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Over 6 months on ...how we look now


DasPope

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This is basically a update on how we have gone since DDay with putting "us" back together. The backstory can be found in my original thread here

 

Well I'm I'm here to tell you all there is life after discovering your spouses infidelity and that life can be as happy and complete as it was before but I think it depends on how you handle it within yourself rather then the actions or behaviors of your wayward spouse.

One of the things our individual and couples therapy has taught me is that how you treat your relationship is up to you regardless of the actions of your wayward spouse. You have a choice in how you respond and behave that is separate and (while influenced by) unrelated to your spouses response. You also have a choice about how much weight you allow yourself to give to the spouses behavior in the whole scheme of things. For us our basic relationship was quite sound ... happy even. I had to be careful not to allow my understandable anger and sadness not to pollute the remaining good part of our relationship (which was by far the majority of it). With time I think my wife has come to understand completely just how damaging her behavior was to "us" as a couple and why she actively chose that path without thinking of the ramifications. Although she once believed she did nothing specifically against me or us she now understands that the effects of her actions were major and knows what she risked.

We are doing better, fine perhaps, but as recently as yesterday we were reminded (by a little thing) of the trust that we lost and the long path ahead.

I advise anyone battling with infidelity to at least try and figure out if the way ahead might be better together then apart.

For us its been together but really only because we both had a almost stubborn refusal to take the easy path and allow it to drive us apart.

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Glad to hear that you are doing well. I remember your original thread, though I never posted, since you seemed to have things well in hand. Like you I think that most relationships can be saved, IF both parties are willing to put in the work to fix the problems.

 

I know that you feel that some folks were overly harsh on your situation, but statistically your situation is the exception and not the norm. Also your actions left you open to the possibility of further hurt. While I agree with you that it is worth the risk, you have to acknowledge that if the reconciliation had gone bad, you may feel differently. That is exactly what happened in my case, though I still would do the same thing, but it was a painful experience.

 

Some people are able to reconcile, while others are not in a situation like yours. I don't think that makes any of us innately good or bad, just different. To others in this situation, I think the key is to not just blindly forgive, but work on fixing the problems. If you read the original post (highly encouraged), this couple did a lot of constructive things. They immediately got into counseling, both individual and together. They also set boundaries and the WS was willing to give answers to questions. She also appeared to be forthright from the beginning. Few WS do this and the trickle truth is worse than the original sin. It perpetuates the affair in the BS mind and kills the trust that painfully gained.

 

To Daspope, thank you for returning for a favorable post, I wish we received more on here. Best wishes to you and your family.

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gettingstronger

I am happy for you and agree on most of what you said-

 

What we have found is that we are able to rebuild from the foundation we had-

 

Its so odd, I do not have trust issues per say with him- its more of just that feeling of "who and what" did you allow yourself to become-

 

We just returned from an amazing weekend in Vegas and although it was overall a great time, there were those little instances where things slipped in and brought us down-kind of like our relationship as a whole- mostly good with a sprinkle of "ouch"-

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Anyone can grit their teeth and keep their pants on for 6 months.

 

 

As I said in my first post on your other thread, she is benefiting from the support and resources she is getting from the marriage, but she was getting her fun and excitement from picking up random dudes in bars.

 

You were able to delude yourself by telling yourself it was just dudes from bars And wasn't an 'affair.'

 

What your not seeing here is her lifestyle of hooking up with random dudes is the affair. It's the lifestyle that is the draw for her and not a specific person. That kind of lifestyle is very hard to break unless something major changes in the primary relationship.

 

So my question for you is what has fundamentally changed in you, in her and in your marriage since this all came down? What true repercussions has she experienced since she got busted. What true nuts and bolts changes have you made in yourself? What changes have been made in your marriage so you aren't back to square-one in another 6 months.

 

The reason for my skepticism here is this was not a situation of a marriage that was fundamentally faithful for 10 years and then she got reeled in by some smooth, charming executive at the office. She's been hooking up with random dudes since you were engaged and all through your marriage.

 

This is part of her character and lifestyle. That doesn't go away without fundamental changes occurring in both parties as individuals and changes in the marriage it's self.

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The reason for my skepticism here is this was not a situation of a marriage that was fundamentally faithful for 10 years and then she got reeled in by some smooth, charming executive at the office. She's been hooking up with random dudes since you were engaged and all through your marriage.

 

This is part of her character and lifestyle. That doesn't go away without fundamental changes occurring in both parties as individuals and changes in the marriage it's self.

 

Which this question should probably be brought up, have you considered an open marriage where she can get her fun within certain parameters?

Edited by oldshirt
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You were able to delude yourself by telling yourself it was just dudes from bars And wasn't an 'affair.'

 

What your not seeing here is her lifestyle of hooking up with random dudes is the affair. It's the lifestyle that is the draw for her and not a specific person.

 

 

 

.

 

That statement may not have made a whole lot of sense so let me put it another way. Some people are attracted to and drawn towards another person. That person makes them feel special and validated and have the warm fuzzys and it fires up their hormones and their sex drive.

 

For some other people, including your wife, it's not a specific person they are drawn to and attracted to, it is the rush and the excitement and the hormone dump of picking up someone new and having a different body in bed that is the attraction.

 

That is a very hard habit for those people to break. Think about it, if someone has crush on another specific person, eventually the rush will wear off and they will start to see their warts and moles and blemishes and will start to smell their feet.

 

But for someone who picks up a new stranger in the bar all the time, the new bodies are always fresh and perfect and real life never gets in the way. It's like test driving a new car fresh off the lot every day, you never have to change the oil or change out a flat on the side of the road.

 

Your wife may not have had an affair with a specific person, her affair is with the rush and excitement of a new man in her bed all the time.

 

It's relatively easy to blow up an affair with a singular, specific person. It's a whole other reality to blow up an affair with the fun and excitement and rush of picking up new strangers all the time.

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Which this question should probably be brought up, have you considered an open marriage where she can get her fun within certain parameters?

 

Not for us as personally I'm not one for that type of thing but it was raised by the therapist as a aside during therapy and in fact it was my wife who shot it down before I could even open my mouth to do the same. So I don't think either one of us could even consider that possibility. Open Marriages are quite strange beasts to me. I can't imagine how they could possibly ever really work and they seems to me to just be a way of having one foot out the door all the time.

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Anyone can grit their teeth and keep their pants on for 6 months.

 

Well that she has managed to do and I've got the investigation bills to prove it. So unless she's been screwing my PI I'm pretty much 100% sure she hasn't strayed again.

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That statement may not have made a whole lot of sense so let me put it another way. Some people are attracted to and drawn towards another person. That person makes them feel special and validated and have the warm fuzzys and it fires up their hormones and their sex drive.

 

For some other people, including your wife, it's not a specific person they are drawn to and attracted to, it is the rush and the excitement and the hormone dump of picking up someone new and having a different body in bed that is the attraction.

 

That is a very hard habit for those people to break. Think about it, if someone has crush on another specific person, eventually the rush will wear off and they will start to see their warts and moles and blemishes and will start to smell their feet.

 

But for someone who picks up a new stranger in the bar all the time, the new bodies are always fresh and perfect and real life never gets in the way. It's like test driving a new car fresh off the lot every day, you never have to change the oil or change out a flat on the side of the road.

 

Your wife may not have had an affair with a specific person, her affair is with the rush and excitement of a new man in her bed all the time.

 

It's relatively easy to blow up an affair with a singular, specific person. It's a whole other reality to blow up an affair with the fun and excitement and rush of picking up new strangers all the time.

 

Yep... I'd suggest that was probably part of it but also what has come out over time is that really at the time she just didn't think it was such a big deal as it was. Her idea's and thinking wasn't geared towards considering her hook ups anything at all to do with us as a couple. To her it was just fun, nothing serious at all and nothing that hurt our marriage.

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So my question for you is what has fundamentally changed in you, in her and in your marriage since this all came down? .

 

Well that's easy... quite simply she grew up and understood that as her life has changed in so many ways since we were married that her lifestyle and outlook had to adapt. She also decided to take responsibility for allowing herself not to evolve.

In many ways it has been a very positive experience for us as a couple and for her in particular.

For me it has shown me that I'm responsible for my own reactions and actions and has tested my character to my own betterment.

I really had no barriers to simply leaving the marriage at all, we had a pre-nup in place that protected me very well and there were no children. Essentially I could easily have just thrown her out and filed for a fairly simple divorce as many people here seemed to think appropriate.

My wife was well aware of this and was devastated by the possibility of it.

But I knew that wasn't what was going to make me happy. Even at our worst just after DDay I knew no matter what the outcome that I was going to be happier with her then without her and she felt the same.

Revenge, retribution, repentance or repercussions just never came into it at all for me.

In many aspects of life I find it beneficial to first think of the type of outcome you want and then work purposefully towards that goal and for me that outcome was simply for us to be happy together again and allowing myself to lose myself to those negative feelings wasn't going to help us be happy again.

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Yep... I'd suggest that was probably part of it but also what has come out over time is that really at the time she just didn't think it was such a big deal as it was. Her idea's and thinking wasn't geared towards considering her hook ups anything at all to do with us as a couple. To her it was just fun, nothing serious at all and nothing that hurt our marriage.

Wow.

 

I can't help but wonder what types of actions your wife considers harmful to a relationship? What did she ask of you in counseling?

 

Mr. Lucky

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Yep... I'd suggest that was probably part of it but also what has come out over time is that really at the time she just didn't think it was such a big deal as it was. Her idea's and thinking wasn't geared towards considering her hook ups anything at all to do with us as a couple. To her it was just fun, nothing serious at all and nothing that hurt our marriage.

 

As a reconciled spouse, many years out, this is alarming on a fundamental level.

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Not for us as personally I'm not one for that type of thing but it was raised by the therapist as a aside during therapy and in fact it was my wife who shot it down before I could even open my mouth to do the same. So I don't think either one of us could even consider that possibility. Open Marriages are quite strange beasts to me. I can't imagine how they could possibly ever really work and they seems to me to just be a way of having one foot out the door all the time.

 

You can't imagine how an open marriage could work but yet you have accepted chronic, ongoing cheating with multiple, random strangers????????????????

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Her idea's and thinking wasn't geared towards considering her hook ups anything at all to do with us as a couple. To her it was just fun, nothing serious at all and nothing that hurt our marriage.

 

Your wife had the attitude that people with open marriages have. i.e. We have a strong marriage and are just having some meaningless fun on the side. It means nothing to our marriage. She was having an open marriage and didn’t tell you.

 

 

Open Marriages are quite strange beasts to me. It was raised by the therapist as an aside during therapy and in fact it was my wife who shot it down before I could even open my mouth to do the same. So I don't think either one of us could even consider that possibility.

 

Your wife not only considered the possibility, she was doing it. She shot it down because she didn’t want you doing it.

 

EDIT: I will correct myself. She wasn't doing it. Open marriages are better than what she was doing because open marriages are honest.

 

I really had no barriers to simply leaving the marriage at all, we had a pre-nup in place that protected me very well and there were no children. Essentially I could easily have just thrown her out and filed for a fairly simple divorce. My wife was well aware of this and was devastated by the possibility of it.

 

When she realized that there would be a price for her having a one sided open marriage she decided it wasn’t worth it. She didn’t want you doing what she was doing because you might find someone you liked better and could easily dispose of her.

Edited by Buckeye2
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Yep... I'd suggest that was probably part of it but also what has come out over time is that really at the time she just didn't think it was such a big deal as it was. Her idea's and thinking wasn't geared towards considering her hook ups anything at all to do with us as a coushe'll k To her it was just fun, nothing serious at all and nothing that hurt our marriage.

 

Is this also your attitude and belief system towards marital sexuality?

 

Like the other posters I find this the most troubling and worrisome of all.

 

As I have tried to say in earlier posts on both threads, this is her lifestyle and it is indicative of her core beliefs and attitudes regarding sexuality in general.

 

She is like a hippie flower child from the 60s living in a VW bus parked in a hippie commune and you are a middle aged, white-shirt conservative. Reconciling these two conflicting belief systems and moral compass settings is going to be the primary challenge.

 

As I said in my previous post, anyone can keep their pants on for 6 months when they know they are being watched and anyone can say the right words to a therapist.

 

Picking up random strangers in bars is part of her character, part of her lifestyle, part of her being. How long do you really think she'll go before some dudes twinkling blue eyes and rippling biceps catch her eye again? Shall we start an office pool?

 

Cheaters come in different breeds. There are people who belief in monogamy, had been faithfully married for ten or 15 years and get swept away by a specific person at the office and fall down. With counseling and communication and hard work, those people can come back into the fold and get back to their baseline of monogamy and faithfulness.

 

But this gal has always been a Susie-Screw-Around. Hooking up with random strangers is her thang, it's who and what she is. She can duct tape her knees together and get through the storm but all birds need to spread their wings and fly and all greyhounds need to run. She'll eventually need some strange.

 

If you were a free spirit and are the kind of husband that would be OK with some kind of open marriage or swinging and would be OK with her getting a little sump' n sump'n on the side now and then as long as you were getting yours, I'd be good with that.

 

But I get the feeling you are looking at this as a traditional, monogamous marriage and I just don't see her as the type. At best she does have some feelings for you but is just a horny free spirit that can never be caged in a traditional marriage and will need to get out for some strange now and then.

 

At worst she is a gold digger that wants the resources and security you provide but has no true love or desire for you and is using and manipulating you for money.

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I am going to oversimplify this but, bottom line, your wife was acting like a single woman once in a while when she went out with the girls and boffed a number of guys. She did it pretty much with a clear conscience because - well what you said back then was:

 

she told me it felt like something that was completely removed from our life together and unrelated.

 

You calmly told us time after time how sad you were and then how angry you were and then that you thought many of us on LS were angry BS's and you couldn't understand the vitriol we posted.

 

Now you post that everything is going well with your reconciliation. Great - I'm happy for you.

 

Now you are telling us how to reconcile as if everyone is like you. Saying it's a choice as far as how we feel about our WW and her cheating, how much weight we put into being betrayed, and other emotional reactions that many of us have to our particular situation of discovering our wife cheated on us. I hope you see that not all of us are capable of reacting this way. You are in a very small minority in so far as being able to happily reconcile in 6 months. It is simply not possible for most BH's to get to the point you are in such a short time.

 

You don't see the fact that your wife cheated on you to be a traumatic event. Like you said "You also have a choice about how much weight you allow yourself to give to the spouses behavior" . This may be true - for some - but it is simply bumper-sticker, pop psychology to many of us. The weight is heavy on us and we don't have a choice to lighten it somehow. Our response has been programmed by our life experiences and is related to our sense of right and wrong and our basic character. You are different then me and I cannot understand how you can possibly take the positions you take after only 6 months. I'll accept that you are being truthful and that this is how you feel and see the world of infidelity. But, again, your case is exceptional and is not a model for the vast majority of BH's. I hope you continue to do well with reconciliation and I hope your wife doesn't cheat on you again.

 

PS: I really like oldshirt's post just above this one. One difference is that I do think you are ok with her screwing other guys from time-to-time as long as she doesn't throw it in your face. You simply don't care enough to divorce her and are happy to minimize her dalliances - at least in your mind - as "girls will be girls".

Edited by drifter777
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She is like a hippie flower child from the 60s living in a VW bus parked in a hippie commune and you are a middle aged, white-shirt conservative. Picking up random strangers in bars is part of her character, part of her lifestyle, part of her being.

 

It’s like being a Christian and converting to Islam. You have always eaten bacon, enjoyed it, everyone else did and no one cared. Now it’s supposed to be very wrong. How much guilt could you manage to dredge up for eating bacon?

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Your wife had pude that people with open marriages have. i.e. We have a strong marriage and are just having some meaningless fun on the side. It means nothing to our marriage. She was having an open marriage and didn’t tell you.

 

 

 

 

Your wife not only considered the possibility, she was doing it. She shot it down because she didn’t want you doing it.

 

EDIT: I will correct myself. She wasn't doing it. Open marriages are better than what she was doing because open marriages are honest.

 

 

 

When she realized that there would be a price for her having a one sided open marriage she decided it wasn’t worth it. She didn’t want you doing what she was doing because you might find someone you liked better and could easily dispose of her.

 

Much truth above. She is the kind of woman playahs' love to come across in bars and the kind swingers make a special invitation to for their house parties (and I am a swinger myself, she'd be on my 'A-List') this isn't the kind of woman that marries a man 20 years her senior for love and then settles into a traditional, monogamous marriage for the next 40 years.

 

All I will add to this is it is easier to cheat than to have an open marriage. Cheating is the path of least resistance. Is easier to pull off and you get your cake and eat it too.

 

Open marriage requires work, it requires communication and mutual respect and compassion and above all else it requires lots and lots of rules and boundaries. And it requires a certain degree of oversight and monitoring of rules and boundaries.

 

The reason I mentioned open marriage is all the kings horses and all the kings men will not make her into a faithfully, monogamous wife.

 

However best case scenario is maybe with some work and effort and good communication and strong boundaries, she might be agreeable to limiting her playtime to certain agreed upon parameters and under his supervision and consent.

 

This is still a very high-risk venture because at the core of open marriage is honesty and staying within the rules and boundaries and she has already shown she can't be trusted to follow the simple rule of don't screw other men.

 

A couple in an open marriage may easily have multiple dozens of rules regarding sex with others. A traditional marriage only has one -DON'T. and she couldn't follow that.

 

It may be worth a shot to try that. Holding her to a monogamous standard is probably just setting everyone up to fail.

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I think I've been pretty clear that that open marriage concept is not something either of us is interested in. I have no concept of how such arrangements could ever really work as I'd imagine the theory on paper breaks down pretty quickly when faced with the reality of what it really means.

 

What we have done is reconciled to a happy faithful sexually monogamous marriage.

 

Right now I'm happy, she's happy and I'm optimistic about things staying that way.

 

Sometimes all it takes is a bit of maturity and perspective for the hippy child to grow up.

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Six months of bliss. Does not a lifetime of happy monogamy work. And your PI bills prove she has kept her pants on. Time will tell . Once you stop to PI you'll find out if she can still keep her pants on.

Your entire marriage she saw nothing wrong wit screwing guys she met in bars. And all of a sudden her whole value system changed.

I m sure you are fine with her going out with the girls too to the bars.

Like someone else said, glad you are happy. You have made the decision that in order to keep your younger wife you will accept her dalliances as just a girl having fun and no threat to your marriage.!

Come back in another six months. Hope your news is the same

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I think I've been pretty clear that that open marriage concept is not something either of us is interested in. I have no concept of how such arrangements could ever really work as I'd imagine the theory on paper breaks down pretty quickly when faced with the reality of what it really means.

 

What we have done is reconciled to a happy faithful sexually monogamous marriage.

 

Right now I'm happy, she's happy and I'm optimistic about things staying that way.

 

Sometimes all it takes is a bit of maturity and perspective for the hippy child to grow up.

 

 

No one has said that either one of you would actually be "interested" in open marriage or actually want to do it.

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Sometimes all it takes is a bit of maturity and perspective for the hippy child to grow up.

 

Time will tell.

 

She's young and pretty and has time. Do you?

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Maybe rather then a open marriage you want more of a "don't ask don't tell" kind of policy. You and I both know that the industry is full of older richer guys married to younger hotter gals and that as long as nobody rocks the boat things often go on forever with both parties happy.

I'm not saying I think she will cheat again because if she's smart she's going to know that she will have way too much to lose and very little to gain but over time guys like you do tend to slow down while the younger wife is just getting into their prime and that can lead to complications. There are a lot of 30 something girls married to older guys playing around in the bar scene on the westside I see it all the time.

Good luck with it ...its great to see both of you being so measured and sensible about it.

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Your entire marriage she saw nothing wrong wit screwing guys she met in bars. And all of a sudden her whole value system changed.

 

Sometimes it takes a crisis to find out what it is your really want ... that's what happened to us. And she's grown up from that lifestyle and way of thinking.

 

I m sure you are fine with her going out with the girls too to the bars.

She no longer does that if I'm not in town or without checking in with me if I'm away. She hasn't gone back to the previous pattern at all.

 

You have made the decision that in order to keep your younger wife you will accept her dalliances as just a girl having fun and no threat to your marriage.!

 

This is completely untrue as I've made no such decision at all in fact the opposite is true. As I clearly stated we have reconciled to a sexually monogamous marriage I wonder if you even read my post?

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Maybe rather then a open marriage you want more of a "don't ask don't tell" kind of policy. You and I both know that the industry is full of older richer guys married to younger hotter gals and that as long as nobody rocks the boat things often go on forever with both parties happy.

 

I really don't see how "don't ask don't tell" is much different from a open marriage except it would be I'd imagine even worse as you would always be wondering and never knowing.

 

The problem I have with all these non monogamous alternative marriages is I strongly suspect that the theory behind them would break down very quickly when faced with the reality of them. I can't see how despite the good intentions at the beginning they would ever really work. I don't think I've ever heard of a single instance where a so called open marriage worked well for a couple with both of them equally happy. It seems a poor compromise to me as if they just put it all in the too hard basket and gave up.

If anyone can explain how it would actually work in reality rather then just meaningless theory I'd be interested to know how. But even then I'd bet that if it was working at all it wasn't working equally well for both parties. There would always be one side not as happy as the other. It would probably create more conflict then it would solve and I fear it would drive most couples apart. I know it would never work for me personally I just couldn't be involved in anything like that.

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