How can you love someone and cheat at the same time?

[James-London]

Hi guys,

 

I just have an issue that I have been grappling with and would be grateful for your thoughts. In brief, I was going out with my ex-GF for 1 year and found out 6 weeks ago that she was cheating. The truth has slowly emerged over the last few weeks and she has told plenty of lies to cover herself. My current understanding is that the affair was both a PA and EA, and it was a casual arrangement that has been going on since she met him about 2 months into our relationship.

 

Please note, I have left already about 2 weeks ago, and I do not intend to turn back. I am doing NC and have no intention of changing that course.

 

So my question now is - how is it possible that someone can love you and still cheat? Looking back on our year together, I can remember many times when she expressed real care and affection for me. Our sex life was active and we were even planning a holiday together. It is true that the relationship was pretty stagnant for most of the year, but it had really picked up in the last 2 or 3 months before I found out about the affair.

 

Please could you let me know if you think this is possible to love someone and cheat, in principle?

 

In my specific case, my ex-GF spoke often about how she felt "lonely with me" and how I didn't have enough time for her. However, she still cheated in the last 3 months when things were better with us, so I think that is just an excuse. I believe she had some sexual/romantic attraction to the OM all along, so she would have probably cheated anyway. It seems the only reason she stayed was that I made her feel "safe and secure", while the OM was clear that she was just a friend who also wanted for a bit of fun.

 

Given the above, maybe she didn't love me but was just scared of losing me as an emotional security blanket. Or maybe the love was real on some level? I'm kind of pulling my hair out with this one.

 

Perhaps this doesn't really matter for any practical purpose given that we are finished anyway. But I do still want to know what was real in the last year of my life with her?.... Also, even though I could never forgive her betrayal, I still find myself missing her.... Any tips please?

 

Many Thanks!

[Philosoraptor]

What she shows are traits of need, not love. Love does not "need", as a need is something you can not control. Love is a "want", it's being able to make the choice through all circumstances to be with someone and to put them, and your relationship's happiness and well being, first.

 

Onto missing her: she was a part of your life for a long time. You may miss some of the good points, but you must also remember that they were just a piece of her. The whole person, cheating and all, was not good for you.

[AlwaysGrowing]

To cheat so early in a relationship suggests deep emotional immaturity, lack of Self Respect, need for constant external validation.

 

There are people in the world that look to others to validate them 24-7, marching bands, unicorns, three ring circus. No one can sustain being that. So the cheater blames the other person for not being something that wasnt ever attainable/realistic to begin with. Because to blame oneself, is too hard.

[tbf]

When self-love (narcissism) trumps the external love of others, that's when people cheat. Any other reason is a rationalization for cheating which is an emotionally dysfunctional form of coping behaviour.

[drifter777]

I don't believe a person can cheat on someone they truly love. From the time they begin hunting for their fu** buddy they have fallen out of love with their SO whether its a ONS or becomes an ongoing affair. "In love" implies a level of respect that a person couldn't violate by screwing another. Their feelings might change sometime in the future, but not while they are actively cheating.

[Betterthanthis13]

Hi guys,

 

I just have an issue that I have been grappling with and would be grateful for your thoughts. In brief, I was going out with my ex-GF for 1 year and found out 6 weeks ago that she was cheating. The truth has slowly emerged over the last few weeks and she has told plenty of lies to cover herself. My current understanding is that the affair was both a PA and EA, and it was a casual arrangement that has been going on since she met him about 2 months into our relationship.

 

Please note, I have left already about 2 weeks ago, and I do not intend to turn back. I am doing NC and have no intention of changing that course.

 

So my question now is - how is it possible that someone can love you and still cheat? Looking back on our year together, I can remember many times when she expressed real care and affection for me. Our sex life was active and we were even planning a holiday together. It is true that the relationship was pretty stagnant for most of the year, but it had really picked up in the last 2 or 3 months before I found out about the affair.

 

Please could you let me know if you think this is possible to love someone and cheat, in principle?

 

In my specific case, my ex-GF spoke often about how she felt "lonely with me" and how I didn't have enough time for her. However, she still cheated in the last 3 months when things were better with us, so I think that is just an excuse. I believe she had some sexual/romantic attraction to the OM all along, so she would have probably cheated anyway. It seems the only reason she stayed was that I made her feel "safe and secure", while the OM was clear that she was just a friend who also wanted for a bit of fun.

 

Given the above, maybe she didn't love me but was just scared of losing me as an emotional security blanket. Or maybe the love was real on some level? I'm kind of pulling my hair out with this one.

 

Perhaps this doesn't really matter for any practical purpose given that we are finished anyway. But I do still want to know what was real in the last year of my life with her?.... Also, even though I could never forgive her betrayal, I still find myself missing her.... Any tips please?

 

Many Thanks!

In theory, I would think that your ex girlfriend was simply not emotionally healthy enough to truly love anyone the entire time you have known her. Did she care about you? Yes, which is why she could act in ways that made you think she loved you. However--Caring is not love.

She was probably emotionally unhealthy and incapable of loving you all along. She probably wanted to love you, and had pieces of it down pat, but was not fully qualified nor capable. So that might be why it is so confusing. You are assuming she was able to love in the first place- was she really, in the way that you define love?

[harrybrown]

You ask a very good question, and I do not know the answer. There are a few former wayward spouses that could give you an answer, like compulsive dancer and coolit.

[carhill]

How can you love someone and cheat at the same time?

 

Some people compartmentalize better than others.

 

As an example, the young lady could have very well loved you in a way which was meaningful to her and loved the other party in a different way which was also meaningful to her. Each 'love you' box is discrete and separate from others.

 

I was first introduced to this by MW's a few decades ago. It was a difficult concept to grasp at first but, after taking some psychology courses in college, it began to make more sense.

 

The 'cheating' part is social lubrication. Path of least resistance. A method to get one's needs/wants met with a minimum of current negative energy experienced. 'What they don't know won't hurt them'.....stuff like that. That dynamic also occupies a box of its own.

 

One potential 'how' of billions, as each of us are different and unique.

[lionoftheforum]

It seems the only reason she stayed was that I made her feel "safe and secure", while the OM was clear that she was just a friend who also wanted for a bit of fun.

 

Given the above, maybe she didn't love me but was just scared of losing me as an emotional security blanket.

 

This.

 

You picked up the signs. I’m wondering why you didn’t move in a different direction? Was it convenient for you? Keep in mind sometimes its better to have something rather than nothing. That includes relationships. This seems to be a case of someone who likes being around others, IE they cant handle being by themselves, but will always jump if the grass is greener somewhere else. In your eyes it was a cheat. In her eyes you might have been convenient until the next jumping opportunity came along.

 

Please don’t take it personally. I know the feeling. I’ve dealt with this type of person before.

[James-London]

thanks guys. the majority view seems to be that you can't truly love someone and also cheat at the same time. I have read the reasons given by WW on this forum and elsewhere. The main reasons are: feeling lonely/unappreciated, lack of emotional connection and feeling bored.

 

Maybe my ex felt a bit of all of these things and wanted a "quick fix" that I would never find out. However, I don't think she could have truly loved me at the same time, because REAL love is a "want" to put your partner first through all circumstances, as Philosoraptor says above.

 

One more bit that I didn't mention before. My ex is 30 (I'm 32) and she grew up in Poland with an alcoholic and violent father. Because of her childhood she tells me that she never learnt to express her emotions properly. The material I have read suggests that children of these families grow up with deep fears of abandonment, and will probably stay in relationships even when they are not right....

 

I guess that is where the emotional immaturity part comes from.

 

When I miss her, it is useful to remind myself that I never really lost anything, because I never actually had her in the first place. She was either spending time with or thinking about this other guy for almost the entire relationship.... that includes all the times we went to the park, went to the cinema, romantic meals, stayed in bed talking until the afternoon etc.... I accept the logic of what everyone says, but it still feels REALLY WIERD that she could do all this and not love me.... but I guess that is what I have to learn to accept.

[James-London]

one more thing - she only told me about her past AFTER I found out about her infidelities. We spent our entire relationship where she would not open herself up to me emotionally about anything - her past, her present feeling, her future dreams/plans. It really was a ridiculous relationship looking back!

 

In her final email to me, she said that she was going for some group therapy. I guess that means that she at least recognises she has a very serious problem and is not just blaming me for everything anymore....

[NotCamelot]

I can give you the point of view from both sides. I have been both a WS and a BS.

 

When I was in an EA, I still loved my W very much. I did not like her. Things had changed and she would not listen when I tried to tell her what bothered me. When I brought it up, she got really defensive and everything was my fault. It was a one-way conversation with me trying to talk while being yelled at. Man, I still loved her, but I did not want to be there. And, of course, my OW was just the opposite.

 

After the A my W was in ended, she told me "I never stopped loving you", "I always loved you". "I thought you did not love me."

 

And I really don't want to get myself all triggered off into depression with the deatails. But, I know it is a fact from my side ---- and I believe her as well......as least regarding this fact.

[Furious]

"Love" is a misused word. There's a difference to being in love and being loving.

 

Have you ever seen a dog chasing it's tail. For some people "love" is defined by the early heady stage of romance. They believe love should always feel that way.

 

True love is deeper, true love is a combination of love, respect and integrity.

 

On my d-day when I handed my husband his suitcase and wished him well, he kept insisting that he loved me. I told him I didn't want his type of love.

 

The meaning of "love", is subjective. Ironically, naively, people tend to believe it's meaning is the same for everyone and that's where it can be so confusing for those who understand it's true meaning.

[James-London]

thanks for your post. Maybe you can really love someone and cheat then. Perhaps it is just that people are just fallible and make decisions they regret, like in all aspects of life. Perhaps when people are not getting their needs met, they can end up hurting the people they really love.... I know my ex was really not getting her needs met by me, and she did not have emotional maturity to talk it through with me.

 

Or maybe she was just cruel and manipulative. Maybe she just used me as the emotional safety while she fantasised about a future with the OM.... I don't feel much closer to an answer anymore...

[Grumpybutfun]

James:

When you are speaking of a relationship with a woman who was abused as a child the dynamics change drastically. Abandonment, fear, neglect, emotional abuse, verbal abuse and possibly physical abuse change a person's brain imprint. They see things through a dark lens or a distorted one. They do not understand boundaries or healthy emotional responses. Unfortunately, in this case, your gf may have believed that she loved you and just didn't have any idea what love really looks like. Sociological, Anthropological and Biological aspects of love are all differing because of how they are viewed by the collective, then individually. I have counted eight different ways people define love based on this thread alone. There are probably hundreds.

Love is only an emotion when it applies to how the other person treats you...in other words, having an affair to me demolishes any semblance of love since love makes you want to protect the other from ALL harm, including betrayal, sadness, deceit, invalidation, anger and regret.

Best of luck in moving forward. Love will be the thing that is easy and safe because of how hard you and your lover work to keep it strong.

Grumps

[James-London]

Well, the thing is, Grumps, she did try to protect me from all harm from her affair by hiding it from me. She never thought I could find out but I managed to get the evidence in the end.

 

In practice I know I will never forgive her or trust her again, so I need to just get over this.... I just really wanted to know if she did love me but was just feeling really unhappy/lonely and made some mistakes, or if she was just using me for all the affection and support I gave her.

 

I am more inclined to believe she didn't love me because it happened over such a long period and she did have feelings for this other guy too.... also, she has hardly been begging to get me back and promise to reform herself. If I was so important, she would have done that, I guess.

[tbf]

Well, the thing is, Grumps, she did try to protect me from all harm from her affair by hiding it from me.

This has nothing to do with your welfare and more to do with providing her the space to juggle men. Don't be naive.

[Grumpybutfun]

James:

Please forgive me for being gauche, but she sure as hell was not protecting you...she was protecting herself from being caught. Anyone who has an affair, long term sexual hook-ups or a one night stand with someone outside their relationship know there is a chance of being caught. Everyone or they wouldn't hide it or lie about it.

She doesn't have what she needs emotionally to form healthy attachments. If she was Polyamorous she should have told you and you both agreed to multiple love partners, but she chose to let you believe you were exclusive, therefore she knew what she was doing was wrong. I believe some things are fluid like lust, opinions and preferences, but love is not one of those things. Love is steadfast because it is a choice you want to make due to the respect and amount of care you put into the other person. I know it hurts to think she may not have loved you, but the other way to look at this is that you now are free to find someone who will respect boundaries and treat you with the consideration and real love that you deserve.

In support,

Grumps

[ladydesigner]

I have not read this thread but I have answered this question before. My belief is that they do not love the spouse during the A. I was treated horribly and so were our kids. It was not love nor will I call it that. My WH on the other hand thinks he did love me during his A.

[Betterthanthis13]

thanks for your post. Maybe you can really love someone and cheat then. Perhaps it is just that people are just fallible and make decisions they regret, like in all aspects of life. Perhaps when people are not getting their needs met, they can end up hurting the people they really love.... I know my ex was really not getting her needs met by me, and she did not have emotional maturity to talk it through with me.

 

Or maybe she was just cruel and manipulative. Maybe she just used me as the emotional safety while she fantasised about a future with the OM.... I don't feel much closer to an answer anymore...

 

The thing I think you should focus on is that your xGF was cheating on you from basically the beginning. She was not faithful for years and years before any of this happened. That is similar to my xbf, but very different from many of the posters on LS who were in long term faithful marriages prior to the infidelity. That is sort of a game changer, along with what you said about the abuse she experienced as a child, and all of her communication issues, not able to express her needs, etc. I think it is great that she is going for counseling now, but she has a lot of work to do.

 

It's one thing to be in a relationship or marriage for a long time that is healthy and loving, and then marriage issues start to fester, and then one spouse makes the choice to have an affair. That is like almost a different thing alltogether from a person who enters in to a relationship, is never faithful from the start, and fakes it the whole time.

[James-London]

I agree. she met this OM at a party 6 weeks into our relationship at the end of July 2012. I saw them flirting in front of me. they were then emailing on FB for a few weeks in August and met once. then met again in October and then started dating and having sex in November/December.... he went travelling for 3 months, but she met him again as soon as he got back in March!!

 

if she was serious about me, she would have cut him out after sleeping with him before Christmas.... She has basically been seeing him on and off each month since he got back. I don't know if she called him everyday, once a week, twice a month or anything. maybe he had more sex with her than I did?? a few weeks back I wanted to see her telephone records but now I don't really care anymore.

 

I guess we will never know if she really loved me or not. it is a strange kind of love if she did. all I know for sure is how she treated me... and she did not behave like someone with any commitment or respect for me. at that point the question about love becomes less important I suppose.

[pteromom]

 

I guess we will never know if she really loved me or not. it is a strange kind of love if she did. all I know for sure is how she treated me... and she did not behave like someone with any commitment or respect for me. at that point the question about love becomes less important I suppose.

 

As another poster noted, she never really learned how to love. My guess is she loved you as she knew how, but if she was never taught respect, how would she know how to give it?

 

I am sure there are tons of mental and emotional issues on her part that play into her having this affair. Fear of abandonment. Fear of being truly vulnerable. Selfishness. Proof that she is in control of her life.

 

Who knows - but she is not capable of monogamy without some pretty intensive therapy. And if she's willing to try that, it is up to you whether you want to invest in trying or not.

[JourneyLady]

I can give you the point of view from both sides. I have been both a WS and a BS.

 

When I was in an EA, I still loved my W very much. I did not like her. Things had changed and she would not listen when I tried to tell her what bothered me. When I brought it up, she got really defensive and everything was my fault. It was a one-way conversation with me trying to talk while being yelled at. Man, I still loved her, but I did not want to be there. And, of course, my OW was just the opposite.

 

After the A my W was in ended, she told me "I never stopped loving you", "I always loved you". "I thought you did not love me."

 

And I really don't want to get myself all triggered off into depression with the deatails. But, I know it is a fact from my side ---- and I believe her as well......as least regarding this fact.

 

Sort of strange because I too have been on both sides - the difference between he and I is that I was honest about what was going on and he knew about it. I guess he had a revenge affair that turned into love.

 

From my side, the affair (online) was a bad way of coping with depression. I expressed that I was lonely and in need of attention (and more sex) and in response, he just stayed wrapped up in his work. The kids had left home and I was too dependant and wasn't driving, so I had not much of an outlet for socializing. I asked him to bring co-workers home to socialize sometime, but he wouldn't even do that. (This is NO EXCUSE, by the way, I am just painting the picture of the situation.)

 

The online guy was wayyyy too old for me and not marriage material and also was halfway around the world. He coached me into doing "stuff" and as well coached me into furthering what was merely a hobby into a profession (Writing). He gave me compliments, attention and was wildly entertaining and very open with his emotions... all things my husband at the time was not. I loved my husband but he kept choosing to hold back parts of himself and I couldn't prove it, but I could feel it. I feared he did not love me. I was insecure with him but did not want to leave him, so yes, I filled my time during the day with conversation and etc. with this other man.

 

So I would say as above, that it is often a combination of bad coping skills, lack of boundaries and getting one's needs met (I suppose at the expense of another, but I don't feel I gave him any less attention because of the online affair... more that I poured myself into my writing and perhaps the relationship suffered because of that. So he went and had his own affair. He though he was just "being friends" but his AP had other ideas...

 

Truth is, I probably love him more now than I ever did then. Partly because I have changed much about myself and partly because by now, I have been in his shoes and seeing what he had to put up with from me (only 10 times worse), he has earned my respect in a way that deepens what I feel. But there is no going back as his AP "got him" in the end. I think she is more like the Stepford wife he would be more comfortable with... not someone like me who gets afflicted by depression now and again.

 

So yes, you can love someone and have an affair. Sometimes it's when you think they won't leave you because of it. I felt I was too much "bother" to him and felt if I got my needs met elsewhere, I wouldn't feel so much like a PITA to him.

 

In the end, he loved his AP much more than he ever loved me, because he made sacrifices for her he wouldn't have dreamed of doing for me.... I do know he did love me because he put up with so much for so long.

 

I am, of course, repentant, but it makes no difference except that I have learned better boundaries and have not and will not go outside a relationship to get my needs met anymore.

[JourneyLady]

I am more inclined to believe she didn't love me because it happened over such a long period and she did have feelings for this other guy too.... also, she has hardly been begging to get me back and promise to reform herself. If I was so important, she would have done that, I guess.

 

I wouldn't ask my ex-husband directly either. Being rejected once is bad enough. Asking for another (since I have depression) is out of the question. She probably thinks if you loved her, she would not have been lonely in the relationship. It did sound from your description like she let you know that.

[RavenWolf]

When self-love (narcissism) trumps the external love of others, that's when people cheat. Any other reason is a rationalization for cheating which is an emotionally dysfunctional form of coping behaviour.

 

I agree with this. My soon to be ex husband falls into the narcissism realm completely.

 

I actually don't think his type can love anyone at all, other than himself.

 

I know I can't wrap my mind around someone saying they love their spouse or partner and then cheating on them. My opinion is, if you are that unfulfilled or unhappy, leave. It is beyond mean to cheat and cause such intense emotional pain on the unsuspecting partner.