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"What we did was not planned"


NotCamelot

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Yep, that is what my W told me on D-day. "What we did was not planned. I never intended for that to happen." (Give me a F**king break! The remote hotel, the sexy lacy (rarely worn) underwear, etc........and then say it was not planned?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?)

 

So many times I read/hear the WS say "It just happened", etc.....

 

I would like to hear from some WS's. Can you explain how you had sex with someone NOT your spouse and did NOT intend for it to happen? I guess my thinking is that you know that you are married. You know that you made vows to never do that. You know that it is wrong. So did you have sex with someone not your spouse without intention? Why couldn't you say NO???

 

Just the planning and lies that go into having the A show intent........right??? I mean you don't meet someone of the opposite sex, privately, without some intention.....??

 

Maybe that statement is the biggest lie of them all. I understand the self-protection feeling, but, please, the BS is not stupid.

 

Maybe I am wrong......tell me.

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Not a WS, but I think when they say it they mean that before they got caught up in the thrill of the affair and lost all rational thinking....they never intended to have an affair.

 

By far, the majority of WS if asked the day before they strayed, "Would you ever cheat on your spouses?" would have responded with an emphatic no.

 

But the affair starts with one little step after another until the next step seems "logical" in a twisted way. So the "planning" to meet with lacy underwar and all in a motel room seems unplanned to the WS when woken up from the affair trance.

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IMO, when a WS says "it just happened", that makes it worse. Because it tells me that it can "just happen" again no matter how much they say they will never do it again.....cuz it "just happens"

 

I agree.

 

I would want to know WHY it happened, what led up to it happening, what I can do to aid in keeping it from happening, and most importantly....what will the WS do to keep it from happening.

 

Crossing the line is the most difficult the first time. After that, it is much easier. Not knowing why or rather not acknowledging why will make it easier to pretend that it is "out of my control."

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Betterthanthis13

I don't think anyone with a basically strong foundation ever plans to have a lapse in judgment and make choices that they will regret. Who would plan on that? I don't plan on doing stupid things, but sometimes I do. So I've never made the choice to cheat... Whatever, I've done other regrettable things. Those people made mistakes, and pay for them dearly by beating themselves up for it afterwards and doing everything in their power to repair the damage caused by their unfortunate choices, even when it is difficult, embarrassing, etc

 

If a person lacked any sort of integrity or courage to begin with (my xbf for example) then who knows if they "didn't mean for it to happen".... They are not any more emotionally healthy after DDay than they were before, so the answer doesn't lie in why they made the choices they did or why they had a lapse in judgement, the answer is that they never had good judgement to begin with. No ability to prioritize their life, the facade they were putting on was inevitably going to come crashing down at some point but they were too weak and damaged to do anything about it, and aren't about to start now.

 

The problem is, both types of people say the same things. The same words are used, things like "it just happened".....At least at first until they do some introspection and analyze the whys of the choices they made. So it's necessary to observe the WS's actions after Dday to determine if you have A or B on your hands, if your intent/desire is to forgive, understand and reconcile. If A, then R is possible. If B, run.

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Betterthanthis13
I agree.

 

I would want to know WHY it happened, what led up to it happening, what I can do to aid in keeping it from happening, and most importantly....what will the WS do to keep it from happening.

 

Crossing the line is the most difficult the first time. After that, it is much easier. Not knowing why or rather not acknowledging why will make it easier to pretend that it is "out of my control."

 

I think some people do not have the ability to ever know why they did it. For others, it is embarrassing and uncomfortable to acknowledge the "why", but they can get there.

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bubbaganoosh
Yep, that is what my W told me on D-day. "What we did was not planned. I never intended for that to happen." (Give me a F**king break! The remote hotel, the sexy lacy (rarely worn) underwear, etc........and then say it was not planned?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?)

 

So many times I read/hear the WS say "It just happened", etc.....

 

I would like to hear from some WS's. Can you explain how you had sex with someone NOT your spouse and did NOT intend for it to happen? I guess my thinking is that you know that you are married. You know that you made vows to never do that. You know that it is wrong. So did you have sex with someone not your spouse without intention? Why couldn't you say NO???

 

Just the planning and lies that go into having the A show intent........right??? I mean you don't meet someone of the opposite sex, privately, without some intention.....??

 

Maybe that statement is the biggest lie of them all. I understand the self-protection feeling, but, please, the BS is not stupid.

 

Maybe I am wrong......tell me.

 

You answered your own question. She knows right from wrong, good from bad. There's always that first baby step when it comes to cheating. They know it's wrong and the warning sign is right in front of them and they ignore it. Then the second step and the warning sign is bigger and the wording on the red flag is bolder. This continues right up to when they end up at the Lusty Smut Motel and the warning sign (red flag) is huge and it reads, "DO NOT CROSS THIS LINE BECAUSE IF YOU DO, YOU CAN'T GO BACK" and they ignore it. Then after the deed is done, they sit back and think to themselves, "My god what have I just done" and it's too late. You can't take it back and you now own it forever. It's called not thinking.

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AlwaysGrowing

Crossing the line is the most difficult the first time. After that, it is much easier. Not knowing why or rather not acknowledging why will make it easier to pretend that it is "out of my control."

 

We often get caught up in the "final" act to cheat. The answer does not often lie there. It is in the first boundary that one stepped over.

 

The first time you use mental gymnastics to override a boundary, belief, value that you hold, it is now in your toolbox to use over and over and over again.

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Betterthanthis13
Oh they know "why" they did it. They just don't to admit it.

 

Saying the don't know why or "it just happened" is a load of crap cop out, or said in an attempt to spare the BS feelings.

 

Hmm. Probably true most of the time, although I do think that people can be in a state of denial or lying to themselves, at least until they start thinking again. Maybe it's on purpose, maybe not. Isn't that what they describe as affair fog? I didn't think that phenomenon was even real until i read some things here, but I'm still not sure what to think about that concept.

 

I know xbf knew about the simple reasons why he did what he did. (Sex, excitement, habit, insecurity, self-loathing, etc) he even knew how to say the words "need for external validation" But he could not carry on a conversation about anything, he was just repeating things other people had said. and by every conversation we had, it was obvious that he didn't really understand what the hell he was talking about, nor did he have any interest in understanding, so he had to go.

 

He was just parroting what his therapist said and what he heard in SAA. He had no intention of understanding any of it. He just wanted to prove that he was "trying", smooth things over and resume business as usual. He actually never said "it just happened", come to think of it. He (after being presented with irrefutable evidence) was willing to discuss his justifications and rationalizations. It was just all being faked in his particular case. So my view may be skewed :)

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I think they like to believe that as it gives them permission to be swept away with the romantic fantasy of their very poor choices.

 

And they tell each other that often, as it does have a somewhat fated quality...sigh...and they can go on believing that they are essentially good people. While they destroy their lives and the lives of others.

 

In MC, we dissected, step by step the progression from friendship to attraction, to emailing and texting, to first emotional and then physical contact.

 

THOUSANDS of steps to enjoy, fuel, and then keep secret. Secrecy is the beginning of the great fall.

 

It NEVER JUST HAPPENS.

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Maybe I should have been a little more specific. I am referring to the actual sex act....

 

I can understand not planning to have the A. I don't think most people plan that.....though some do.

 

But after that....... how can the WS say they did not plan sex when they did indeed plan the hotel, plan the "special" clothing, day, time, both take time off work, etc...... and then look at the BS with a straight face and say sex was not planned.

 

That's what I don't understand. Why couldn't they look at us and say, "yes, it got to the point where I wanted to f*** him/her because..........love/lust/etc."

 

Wouldn't that be easier to get past than telling us it just happened?

 

 

When they go to the trouble to make all those plans, I think it is unquestionable that at least one of them planned sex, and the other agreed and/or helped plan it as well.

 

Last year, when I asked my W why they went to a hotel IF sex was not planned, she looked away and said: "you have to have somewhere to meet somebody". What was wrong with a restaurant, store, library, hospital, etc.???

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My instinctual response to the "I didn't plan it" line is this:

 

so what?

 

The man who gets drunk and then drives home doesn't "plan" to kill anyone, but when he drifts over the line and hits someone head on and they die.....they are still dead. And it is because of his choice to drink and drive.

 

When c child picks up something fragile they know they are not to touch and it breaks, they didn't "mean" to break it, but it is still broken.

 

I can say that in the fall several years ago I did not ever plan to have sex with another man. But I did plan to go out with a group of questionable new friends (of which he was one). I did plan to respond to his flirty emails. I did plan to attend a work party without my spouse so I could flirt more. All those small "plans" broke down wall after wall and hardened my conscience more and more.

 

And in the end, whether I "planned" to betray my marriage vows is irrelevant. What is relevant is that I DID.

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I think by the time the sex happened, so many lines are crossed that the sexual intercourse seems such a small step.

 

The first kiss is the biggest step probably in a physical way. And then the first touch in an intimate way. Soon it is natural to let that first article of clothing come off. And then it is just not "right" to tease him/her that way. Soon the nakedness is so comfortable that sex becomes "natural."

 

All along the way, the mind is screaming, "Stop!" but the body covers the ears because of all the thrilling feelings. The mind quits and the body takes over.

 

It is like the first shot of the forbidden drug. At first you know what can happen, but you load the needle. Your mind is telling you that this could ruin you as you put the needle into your arm. But then the feelings engulf your mind and body as the drug runs through your veins. The only important thing at that point is to keep that high going as long as possible.

 

If it helps, women (more so than men) have sex with the AP because they want to keep them emotionally. It is not so much that they want them sexually but that they want them to be happy and stay with them. I think men tend to tell women what they want to hear so that they can get as much physical excitement as possible.

 

IMO.

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Why do you remain with a woman who would say these things. Either she thinks you are a total moron or she is. Either way you can do better.

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AlwaysGrowing

It boils down to rudimentary affair thinking.

 

If one believes that they have no other choice, as in... destiny..., it just happened...well it alleviates culpability. Its harder to tell yourself the truth....that you did plan it (obviously)...and you are doing something wrong.We all have an inherent need to have a positive view of ourselves. So we hide, we hide behind what is easiest to believe...and hey...isn't " it just happened" just so handy...and "destiny"....even better.

 

For every lie a cheater tells their spouse...they tell themselves two.

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Yep, that is what my W told me on D-day. "What we did was not planned. I never intended for that to happen." (Give me a F**king break! The remote hotel, the sexy lacy (rarely worn) underwear, etc........and then say it was not planned?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?)

 

 

 

And, did you tell your WW if it was not planned why did she go to a room with the OM wearing sexy underwear that she never wore for you?

 

And, what was her response?

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Betrayed&Stayed

I had this heated discussion with my wife on more than one occasion. At the time she had the "I thought we could be 'just friends'" stance on her affair. I called her out on the bs.

 

I was single for a long time and played the field. I know how two people who are attracted to each other feel and respond. Before any relationship is consummated, both parties are well aware of the mutual attraction before hand. Even in the case of ONSs, both parties have a connection before they're groping each other.

 

My wife held tightly to the stance that she didn't plan on having sex with OM when she was inviting him over to our house on evenings when I was out of town (Seriously??). My point was that some sexual tension existed well before hand. Affair sex is not spontaneous; it is planned. There is a lot of denial involved, but both people are aware of the possibility of sex before sex happens.

 

Along the way there are many, many red flags ignored. Small boundaries are crossed. It is a slow fade from black/white to gray to a green light.

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And, did you tell your WW if it was not planned why did she go to a room with the OM wearing sexy underwear that she never wore for you?

 

And, what was her response?

 

Best I remember from last year, her response was "That was the only thing I had clean that day." Of course, it was a lie. She knew that I knew she was lying. She just did not want to admit it at the time.

 

Of course the top and bottom were both promptly destroyed by me.....with no word except: "Good, I was going to do the same thing." And I really believe her. She is very ashamed and remorseful - still.

 

She did buy the stuff for me. Just wasn't the kind of stuff she'd wear except on special times. Definitely not daily wear items.......

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We really don't talk about it anymore. I just see that comment here on LS a LOT. So the question went through my head this morning - so I posted it here.

 

It still hurts, as I know the truth. But, it's a lot better- now 17 months past.

 

I just wondered what the other WS's comments would be.

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AlwaysGrowing
I had this heated discussion with my wife on more than one occasion. At the time she had the "I thought we could be 'just friends'" stance on her affair. I called her out on the bs.

 

I was single for a long time and played the field. I know how two people who are attracted to each other feel and respond. Before any relationship is consummated, both parties are well aware of the mutual attraction before hand. Even in the case of ONSs, both parties have a connection before they're groping each other.

 

My wife held tightly to the stance that she didn't plan on having sex with OM when she was inviting him over to our house on evenings when I was out of town (Seriously??). My point was that some sexual tension existed well before hand. Affair sex is not spontaneous; it is planned. There is a lot of denial involved, but both people are aware of the possibility of sex before sex happens.

 

Along the way there are many, many red flags ignored. Small boundaries are crossed. It is a slow fade from black/white to gray to a green light.

 

 

And as a single person, there is no moral/ethic dilemma for you to process, you are not doing anything wrong. You don't need to lie about your motivations for being there. In the case of cheating, to openly admit that you are making a choice to cheat is too much for our sense of self to handle, so we sugar coat it...and believe its destiny, everything happens for a reason, i/we didn't plan it. We remove our culpability.

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whichwayisup

An A is planned. It takes effort. Fact.

 

A ONS can just happen, yes a thought still has to happen but it isn't "planned" out like having an A.

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No offense, J, but that sounds like a conplete lack of self control and something out of a harlequin romance.

 

Hmmm... To be honest I remember thinking sex with my xMM reminded me of sex scenes out of harlequinns.

 

I guess it does, doesn't it, but it doesn't make the feeling at the time any less real. That it sounds like lack of self control is probably true but in the mind of the WS that's the feeling.

 

"It just happened" doesn't really ring with me, either. I know that before anything ever happened, I indulged my mind and thought about all the things that may lay ahead.

 

I let my emotions get the better of me, but I didn't realise what happening for the longest time. Then I got swept up in the emotion of it all, but critically, we both knew what we were doing was wrong, yet we went there anyway.

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here is what my H said after DDay: I had to go on a business trip to gather financial backing for a big project and that was her field of expertise.

 

HA! In her dreams!

 

I had to send a gift and she was helpful in advising me!

 

Ha! In HIS dreams. Another reason to engage in sexually, tension-fueled, mindless dialogue. It was a plant with a banner that read "good luck!"

 

I asked her to join me for this meeting 2 hours away. It started to storm and the roads were bad and we needed to get a hotel room. We had too much to drink and it just happened. :rolleyes:

 

Reality: So why did you spend 40 minutes finding a hotel room BEFORE the reception that served alcohol? (Cell phone bills, folks. They don't lie!)

 

Who brought the condoms? she did. Doubt that. BUT it WAS mutually intended and anticipated.

 

The next morning, when you spent 16 minutes on the phone with me ( the longest call we would share for over the next year!) I asked, what was she doing? was she upstairs showering? What did you tell her you were doing in the parking lot? Did she know you were talking to me?

 

Deer in the headlights scared stare...His third, fourth, lie to me?...His FIRST lie to her. Probably told her he needs to return some work related call.

 

It would set the stage for the next year; Lies, lies and more lies to two women...for the next year.

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compulsivedancer
I think some people do not have the ability to ever know why they did it. For others, it is embarrassing and uncomfortable to acknowledge the "why", but they can get there.

 

Or there are so many factors that it's incredibly difficult to explain (and at some level, unexplainable).

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compulsivedancer
Crossing the line is the most difficult the first time. After that, it is much easier. Not knowing why or rather not acknowledging why will make it easier to pretend that it is "out of my control."

 

We often get caught up in the "final" act to cheat. The answer does not often lie there. It is in the first boundary that one stepped over.

 

The first time you use mental gymnastics to override a boundary, belief, value that you hold, it is now in your toolbox to use over and over and over again.

 

H counts my A from the first time OM put his arm around me. And actually, that probably WAS one of the biggest lines we crossed, even if it seemed somewhat excusable at the time.

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