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Details vs Intentions


gettingstronger

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gettingstronger

We have discussed numerous times if the BS needs all the details or not-

 

I think for me, it has come down that what my husbands intentions were, that is what I am driving at-the details help me understand that, so to me they are important-

 

He and I go around and around on this- he thinks I am asking for details just for the sake of details- I try to explain, as they say, "the devil is in the details"

 

So for you all that seek details- is it to try to understand their mind set and intentions or is it just for the sake of details?

 

FTR- he has been pretty open to giving me answers to details, its just my need even all these months (18) later to ask clarifying questions that seems to freak him out-

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He may not understand your need to put all the pieces of the puzzle together, but he needs to respect it for part of your healing.

 

You can inform him that it's a very common need. Your mind is trying to make sense of the senseless. We are predisposed to wanting to know the truth.. it's impossible to process reality with faulty information.

 

Given that, there may be things you really don't want to know and which could hinder your recovery. Some people want every detail disclosed.. they feel they just have to know in order to feel safe about their decision to stay. Completely understandable. But you may discover something that changes whether you want to stay in the relationship. It could be something so hurtful to you that you can't let it go.

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I think rather there were different reasons for asking for details during various moments of the recovery process (approx. 3 months, but did include revisiting previous details after 8 months)

 

In no specific order I remember feeling/thinking:

 

I asked for details in order to know the full extent of what I was dealing with.

 

I wanted details to know how much commitment to him she was giving

 

I asked in order to know how often she visited him for sexual purposes

 

I asked for details to know how the whole thing got started, how they got to their first kiss, and how they got into the sex.

 

I asked for details to see if she was prepared to meet her promise not to lie anymore.

 

I asked for specific details about conversations she had with him about me, about what they were thinking they were doing, and what limits or end they saw for this A.

 

These last kinds of questions were met with some of the most vague answers. The details of the first kiss, which I think is a significant event, (not sure who said that "it's a longer journey to the first kiss than it is from that kiss to the bed.") was a lie she held onto for over 8 months. So she had no problem talking about the sexual meetings, and even giving me unsolicited information about that, but she did not want me to know when the first kiss occurred. And the reason was simple: They kissed in his office at his request that she come down to see him. She wanted me to belive that this was the beginning of the PA, but in fact, she had invited him up to her office the week before that, and this she kept from me EVEN knowing that hiding the truth from me would be more fateful in terms of recovery if I later discovered the truth.

She merely wanted me to believe that he was the "more aggressive" in starting the PA. It took her 8 months to finally tell me the truth, and only because I argued that something didn't make sense to me about how she suggested it started.

Edited by fellini
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badkarma2013

AS some of you may rembember my sitituation ...the OM came to my office and showed me pics of him and my EXW engaged in sex acts that she NEVER did with me and said they were disgusting...for 22 years...But there she was doing them with him...

 

His act was in retaliation to my outing him to his wife...

 

I believe ..Even with all the agony it caused at that moment..i would not change a thing... because ALL OF MY QUESTIONS WERE ANSWERED AT THAT MOMENT....there was nothing left to ask or say...

 

and at that second I knew there would be no Forgiveness...no Reconcilition...No more Marriage..

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He may not understand your need to put all the pieces of the puzzle together, but he needs to respect it for part of your healing.

 

You can inform him that it's a very common need. Your mind is trying to make sense of the senseless. We are predisposed to wanting to know the truth.. it's impossible to process reality with faulty information.

 

I agree with this ^^^.

 

You thought you knew your husband. You thought he was incapable of this. You were obviously wrong - terribly wrong about the most basic of fundamentals in the relationship. It's a huge blow to the ego to be fooled and betrayed by the one person who you thought had your back. It's a real shock to the system and creates a lot of self-doubt about your own judgment and ability to discern the truth.

 

The mind then goes crazy trying to process how we could have been so wrong. It desperately seeks out new facts to come up with a new and more accurate view of reality. And because we were susceptible to lies, we become hypervigilant in trying to detect them.

 

The biggest challenge is just trying to get a new and accurate picture of the truth so we can eventually reach that last stage of grief - acceptance. You can't accept it until you know what it is. Of course, there are exceptions in how people handle these things (notably, the first stage of grief is denial).

 

Here's a copy and paste of "Joseph's letter" which may summarize it better than I. Joseph was a BS on a now-defunct infidelity forum. This post (a letter to his wayward wife) has resonated with many.

 

"I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly.

 

No one wants to be forced to 'look' at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn’t mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn’t he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I’m going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.

 

You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge.

 

You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you’re carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the 'STUFF' to figure out OUR reality. There isn’t really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don’t have.

 

Now let’s enter my reality. Let’s both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is well affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down.

 

To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever 'feel' complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are.

 

When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don’t worry about it, it’s not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don’t worry about it, it’s not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what’s the difference, it’s not important.

 

Then later when I’m expected to understand the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it.

 

You wonder why I can’t just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.

 

So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don’t you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart.

 

I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.

 

So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together.

 

It doesn’t come from jealousy, it doesn’t come from spitefulness, and it doesn’t come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn’t it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn’t it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can’t and the reason I can’t is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world."

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gettingstronger

I think I am closest to Fellini in my desire for details-for me, its what the details mean-

 

who made the first move

how long from initial contact to actually "hooking up"

she would travel at her own expense to see him on business trips when he would go long periods without having a trip to her town-it was important to me to know whose idea that was, what was considered a long period of time, if he re-arranged his schedule to suit hers, did she rent a car, take a shuttle or did he go to the airport to get her, etc...

 

Sadly, some of the mundane details above are more hurtful than what others would consider larger details-

 

Thanks for the feedback- its appreciated!

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This from BetrayedH is spot-on.

 

You thought you knew your husband. You thought he was incapable of this. You were obviously wrong - terribly wrong about the most basic of fundamentals in the relationship. It's a huge blow to the ego to be fooled and betrayed by the one person who you thought had your back. It's a real shock to the system and creates a lot of self-doubt about your own judgment and ability to discern the truth.

 

A WS not only hurts you beyond measure, they cause you to doubt everything about yourself, and they will never understand how they have pyschologically wounded you.

 

As for details, IMO, they don't matter. If the WS can lie about one thing they can lie about another, so how can you ever know, in the future, if they are being truthful or not?

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