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When we try to justify affairs


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Who're we kidding? The more I read on the infidelity and OW/OM boards , the sadder I feel . In my own 4 year A, even during the A, I could never justify it I myself . Sure, I tried to come up with all kinds of excuses but really there are NONE. I wish I had never gone down that path of hypocrisy and lack of character .

 

I see so many excuses being presented on these forums to engage in and continue As, it's appalling and heartbreaking . There really is a black and white when it comes to fidelity in M.

 

Just a thought ... A hope that people will read these forums and try and find reasons to end their As..

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I completely agree with you. This is the way of the world is these days. Justifying horrendous behavior.

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I don't read very many posts here trying to justify the affair. You do on the other hand read posts where reasons are given for choosing to have the affair. Those are two very different things.

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Most people simply list "reasons" which are an explanation but not an excuse. And to their credit, they don't try to make them excuses.

 

Some people conflate "marital problems" and "reasons that WS cheated" when they are not the same thing, at all.

 

I only see a few people who had or are having affairs who try to defend their actions...most of those people come across as very immature and/or very morally challenged.

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But I think a better approach would be to list reasons ( to ourselves) to make our marriages happier and more stable . Or lists of things to do to divorce as amicably as possible .

 

When we're listing reasons for staying in the A, at the end of the day we're trying to use them to justify our wayward behavior .

 

I'm not trying to attack anyone. The tonality of written word can be perceived very differently from spoken . My post is meant in a most compassionate way .

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From what I can see, the majority of affairs do not occur because someone sits down with themselves one fine day to have an internal dialogue about the merits and risks of having an affair.

 

Nor do they sit down and talk to themselves about the merits of their marriage.

 

What I am more convince of, are the stories in which people are living in remote control marriages (you fill in the missing blanks) and chance events occur in which a co-worker or community friend (little league parent, PTA rep, friend down the street, old flame on FB, whatever) enters into the picture and the sparks begin to fly.

 

Further, it seems to me that the worst of affairs occurs in these situations because of high emotional feeding without crossing any established boundaries. This is the Glass "Not just friends" syndrome. But I do not doubt for a second that for ONE (if not both) it was at one point "just friends".

 

In these scenarios, lists about happiness don't get made because the WS is now working from a new list: things I like more about my AP than my BS.

 

 

But I think a better approach would be to list reasons ( to ourselves) to make our marriages happier and more stable . Or lists of things to do to divorce as amicably as possible .

 

When we're listing reasons for staying in the A, at the end of the day we're trying to use them to justify our wayward behavior .

 

I'm not trying to attack anyone. The tonality of written word can be perceived very differently from spoken . My post is meant in a most compassionate way .

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compulsivedancer

Fellini, my head spun constantly during my A. Just because I wasn't thinking about it in the moment doesn't mean I wasn't thinking about it in the off-times. But it was so exciting and felt so good that while it was happening it overtook all of the doubts and fears.

 

Also, the head spinning would get stuck in loops. I wish I had confessed to a friend who could've made me look at my own bullsh]t. Perhaps that could've knocked me out of my own loop. Instead, I only discussed it with OM, which helped create more justifications.

Edited by compulsivedancer
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Fellini : so true. I remember making that list .. How my own focus shifted completely to the wrong list .

 

CD: you express it so well . The continuous head spinning, again around the wrong list . Hope u and CM are doing well.

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I think there are certain acts people commit during affairs which are very hard to excuse or justify. Neglecting children for the A, spending a lot of marital money on the A, bringing the AP into your marital bed. Those things are pretty despicable on top of the huge baseline betrayal.

 

I have a lot of respect for remorseful or realistic WSs who engage in real discussion on these boards. The ones who are defogged to some extent, but feel trapped between two worlds.

 

An unremorseful WS is very irritating. "You pushed me into it" is what I heard. This coming from someone who'd had three affairs in her life. The mind is a terrible thing to waste.

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Also, the head spinning would get stuck in loops. I wish I had confessed to a friend who could've made me look at my own bullsh]t. Perhaps that could've knocked me out of my own loop. Instead, I only discussed it with OM, which helped create more justifications.

 

Well you woulda thunk!

But, my WS had her best friend -coworker knowing along the development of the EA. Only an EA so she didnt get too worked up. Then my WS announce (on our wedding anniversary) that she wanted to sleep with this co-worker.

 

Was this friend able to knock her out of the loop? NOT A CHANCE.

 

She said: Are you prepared to lose your husband and daughter and marriage?

To which my WS said, avoiding the question: I don't wantto lose AP.

 

(as you can read in another thread here)

 

Same thing speaking to her IC: her IC yelling at her! WTF are you doing!!! Go home and work things out with your H. But don't tell him about this EA! And don't sleep with the guy, it will kill your marriage.

 

Then she even TALKED WITH THE AP about things and he confirmed, this is going to end UGLY for everyone, and your 9 year old is going to be hurt BAD.

 

None of it stopped her for even a second. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang.

 

That marriage destroyed.

 

So CD, don't tear yourself up of wudda's cudda's. There ain't no cure for love.

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yellowmaverick
I don't read very many posts here trying to justify the affair. You do on the other hand read posts where reasons are given for choosing to have the affair. Those are two very different things.

 

It's just semantics. There is only one universal reason - you (general) engaged in an affair because you wanted to. You can try to wrap it all up in a pretty package, but it all comes down to self-entitlement.

 

Every married person in the world would have a "reason", if he wanted one. Cheaters don't have a corner on that one.

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When you compare infidelity with a business term rather than an emotional personal experience what we have is someone that has beached a contract, is deceptive and is committing fraud. Why is not fulfilling your marriage contract than different than a contract with your bank or business partner? How many on this forum would go into business and risk their life's savings with with someone that is willing to commit fraud, lie to you and breach their contract, be honest? If you thought about infidelity in the same way a bank or credit bureau thinks about a breach of contract, would you still feel the same way about what you did to your betrayed spouse? Like affairs, most frauds have to be well planned, they are not a mistake but a choice, ask Bernard Madoff. How many here thought they could ever be a Bernard Madoff to their own family? Can there ever be an excuse good enough to explain what you did. Honesty with a hell of a lot of remorse is the only thing.

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It's pretty obvious certain members of this forum want to talk about this, and you're in the middle of it realist. Are you really a realist? I wonder.

 

By now, it's apparent no one on this forum is going to 'change your mind' with typed words of advice, opinion, outlook or judgement. In a way that's a good thing, because we shouldn't be easily swayed and should live the way we feel is best. My slant? That way might be best 'for you' but not necessarily the best for everyone involved. You may include readers of this website in that group too, for some will surely be influenced. Is that the motivation behind your defensiveness? Strength in numbers? Affirmation?

 

You have it. Many see your point and defend it along with you.

 

My advice remains to live life by not walking over anyone. Not even for the promise of great personal gain or satisfaction. I believe, simply by the laws of nature alone that such a promise will be exposed as a lie. Karma? Ok.

 

All that said, you've written some incredibly insightful posts realist. Your intelligence and deduction methods are not in question, IMO. Something tells me you're looking for a way to make it right. I hope you find it.

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Grumpybutfun

I do think people come here and read and see something they can relate to in the forums and it makes them think. I have actually seen people state this over the years that they didn't want to get in the same situation or it made them realize what they were going to be giving up. It woke them up to read what others wrote...as far as justification, people can call it excuses or reasons, but either/or it never quite gives the real definition of why people cheat. The reasons aren't important, their character is important and if they have a weak character or have no idea who they are or what they stand for they can find any justification for what they do. Mostly attention from another man or woman feeds ego and makes them feel good, an instant gratification response for a void in themselves that they blame their partner for not feeding. Sometimes people misinterpret codependency with love so they feel their partner has to feed their ego and keep them suspended in fairyland in order for them to feel fulfilled when actually it is themselves who should be fulfilling that need of feeling good about themselves by being a well rounded and good person who sees the world as an interrelating place instead of a seat for their ego.

 

I think your post is very well said in that it makes us think about how much responsibility do we have to be honest and loyal even if we aren't happy with the person we are supposed to be honest and loyal with? How much work is enough before we make a decision to be duplicitous and hurtful in our actions? When do we stop becoming a part of something more like our relationship and start being an individual again? When we do this, are we even married anymore anyway or in a loyal relationship anymore or has all vows and all promises been broken to the point where we even deserve to continue in that relationship? Shouldn't we just dissolve the union and start all over or dissolve the union and move on because we obviously aren't in a healthy enough place to do something so profound as be in a marriage or committed relationship?

 

I think your thread is somewhat questioning how much we get to lie to ourselves, our partners and the rest of the world without our soul being aware enough to say self-denial is wrong, destructive and unhealthy. I wonder how many actually see deceit and infidelity as it's own punishment since it devalues people and promotes a facade of fairyland euphoria which only lessens people's quality of life in every way imaginable, even the wronged spouse who does not know or the children who will never guess. Being only halfway present to their lives, waywards experience half lives that never quite fulfills anything in them so they have a constant need to be fulfilled due to their own lack. Reminds me of purgatory.

:(

No quality of life in infidelity,

Grumps

Edited by Grumpybutfun
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yellowmaverick
I don't read very many posts here trying to justify the affair. You do on the other hand read posts where reasons are given for choosing to have the affair. Those are two very different things.

 

Weird. My previous post double-posted. Guess bc it was just so brilliant. :)

Edited by yellowmaverick
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They justify their actions so they can get around the fact they behaved like children and found screwing around easier then talking to their partner. I'm sure cheaters usually have a laundry list of reasons as to why they have an affair. All of them are pure BS of course.

 

It makes them feel better if they can blame their disgusting behavior on other things, rather then just being 100% pure selfish. These are the same people who start every post with "I love my husband/wife" and then proceed to immediately follow that up by telling us that they betrayed and cheated on this person. By the end, you are left wondering if they know what the word "love" means. Then you wonder..is it willful ignorance? Or not?

Edited by Spectre
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Selfishness. Weakness. Opportunity.

And those 3 things often go hand in hand when affairs are concerned.

 

I've quit going to the OW/OM after like 2 times to be honest. There really is some stuff that could make me facepalm a hole into my skull.

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compulsivedancer

I had always heard "it's not the sex, it's the lies." But during the A I remember thinking, how do you have the sex without the lies? I tried that in our open marriage conversations. Ultimately, unless you get permission (which is rare), to get the sex you have to tell the lies. The other choice is to leave the relationship.

 

This doesn't justify cheating at all, but it is a big part of the headspace. You want something very bad that is not possible to have and isn't worth giving up your marriage for - so you try to have it without giving up your marriage. It's not a good bet, but in the moment, it's a better bet than just walking out.

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compulsivedancer

I've quit going to the OW/OM after like 2 times to be honest. There really is some stuff that could make me facepalm a hole into my skull.

 

I can't stand it. It's clear that rationality is not functioning there most of the time. It's too much like a lot of my during-affair thought processes.

Edited by compulsivedancer
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I had always heard "it's not the sex, it's the lies." But during the A I remember thinking, how do you have the sex without the lies? I tried that in our open marriage conversations. Ultimately, unless you get permission (which is rare), to get the sex you have to tell the lies. The other choice is to leave the relationship.

 

Yep, it does always amuse me when people say things like "it is not the sex, but the lies". Nope, it's pretty much both, it doesn't have to be one or the other. It's weird when people think it does. We humans are complicated beings and can be bothered by more then one aspect of a situation.

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You really have 2 options:

 

Face what you CHOSE to do to someone you promised to love and be faithful to (and then destroyed that promise)

 

or

 

Blameshift

 

They are mutually exclusive

 

And blameshifting doesn't require honesty or humility

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It's just semantics. There is only one universal reason - you (general) engaged in an affair because you wanted to. You can try to wrap it all up in a pretty package, but it all comes down to self-entitlement.

 

Every married person in the world would have a "reason", if he wanted one. Cheaters don't have a corner on that one.

 

 

I think you are missing the point entirely.

 

Justification means that "I was right in doing what I did."

 

A reason means "this is why I did what I did."

 

Those are two very different scenarios. It is not semantics at all.

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People are motivated to do all sorts of things in life. Some of those things are justified, and others are not.

 

Everyone wants to feel 'right' in what they decide to do. That simply is not the case.

 

When you look at those decisions you have to understand what specifically influenced that particular decision. It is very easy to sit back and say, "that was the right/wrong decision." It is a very different thing to understand why that decision was made. We all like to jump to conclusions. "You are wrong!" That is not the issue at all.

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yellowmaverick
I think you are missing the point entirely.

 

Justification means that "I was right in doing what I did."

 

A reason means "this is why I did what I did."

 

Those are two very different scenarios. It is not semantics at all.

 

Nope, not missing your point. Just not buying it.

 

Like I said, every married person in the world could come up with a "reason" to cheat. We ALL have our grievances.

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