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Still sucks 2 years out


tough love

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We just recently had our 2 year d-day anniversary and 20 year wedding anniversary. For the most part, we are doing better but there are still days where it sucks bad even though the ONS occurred before we were married, 23 years ago and early in our relationship. I still feel she doesn't understand the magnitude of the lies, which IMO, is worse than the ONS.

 

We had a counseling session, and our counselor said it sounds like I have more of an issue about the men (prior to me), the guy she had the ONS with and another she claims starting kissing her while she had passed out. I have an issue with being lied to about these issues. For 21 years, when I thought she had been honest with me, I didn't have any problems with the guys from her past. I knew she wasn't a virgin and she knew I wasn't. She lied about a guy that pursued her up until the point we got engaged. I believe she didn't cheat with him as he was not in the same state as us. My real issue is that she intentionally withheld info from me that had I known, I may have likely known what she was capable of and her patterns. She asked me the same questions about my past relationships, which I disclosed honestly.

 

How do I discuss the issue of her lying to me and how that affected me without her and the counselor insisting that it is about the guys she was with?!?!? I feel like I am beating my head against a wall!

 

I don't know that I am looking for actual advice. Maybe I just need to vent.

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We just recently had our 2 year d-day anniversary and 20 year wedding anniversary. For the most part, we are doing better but there are still days where it sucks bad even though the ONS occurred before we were married, 23 years ago and early in our relationship. I still feel she doesn't understand the magnitude of the lies, which IMO, is worse than the ONS.

 

We had a counseling session, and our counselor said it sounds like I have more of an issue about the men (prior to me), the guy she had the ONS with and another she claims starting kissing her while she had passed out. I have an issue with being lied to about these issues. For 21 years, when I thought she had been honest with me, I didn't have any problems with the guys from her past. I knew she wasn't a virgin and she knew I wasn't. She lied about a guy that pursued her up until the point we got engaged. I believe she didn't cheat with him as he was not in the same state as us. My real issue is that she intentionally withheld info from me that had I known, I may have likely known what she was capable of and her patterns. She asked me the same questions about my past relationships, which I disclosed honestly.

 

How do I discuss the issue of her lying to me and how that affected me without her and the counselor insisting that it is about the guys she was with?!?!? I feel like I am beating my head against a wall!

 

I don't know that I am looking for actual advice. Maybe I just need to vent.

 

So I have a question. It's been two years. Is your wife making you happy right now and are you making her happy? Lying is their defense mechanism to either limit the damage or limit your hurt or perhaps both. Maybe you should sit her down and tell her that's how you feel. And open up to her and ask her to be honest and give her a path to forgiveness if that's what you'd like to do. If you make her feel comforted in letting her know she can tell you the truth you may be able to get it. If there are threats of divorce "I will divorce you if I found out X", "We are done if X happened" then you will never find your answers unless you find alternate means. It's an automatic defense most of them have to limit possible damages or an ending they don't want to face.

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I haven't read all of your backstory but brush up on it a little to get a little bit of a feSo for what's been going on.

 

I think a lot depends on what kind of wife, mother and person she's been for the last 20 years. Is she generally a fairly manipulative, dishonest and self-serving person? Does she take the last cookie or the last piece of cake and say the kids ate it? Does she fudge a little on her taxes? Does she say she's been stuck at the vet's for 3 hours with the dog but the dogs shots really only took 20 minutes and the rest of the time she was really shopping for shoes and getting a mani/pedi and racking up hundreds of dollars at the mall and not telling you about it?????

 

...or she she a good, honest, decent person???

 

You've been with her for 20 years, is she a bit of a sneak that likes to push the boundaries and get away with it? Does she like to have her cake and eat it to and not pay for it????

 

It's as simple as that. If she's the type of person that likes to step outside the lines a little bit and get away Scott-free as part of her core character then you have some just cause to be leery. It's probably just a matter of time before she does something else a little shady and rug-sweeps it.

 

On the other hand if she's been nothing but honest and honorable for 20 years then you can chalk this up to a dumb 19 year old that had a few drinks and had some grab-ass with some dude in college and when the smoke cleared she figured it was just a fluke and tried to carry on and let bygones be bygones.

 

We all have baggage and skeletons and have some dumb stuff we've done in the pass.

 

If she has 20 years of solid and honorable behavior, this is YOUR hang up and you need to work to get over it and get passed it. If you need to vent it all out to a therapist to get this out of your system then so be it.

 

But you don't have the right to judge her and treat her like a lying, cheating who're if she isn't one.

 

19 year olds do stupid crap. That's why we pay billions of dollars as a society to lock them away at college.

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I haven't read all of your backstory but brush up on it a little to get a little bit of a feSo for what's been going on.

 

I think a lot depends on what kind of wife, mother and person she's been for the last 20 years. Is she generally a fairly manipulative, dishonest and self-serving person? Does she take the last cookie or the last piece of cake and say the kids ate it? Does she fudge a little on her taxes? Does she say she's been stuck at the vet's for 3 hours with the dog but the dogs shots really only took 20 minutes and the rest of the time she was really shopping for shoes and getting a mani/pedi and racking up hundreds of dollars at the mall and not telling you about it?????

 

...or she she a good, honest, decent person???

 

You've been with her for 20 years, is she a bit of a sneak that likes to push the boundaries and get away with it? Does she like to have her cake and eat it to and not pay for it????

 

It's as simple as that. If she's the type of person that likes to step outside the lines a little bit and get away Scott-free as part of her core character then you have some just cause to be leery. It's probably just a matter of time before she does something else a little shady and rug-sweeps it.

 

On the other hand if she's been nothing but honest and honorable for 20 years then you can chalk this up to a dumb 19 year old that had a few drinks and had some grab-ass with some dude in college and when the smoke cleared she figured it was just a fluke and tried to carry on and let bygones be bygones.

 

We all have baggage and skeletons and have some dumb stuff we've done in the pass.

 

If she has 20 years of solid and honorable behavior, this is YOUR hang up and you need to work to get over it and get passed it. If you need to vent it all out to a therapist to get this out of your system then so be it.

 

But you don't have the right to judge her and treat her like a lying, cheating who're if she isn't one.

 

19 year olds do stupid crap. That's why we pay billions of dollars as a society to lock them away at college.

 

It is my issue to get past and I get that. But I also think she has to accept responsibility for her choices and how her deceit affected me. I don't consider her a whore. I did make it clear back then and troughout our engagement and marriage that I would rather know than the truth than be played. Even after she was sleep talking, I begged for the truth and said I would work to get past it. She continued to lie and only confessed when she knew I was on to her lies. I was ready to leave her because I don't want to be with someone who is lying to me. I deserve better than that.

 

I was never the jealous type prior to this. I bought her flowers for no special occasion just because I love her, worked two jobs so she could stay home and have the job raising the kids and taking care of the house (which I know isn't easy, and we both wanted her to raise our kids). I suggested getting pizza, take out, going out or eating left overs, so she didn't have to cook. All things I wanted to do to show her I care. I still care.

 

I don't think I judge her and I don't think of her as a lying whore. The reality though, is that she did lie about things that she knew were extremely important to me, she knew honesty was important to me, she cheated when she was 19 but maintained the lies for 21 years after that when she was a mature adult. And she stupid or not at 19, she knew what she was doing was wrong and it would hurt me, yet it didn't stop her. Her age and the fact that it happened 20+ years ago doesn't minimize any of it or the impact it had on me and the possibility that my life (and hers) could be different now (maybe better, maybe worse and maybe together or maybe living separate lives).

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having a partner who cheats and lies makes it difficult to know who you married and what their beliefs and practices are.

 

So dDay was 2 years ago, but the ONC affair/cheating was at the very beginning of the marriage long time ago. Delayed dDay, rough because its like it really happened 2 years ago instead of 19. It is in your head.

 

I get it - I also got my wife's past, and her cheating mixed up and worked hard to focus on them separately.

 

As others have sad if she has been a good respectful wife since then? Sex life okay? then that's what you need to focus on. You have kids you love ? that too.

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So I have a question. It's been two years. Is your wife making you happy right now and are you making her happy? Lying is their defense mechanism to either limit the damage or limit your hurt or perhaps both. Maybe you should sit her down and tell her that's how you feel. And open up to her and ask her to be honest and give her a path to forgiveness if that's what you'd like to do. If you make her feel comforted in letting her know she can tell you the truth you may be able to get it. If there are threats of divorce "I will divorce you if I found out X", "We are done if X happened" then you will never find your answers unless you find alternate means. It's an automatic defense most of them have to limit possible damages or an ending they don't want to face.

 

My wife has made me happy since the day we got together, until I found out she had lied to me about these things and made up other stuff. She still makes me happy other than the days I have triggers or the days I get stuck thinking about how she was able to do all these things, over & over, knowing how much it would hurt me. I don't know if I make her happy. I would venture to say right now, I don't and haven't made her very happy since d-day.

 

I never threatened divorce if she told me the truth was up front with me. My anger and hurt stems from the lies and the trickle truth. I begged for the truth on the first d-day and said I needed the truth in order for us to work through it. She swore I knew everything, I forgave her and then realized the stories weren't adding up. Then I find out that she hadn't been honest about the ONS and she wasn't taken advantage of or raped as she made it sound initially and that there was another incident she had kept to me. There was more trickle truthing and more lies were eventually disclosed.

 

She has done some stuff to try and show she has told me the truth but also done some stuff that tells me she still hasn't disclosed the entire truth about the ONS. I am not even sure I know the entire truth about her past. I would be fine with that if she hadn't asked me about my past. We could have agreed to keep our pasts to ourselves, but the moment she decided to lie but hold me to a different standard, then I think she was being deceitful.

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having a partner who cheats and lies makes it difficult to know who you married and what their beliefs and practices are.

 

So dDay was 2 years ago, but the ONC affair/cheating was at the very beginning of the marriage long time ago. Delayed dDay, rough because its like it really happened 2 years ago instead of 19. It is in your head.

 

I get it - I also got my wife's past, and her cheating mixed up and worked hard to focus on them separately.

 

As others have sad if she has been a good respectful wife since then? Sex life okay? then that's what you need to focus on. You have kids you love ? that too.

 

Thanks. Actually, the ONS was early in our dating and we were engaged about 8-9 months after the ONS.

 

You nailed it.... I feel like she made me believe she was one type of person with similar beliefs and practices as me when that wasn't the case. I have asked her to tell me one thing she told me back then that was the truth because I want to find something that she was honest about then, when I was deciding if I wanted to propose to her. The delayed d-day is rough and it feels like it just happened.

 

I think had she told me right after the ONS occurred, I would have forgiven her and tried to work it out. I don't think I would have been okay with her continuing to party (which she never stopped until I transferred to the same school) and I wouldn't have been okay with her rooming with her roommate (or this roommate being at our wedding) when this roomie helped cover up the cheating and repeatedly tried to get my wife to dump me so they could hook up with guys at parties.

 

There was an incident where her roomie let something slip about 6 months before we got married that made me suspicious but my wife made up a story that I fell for. I have said that I had found out the truth then, I would have either called off or delayed the wedding because she had lied to me about it. The ONS was a mistake, the lies were intentionally meant to trick me and show more malice IMO.

 

I agree that I have a hard time separating her past from the ONS. Her past shows a pattern and that was reflective in her choice to cheat. Had it not been for the ONS and the other incident of making out with a guy, her past still wouldn't be an issue. I had heard rumors about her past, but considered the source of the rumors and truly believed my wife wouldn't lie to me. Now I know the rumors were true. I still asked her out and got serious with her when I had no idea whether the rumors were true or not. It didn't matter to me what she had done in her past, only that she be honest with me.

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I understand you very well. Hope you can work this all out. It does matter what she was to you throughout the marriage then at beginning, but I do understand the concerns. You deserved honesty, fidelity, and someone who shared you beliefs on all this at the time, but what is she now?

 

I am unable to fully resolve my (kind of similar) issues with the cheating and past due to on going troubles in the marriage, mainly the slow decline into a low sex(quantity and quality) marriage but other things as well. Pain in a marriage can trigger unrelated or un linked issues.

 

Focus on what you have. Has the marriage been good ?

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I understand you very well. Hope you can work this all out. It does matter what she was to you throughout the marriage then at beginning, but I do understand the concerns. You deserved honesty, fidelity, and someone who shared you beliefs on all this at the time, but what is she now?

 

I am unable to fully resolve my (kind of similar) issues with the cheating and past due to on going troubles in the marriage, mainly the slow decline into a low sex(quantity and quality) marriage but other things as well. Pain in a marriage can trigger unrelated or un linked issues.

 

Focus on what you have. Has the marriage been good ?

 

Thanks again. I hope things work out for you too.

 

For us, the marriage was good & I used to say we had the perfect, fairy tale wedding. This is one of the reasons I have decided to work at it, because otherwise, being lied to and played for a fool for that long would be a deal breaker for me. She doesn't deserve to have me cheat and lie and I don't deserve it either.

 

We had the declining sex life too, although she denies it now. She even spoke to her doctor about it and told the doctor I would have to deal with it (laughing) if it meant she would need hormone meds. I never mentioned it then, but it spoke volumes to me that she laughed it off as something I "just had to deal with". I dealt with it, but it became one more thing, after finding out the truth about the ONS & lies.

 

I will read up on your situation. Sorry you are going through this too. I know it sucks!

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revelations

H tough love I am sorry to hear what is happening to you.

 

This is an issue that most people will not understand why you are upset and the reason is because it happened long ago before you were married. So right now by you account you have a good wife and such, however your still feeling upset because of the lying and trickle truth that has been done. Your probably feeling like your being unreasonable. Maybe your wife and friends are telling you that it happened long ago so forget about it?

 

Okay the truth is that your wife has maintained a lie to you for the last 18yrs or so going by the timeline you posted. The first question that comes up is would you have still married her at the time if you had known? I don't know what the answer is for you, however chances are if you had said "No" then your feeling cheated out of a life you could have had with a faithful woman. Next is the lie for 18yrs or so, let's face it if she has lied to you for that long your probably wondering if you can trust your judgement of her. So in my book I would say that you have every right to be upset and then some. Your wife is lucky that your willing to stay with her, me I would have walked out on her.

 

Their is something that is very disturbing to me that you posted

We had the declining sex life too, although she denies it now. She even spoke to her doctor about it and told the doctor I would have to deal with it (laughing) if it meant she would need hormone meds. I never mentioned it then, but it spoke volumes to me that she laughed it off as something I "just had to deal with". I dealt with it, but it became one more thing, after finding out the truth about the ONS & lies.

This here tells me that she has no real respect for you. She acts as if when her actions hurt you that it is your problem and you alone need to deal with it. She takes no responsibility for her actions. To me this is one of the most disturbing aspects to still be happening so long after her ONS. This tells me that to this day she will lie and dismiss to get and keep what she wants. The sad part is that your just now seeing this after being married to her for so long.

 

Like I have already hinted at, myself I would have walked out the day I found out that I had been lied to that long. You are choosing to stay, and remember that word that YOU are CHOOSING. I have had a few ex's cheat on me and the funny thing is they always said to me "But I chose you". I always retorted with "Funny thing is that before you cheated I WANTED you. Now you are a choice to me and I CHOOSE not to be with you". Myself I would make that very clear to the wife that she is now a choice and not a want. That she will have to change her attitude towards you and life in general to become that "WANT" again. She also needs to take responsibility for her actions. So I would suggest the IC and MC for both, however mainly the IC for your wife. I don't know if your wife works or not, however she should be getting work if she does not already have a job. The reason I say this is because she should be paying 100% of the MC and IC sessions that happen. She is the one that created this mess in your marriage and she should do the heavy lifting to clean it up.

 

I am sorry if my post seems a bit rude or if I seem to come down hard on your wife. The truth is that your wife did an awful thing to you. She did not just cheat and have a ONS, she lied to you about it before you were married and for a long time after. Myself I would be stashing and securing my money and planning my escape to retire in another country and leave her. I understand how for some this may not be a good option. However it seems to me that your wife needs to grow up a bit and learn that her actions affects others. She needs to learn what the word "Empathy" is and how to practice it. For me, women like your wife is exactly the reason I avoid women to this day. When I see women doing this I tend to avoid them as if they had the plague. I do hope things work out for you my friend. Just know that "Yes" you should be upset and you have the right to be upset. Don't let anyone tell you different, that means wife, doctor, counselor, friend or on here.

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H tough love I am sorry to hear what is happening to you.

 

This is an issue that most people will not understand why you are upset and the reason is because it happened long ago before you were married. So right now by you account you have a good wife and such, however your still feeling upset because of the lying and trickle truth that has been done. Your probably feeling like your being unreasonable. Maybe your wife and friends are telling you that it happened long ago so forget about it?

 

Okay the truth is that your wife has maintained a lie to you for the last 18yrs or so going by the timeline you posted. The first question that comes up is would you have still married her at the time if you had known? I don't know what the answer is for you, however chances are if you had said "No" then your feeling cheated out of a life you could have had with a faithful woman. Next is the lie for 18yrs or so, let's face it if she has lied to you for that long your probably wondering if you can trust your judgement of her. So in my book I would say that you have every right to be upset and then some. Your wife is lucky that your willing to stay with her, me I would have walked out on her.

 

To clarify timeline, we have been together 23 years, she cheated several months into dating, after we agreed to be exclusive. I found out 2 years ago, 21 years after the fact. I had suspicions when we were dating but she fed me a story and like a fool I bought it. About 6 months before, her roomie said something else that I questioned and again I was a fool. Had I found out 6 months before our wedding, I think I would have delayed and possibly called off the wedding. So yes, I feel like I may have been cheated out of a life with someone who may have been faithful and respected me. Maybe I would have ended up with someone else who cheated on my. As I keep hearing from her and the counselor, we can't go back. I do get the "it was so long ago and she was faithful

After that and we were happily married". Bit the reality is she maintained the lie, along with other lies and made up stories.

 

She has taken a lie detector test that she failed and then a voice activated test that she passed and she did call her roomie with me listening in. She did not ask her roomie a major question I had and claims it was because her roomie said she didn't remember the night she cheated. I believe that she didn't ask her the question because she didn't want me to know the answer. In essence, I think she still hasn't come clean about that night. She claims she doesn't remember all the details because it was so long ago and the alcohol. Maybe she doesn't remember but she claims to remember that they used protection and that she told him she couldn't go through with it while they were in the act of having sex. She made him stop and he left angry. She also says he didn't cum but how would she know that for sure if he had a condom on. About that time, I got a. Letter from her saying she wanted to go pill so we wouldn't have to use comdoms anymore. When I ask if she went on the pill because she slipped up and had unprotected sex that night and maybe she was worried about another hook up, I am made out to be irrational and a jerk for still talking about it. I just want the truth. That's all I ever wanted. I never wanted to be in a relationship full of secrets and lies, whether lies of omission or blatant lies. The fact that e lies were about her past and our past from long ago doesn't change that they were lies that were continued long after she was an immature teen.

 

Leaving isn't so easy for me with kids. I built a life with her trying to set us up for early retirement. Our family will be torn apart and my dreams shattered. Maybe my dreams are still shattered but my family is still intact and I can still have have early retirement and be able to help my kids financially.

 

I am self employed so she works for me part time about 10-12 hours per week during my slow time and full time about 3 to 4 months per year depending on weather and how busy I am. It works out well for the kids' sakes.

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Although I can try and understand your hurt and anger it troubles me that the pain is still so vibrant after 2 years. My thought is a simpleone, swallow your pride and forgive your wife.

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I will give you an advice that is very hard to implement..

 

Just drop it.

 

Not because you aren't right. You have all the legitimation in the world to feel the way you feel. But you are going in a route full of misery.

 

If you can drop it - Do it. You will be so proud if you did.

Sometimes, in order to get the perfect justice, we might ruin the things we do have. You could have decided to leave after D-day. You decided to stay? so take responsibility for your decision and focus on the future.

 

she cheated when she was a different person. it's 20 years!!! people change.

leave it. your wife loves you and loyal to you for more then 20 years. Many men would envy you for what you've got.

 

Look at the bright side of your life. life is too short to waist them with trying to have 100% justice and sterility.

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compulsivedancer

I don't really get it. I understand that she hurt you, but people in college do really dumb things and then hide them out of fear. Once you lie about something for a while, it becomes impossible to tell the truth about it, for exactly the reason you're upset.

 

It's really unlikely that there is or ever has been any malice or I'll intent here. She was scared, she made some incredibly idiotic decisions on the fly while drunk, then lied about them. Then couldn't come clean about them because she was scared to lose you. She didn't actively deceive you by having an ongoing relationship with someone else, and she hasn't done anything with anyone else since you've been married.

 

I totally get being upset, hurt, betrayed, etc. What I don't get is holding onto it for two years and thinking your entire marriage is a fraud because of it.

 

Did she lie to you about lots of things for twenty years? No? Then as much as it hurts, it's time to move on. It may seem new to you, but to her it's ridiculously far in the past.

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I don't really get it. I understand that she hurt you, but people in college do really dumb things and then hide them out of fear. Once you lie about something for a while, it becomes impossible to tell the truth about it, for exactly the reason you're upset.

 

It's really unlikely that there is or ever has been any malice or I'll intent here. She was scared, she made some incredibly idiotic decisions on the fly while drunk, then lied about them. Then couldn't come clean about them because she was scared to lose you. She didn't actively deceive you by having an ongoing relationship with someone else, and she hasn't done anything with anyone else since you've been married.

 

I totally get being upset, hurt, betrayed, etc. What I don't get is holding onto it for two years and thinking your entire marriage is a fraud because of it.

 

Did she lie to you about lots of things for twenty years? No? Then as much as it hurts, it's time to move on. It may seem new to you, but to her it's ridiculously far in the past.

CD I really like you, but your comments here sound very wayward like. Its equal to saying "it happened, get over it"

 

No matter the intent or time infidelity hurts, but to lie about it for so long bring into question the entire relationship. If she (or any WS) could do that, then what grounds does a BS have to go on that it didn't happen over and over throughout the relationship? For a lack of a better way of putting it, we are dealing with liars.

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I don't really get it. I understand that she hurt you, but people in college do really dumb things and then hide them out of fear. Once you lie about something for a while, it becomes impossible to tell the truth about it, for exactly the reason you're upset.

 

It's really unlikely that there is or ever has been any malice or I'll intent here. She was scared, she made some incredibly idiotic decisions on the fly while drunk, then lied about them. Then couldn't come clean about them because she was scared to lose you. She didn't actively deceive you by having an ongoing relationship with someone else, and she hasn't done anything with anyone else since you've been married.

 

I totally get being upset, hurt, betrayed, etc. What I don't get is holding onto it for two years and thinking your entire marriage is a fraud because of it.

 

Did she lie to you about lots of things for twenty years? No? Then as much as it hurts, it's time to move on. It may seem new to you, but to her it's ridiculously far in the past.

 

She did lie to me about what I consider to be a lot of things for 20 years and the same things repeatedly for 20 years. I beg to differ that there was no malice or ill intent. She lied to get me to stay with her. She thought I would make a different life choice for me and used deceit to alter and control my choice. That seems pretty malicious to me and does mean I married her under false pretenses. I don't know if that makes our entire marriage a fraud, but a the foundation of it was built on plies and deceit.

 

She didn't deceive me in the sense of continuing to cheat but she did deceive me in when it came to being heat. She betrayed my trust when it came to sharing stuff I had asked her not to share with others. By itself' not a big deal, but putting the entire picture together, I have realized that there is a pattern where she really didn't give a damn what I though, wanted or how her

Lies and choices affected me.

 

I am trying to drop it but still wonder what if. And I have swallowed my pride. It isn't easy admitting how naive and gullible I was. I am ashamed of myself for letting myself be played for a fool and I am ashamed of her for thinking so little of what we had and me that she could hook up with a total stranger for a ONS, because to me it shows she really didn't care about me. Had she hooked up with someone she knew or an ex, I could at least rationalize that she knew the person and had a connection.

 

Had she taken responsibility right away when confronted two years ago, I would have dealt with it better and told her I just wanted the truth. She strung me along and continued to deceive me f r nearly two more months and then trickle truthed for I don't know how much longer. She minimized, blamed her age, the other guy, said I didn't say all the time that I would rather know the truth (how many times did I have to say this for her to care?), she wouldn't care if I had cheated, stressed that her IC she saw after d-day said it wasn't cheating because it was before we were engaged and that she wasn't soused to tell me details or call it cheating anymore, etc..... It took months for her to fully take responsibility.

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LuckyLady13

Tough Love, I understand where you're coming from because my parents separated for 6 months nearly 20 years ago and just last year out of the blue my dad asked me if my mother cheated on him during that time. My answer? Not that I know of.

 

I know that had to be a hard answer to hear because I'm sure he wanted to hear me flat out say no and that's not what happened and there's doubt in his mind. I will say the reason I had to answer him this way is because I'm 99% sure she did but I didn't catch her and she never admitted it so I couldn't say yes, she did.

 

It's been so many years and I didn't think to ask him where this question came from suddenly. I wished I could have gave him a positive yes or no.

 

But I know my father and if I said yes, she did? He'd divorce her so fast she wouldn't have known what hit her! My father doesn't forgive and he's caught my mother lying to him so many times about other stupid little things that he knows she's not trustworthy. But a dealbreaker for him would be cheating. 20 years ago or yesterday, it wouldn't make a difference to him.

 

It may have been a long time ago but I'm sure he remembers like it was yesterday that he had custody of us kids at the time, worked, raised us alone and she was out partying and hanging out with another guy! And for even me I remember it like it was yesterday too seeing him being a responsible guy and watching her run around like a single drunk teenager doing whatever she wanted without a care in the world who was getting hurt. I was so sure I was seeing her with her new boyfriend (she called him a friend) who she left for weekends with so I felt like I was watching my mother betray my father and yes, I can see it in my head like it just happened. My mother will claim up and down to this day how it was so unfair that they got married young and she didn't get to have sex with other guys and was "stuck" with my father. She acts as if he had a gun to her head and made her get married and stay with him all these years. No responsibility at all!

 

However, after saying this, I agree with Revelations that you chose to stay in the marriage so it's time for you to do whatever you can to move forward now. I think posting this here on LS and hearing what other people have to say is going to be very helpful for you to work all this stuff out in your head that's been stuck in a loop for two years. Maybe we can help you break it loose.

 

I do think there's another possible reason your wife didn't tell you sooner. Besides not wanting to lose you, she may have not wanted to hurt you with her stupidity. If she cares about you a lot, she wouldn't want you to have to suffer because of something she did.

 

Her mistake should not be your burden. I totally understand that and I get what some people are saying and how it just doesn't sound right. Why should the betrayed spouse put in so much work trying to drop it and forget about it and move forward when it wasn't their fault this happened in the first place?

 

But what about you, though? How have the last 2 years treated you? Are you happy? You don't sound like it and for your own sake, do what you can to start moving forward. This wasn't your fault and no, you shouldn't have to deal with this but I'm talking self-love here and caring about you. You know in the core of your being it would be such a huge relief if you could let this go FOR YOU.

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I have learned that some of her comments that set me off the most are...

 

1. "It's in the past and we can't go back so we need to put it behind us." I agree that we need to put it behind us, but this is like salt I the wound for me. It's true, I can't go back and get those years back and build a life and have a family with someone else because of the choices she made. Even if I leave, I now have baggage as will most anyone else I would meet now.

 

2. "The sex with him didn't mean anything". Then why was she willing to risk what we had and what does it say about what our relationship and intimate moments meant to her. Had I know a small part of her wished she could date other guys in college, she would have gotten her wish.

 

3. "It happened 20 years ago, she was only 19, didn't do anything else and she put it behind her. And She chose me." It's nice she got to put it behind her and got to make an informed choice. Too bad I wasn't worthy of the same. IMO, this also says to me that she doesn't acknowledge lying for all those years, lying about other stuff and she insists she didn't cheat when she made out with another guy because it was only a few seconds. She also knew right from wrong, even at 19.

 

4. "We are all sinners and deserve to be forgiven." This is just a cop-out IMO to excuse what's he did. As if it's okay to intentionally do things that you know will hurt someone because hey, we all sin.

 

Sorry I am ranting. Better on here than to her.

 

Rationally, I know I need to be thankful for what I have. I know I need to drop it, not so much for her sake but for the sake of my kids and myself. I deserve better and my kids deserve better. I realize that those of you who say I need to let it go are right. But damn, it sucks knowing someone you trusted and thought wouldn't lie or hurt you actually, intentionally did many thing that she knew would hurt me and possibly change the course of my life and has lied to me about this and many other things for essentially the first 21 years we spent together.

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Tough Love, I understand where you're coming from because my parents separated for 6 months nearly 20 years ago and just last year out of the blue my dad asked me if my mother cheated on him during that time. My answer? Not that I know of.

 

I know that had to be a hard answer to hear because I'm sure he wanted to hear me flat out say no and that's not what happened and there's doubt in his mind. I will say the reason I had to answer him this way is because I'm 99% sure she did but I didn't catch her and she never admitted it so I couldn't say yes, she did.

 

It's been so many years and I didn't think to ask him where this question came from suddenly. I wished I could have gave him a positive yes or no.

 

But I know my father and if I said yes, she did? He'd divorce her so fast she wouldn't have known what hit her! My father doesn't forgive and he's caught my mother lying to him so many times about other stupid little things that he knows she's not trustworthy. But a dealbreaker for him would be cheating. 20 years ago or yesterday, it wouldn't make a difference to him.

 

It may have been a long time ago but I'm sure he remembers like it was yesterday that he had custody of us kids at the time, worked, raised us alone and she was out partying and hanging out with another guy! And for even me I remember it like it was yesterday too seeing him being a responsible guy and watching her run around like a single drunk teenager doing whatever she wanted without a care in the world who was getting hurt. I was so sure I was seeing her with her new boyfriend (she called him a friend) who she left for weekends with so I felt like I was watching my mother betray my father and yes, I can see it in my head like it just happened. My mother will claim up and down to this day how it was so unfair that they got married young and she didn't get to have sex with other guys and was "stuck" with my father. She acts as if he had a gun to her head and made her get married and stay with him all these years. No responsibility at all!

 

However, after saying this, I agree with Revelations that you chose to stay in the marriage so it's time for you to do whatever you can to move forward now. I think posting this here on LS and hearing what other people have to say is going to be very helpful for you to work all this stuff out in your head that's been stuck in a loop for two years. Maybe we can help you break it loose.

 

I do think there's another possible reason your wife didn't tell you sooner. Besides not wanting to lose you, she may have not wanted to hurt you with her stupidity. If she cares about you a lot, she wouldn't want you to have to suffer because of something she did.

 

Her mistake should not be your burden. I totally understand that and I get what some people are saying and how it just doesn't sound right. Why should the betrayed spouse put in so much work trying to drop it and forget about it and move forward when it wasn't their fault this happened in the first place?

 

But what about you, though? How have the last 2 years treated you? Are you happy? You don't sound like it and for your own sake, do what you can to start moving forward. This wasn't your fault and no, you shouldn't have to deal with this but I'm talking self-love here and caring about you. You know in the core of your being it would be such a huge relief if you could let this go FOR YOU.

 

LuckyLady, I am truly sorry for what you went through. I really appreciate your post, as well as everyone else's (whether I agree or not). Your post really hit me.

 

I am not happy. I don't think leaving will make me happy. I thought we had a perfect marriage and trusted her with my life and considered her my rock. Not anymore.

 

She has also lied about stupid stuff that really didn't matter. I really believe she will lie to me in a heart beat. I never gave her a reason to lie before this and this is one of the reasons I am so upset. She had exes, siblings of exes and flings that she had been intimate with as friends on social media. One of these was the brother of an ex friend with benefits who tried to come between us until we got engaged. She denied ever having been partners with any of these people. I could care less about her being friends with past guys I knew she dated and this wasn't an issue with me because she was honest. She expected me to be honest and tell her about my past partners. It just feels like I can't trust her to be honest because, while she cheated when she was 19, she lied recently and was even deleting internet history as recently as 8 months ago.

 

I know we all mess up and make mistakes. I don't expect or demand perfect, but I do expect honesty and respecting my wishes if I ask you, as my spouse, not to disclose my medical issues to family unless I decide I want them t know.

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LuckyLady13

Okay, I'm getting a clear picture here now. Nobody has acknowledged this stuff for you.

 

 

1. "It's in the past and we can't go back so we need to put it behind us." I agree that we need to put it behind us, but this is like salt I the wound for me.

 

While to her she's trying to move forward because it did happen so many years ago and she's had way more years than you to grapple with this, to you it sounds like she's trying to quickly brush it off. Instead of acknowledging what she did, how you feel and apologizing. It's very hard to move forward that way.

 

2. "The sex with him didn't mean anything". Then why was she willing to risk what we had...

 

By cheapening the sex with him, she's indirectly cheapening the relationship she has with you further which does nothing to make you feel better about this whole thing.

 

3. "It happened 20 years ago, she was only 19, didn't do anything else and she put it behind her. And She chose me." It's nice she got to put it behind her and got to make an informed choice.

 

You feel like she took the reins and had total control over your life because you didn't have all the information you needed to make a solid decision as to where you were going. The only person who should have control over your life is you. Finding out, even if it was only a short time, she made decisions for you without your knowledge isn't only frustrating but a shock to find out so much later.

 

4. "We are all sinners and deserve to be forgiven." This is just a cop-out IMO to excuse what's he did. As if it's okay to intentionally do things that you know will hurt someone because hey, we all sin.

 

All I can say here is I agree.

 

But damn, it sucks knowing someone you trusted and thought wouldn't lie or hurt you actually, intentionally did many thing that she knew would hurt me and possibly change the course of my life

 

The image you had of her in your mind, the one you trusted to be real, you found out wasn't. It's similar to having her on a pedestal where she didn't belong and suddenly things have become clear and you see her like you would see so many other people in this world. Not perfect and not even close! Very human. Flawed. And capable of hurting you. Your vision of her has shattered away and now you're left with reality and you don't like reality (who would?), you like the person you thought she was, the person you thought you were with that whole time. You want that person back and feel she took that away from you. The comfort and the trust. More loss of control over your life.

 

My absolute best possible advice is for you to get some alone time that you desperately need (no kids, just you by your self) but I don't mean move out or separate or anything. I just mean this week spend time alone at a park you like to go to or a river you used to fish at as a kid with grandpa but somewhere that's yours. Sit for a while and soul search. Somewhere you have good memories that don't include her in any way. Spend as many hours there as you can. If you're fortunate enough to have an out of the way spot in the woods or something, scream your head off out there, get angry about it but come to grips with the fact that she is human, she's not as "good" as you thought, it sucks but you're a man and a father who can stand tall, figure out what's best for him and his kids and you CAN figure out how to do this. You know you. You know what will work for you.

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ForeverTainted

If all this had been was the discovery of a foolish teenager 20 years ago I would say being miserable for two years was probably a you issue that needs to let go.

 

But it seems by more and more of your posts that she is a habitual liar. Mayb a pathalogical one and she herself doesn't know the truth from her lies. It is a bad habit or she has something wrong upstairs. She probably can't be honest with herself and therefore can't be with anyone else.

 

I'd find a new counsellor. And I'd ask yourself how great of a marriage you have had with someone who lies constantly?

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Okay, I'm getting a clear picture here now. Nobody has acknowledged this stuff for you.

 

 

 

 

While to her she's trying to move forward because it did happen so many years ago and she's had way more years than you to grapple with this, to you it sounds like she's trying to quickly brush it off. Instead of acknowledging what she did, how you feel and apologizing. It's very hard to move forward that way.

 

 

 

By cheapening the sex with him, she's indirectly cheapening the relationship she has with you further which does nothing to make you feel better about this whole thing.

 

 

 

You feel like she took the reins and had total control over your life because you didn't have all the information you needed to make a solid decision as to where you were going. The only person who should have control over your life is you. Finding out, even if it was only a short time, she made decisions for you without your knowledge isn't only frustrating but a shock to find out so much later.

 

 

 

All I can say here is I agree.

 

 

 

The image you had of her in your mind, the one you trusted to be real, you found out wasn't. It's similar to having her on a pedestal where she didn't belong and suddenly things have become clear and you see her like you would see so many other people in this world. Not perfect and not even close! Very human. Flawed. And capable of hurting you. Your vision of her has shattered away and now you're left with reality and you don't like reality (who would?), you like the person you thought she was, the person you thought you were with that whole time. You want that person back and feel she took that away from you. The comfort and the trust. More loss of control over your life.

 

My absolute best possible advice is for you to get some alone time that you desperately need (no kids, just you by your self) but I don't mean move out or separate or anything. I just mean this week spend time alone at a park you like to go to or a river you used to fish at as a kid with grandpa but somewhere that's yours. Sit for a while and soul search. Somewhere you have good memories that don't include her in any way. Spend as many hours there as you can. If you're fortunate enough to have an out of the way spot in the woods or something, scream your head off out there, get angry about it but come to grips with the fact that she is human, she's not as "good" as you thought, it sucks but you're a man and a father who can stand tall, figure out what's best for him and his kids and you CAN figure out how to do this. You know you. You know what will work for you.

 

You nailed it. Although in fairness, she has apologized and said she didn't mean to hurt me. I just think she did try to brush it off quickly because she dealt with it a long time ago and it was old... for her. She has made me out to be the bad guy trying to hurt her by not letting it go. Where I think she hasn't taken full responsibility is with the lies and making out with the other guy. She still says she only cheated one time (the ONS) for a few minutes before stopping it and it was all during the time she was 19. She doesn't acknowledge that she lied throughout and it was cheating when she made out with the other guy, even if only for a few seconds.

 

I have a letter our first MC had us write. This was about week after DDay. She had told me she cheated but made it sound as if some guy started having sex with her while she was passed out. We were on vacation and begged for the truth so we could heal. A week later we get home and she admits she went to the guy's room and knew what she was doing. Three days later, in the letter, she says she resents me asking the same thing over and over again. That is the only reason I got the truth! she was angry that I was putting her through the ringer. A few days later I got more trickle truth and found out about the second incident where she made out with the guy. I was an SOB and out of line for questioning her and thinking she may have cheated other times. She was more concerned about not letting her old roomie know I was listening in on a phone call because she didn't think it was fair to her roomie, but it's was okay to lie to me.

 

He parents know and her moms response was it was minuscule and I just needed to forgive her because it wasn't a big deal. And her dad said when I lied to the our kids about why were upset that I was just as much a sinner and liar as her ( like I was going to tell my kids we were fighting because mommy got naked with another guy when we were together). That was my lowest point and i truly understood at that point how someone could take their own life (not that i would ever put my kids through that). I loved my inlaws like my own parents and had a bond with them, especially my mother in law (called her mom before we even got married). Now, that bond is gone (although I don't think they feel differently about me) and it is all I can do to not refer to my MIL by her first name. The only reason I force myself to call her mom is that I think she would really be hurt and my wife would quit referring to my parents as "mom & dad" out of spite, which would hurt my parents. I truly felt like I would have been better off saying I had lied and cheated IF they would have reacted the same way with the roles reversed.

 

My family has no clue this is going on and they have been leaning on me with health issues my parents have and family issues my sibs are dealing with. They have no clue that we are having issues, my family noticed I am more distant but think it is work and I am more social with friends (which I spend less time socializing).

 

Thank you for letting me rant and giving me feedback. It really is helping and I am staring to feel less guilty for being upset. Sick f hearing I have over reacted when I made it clear that I would want to know the truth so I wouldn't feel like the fool.

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If all this had been was the discovery of a foolish teenager 20 years ago I would say being miserable for two years was probably a you issue that needs to let go.

 

But it seems by more and more of your posts that she is a habitual liar. Mayb a pathalogical one and she herself doesn't know the truth from her lies. It is a bad habit or she has something wrong upstairs. She probably can't be honest with herself and therefore can't be with anyone else.

 

I'd find a new counsellor. And I'd ask yourself how great of a marriage you have had with someone who lies constantly?

 

We are on our second MC and I do like this one and she says my wife has to face the consequences of her choices, which the MC said includes not being around alcohol EVER in a party atmosphere/concert/class reunion unless I am with her. She has never done girls night out since we got married but has gone to concerts with girlfriends. I don't think she will cheat but think she will lie so I am no longer comfortable with concerts and wouldn't want her being around exes who tried to break us up.

 

I think still being this messed up two years after finding out is a me issue in copping with it. I am staring IC again.

 

A lot of the lies, if not most, about stuff after marriage are smaller issues by themselves. They have only become bigger issues because of the bigger lies and pattern of lying. Same with her past. It's not that she had a past it's that she told me past partners were guys that she now claims were never sexual partners and one of guys she now says was a FWB was trying to get her to dump me until we got engaged. He was not living in our state so I don't think they hooked up while we were together. I thought that we had a great marriage but to me a great marriage included honesty. Now I do question how great it really was or if it was just a case of ignorance being bliss. I think she will lie, mostly through omission or by deleting history on the computer. She says she has proven in 20+ years of fidelity that she can be trusted. Again, this minimizes the lies that were maintained and made up throughout.

 

I know it comes across that I don't appreciate her and don't care about her, that really isn't the case. If I didn't care about her, I could shut down and say I don't care anymore and she isn't worth the anguish. She is a great mother to our kids, does 99% of house work (she works for me about 12 hours a week, two days a week most of the year), makes and has my coffee waiting on me every morning even though she doesn't drink coffee and I honestly believe she has been faithful after we got engaged. She has supported me in my career choices and took care of me after a somewhat serious accident. I lalways let her know I appreciated her, bought her flowers, wrote love notes, little gifts for no special occasion, told her she was my everything. I miss that.

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I know it comes across that I don't appreciate her and don't care about her, that really isn't the case. If I didn't care about her, I could shut down and say I don't care anymore and she isn't worth the anguish. She is a great mother to our kids, does 99% of house work (she works for me about 12 hours a week, two days a week most of the year), makes and has my coffee waiting on me every morning even though she doesn't drink coffee and I honestly believe she has been faithful after we got engaged. She has supported me in my career choices and took care of me after a somewhat serious accident. I lalways let her know I appreciated her, bought her flowers, wrote love notes, little gifts for no special occasion, told her she was my everything. I miss that.

Then be careful not to break her in your pursuit of perfection. Be gentle, and be ready to forgo some sharp edges of the past.

And coffee every morning?.. oh lovely heaven hopefully you'd reciprocate well.

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You say that you want her to admit being a liar, and you want her to change from now on.

 

Well, what happens if she doesn't admit? and if she doesn't change? Because you wrote here terrible things about her. If I were you. and felt the way you do to your wife, I would leave.

 

if you can't put it all behind you - I dont understand why are you staying. If you decide to stay, so stay. But it seems that you decided to stay, but with one foot on the fence.

 

I think you should make a serious rethinking about it. It's a new decision:

This is HER, for good and for bad.

 

Do you choose her including her flaws? Including her PAST? If you choose her again - it's also your job to come clean and fresh.

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