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Naive or Insecure?


GreySpace

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So, I'm very confused and not sure what to think. I'll try to keep it short.

 

Our marriage has been kind of rocky. We don't argue all the time and there's no physical violence, but we have our disagreements. What married couple doesn't though, right?

 

She's always been one to have male friends and I've been ok about it. Sometimes I give her a hard time, but when push comes to shove she does what she wants. IMO, I have good reasons to give her a hard time. 5 years ago were going through a tough time, but we weren't separated. I caught her having cyber sex with 2 different men. I know she never met them because I could see they lived out of state. Well, she could have, but I don't think so. Anyway, when I confront her about the cyber and male friends in general she always gives me the same "I hate this jealousy stuff".

 

She always claims that she needs to get out of the house for a little while because she's stressed over family issues on her side. She was always one to get home at 5-6am when she goes out, which sometimes is 1-2 per week.

 

A few months back, she met a male friend on the internet. Also something she's does a lot, so it doesn't get to me anymore. She started hanging out at his house often, claiming they are only friends and they are helping each other cope with family issues they are having. She had a death in the family like 8 months ago. She would hang out there and get home early morning, but she also has another guy friend that she does the same thing with.

 

One time I asked this person's name and she got angry at me and said that he trusts me and I can't give his personal information. At this point she goes back into me being too jealous and I need to be secure and all that. Then she goes into that she's hanging out with him for business purposes. She has no business, but says she wants to start one.

 

Anyway, here we are 3-4 months later and she doesn't really hang out with him anymore. But, now she met someone else she's becoming friends with and that is also for "business purposes", but a totally different type of business. She hasn't stayed out late yet with this guy.

 

Man, there is so much stuff I'm leaving out. Maybe questions will help me get everything better.

 

What does everyone think? What should I do?

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Man Mountain Makino

I consider her late nights out at an opposite-sex single person's home to be conduct unbecoming a married person. She's putting you in a difficult spot, and doesn't seem to care.

 

I'd get to the bottom of these guy friends. It doesn't look good.

 

good luck.

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What??!! I dont know were to start...

 

1. She wants to be married and have a single lifestyle as well. If you let her you can blame only yourself. No, you're not a jealous guy. You only ask her to respect you, your marriage, and respect her vows.

 

2. What is an appropriate male friend? there isn't only one answer but you can say that - A. if you're invited, B. if she always willing to tell you were she's going, C. if you know the guys she is with, and they know you, If all the above are taking place than it may be appropriate.

 

But if she doesn't tell you where she's going, you're not invited, and she doesn't let you meeting them, well, Its not only inappropriate. It's a HUGE RED FLAG! She spits on you and your marriage, and she disregard your feelings, and does not respect you at all.

 

3. If it was friends from the past, so be it. But new male friends? RED FLAG!!!

 

4. If you ask me? There is 0.1% that she didnt cheat you. (and maybe is now)

 

What do you want to do? to continue like this forever? What are you possibilities? can you leave? do you have children? a house?

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As a woman who was

 

Trusting

Open minded

Forward thinking

Not jealous

 

I went against my gut and allowed my husband to spend too much time with a woman friend. And that was the only red flag not all the stuff you mentioned. I can't multi quote on my phone easy but I will say this.

 

 

She has no boundaries

 

Get "not just friends" by shirley glass.

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What??!!

 

I agree with you that I can only blame myself for being in this situation. I can't debate that. Even though I can't prove it, I also believe it's very likely she has cheated on me. Believe it or not, during all this, we do still have a good sex life...I think. That's one of the reasons I'm torn whether I'm just being a jealous and insecure man, or I have a legitimate gripe.

 

We have one child, a condo and other marital property.

 

There must be something wrong with me. I know that sometimes she disrespects me and our marriage by doing these things but I'm still not sure what to do.

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how would she feel if you spent all that time with opposite sex friends?

 

There is no way that she is not cheating on you.

 

She does not leave you many choices. If she will not change, then marriage is too tough to save it by yourself.

 

Give her some boundaries in marriage counseling if she will go.

 

If she will not follow the boundaries, you can suffer while she cheats over and over. Who is watching your child while she is gone?

 

Or you can hand her the divorce papers. Respect yourself. She does not respect you.

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TiredFamilyGuy

This is disrespectful behaviour, and unboundaried. You have let it happen without consequences, and the result is that she does not respect you. In a feedback loop, the less she respects you the more she will hang out with other guys to get her kicks, or whatever (Likely sex, you know that's true, right?).

 

You have to draw boundaries, which means getting the goods on her, which means confrontation, which means being prepared to divorce her if she does not pull her head out of her ass. First you must act. Or carry on being a doormat.

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Red flags everywhere!

 

You are not naive or insecure. She is having AT THE LEAST emotional affairs left and right on you.

 

The fact that she bounces from male friend to male friend and spends a lot of late nights and early morning there is not even because of one of a few things. It's only one thing. She is having a physical affair.

 

When she gives you the "I hate this jealousy stuff" she's gaslighting you into thinking there is something wrong with you and what you are thinking. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH YOU. She is allowing you to take the focus off her inappropriate behavior.

 

I know because I've been you my friend. She'll deny until the end of time, even if you collect indisputable proof. And any truth she may leak out will only be small pieces of the real story.

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Arvin_Solheim

I don't remember the last time I hung out with a woman(single or otherwise) as "Friends" that it didn't eventually ended in us having sex......

The whole idea just seems absurd to me; women have male friends but they don't hang out with them alone......

 

 

and call me crazy but ever since I joined here and read all about this online-sex stuff, I've lost my respect for humanity:D It's kind of stupid.....I just...don't get it....

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I'm still not sure what to do.

 

You need to put your foot down. Don't take what I have to say as disrespectful, but believe me when I say I was in your situation and knowing what I know now, you have few options.

 

It's not just that she doesn't respect you. She's actually growing to resent you because you are too stupid and trusting to think she's not banging guys left and right. She's actually thinking in her head "How much crappier do I have to treat this guy before he figures out I'm cheating on him and he leaves me."

 

Your marriage is probably OK for the most part. But she's got a whole other secret life you are ignoring and will be shocked to find out about. I'm not kidding when I tell you that your wife actually wants to leave you. However she's too lazy and scared to actually leave you. So she's having affair(s) to satisfy her independent lifestyle, but staying married to you for the security and support.

 

If you can find it, check out "A Woman's Infidelity". The reviews on it vary and the author's credentials are suspect, but I can guarantee if you read it, you'll think she was writing about your exact life.

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I think I need to see a therapist. She always brings it back to something I did wrong. She will always bring up an incident from more than 10 years ago. We were out at a bar and got a little drunk. We got into an argument and I used some bad words. I apologized like crazy and she still brings it up to this day. Bad words and more than 10 years ago. That's really only one of the few things she constantly brings up. I never cheated on her or even gave her any reason to be jealous. We even have sex more than most couples. Sometimes I think she's only with me for the financial stability. She doesn't work and pretty much sleeps until the afternoon most days.

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Greyspace,

No, you don't need a therapist you need assertiveness training.

 

She doesn't work and pretty much sleeps until the afternoon most days.
^^^^^^^^^^^^

Whaaaat ? :eek:

 

 

And you allow this???

 

Tell her to stop partying, get off her backside and get a job.

 

Tell her to shape-up or ship out - and mean it.

 

You've got "doormat" written all over you, and it's time to change that.

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I think I need to see a therapist. She always brings it back to something I did wrong. She will always bring up an incident from more than 10 years ago.

 

In her world, it's all your fault. I promise you WHEN you find out she's been cheating on you, that will be your fault too. You don't pay enough attention to me. You didn't rub my feet last night. You swore at me 10 years ago.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're too scared to put your foot down with her. She's probably pretty emotional when she reacts. You feel sorry for her and her life, but you feel responsible to help her. You're scared to be on your own.

 

The situation you are in won't change based on anything she's going to do. She's going to keep seeing other guys, screwing around on you, draining you financially, and blaming you for her lot in life.

 

The only thing you can change is you. But are you willing to do whatever you need to do so you can protect yourself and your child?

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One time I asked this person's name and she got angry at me and said that he trusts me and I can't give his personal information. At this point she goes back into me being too jealous and I need to be secure and all that.
Your kidding right? She hangs out at his house until 6:00am 1 to 2 times a week and will not even give you his name? If he were a just a friend, not only would you know his name, but she would be introducing you to him and having him over for dinner; as her lover on the other hand, she of course needs to protect his privacy from you. You have a right as her husband to be jealous when she gives you good reason to. there is nothing wrong with being rightfully jealous when your wife is clearly cheating on you. You are letting her make you into a cuckold. Shame on you for letting her do this.
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Its a good idea to consult with your friends, a lawyer, a therapist, what ever.

But in the end, they will not take any decision - It's you alone by your self. So take it step by step.

 

1. Do you want\ agree to continue with this life of yours? Y\N

 

Remember - if the answer is no, if you want a change, there is going to be a price, and you will have to fight for that change. it will not happen without you fighting for it, and your happyness won't come easily and not immediately.

 

2. If you decide to change - I think you will have a better chance if you take control, have the power and initiation, you act - she responds.

 

3. First go to a lawyer and get all the information you need.

 

4. I think that by confronting her or giving her a lecture you will achieve nothing. You have to make her coming to you. you have to get her into a shock mode. into a survival mode.

 

My idea is to make all preparations for divorce, split accounts ect (by the advice of a lawyer) and the file the papers. and hand it to her. She will be very surprised.

I know This is a very extreme step, but it's essential to reverse the balance of power between you.

 

Only after she has read the papers, you can tell her that you've had enough of her behavior. No more. If it turns out to a conversation dont sell youself too soon. take your time to think it over for at least 2 weeks.

 

Then, if you are willing to consider to reconcile, you will say your Inconclusive not negotiable terms. (write down your terms and be tough. (no going out without you, no male friends that you dont know and approve, ect...)

 

Last thing - If she is apathetic and want a divorce herself, its good to find out now when you are still young and can build a life with someone who loves you, wants you and respect you.

Edited by lolablue17
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I feel very sorry for you and she has emotionally abused you.

If you don't think she has been having sex with other men then I have a bridge to sell you. She sees you as a doormat who pays the bills for her single lifestyle when she feels like it. I would suggest:

 

1. Get your child paternity tested.

2. Get tested for STD's

3. See a lawyer to understand your options.

 

She totally has no respect for you whatsoever and sees you as a fool that she can manipulate. Please remember these words:

 

IF YOU DO NOT RESPECT YOURSELF THEN WHO WILL?

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I think I need to see a therapist. She always brings it back to something I did wrong. She will always bring up an incident from more than 10 years ago. We were out at a bar and got a little drunk. We got into an argument and I used some bad words. I apologized like crazy and she still brings it up to this day. Bad words and more than 10 years ago. That's really only one of the few things she constantly brings up. I never cheated on her or even gave her any reason to be jealous. We even have sex more than most couples. Sometimes I think she's only with me for the financial stability. She doesn't work and pretty much sleeps until the afternoon most days.

 

 

You don't need to see a therapist. What you need to understand is deflection and gaslighting.

 

Every marriage has their own set of standards and expectations, many of those are learned along the way. She has so far trained/conditioned you to accept her behaviors. The ones you have listed so far do not necessarily match up with 'normal' expectations. They sure wouldn't fly in my house.

 

There are no legitimate reasons why your wife should be spending hours at night or in the morning with men she meets on the internet. None. There is nothing you could have ever done that would make those actions ok.

 

"I'll take 'She's Cheating' for eleventy billion, Alex." I say that without reservation.

 

You are certainly naive. You are questioning whether you are insecure because she has gaslighted you into thinking you are insecure.

 

Stick around a bit. You can get some good advice here.

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Darren Steez

You're letting your wife hang out at other men's houses until 3 in the morning and it doesn't bother you..

 

*cough*

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That you have posted in this forum you have to expect a lot of responses that she is cheating. Surely you are in a better position to know this than anyone here, and if you dont know how could we - I mean really dead certain sure.

 

That your W is crossing certain boundaries, seems clear. That crossing boundaries is the first step towards affairs, yes (Glass is the recommended reading on this).

 

Instead of us asking you more questions I think you need more concrete details.

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The amount of red flagetry with this one! If every Chinese person held their national flag up high, there would be far less red flags than what your wife is showing right now.

 

File for divorce. You will have two outcomes, of which both will be beneficial to you.

 

Outcome 1: she accepts the D, you know where you stand and move on to someone who will love you and cherish you.

 

Outcome 2: she finally sees how serious this issue is and pleads you to stay, you both go to MC amd IC.

 

Seriously, don't put up with this bull. Cyber sex would have been enough for me to walk away.

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Friskyone4u

All I can say is WOW! This one is beyond comprehension to me. The other posters have said it all as far as advice. Get yourself an attorney.!! Quick!

My curiosity is what on earth was going thru your thought process as you have watched in a state of paralysis as your wife has initiated development of new male friends and staying out all night with them. I wish you had come here a lot sooner.

At this point only a real threat of divorce will get all the truth for you and I am afraid when you get to the bottom of this it will not be fun.

Hang in there and stop being a doormat. It is tough but you will have more respect for yourself one you man up and get some sense of control of your life.

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I personally believe what the goose thinks is ok for them is good for the gander or vice versa.....

 

develop female friends and find reasons to stay out till 5 am and then, when confronted, tell her, I can't deal with this jealously stuff....

 

If she grows accusatory, paranoid, jealous, crazy....well, then....

 

Cheaters project their emotions big time....onto their SOs....

 

Stop being a nice, trusting, obedient spouse, ESPECIALLY since it is not being reciprocated.

 

GET reciprocation of RESPECT....or GET OUT. And often, it takes giving them the same amount of disrespect as they give you, to JOLT them to their senses.....

 

IF not, get out.

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bubbaganoosh

5 years ago were going through a tough time, but we weren't separated. I caught her having cyber sex with 2 different men. I know she never met them because I could see they lived out of state.

 

What does everyone think? What should I do?

 

Let me ask you this. What if these guys she was having cyber sex with lived maybe an hour away? Think it would just cyber sex?

 

IMO the only reason it was over the computer is because they couldn't meet in person so she gives them a preview of the real deal if they ever meet up.

 

I have to tell you that what your getting from this woman, you deserve because you refuse to stand up and be counted for. This is a total lack of respect on er part and I'm sorry to say this but IMO she's too far gone to ever respect you again unless you make some serious changes.

 

If it was me, when I saw the cyber sex, she would have been gone but you can get out from under this mess by finding an attorney and handing her divorce papers. Let her know that her bull $h!t has run it's course and you deserve better. But until you get some steel in your spine, this will continue so your the only one that can do anything about it.

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So, Grey, how long are you going to put up with this BS? From what you've said, she's got you cowed. You're afraid to slam the door shut on this because she might get angry at you. Well, I think you've got a lot worse to come. She's just warming up. Have you thought about cutting her loose to do her "thing" with all these other guys? Normally, I never counsel divorce, but in this case, I think it should definitely be considered. Either she knocks off the nonsense, or you're done. If she chooses them over you, well, that pretty well tells you where her heart is.......and it doesn't sound like it's with you. Sorry.

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There is no way on earth that these men are "friends."

 

If you have any kind of sex life with her, stop it now and get tested for STDs. cheaters don't like condoms because then they can't say it "just happened."

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