT the BS cannot take the blame in any way for the choice of the affair, because many many people live in bad marriages and never choose an affair. So, while bad marriages can be blamed on both, the affair choice can only be blamed on one. Yet a bad marriage may in many cases be the "trigger" that made an affair attractive.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
While not every bad marriage results in an affair and while every good marriage is guaranteed not to have an affair, many affairs are chosen as the result of something missing in the marriage.

 

I only disagree with the in bold... Sure the wayward uses and almost always exacerbates issues in the marriage (it helps with guilt) but were not the reasons even if the wayward would like them to be that lead them to have the affair. Addictions are nasty animals in of themselves and infidelity is no exception.

To say something is missing in a marriage, thus the possibility of an affair also implies that marriages have of some sort of "normality" that will never have anything missing, which to me is farcical. This in one way or another implies something to be perfect/normal, even at the judgement of subjectivity within marriage and thus would have to explain happy marriages as well which have infidelity... and it does not.

I argue, the "perfect marriage" does not exist in that anything can be said of the past to rationalize the present.

I have come to realize affairs are more about opportunities that exploit the weaknesses within ourselves at that right moments. It is up to us to use our greater attributes within to fight them off.

 

many people live in bad marriages and never choose an affair.... Yet a bad marriage may in many cases be the "trigger" that made an affair attractive.

 

This is very true but i would go further to say that and probably disagree with what you intended, in that it further illustrates, infidelity is not about marriage issues as they will always exist just as with any other problem in life and yet we do not look at an alcoholic for example and say, "yes, life must have been the trigger."

Edited by atreides
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
While not every bad marriage results in an affair and while every good marriage is guaranteed not to have an affair, many affairs are chosen as the result of something missing in the marriage.

 

Does that mean the BS is to blame? Could the BS perhaps have done something to have "prevented" the affair? Possibly.

 

But because the communication lines are usually weak or even broken when a person chooses an affair (whether the fault of both or one), then the reasons for the affair may never be known to the BS. OR in many cases, the WS has exhausted him or herself trying to communicate the desperateness of the problems in the marriage and then when the other person ignored, denied or simply lived on obliviously and another person seemed to be the answer, he or she chose an affair.

 

Yes, the affair has much to do with the BS as well as the WS in many ways and not just the aftermath. BUT the BS cannot take the blame in any way for the choice of the affair, because many many people live in bad marriages and never choose an affair. So, while bad marriages can be blamed on both, the affair choice can only be blamed on one. Yet a bad marriage may in many cases be the "trigger" that made an affair attractive.

JamesM - I can't find anything about your infidelity experience you've posted here on LS. Are you BS or WS?

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's over-generalizing to say that infidelity does or does not have something to with the BS. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. The list of reasons for infidelity is very long. The expression "once a cheater, always a cheater" really speaks to the fact that most cheating really is a personality and character defect as opposed to a situational mistake, but there exceptions to every simple truth.

 

I think this thread may also be confusing ideas: Cheating can be caused by the BS and did the cheating hurt or change the bs's life? Those are two completely separate things.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I really don't give a damn about my WW's reasons for cheating. I knew we had problems but was doing my best to improve our M. OTOH she was out screwing some other guy. Her reasons for doing that are all on her. I wasn't at fault, so any reason she comes up with is probably some fiction she conjured up. I really don't care.

 

My understanding of what happened is really limited in scope because her issues are on her to fix. As far as I'm concerned her "reasons" were:

1. OM was attractive.

2. OM was available - he made a move on her.

3. She thought she could get away with it.

 

Done.

 

I accept those reasons. I don't like them, but I accept them. They still piss me off, but I accept them. Once accepted I can move on with my own healing.

 

Fixing her issues are on her.

My healing is on me.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
The BS, I guess. The WS's acting out had nothing to do with them. No fault.

 

The statement implies that the BS shouldn't feel as hurt or humiliated or whatever they feel because it is the WS's problem to own. But it does, ask any BS.

 

Oh- I don't take it to mean that at all!!

 

And I say that frequently!

 

I mean that people cheat because of what is wrong with them, not their spouse.

 

The spouse becomes the injured party by the betrayal- but it was nothing the spouae did or did not do that caused it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I hate it when people/therapists say this. It sure as heck did.

Using this logic, why can't each spouse do what they want to ease their pain?

When is enough enough? You get to call "uncle" at some point in time, right?

 

The cheating didn't have anything to do with me. It showed me everything about my exH. He cheated. That was all on him. His actions showed me exactly who he was - a man of low moral character and no integrity. And I had evey right to have a response to his actions. And I acted with what was in MY best interest.

 

So when the therapist says that he/she may be correct.

 

But with every action there is an expected REACTION.

 

The BS that don't have any reaction is what always looks odd to me.

 

You can call "uncle" whenever you choose!!! That is your right as a human being!

 

 

The BS, I guess. The WS's acting out had nothing to do with them. No fault.

 

The statement implies that the BS shouldn't feel as hurt or humiliated or whatever they feel because it is the WS's problem to own. But it does, ask any BS.

 

Heck - YOu are ENTITLED to FEEL whatever YOU feel! What you DO with those feelings is always going to show what YOU are all about.

 

Are you mad? Then act mad! Are you hurt? Then act hurt! Are you done? Then act done!

 

Gaining clarity to understand how you might feel is key!

 

But that crappy behavior by the cheater? The cheater is responsible for their actions and should expect the BS to impose a penalty or ten penalties for that bad behavior... Including the option to get out of the relationship.

 

I am responsible for MY actions. I take full responsibility for me!

 

What OTHERS do or don't do = that's on them!

 

I am NOT responsible for others and what THEY say or what THEY do or don't do!

 

Knowing where I end and others begin is part and parcel to feeling happy about my healthy boundary.

 

 

 

When someone else makes it look ugly I always have the choice to end that relationship. And I have a right to speak my truth! "I don't like your behavior so I choose not to participate any longer" is an easy way to send a clear message!

Edited by beach
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...