After the 180 - how to handle the happy idiot?

[Striver]

An update on my situation:

 

WW had an EA and separated (not legally) so she can date OM. She has met with a lawyer and is gathering paperwork but has not filed yet. I needed her to file separately because of her refusal to do any work in exiting the EA or any MC with our three small children and stable to this point marriage.

 

We are doing in-home separation. We never did legal separation. I refused to move out since she's exiting. She's content to sleep on the couch. Maybe I should have done the legal, forced the separation. Probably too passive there.

 

We met today for child exchange. The children have not been told anything, though there are more questions on where mommy or daddy is. At the end of the exchange idiot WW says "Go (local sports team that is playing tonight)!" "We" are not cheering for the team any more because there is no "we" and "we" don't watch the games together or do anything together any more. "We" are not friends any more, WW.

 

WW exited depression and entered happy idiot phase after she told me we had absolutely no chance together. So now I get the occasional inane comment like today. I suppose if we were in NC or LC I'd have less chance of that, but we are still going to be doing child exchanges.

 

I have avoided any talk other than kids with WW for a while now. I have some serious anger/rage by this point, but none of that gets expressed to her. I assume I'll just get another serving of the same old justifications, defiance, deer-in-the-headlights response to any factual points I make, etc.

 

My question: Is it ever worthwhile to engage WW again? Even an angry email or something? Prior strategies and the 180 have done nothing to pop her bubble. Should I just take my anger elsewhere unless she shows some sign of change or recognition of our actual future?

[BetrayedH]

I'm about 3 years post Dday and 2 years post divorce. While my ex and I certainly don't live together, we still have two children (ages 8 and 12 now) and we have 50/50 custody where we exchange the kids halfway thru the week. It means a lot of interaction.

 

We both keep contact to a bare minimum. 99% of it is by email. Something more urgent might require a text. We rarely talk on the phone. And we only end up physically in each other's presence once a week. If I could possibly do it, I would never speak with my ex again. But, it's not possible.

 

I am always amiable in front of the children. There's oodles of data that suggests you should never disparage the other parent in front of the kids. We also wrote it into our marital settlement agreement.

 

We're pretty much all business when it comes to our interactions. But like you, my ex will drive me up a wall from time to time. More recently for me, I flipped out on her via text because she ignored my texts requesting to speak to the children on their birthdays. While I KNEW that typing it out was a waste of keystrokes on a person not worthy of them, my anger and rage simply had nowhere else to go.

 

I keep those incidents to a bare minimum but my advice to you...get used to it.

[Darren Steez]

Yeah, so you're not divorced. Not divorcing anytime soon. Your wife can date OM, live in the house and have her own life. Of course she's enjoying the "happy idiot phase" She's got her cake and eating it.

 

She's got a lawyer, do you? Why aren't you filing for divorce? You've been told no chance for R, she's "dating" the other guy, why not file?

[dichotomy]

Should I just take my anger elsewhere unless she shows some sign of change or recognition of our actual future?

 

I don't understand this last part?What do you want from her at this point - realistically?

 

Yes take your anger elsewhere - either to the gym and or your own therapist.

[still_an_Angel]

My stbxH drives me up the wall at times. We have not gone to the Family Court for custody/visitation but are trying to do this in the most amicable way possible. We agreed that he has the kids on the weekends, overnight if possible. We have issues about these exchanges, along with everything else related to child-rearing and I would love to throttle him at times but have to remain friendly when we see each other as kids pick up on any ripples in the water so to speak.

 

 

Yes, we "fight and/or argue" via phone, text and emails but never in front of the kids. I find these times draining and so not worth my energy but I need to get my point across to the block of stone. So I just pick the issues that I fight for, the important ones. No point in engaging over the little issues that just causes more drama.

[chelsea2011]

Maybe try not referring to her as an idiot would be a good place to start. 180 is meant to be used for taking care of you and not as a trick to manipulate someone. Maybe that is why there is no chance for reconciliation for you. You're playing games. That would be a deal breaker for many.

[No Limit]

Yeah, so you're not divorced. Not divorcing anytime soon. Your wife can date OM, live in the house and have her own life. Of course she's enjoying the "happy idiot phase" She's got her cake and eating it.

 

She's got a lawyer, do you? Why aren't you filing for divorce? You've been told no chance for R, she's "dating" the other guy, why not file?

 

A thousand times this.

[loveboid]

Yes, take your anger elsewhere. She says there's no chance. So your anger is useless in getting what you want from her.

 

My ex husband took his anger out on me. Did no good. He demanded I get nothing to our divorce lawyer...which didn't work. He drove me in the car violently fast and wouldn't let me out when I yelled it...which didn't make me stay in the marriage. And finally he wrote me I'm guessing a drunken angry email, which I barely skimmed and immediately deleted. All in all, anger is useless.

 

If ya wanted to do something, before the D day and throughout the marriage would have been more useful.

 

Before, women had no place to go. No job prospects and no family support. These tactics probably worked then. Not today.

[Striver]

I don't understand this last part?What do you want from her at this point - realistically?

 

Yes take your anger elsewhere - either to the gym and or your own therapist.

 

It's been three months. Realistically I don't expect anything. Emotionally, if she by some miracle wanted to reconcile, I suppose I would try. Emotionally I'm not ready to give that up. That will take more time.

 

Friendly comments about a life we once shared just re-opens an old wound. I don't want to talk about sports with her, anything we shared. She is an affairy idiot and doesn't get that.

 

She is making nice about other things, money and the kids, and I will take what I can get. We didn't fight as a couple and I see no reason to pick fights now.

 

When the damage to the relationship is one sided, when one of the partners becomes an affairy idiot, it's so frustrating to me or anyone else involved in a similar situation. We never get closure, we never get to talk to the partner again the way we once did, with honesty. We need to take it to other friends or therapy. I'm doing both. I asked if there was any way to have some sort of communication this far down the road, when I know there probably isn't. Too big a risk of bringing more pain down on myself.

[Striver]

Yes, take your anger elsewhere. She says there's no chance. So your anger is useless in getting what you want from her.

 

My ex husband took his anger out on me. Did no good. He demanded I get nothing to our divorce lawyer...which didn't work. He drove me in the car violently fast and wouldn't let me out when I yelled it...which didn't make me stay in the marriage. And finally he wrote me I'm guessing a drunken angry email, which I barely skimmed and immediately deleted. All in all, anger is useless.

 

If ya wanted to do something, before the D day and throughout the marriage would have been more useful.

 

Before, women had no place to go. No job prospects and no family support. These tactics probably worked then. Not today.

 

Your situation is different from mine.

 

WW is very assertive, articulate when assertive, dominant, bossy by her own description. I'm accomodating, passive. Maybe too much so.

 

In our last conversation about the relationship WW said she wanted more "bantering." Also specifically said that she wanted someone who stood up to her more. Talked to my brother about this, he said that she probably does want that, but she still wants to win all of the arguments. So I don't know how much fun that would have been for me.

 

Specific example. One of our children had to switch schools mid-year and there was a tuition issue. WW is too tight with her parents and it was an issue in our marriage. I should have confronted that issue, but didn't. WW said her parents offered to pay the tuition. We could have afforded to do it ourselves. I wasn't too happy about it, figured we should try to solve our own problems, but kept the peace for the sake of the family. That was likely a mistake. In this particular marriage, I was too nice, and WW did not respect me enough because of it.

 

I need to be able to channel anger appropriately in relationships, not just be nice and keep it all bottled up. I'm realizing that I could have been just as unhappy, could have gone where WW is going, but maybe if I wasn't quite as nice WW wouldn't have been so tempted to abuse the privilege. Don't know what else to say about that. I'll work on my assertiveness, and if I have another marriage, maybe I'll find someone more on my wavelength in that area.

[Striver]

Yeah, so you're not divorced. Not divorcing anytime soon. Your wife can date OM, live in the house and have her own life. Of course she's enjoying the "happy idiot phase" She's got her cake and eating it.

 

She's got a lawyer, do you? Why aren't you filing for divorce? You've been told no chance for R, she's "dating" the other guy, why not file?

 

I had a lawyer I liked, but she couldn't take my case. I'm interviewing a couple others this week and will decide on one shortly.

 

Someone has to be the adult, to think of the kids. Usually people with small children make some effort to make the marriage work before quitting. WW has made no effort to work on the marriage, admits as such, and is leaving anyway.

 

WW is a bossy, dominant person. Nothing I could do was ever going to change her mind. All I could do was have the pleasure of filing. She doesn't want to work on the marriage, she wants to make things harder for me and the kids, she can go file.

[Mr. Lucky]

We met today for child exchange. The children have not been told anything, though there are more questions on where mommy or daddy is. At the end of the exchange idiot WW says "Go (local sports team that is playing tonight)!" "We" are not cheering for the team any more because there is no "we" and "we" don't watch the games together or do anything together any more. "We" are not friends any more, WW.

I think you have to pick your battles more carefully. If the above is the type of thing that's going to upset you, you ain't seen nothin' yet.

 

You'll need a thicker skin to survive this process...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Striver]

I think you have to pick your battles more carefully. If the above is the type of thing that's going to upset you, you ain't seen nothin' yet.

 

You'll need a thicker skin to survive this process...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Eh, some of us need to be MORE in touch with our emotions and anger. I've more than earned every bit of anger I feel at WW and then some.

[Mr. Lucky]

Eh, some of us need to be MORE in touch with our emotions and anger. I've more than earned every bit of anger I feel at WW and then some.

To what benefit?

 

Unique to divorce with children is the need for a functioning relationship with the partner. Girlfriends, friends, even parents and siblings, given the right provocation and history, can be crossed off your list. But with kids, you'll have regular contact with her for the next two decades and, with family events like marriage/grandkids, even beyond. All while moving on with the rest of your life, a tricky balance.

 

In my own experience, anger is the enemy while rationality, caution, reserve and prioritizing your children's benefit are your friends. Take that emotion and leave in in the heavy bag, yoga mat or beat-up running shoe. YMMV...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Striver]

To what benefit?

 

Unique to divorce with children is the need for a functioning relationship with the partner. Girlfriends, friends, even parents and siblings, given the right provocation and history, can be crossed off your list. But with kids, you'll have regular contact with her for the next two decades and, with family events like marriage/grandkids, even beyond. All while moving on with the rest of your life, a tricky balance.

 

In my own experience, anger is the enemy while rationality, caution, reserve and prioritizing your children's benefit are your friends. Take that emotion and leave in in the heavy bag, yoga mat or beat-up running shoe. YMMV...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

As far as the actual functional management of the kids, I have no plans or incentive to make that particularly difficult. She has the skills to handle that for the most part. There were not big issues between us there.

 

I do not respect her as a person. She lost respect for me in some way for some reason, and now the feeling is mutual, more so on my end likely. I don't respect her EA, I don't respect her not fighting for the marriage at all.

 

She's still in affairyland, so that won't change in the short term. Suppose at some point in the future I have found a new partner and things are going well. At that point WW comes to me and apologizes for her conduct in ending the marriage and offers to listen if there's anything I want to say. At that point I could forgive her directly and she could regain some lost respect. If she never does that, I still would work towards forgiving her in time, but she would not regain any respect. But I won't let that impact the kids. As long as she keeps things about the kids, we will be reasonably OK, and I will vent elsewhere.

 

I'm a quiet guy, and I really need to express myself and vent right now so I don't wind up in a personal fortress of solitude. That's me. I vent to any and all about the POS WW is acting like. This forum is one of the places.

 

I already feel better about what happened yesterday. So this helped!

[bigfool]

Best of luck to you. Just remember if things hadn't happened like they did you wouldn't have your kids. Not that I can be of much help since my own life is crashing down around me. Keep the faith.

[No Limit]

Suppose at some point in the future I have found a new partner and things are going well. At that point WW comes to me and apologizes for her conduct in ending the marriage and offers to listen if there's anything I want to say. At that point I could forgive her directly and she could regain some lost respect.

 

No. Goodness no.

 

If she comes back AFTER you started a new relationship, you shut the door into her face. Else you'll fall for the oldest trick in dating history; even people who just broke up do that "trick" often enough and all it does is break your relationship with a good person while the old one has her laughs and ego boost.

 

The moment you are out of the door and find new love, she's out for good. Detach yourself.

[Striver]

No. Goodness no.

 

If she comes back AFTER you started a new relationship, you shut the door into her face. Else you'll fall for the oldest trick in dating history; even people who just broke up do that "trick" often enough and all it does is break your relationship with a good person while the old one has her laughs and ego boost.

 

The moment you are out of the door and find new love, she's out for good. Detach yourself.

 

That's wise, thank you.

 

Some have suggested treating the divorced partner as if they have died. Not literally wishing death on them, but the spouse they were to you is dead.

 

Widowed people don't get closure either if the death is unexpected. So many of us are in the same boat at some point or another.

[Popsicle]

What is the 180?

 

After reading this thread, you definitely have every right to be angry. If it were me, I'd tell her how much I hate her (but not in front of the kids).

 

You also need to file, like now.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Popsicle

[DKT3]

What is the 180?

 

After reading this thread, you definitely have every right to be angry. If it were me, I'd tell her how much I hate her (but not in front of the kids).

 

You also need to file, like now.

 

180 is for the BS to gain some emotional distance from the WS and focus on their well being, healing and moving foward without them.

 

OP you have to limit your contact with your WW, right now she sees you as weak and an option that is there on her command. She hasn't filed because she is keeping you around for a backup.

 

Stop telling her how you feel, stop showing her any emotions at all. Go to robo mode when forced to deal with her. You may have to fake it and fight for awhile but its the shortest way to the other side. You have to start looking at it as the marriage is 100% dead. File for divorce, focus on your kids making the transition and healing yourself. Get super busy and again limit contact to dealing only with the kids and divorce.

[bathtub-row]

And we only end up physically in each other's presence once a week. If I could possibly do it, I would never speak with my ex again. But, it's not possible.

 

In case anyone is interested, it is possible to avoid seeing your ex once a week or every-other-week. It works best if you and your ex live in the same school district. It can work if the parent who isn't in the school district has the ability to pick up and drop off their child at school.

 

We set up custody so that whenever our son was with his dad, I drove him to school (he could've also taken the bus from my house) and in the afternoon, he took the bus to his dad's house. So, for example, his dad had extended weekends so my son would go to school on Thursday morning from my house and take the bus to his dad's house on Thursday when school was over. On Monday morning, he took the bus from his dad's house to school, then back to my house when school was out on Monday.

 

When it wasn't his dad's weekend with him, we kept it consistent so that our son knew that on Thursdays he took the bus to his dad's. On those days, he would just return to my house Friday after school.

 

The reason I suggested setting things up this way was because it gave my ex more time with his son; more complete days and evenings instead of breaking up his time with him on weekends. Plus, if I went out of town or something, I didn't have to worry about being back home by a certain time on Sunday. The main reason for this, though, was that my ex loves to manipulate people with time. He's constantly late and constantly saying things like, "I'm stuck over here at ---, do you want to meet me halfway at ---?" I knew that if he was supposed to return our son to me at 6pm on a Sunday, it would sometimes be 6:30, 7:00, 9:00, etc. and that would've completely driven me mad. So, I took that factor out of the equation.

 

It was a great arrangement and I didn't have to deal with my ex very often. Our son did that until he started driving and then he drove wherever he needed to be. When he was 16, he rebelled and stopped going to his dad's on the regularly scheduled days because he was sick of his dad's controlling ways. At that point, it didn't matter anyway.

 

I recommend this to anyone dealing with shared custody. It worked extremely well and took a lot of frustration out of my life by having to deal with my nutty ex.

[2sunny]

Sure, tell her what you think of her (actions).

 

Don't express feelings.

 

Stick with your evidence.

 

 

Simple is best - maybe "you're an idiot" is appropriate...?

 

Possibly "there's no respect for you"...? Or "you've become a jerk"...?

 

Get it out. Onto her since it's her behavior that invokes the feelings.

 

Staying silent isn't wise. Be direct and honest. She earned it so deliver it.

 

 

 

And leaving it for her to file? She's got no reason to file. She will take advantage of you as long as YOU ALLOW IT! Stop allowing it - file yourself, even if it's just dropping off the papers to the court to get it started, ask anyone to serve her.

Edited September 1, 2014 by 2sunny

[Appreciate]

It's hard to understand the psychology of how someone could be keeping someone else up as a back up plan if they don't have respect for the person.

 

But yet, there it is.

 

All this **** about women's distaste for their H's not standing up for themselves is largely bogus. It's a result of the EA. She's not ****-testing the A partner like she is her husband, who was probably not expecting the changes. She probably went from being in general good humor to becoming an outrageous bossy biyatch whom if you had spoken your mind then you would've been considered controlling or reactive. She's emotional, you're calm and rational, and she doesn't know how to think that way.

 

If I were you, I would just put her in her place without using derogatory terms. Just look at her firmly and say "there is no WE anymore." Let her chew on that.

[Man Mountain Makino]

We met today for child exchange. The children have not been told anything, though there are more questions on where mommy or daddy is. At the end of the exchange idiot WW says "Go (local sports team that is playing tonight)!" "We" are not cheering for the team any more because there is no "we" and "we" don't watch the games together or do anything together any more. "We" are not friends any more, WW.

She didn't say "we." What are you talking about?

[JS84]

If she ever does try to come back make sure you don't make the same mistake I see so many male BS make and instaforgive her without making her work back into the marriage.