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The WS and his/her view of self


notserene

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I don't want to make too much of the "affair down" concept because I feel like it's a sop to my self-esteem, but when my husband cheated on me he chose someone who is much less accomplished than I am in every way. She is an unemployed recovering drug addict and I am a professional. I don't make tons of money because I work for a nonprofit organization, but I am well regarded by my peers. My husband has a good job but he is not as well educated as I am.

 

I am guessing that he chose this person because he felt superior to her and because she was available...it made him feel "validated" because in her eyes he was a "catch." Needless to say, she is mentally and emotionally unstable and ending the affair took several painful days of phone calls and text messages that I had to sit through. :sick: I was quite sure that we were going to need to take out a restraining order.

 

I worry about what kind of person he is...that he felt the need to "prove" himself with someone else, particularly someone who sounded like she needed professional help of some kind. We had been having some financial difficulties in our marriage and he said that he felt as though I had been looking down on him...I don't really know what to make of all this. I don't think that this gave him a license to cheat, obviously.

 

Did your WS "affair down" and what traits in your spouse do you think pushed them in this direction?

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ladydesigner

Both myself and my WH had A's that would be considered "affairing down." I believe in my WH's case she did make him feel superior because I was the breadwinner and more educated one. I never once made my WH feel less than because of it. I just did what i needed to for our family. My WH admitted to me post A that he felt inferior to me :-( So much for being a successful mom.

 

My A was a revenge affair (I had after my WH's first A). I too chose someone beneath me. The XOM told me everything I wanted to hear and that's it. I ate it up hook line and sinker.

 

I think in these cases of "affairing down" it is more of a concept of the two people's behavior as seen as "affairing down." It is a degrading act and position to be in.

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My wife's AP was a 27 year that dropped out if college in his last semester, his work experience was being a mall security guard, but he was fired before we ever met him and he stayed unemployed for a few years, including during their affair. He lived with his grandmother. Less than a month after I discovered their affair he joined the military, for lack of options.

 

I had steady employment at a good job, a college degree and plenty of work experience should I need to find a good job. I provided for my family while my wife worked part time retail, we didn't need the money but she liked working.

 

So yes, I would say that she definitely affaired down, she admitted as much and said that the only reason that she picked him was that he would be easy to control, he was pretty nerdy, in a star wars nerd way, not a smart nerd way.

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I think a lot of the draw of an affair is the ego feed and the great feeling of getting validation from someone that is enamored with us. It's great to feel superior, desired, and lusted after.

 

Unfortunately, a spouse is not a great source of external validation. They are quite literally stuck with us by contract. They can't even have sex with anyone else so of course they come after us. And after a few years, their not likely to be impressed with our job, our looks, our jokes, or our old glory day stories. Not much ego feed going on there.

 

But that new married person in the office that's been hanging on my every word? You can show them just your best side, tell all of your jokes like they're new and if their interest grows, then you think you must really be something. And when it appears that they're willing to risk their family, job, marriage and kids just so they can spend time with you - Wow, I must really be something if they're gonna risk all of that FOR ME. There's an ego feed for you.

 

For someone that really needs external validation, a spouse has little chance to compete and the profile of the 'other person' is really of little importance. Heck, if they're a broken person, then they really need me to come in and be a savior. Even more of an ego feed.

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todreaminblue

my wayward spouse didnt affair down...he chose a financially secure woman with no mental problems ...i was the stay at home mum of five kids who wrote an eloquent passionate letter to get him the job where he met her while I was juggling bills and growing children....he didnt want me to go to work....i studied on and off over many years when i could but five kids is tough..she had one older child who lived with her ex husband who she left because he was abusive and controlling...i was supportive all the way through the good and bad with my ws...she wasnt the first fling........i wouldnt consider that he affaired down.......at the time.......he did however tell me he stuffed up.....even with all my mental problems i always tried my best......who knows why people cheat or if they affair up or down ......doubt they would admit that to a hurting spouse...i was goign through many things when we split up school refusal bullying of my girls by other girls, a son in juvenile detention begging me to get him out constant court appearances and goal visits...felt i was failing on many levels i was drowning in responsibility..i got my son out on prbation ....the girls i was working through, bills i was juggling.......relationship well......i was gettign tired .....he failed me.......and i failed to save the relationship....could i have.......yes....should i have......no it was meant to end...some things are...doesnt matter if he thought he was a catch or she was......what matters is .....i am still kickin....he apologised and i forgive him....and my children ....are bright souls...and others tell me so......so its not personal bias...smilin....best wishes i hope that your relationship goes from strength to strength...it can ....it will and best wishes....deb

Edited by todreaminblue
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compulsivedancer

It depends what the MW or MM is looking for, too. I have a friend who is separated from her H after an EA. He provides everything for her financially, and he truly loves her, but money has never been motivating for her, and he is not good at expressing his love or meeting her needs, as she sees them. So she goes out and looks for someone to fill the emotional void and finds losers (because that is who she relates to).

Edited by compulsivedancer
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Unless the person they are having an affair with has no idea they are in a relationship, then I think people ALWAYS "affair down". I don't care how mentally stable or successful you are, if you are knowing getting with someone who is married or in a committed relationship, you are trash compared to the one being betrayed. Unless the betrayed has been physically abusive or cheated themselves, but most of the time that isn't the case. You lose any good thing that could be said about you when you knowingly get with someone who is married or in a relationship.

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Interesting.

 

Do I compare myself to OM, or do I compare my wife to his? Or the other women OM was also messing with to each other?

 

I know what was attractive about OM to her, but its apples to orange. The only downshifting I see was in his character and hers.

Edited by dichotomy
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compulsivedancer
Interesting.

 

Do I compare myself to OM, or do I compare my wife to his? Or the other women OM was also messing with to each other?

 

I know what was attractive about OM to her, but its apples to orange. The only downshifting I see was in his character and hers.

 

It seems to me that someone's worth is generally a matter of perspective. Although Spectre has a good point.

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lollipopspot
You lose any good thing that could be said about you when you knowingly get with someone who is married or in a relationship.

 

That seems like a strong statement. I can understand from a BS's perspective that might feel true about the OM/OW. But I'm not sure that just the fact of being an OM/OW means that there's nothing else of value about you. There are a lot of judgments I can make about people whose values are different than my own, things that I think are equal to being an AP, but they're commonplace. If I saw people in this one-dimensional way, I wouldn't respect or like any of you, so I try to see people more in their complexity.

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I have seen several A's blow up. Not just in my own broken M. The one that really stands out is one two friend's of mine had together. The woman's husband was abusive and an alcoholic. She would come to work with bruises on a regular basis. I was very young at the time and didn't know what to make of the situation but I was well aware that she and the male in our department had begun an affair. He was also married. It was a huge mess when it all came out. Huge... they are still together and were married a couple of years after the fallout. Yes, they began as an affair and it was a huge mess that I witnessed as a friend and a coworker. The woman is still my friend. It may have not been the right choice to make but I am very glad that she is no longer anyone's punching bag. She is happier than I've ever seen her. I'm a little older (lol) now and I might understand the world even less than I did then... I knew little about the other BS. She left immediately and I hope she went on to great happiness too. Did my friend affair down IMO? No. Could she had made a different choice in how she left her abusive marriage? Of course.

 

The A's in my M...well, for me it doesn't matter. It used to. I'm not sure there is a way to come out of either end feeling very good about one's self.

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I don't want to make too much of the "affair down" concept because I feel like it's a sop to my self-esteem, but when my husband cheated on me he chose someone who is much less accomplished than I am in every way. She is an unemployed recovering drug addict and I am a professional. I don't make tons of money because I work for a nonprofit organization, but I am well regarded by my peers. My husband has a good job but he is not as well educated as I am.

 

I am guessing that he chose this person because he felt superior to her and because she was available...it made him feel "validated" because in her eyes he was a "catch." Needless to say, she is mentally and emotionally unstable and ending the affair took several painful days of phone calls and text messages that I had to sit through. :sick: I was quite sure that we were going to need to take out a restraining order.

 

I worry about what kind of person he is...that he felt the need to "prove" himself with someone else, particularly someone who sounded like she needed professional help of some kind. We had been having some financial difficulties in our marriage and he said that he felt as though I had been looking down on him...I don't really know what to make of all this. I don't think that this gave him a license to cheat, obviously.

 

Did your WS "affair down" and what traits in your spouse do you think pushed them in this direction?

Your husband is a knight in shining armor. Often they are too empathetic in trying to steer the needs of ow without asking first. It's a nice surprise or a present, but the other person won’t feel good about being in the white knight’s debt. What the “rescued” partner doesn’t realise is that the white knight is just showing the affection and love he missed out on in childhood.

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Hard to say. Down in years certainly- 25 years 'down' as she was half his age:rolleyes: But I would say she was slimmer, prettier, undoubtedly she adored him and saw no flaws (I just loved him and tolerated his foibles with an affectionate smile). But she is, IMO, not that intelligent or well-educated, has major emotional issues and is unstable. But hey aren't we all at times?

 

Put it this way, if someone was to spec the perfect ow for a MLC man, she would be pretty damn close!

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gettingstronger

Up or down I have no idea but our OW was so different than me in ways my H and I had agreed were important in our marriage-

 

1. I was put my career on hold and took a job where I could be with the kids more so he could travel-she left her kids to go travel to meet him

2. We had always valued honesty and integrity- they had neither during the A

3. Humility- we are not showy people from the cars we drive to the clothes we wear-she was all show

 

Looks? I don't know- I was both relieved and insulted that she was average looking-

 

What you did nail is that he needed an ego boost and she provided it-

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I don't put too much into the up or down thing because it is not like most people have a list of potential AP's beating down their door. IMO, it centers more around availability/proximity, willingness and timing(total chance), with timing being the more important factor. It's not all that much different than any other relationship.

 

A WS is looking for something they are not getting from their BS. If the AP is able to supply what the WS is looking for, the resume doesn't really mean all that much.

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My WW affaired with someone who was living a totally different life than mine, so who's to say if it was up or down? He was unattached and could go out as he pleased. I had a son and spent my evenings reading to him. He was confident to the point of arrogance. I was modest. I don't think much thought was put into what he was in comparison to me. He acted like a friend at the "right" time, there was an attraction, so it happened. We can drive ourselves crazy with this stuff.

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A WS is looking for something they are not getting from their BS.

 

I've really got to learn how to grow a second penis.

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Affairs are managed under different criteria, in the sense that affair currency is more about "feelings". It's kind of like an exchange of volleying validation and the fact that it is a secret relationship conducted as a supplement to ones life. A supplement relationship can be with someone that may give someone pause if they were faced with choosing that person as a lifetime partner.

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I've really got to learn how to grow a second penis.

 

Why, was she into double penetration? ;) j/k

 

Remember the biggest sex organ is the brain.

 

You were saying in another thread you were in pretty much a sexless marriage until her affair. Something between her ears changed when she had the affair.

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Affairs are managed under different criteria, in the sense that affair currency is more about "feelings". It's kind of like an exchange of volleying validation and the fact that it is a secret relationship conducted as a supplement to ones life. A supplement relationship can be with someone that may give someone pause if they were faced with choosing that person as a lifetime partner.

 

 

Very astute observation.

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Why, was she into double penetration? ;) j/k

 

Remember the biggest sex organ is the brain.

 

You were saying in another thread you were in pretty much a sexless marriage until her affair. Something between her ears changed when she had the affair.

 

I just saw an opportunity for a joke and took it. Probably should have put a little winky face on it or something.

 

I have no real argument with the larger point, other than to say that she had some responsibility for communicating those needs, too. I asked plenty. It was a constantly moving target, if it wasn't just blamed on her "low sex drive." To be honest, nothing was ever enough for that woman. She got everything she wanted and then didn't want it but wanted something else. She had a good man and threw him away. She was always an ungrateful bitch and still is.

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I've seen this topic come up several times already. Seems it's natural for the BS to want to know if there is something about the AP that their spouse wanted that they weren't giving.

 

It's almost an insult when what the AP has to offer seems like a down grade from what the WS already had.

 

I remember having this debate many moons ago, long before I was cheated on. There were a group of us sitting around a table drinking beers and shooting the breeze. One girl commented that she thought it would easier to deal with a break up if the person he left her for was better than she was in some way but that if she isn't, then it's an insult. Well, it was a pretty heated debate that night. Some agreed that yes it is an insult, others said it isn't an insult that it must have been what he wanted.

 

In the end I don't think it matters if the AP was an upgrade or a downgrade. The fact is, it hurts to know that your spouse wanted something from someone other than yourself. It hurts to know that they would choose to be with another person after expressing their fidelity to you.

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Isn't most of this stuff subjective anyhow? Obviously there was something attractive about the AP for the WS to stray. Whether it was physical or not. Probably has very little to do with socio-economic standings. I see that a lot here. Comparisons of who is smarter and more well off financially. It didn't matter to the WS one way or the other. How could a BS be unbiased in their review of the OW/OM anyway? Especially initially. The urge to figure out why is impossible to ignore sometimes. So, we try to list the reasons why the affair/Ap was not all it was cracked up to be.

 

It was also difficult for me to stand outside of infidelity as a whole. To realize that not all situations are created equal. Just like the friend I posted about on the other page. Yes, she made the choice to have an affair. Her BS also made the choice to be a **** to her. Every time he verbally and physically abused her he made a choice. They both broke vows but she was the town cheating ho for a while. Regardless of what her H did. Also, her AP (now husband) was not what most people would deem handsome. He loves the heck out of her though. He doesn't hit her or mistreat her (from what I can tell as a friend on the outside of their M). So, even though she isn't living in the nice big house or driving the nice vehicles she had with her exh. How could she had affaired down? It's a matter of opinion I guess. If fidelity speaks to someone's worth more than other any other action or not.

Edited by Journee
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I am honest to a fault, stubborn as hell over my principles, and believe that character and integrity are the definition of a man. He was an arrogant, lying piece of **** who cried about not feeling attractive or loved - while marrying his long term girlfriend with whom he had two young children. I've never had to wonder if she "affaired down." I know she did.

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... I think maybe AP are usually just good at providing a "upshifting" mirror to the WS themselves. They are not looking at AP as up or down from BS, but they see the "UP" they want to see or feel in themselves.

Edited by dichotomy
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