Can a child have a D-Day?

[ThatsJustHowIRoll]

Because I might have just had one.

 

Ive posted my story before somewhere...Dad had an affair with a Co worker. Ran off into the sunset. Deadbeat Dad. Left behind a shattered mother who married an abusive man and became abusive herself. Took every opportunity to tear my father down to us our whole lives, tell us ALL the things he did wrong throughout their marriage. How bad a person he was. Told me just 2 weeks ago he cheated their entire marriage, but was fuzzy on ANY of the details (couldnt tell me names, dates places)...Oh, and my mother is an established pathological liar.

 

ugh.

 

So many effing lies!

 

Found out Dad's affair was an EA, not a PA like the lies that mum told me for 27 years!!!

 

Why all the lying and gaslighting from Mum? Why paint herself to be the victim??? Why would she deliberately sabotage my perception of my father and therefore the relationship I had with him.

 

Because she is a narcissist.

 

The new discovery: Mum had an affair when I was a baby. Dad walked in on her and OM having sex in the loungeroom. The man and his girlfriend had been staying at our house for a month or so, and it had been ongoing for weeks.

 

All around the time she became pregnant with my sister. Dad believes he is hers, but was never 100%

 

Mum has said several times over the years that 'your father always questioned whether your sister was his daughter' but we had never ever heard him say that. Ever....Why would she say that?

 

Now it all starts to make sense.

 

What a waste of 27 years. What a cruel woman.

 

NOW what do I do with these new feelings...and the serious questions over my sister's paternity...she is the spitting image of my mum. Mum doesnt even know I know. Instead, she tried telling me 2 weeks ago that Dad had 'cheated their whole marriage'. When I questioned him he gave me this. In 27 years he has never spoken a bad word about her. Until this.

 

Dads EA turned PA after an attempt at reconciliation when they separated. Dad went over one day and told my mother "I ran into the OM the other day" And My mother replied with "Oh really? How is he? Whats he been up to?"

 

Dad says he walked out and resumed relationship with OW and thats when it turned PA.

 

This has changed my perception of what I thought was real.

[AlwaysGrowing]

It's best to keep NPD people at a distance. They are just much, much too toxic.

[ThatsJustHowIRoll]

It's best to keep NPD people at a distance. They are just much, much too toxic.

 

Yep - learning that one the hard way...but the extent of her lies has only come to light in the last week. God I hate Christmas

[Furious]

Because I might have just had one.

 

Ive posted my story before somewhere...Dad had an affair with a Co worker. Ran off into the sunset. Deadbeat Dad. Left behind a shattered mother who married an abusive man and became abusive herself. Took every opportunity to tear my father down to us our whole lives, tell us ALL the things he did wrong throughout their marriage. How bad a person he was. Told me just 2 weeks ago he cheated their entire marriage, but was fuzzy on ANY of the details (couldnt tell me names, dates places)...Oh, and my mother is an established pathological liar.

 

ugh.

 

So many effing lies!

 

Found out Dad's affair was an EA, not a PA like the lies that mum told me for 27 years!!!

 

Why all the lying and gaslighting from Mum? Why paint herself to be the victim??? Why would she deliberately sabotage my perception of my father and therefore the relationship I had with him.

 

Because she is a narcissist.

 

The new discovery: Mum had an affair when I was a baby. Dad walked in on her and OM having sex in the loungeroom. The man and his girlfriend had been staying at our house for a month or so, and it had been ongoing for weeks.

 

All around the time she became pregnant with my sister. Dad believes he is hers, but was never 100%

 

Mum has said several times over the years that 'your father always questioned whether your sister was his daughter' but we had never ever heard him say that. Ever....Why would she say that?

 

Now it all starts to make sense.

 

What a waste of 27 years. What a cruel woman.

 

NOW what do I do with these new feelings...and the serious questions over my sister's paternity...she is the spitting image of my mum. Mum doesnt even know I know. Instead, she tried telling me 2 weeks ago that Dad had 'cheated their whole marriage'. When I questioned him he gave me this. In 27 years he has never spoken a bad word about her. Until this.

 

Dads EA turned PA after an attempt at reconciliation when they separated. Dad went over one day and told my mother "I ran into the OM the other day" And My mother replied with "Oh really? How is he? Whats he been up to?"

 

Dad says he walked out and resumed relationship with OW and thats when it turned PA.

 

This has changed my perception of what I thought was real.

 

 

 

Dear:TJHIR

 

My heart goes out to you. I've read your posts and it's obvious both your parents have major issues and have failed you in so many ways. Your Mom has re-written history and your father left you with her instead of seeking custody and moved on "because he deserved to be happy".

 

Both your parents have failed you, but despite this you are such a kind and loving soul, who is authentic and has a beautiful soul.

 

Some of the most beautiful flowers flourish in poor soil. You can't fix or change people, you can only accept the reality of who and what they are. I'm reminded of the saying "you can choose your friends but you can't choose your family".

 

If disordered or toxic family members hurt or abuse your love, you do have the choice to distance yourself from them and the choice to be happy without their negative influence on your present and future well being.

 

It's not selfish to cut out or minimize your involvement with selfish people in your life. These types of folks drain you and limit you own happiness by sucking you into their dysfunction.

 

You had no role or choice in your childhood, but you do have a role in breaking away from negativity and embracing your own life and being happy in that life.

[AlwaysGrowing]

There really is no point in trying/looking for a deeper relationship.

 

The only relationship you can have with a NPD is one with tons of boundaries and consequences. Do not feel guilt. Protecting yourself and your own family should be your top priority. The more you put up with the inappropriateness, the more you have to deal with it. So, limit the amount and any topics during time you spend with them.

[ThatsJustHowIRoll]

Thank you for the responses. They have really helped.

 

I told my sister this morning, but did not tell her when it hsppened or about the paternity issue. It's possible mum was already pregnant. Which is gross enough on its own. Dad can't remember a lot because mum never announced her pregnancy until she was 5 months in- even to Dad. I've led her to believe it was after she was born. I feel sick. The guilt is eating me.

 

No problem limiting contact. Mum and I had a rip roaring fight on Sunday which ended with me screaming in her face that she's a liar and walking straight out the door. She had been telling people since I was 11 that I was physically abusive to her and my grandmother. Told heinous lies about her 11 year old daughter...who does that?

 

Anyways that's a post for a different forum I guess.

 

I just have all this guilt that if I hadn't started stirring up past issues then we could have lived in happy denial forever. I think when the dust settles on this, I'm going to get the blame.

[Spark1111]

Which would not be unusual for an NPD mother to do. They are highly manipulative and you are also to blame when you do not live up to how perfect they are; or victimized because it can NEVER be their fault.

 

I think distance, discussion with a good IC, and learning some coping skills to handle distancing you and your family from her personality disorder would be very, very helpful for you.

 

I sincerely hope you can afford this after the holidays.

[ThatsJustHowIRoll]

Start IC tomorrow. Thankfully the first 6 visits are covered by the public health system. The anxiety and the guilt is really kicking my ar$e right now.

 

Im going to attempt no contact, but she usually sucks me back in after a few months and I have kids that love her.

 

Should I ever confront her with what I know about the affair or is that an exercise in futility because she'll steam roll over the top of me with lies???? I have this fantasy of sending her an email telling her i know EVERYTHING.

 

Dad is being very open and forthcoming with his information, but really, is it any of my business? Should I just buck up and move on? Given the hornets nest that could be stirred up, should I just bury what I know and pretend it never happened?

[vera345]

Why do you think your mother lied to you?

Your dad had an affair. Even if it was EA it doesn't make it easy.

I know what I am talking about. My husband had an EA for 2 years, I found love letters, sexual correspondence, and he was not willing to stop.

What did your mom suppose to do? Let him continue this? Let him live with her and be emotionally attached to OW? Give OW love, support? What did your mom have left? Just sex from him when he was shattered and in love with someone else?

I know how it feels and believe me none deserves this.

I kicked my H out after 2 years of EA and unwillingness to stop. Then he goes and starts PA. Now he tells me he didn't cheat on me that he slept with OW when we were separated and that's why it doesn't matter. Really? So I was supposed just to accept him continuing his EA while living with me? And it wasn't cheating?

It just wrong when people say that EA is not really an affair. Often, it is worse than PA. I have close friends where H had a PA. It was 1 night stand, he wasn't in love with OW, and they reconciled. We didn't because when your H has an EA he is in love with OW, you as a wife being denied most important part in the marriage, emotional support, love, everything. IT hurts a lot and I see it worse that PA because of emotional de attachment from wife. He has PA now with OW and it doesn't hurt me as much as his EA did.

[ThatsJustHowIRoll]

Why do you think your mother lied to you?

Your dad had an affair. Even if it was EA it doesn't make it easy.

I know what I am talking about. My husband had an EA for 2 years, I found love letters, sexual correspondence, and he was not willing to stop.

What did your mom suppose to do? Let him continue this? Let him live with her and be emotionally attached to OW? Give OW love, support? What did your mom have left? Just sex from him when he was shattered and in love with someone else?

I know how it feels and believe me none deserves this.

I kicked my H out after 2 years of EA and unwillingness to stop. Then he goes and starts PA. Now he tells me he didn't cheat on me that he slept with OW when we were separated and that's why it doesn't matter. Really? So I was supposed just to accept him continuing his EA while living with me? And it wasn't cheating?

It just wrong when people say that EA is not really an affair. Often, it is worse than PA. I have close friends where H had a PA. It was 1 night stand, he wasn't in love with OW, and they reconciled. We didn't because when your H has an EA he is in love with OW, you as a wife being denied most important part in the marriage, emotional support, love, everything. IT hurts a lot and I see it worse that PA because of emotional de attachment from wife. He has PA now with OW and it doesn't hurt me as much as his EA did.

 

My mother has lied about everything. Its pathological. She has manipulated me and my thinking since I was 9 years old. I believe she has NPD and her behaviour towards me for the better part of 30 years has been nothing short of abusive.

 

My father is not calling it an EA...He says it was a 'friendship'...I am still asking him questions about this to determine where the truth lies in this. SO far he is being honest and forthcoming. Given my recent breakdown to him and his remorse for the life I was dealt, I am likely to believe him before my mother. ESPECIALLY given the quite obvious hypocrite that she is. I am not downplaying anything. What I can see plain as day is that their relationship was dysfunctional and its a shame they had to drag 3 innocent people (me and 2 sisters) through this sordid ugly mess.

 

But my mother HAS rewritten the family history. My father may have done the wrong thing having an affair. My issue has always been that I didnt understand why he didnt try counselling before selfishly chasing his own desires. In the last week I have discovered SO MUCH which points out that my perception of the family prior to leaving is distorted and my mother has been morally reprehensible - from having sex with OM in her husbands home while her baby was sleeping and she was potentially pregnant, showing no remorse for her actions, taking his children and disappearing for 3 days with no word because they got into an argument, just to prove she could, to telling me things which I SHOULD NEVER have to hear, such as he raped her or that he had the smallest penis she's ever seen. Her behaviour has been reprehensible and I will take his word over hers.

 

My father says he left my mother because he got sick of covering for her lies. After having her as a mother for 36 years, I can believe that. If I could divorce her I probably would too.

 

Im not excusing his affair, but I have been lied to and manipulated by HER, not HIM. We have both been robbed of an authentic relationship because of her lies. My father DID try to reconcile. He gave her the 'gift of reconciliation' when I was a baby. She abused it.

[vera345]

Ok, I re read my post and realize that maybe I am too harsh based on my experience.

However, look at this other way too.

Even if your mom had an affair with OM- it was wrong, but they reconciled after that, and it is not an excuse for your dad to have an affair. He chose to stay with her, forgive her, and yes, she had the right to be mad at his EA and it didn't excuse what he did.

 

Also, did your dad really left you? I understand he divorced your mom, but you wrote it as he left his children too. Nothing that your mom did excuses that. I could also understand her statement if this is what he did.

 

What was wrong with your mother response to your dad's statement about him meeting OM? What was she suppose to say? It proved that she didn't know what he was doing, that they were NC and I don't really see anything horrible in her response. The response does not justify him leaving.

 

Anyway, I understand that you are mad and hurt. However, I wouldn't make any decisions until I would talk to mom. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle and you don't really know if he cheated or not during their marriage. The fact that she wasn't able to give you details does not prove anything, this happened a long time ago.

 

Did your father contact you when you were growing up? The bottom line is that it doesn't really matter what happened between him and your mother, he should have not walk away on his children. This is completely different relationship and even if your mom lied about everything he should have been there for you when you grew up. I would just calm down and think about it too.

[ThatsJustHowIRoll]

Ok, I re read my post and realize that maybe I am too harsh based on my experience.

However, look at this other way too.

Even if your mom had an affair with OM- it was wrong, but they reconciled after that, and it is not an excuse for your dad to have an affair. He chose to stay with her, forgive her, and yes, she had the right to be mad at his EA and it didn't excuse what he did.

 

Also, did your dad really left you? I understand he divorced your mom, but you wrote it as he left his children too. Nothing that your mom did excuses that. I could also understand her statement if this is what he did.

 

What was wrong with your mother response to your dad's statement about him meeting OM? What was she suppose to say? It proved that she didn't know what he was doing, that they were NC and I don't really see anything horrible in her response. The response does not justify him leaving.

 

Anyway, I understand that you are mad and hurt. However, I wouldn't make any decisions until I would talk to mom. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle and you don't really know if he cheated or not during their marriage. The fact that she wasn't able to give you details does not prove anything, this happened a long time ago.

 

Did your father contact you when you were growing up? The bottom line is that it doesn't really matter what happened between him and your mother, he should have not walk away on his children. This is completely different relationship and even if your mom lied about everything he should have been there for you when you grew up. I would just calm down and think about it too.

 

Dad did contact us, but it was sporadic. No dispute over him being absent. We have tackled this issue several times over the years. I can say that initially, for a many number of years I refused to have anything to do with him because I was led to believe that he left us for the OW. I was told that he didnt want the responsibility of a wife and 3 children, but moved in with her 4 children, I was told to call him up and abuse him when my mother would get drunk - she'd dial the number for me. I refused to go to his wedding because I hated her for taking my father away. I gave up the relationship based on lies that she told me. And then she moved us to another state and changed our last name with potentially forged documents. There are many many mitigating circumstances surrounding why. There are so many lies just now coming out that has made me see that my perception of what was real was based in bull$hit. Should he have tried harder - absolutely! Im a parent. Id go to the ends of the earth, but to detail every single action taken over many years to sabotage our relationship, well, Id need to write a book.

 

This, however, is different to the issue of my mother cheating which is fresh news, and the possibility, however small, that my sister may not be his.

 

I HAVE spoken to my mother. I have her side. Ive had it for 27 years. Ive NEVER had my father's side until 2 nights ago. He never ran her down to me, although she did CONSTANTLY. Who had more to gain by lying? Who had more to lose if the truth came out? My father had nothing to gain by telling me the truth 2 nights ago. I had already crucified him for 27 years.

 

Ive done nothing but think about this situation for a long time now.

[vera345]

Well, he did leave your mom for OW and his children. He said that R failed when he met OM on the street and your mom answered wrong (Still not sure what was wrong with her answer). He went straight to OW after that.

You somehow trying to say oh it was just EA so it wasn't that bad. Often, it is worse than PA bc PA often is about sex when with EA a person is in love and it is worse form of betrayal. This is what I am trying to tell you.

[vera345]

I guess I have a problem with this way of thinking bc my H had EA for 2 years. I found tons of love letters, sexual letters, plans about their future, lies about me. On D day he told me that he is in love with OW and wants a divorce. We are married for 10 years. I never cheated and was a good wife to him, but during our marriage I found several times before where he wrote to other women on internet. It was never serious, he told me that men look at the dating site as they look at port an its okay.

 

His EA lased long time, he ignored me, blamed me for this, and wouldn't stop contacting that woman. We would try to reconcile, and then he would start contacting her again. So I finally kicked him out. He went straight to OW and it became PA.

 

He then wanted back and tried to explain to me that it wasn't really an affair because he had sex with OW while we were separated. I have big problem with this bc the only reason we separated in a first place was because he wouldn't stop EA. So I have big problem with your dad's view of the situation bc this is the same reasons my WS is telling me. I have big problem with him trying to explain why he left his family for OW. I don't see anything wrong with your mom's reaction to his question. And if he really wanted to work on his marriage, he wouldn't go straight to OW to start PA. He would stay and try to work on his marriage bc the reason why his marriage was failing apart with him and EA.

 

I understand that your mom cheated too. IT was, however, many years ago before his EA. And he chose to forgive her for that. He doesn't had a right to have an affair just bc his wife did. This was not the reason why their marriage failed and why he wasn't in contact with his children.

 

I have a daughter too, and I am doing everything so that WS have relationship with her. However, it bothers me that by your logic I can't even tell my daughter the truth why I and her dad are divorced bc people don't view EA the same as PA. Which I wrong bc its often worse. And I do believe that my WS has cheated on me and walked away on me for OW.

[AlwaysGrowing]

Unless you have lived with a NPD parent...you have no idea of the craziness you live with. Knowing....even as a child...that your parent/parents are "crazy"..and you are not wrong...no matter how many times they say it. But...you outwardly agree...and keep yourself....locked up. Knowing..what will be coming..if you openly call them out.

 

Years later...same issues...round and around and around and around. One day, you realize...your only option...is to emotionally disconnect (not that there was any real connection...just the make believe outward one)..and severe the make believe illusion.

 

The new relationship is based on strict boundaries..that you enforce..ie..if they start to get nasty...you leave. Yes, it means they get to make you out to be the bad one. You have to be able to live with that. It means..you no longer defend yourself. You simple...remove you. ie leave, hang up..etc

 

Self advocating is difficult at first, especially against a parent. They try to use guilt...and colour you as an ungrateful child. Its not true. You are simply saying through actions...as a child I did not have choice, now I do. And ....the days of you disrespecting me are OVER.

 

I know I read NPD on these threads all the time. Most often I think it is just selfishness. NPD is a whole other kettle of fish. I know..because I lived it.

 

Everything is about them. 24 hours a day. They will use their children relentlessly to feed the unsatiable beast inside them. They take twisting things to a whole other level. You can never have communication..because their view is soooo skewed. They never admit fault or say sorry..even if the pope himself showed them video proof....nope..that is not how it happened.

 

At the end of the day, it is pointless to even try. As..they would have to admit there was an issue (with them) for there to even be improvement. They will simply NEVER cede any point, any time, any where EVER.

[janedoe67]

This might be a good time to point out that this thread is about the OP's pain, not what some other poster's husband did. Her dad is not that husband, and it still doesn't excuse her mother's lying and manipulation.

[ThatsJustHowIRoll]

Thankyou for your responses Jane and ALwaysGrowing

 

Vera, I do get the feeling that you are projecting your feelings about your husband to me and you and I continue to talk around in circles. Please bear in mind that I HAVE faced my father's infidelity for 27 years. He got NO free passes on this AT ALL. I am still trying to determine what was true and the extent of the lies that have been told to me. This is all new to me.

 

My reason for posting was sorting out what I do now with this new information he has given me about MY MOTHER'S infidelity. Do I expose ALL I know to my sisters. Do I tell my mother I know? Do I make her accountable for DECADES of lies and manipulation??? She lied about me last weekend - to my face! It will never stop. Its been 35 years!!! Is this one of those times they say 'dont expose'?

 

As far as I can see there are 2 issues: Her infidelity (and thus question marks over sister's paternity) and her constant ritualistic manipulation. Perhaps the two are linked. Id say they probably are. Its only in recent years she got comfortable and must have started to believe my Dad was going to take her dirty secret to the grave. But she got cocky, told one lie to many and now, her secret is out.

 

I had my first counselling session today, and Counselor has told me complete no contact at least for the next few weeks until another IC appointment and then we can start some real work. I am not in a position to be able to have a normal adult conversation with a women who is hell bent on hating me for breathing. The guilt and anxiety is kicking my ar$e right now because its her birthday tomorrow and I was supposed to go to her party today. Which now I'm not, thus reaffirming her claims that I am a horrible daughter who 'beats down on her' and tries to bring her down.

 

The only relevance of my Dad's 'affair' (which I know nothing of, except for the rantings of a known pathological liar) is that it was made to be MORE than what it was, if it was even an affair AT ALL. I dont even know that much, so calling me out for saying one is worse than the other (which I didnt) is unfair. Im here for support, not to be berated over issues around which are still very much up in the air right now. And well, if I learn that I have made decision regarding our relationship based on lies and manipulation, I will have a great deal of regret.

 

AlwaysGrowing - your last post really resonates with me. I found a website the other day which outlined 24 'things' a NPD mother will do to her daughter and my mother checked off about 20 of these. I barely knew anything about it before, and now, everything just makes so much more sense now. And Im starting to understand - Im not crazy! What a relief!

Edited December 21, 2013 by ThatsJustHowIRoll