Parents Happiness VS Childrens Happiness

[alexandria35]

Hey I rarely start threads here because..well I'm not a BS, in fact I'm not married and I have never been involved in an affair. I found this forum when a good friend of mine was devastated by her husbands affair.

 

So usually I have no need to pose questions but there has been something kind of bugging me lately and I am hoping to get others opinions on this.

 

There seems to be a lot of parents who feel that their kids just want them to be happy. Their reasoning is that if they are happy (Parents) then they will be better parents thereby making their kids happy.

 

Okay I get the reasoning behind this, I really do. Obviousy a miserable mother or father is not going to be the best parent. But I'm wondering what the limits are on this philosophy. Say for example I was married with children. I become miserable in my marriage so I decide to leave my spouse. I expect that this will make me happy and so my kids should also be happy with my new found happiness. After my marriage ends I decide to quit a high paying job to go back to school full time because I'm not happy in my job anymore and I think a career change will seriously improve my level of happiness. This will mean a drastic drop in household income and my kids will feel it. They won't be able to participate in their team sports anymore or have a summer vacation, but that's okay because my kids just want me to be happy. Finally I complete my schooling, only to find that there aren't currently a lot of job offerings in my chosen profession where I'm living, but I do get a great job offer from a company that just happens to be located on the other side of the country. I decide to take the job and move hundreds and hundreds of miles away. I know this will be hard on my kids. They will have to go to new schools and say goodbye to the extended family and friends that they have loved and known their whole lives. But that's okay, because my kids just want me to be happy. Whatever makes me happy also makes them happy.

 

See where I'm going with this? I wouldn't say I was necessarily wrong in any of the choices I may have made in my pretend story, but I wonder if it's really true that the most important element in our childrens happiness is that we be happy. It seems odd that children would be expected to sacrifice for their parents happiness instead of the other way around. Obviously there are certain situations where a mother of father needs to change their circumstances regardless of how it might affect the kids because the kids don't understand how dire the situation is for the parent. But in some cases I think some parents just need to learn to count their blessings and be thankful for what they have instead of always pining for the next best thing.

[highviolet]

Hey I rarely start threads here because..well I'm not a BS, in fact I'm not married and I have never been involved in an affair. I found this forum when a good friend of mine was devastated by her husbands affair.

 

So usually I have no need to pose questions but there has been something kind of bugging me lately and I am hoping to get others opinions on this.

 

There seems to be a lot of parents who feel that their kids just want them to be happy. Their reasoning is that if they are happy (Parents) then they will be better parents thereby making their kids happy.

 

Okay I get the reasoning behind this, I really do. Obviousy a miserable mother or father is not going to be the best parent. But I'm wondering what the limits are on this philosophy. Say for example I was married with children. I become miserable in my marriage so I decide to leave my spouse. I expect that this will make me happy and so my kids should also be happy with my new found happiness. After my marriage ends I decide to quit a high paying job to go back to school full time because I'm not happy in my job anymore and I think a career change will seriously improve my level of happiness. This will mean a drastic drop in household income and my kids will feel it. They won't be able to participate in their team sports anymore or have a summer vacation, but that's okay because my kids just want me to be happy. Finally I complete my schooling, only to find that there aren't currently a lot of job offerings in my chosen profession where I'm living, but I do get a great job offer from a company that just happens to be located on the other side of the country. I decide to take the job and move hundreds and hundreds of miles away. I know this will be hard on my kids. They will have to go to new schools and say goodbye to the extended family and friends that they have loved and known their whole lives. But that's okay, because my kids just want me to be happy. Whatever makes me happy also makes them happy.

 

See where I'm going with this? I wouldn't say I was necessarily wrong in any of the choices I may have made in my pretend story, but I wonder if it's really true that the most important element in our childrens happiness is that we be happy. It seems odd that children would be expected to sacrifice for their parents happiness instead of the other way around. Obviously there are certain situations where a mother of father needs to change their circumstances regardless of how it might affect the kids because the kids don't understand how dire the situation is for the parent. But in some cases I think some parents just need to learn to count their blessings and be thankful for what they have instead of always pining for the next best thing.

 

Statements like this I find frauduent. I don't think anybody would say that the most important thing to a child is that their parents are happy. Whoever is saying that is crazy and selfish and trying to justify their behavior. But I think that if I am unhappy it would affect how I parent in one way or another, maybe in that I don't enjoy my time spent with the family, or that I am setting a bad example of what marriage should be, etc. Sometimes parents need to make decisions (being the adults) that would affect thier children in a way that to them would seem negative.

[alexandria35]

Hmm, this sounds like something I said on another thread except you added the word "just" which totally changed the meaning.

 

I got a divorce from the father of my children. I moved my children across the country against their will. I considered it to be the best choice not only for me, but also for them.

 

Do you have children?

 

Persephone, I didn't read your other post so this was in no way directed at you.

 

Yes I have kids but they are grown and gone now. As a parent I did a lot of right things and I made a lot of mistakes. I know almost all parents love their children dearly so I'm not trying to attack anyone here. I have a aunt and uncle who lived all over a few different countries when they were raising their children. I know they loved their kids and their kids loved them. Nobody would have ever dreamt of saying they were anything but excellent parents.

 

I'm just pondering this new way of thinking that kids are happy if their parents are happy, even if they have to sacrafice for that parents happiness. Maybe it's not a new way of thinking but it wasn't something I ever heard until about 7 or 8 years ago. When ever I would complain to my mom about the sacrafices I had to make for my kids happiness she would give me a verbal beat down..lol. She let me know in no uncertain terms that parents always put the needs and happiness of their children ahead of their own. She would get downright angry at me and I always felt ashamed for even complaining. Can't say I felt like she was being all that helpful at the time, but now that my kids are happy succesfull adults I'm kind of grateful to my mom for helping me to stay on track with them.

[blueroses10]

Alexandria, I believe it depends on the situation. In some cases, yes a happy parent will result in a happier child but I don't think that carries over into every situation that parents and children are placed in as in your examples.

 

For example, a lot of parents feel that it is best to stay married for the sake of their children all the while being miserable and setting horrible examples for their children. In this case, I think a happy parent will result in a happy child. When I was younger, my parents argued all the time and I prayed that they would divorce because it would have been best for my siblings and I. They didn't until later in life which at that point made it harder because they were older and we felt they would be old and alone.

 

I think in most other situations, I would probably place my child's happiness before mine, really in doing so, I will more than likely be happy anyway.

[threebyfate]

There's no sacrifice in being a parent. We wanted to be parents. Parents are also human beings, same as the children. There's no reason why everyone's happiness can't be factored into the equation.

 

Children aren't stupid. If they grow up in a tense, argumentative, abusive and unhappy environment, this provides them with the pattern for dysfunctional relationships.

 

Nuclear families aren't the be all and end all of family life so splitting and providing two happy households for the children, isn't that much of a stretch.

 

Divorce really isn't the end of the world. For some of us, it was just the beginning of our happiness!!

[Tayla]

Its the ole, which came first the chicken or the egg theory. IF a parent is happy a child is...if the wife is happy , happy life...Seriously as in most matters of true importance its a balancing act. No child should be secondary , nor should they supercede a marriage or a relations....There needs to be a realistic level of expectations both as a parent/couple and as the child.

I think the example by the OP was less then realistic, for then the parent would be egoistic and not really meant to be a positive role model if their happiness was to supercede all other matters. Most healthy and open families make a communal decision to work towards changes in jobs, home/ anything that can cause abrupt changes...Basically they have each others back.

So think about it from a balancing act....

[fooled once]

Hey I rarely start threads here because..well I'm not a BS, in fact I'm not married and I have never been involved in an affair. I found this forum when a good friend of mine was devastated by her husbands affair.

 

So usually I have no need to pose questions but there has been something kind of bugging me lately and I am hoping to get others opinions on this.

 

There seems to be a lot of parents who feel that their kids just want them to be happy. Their reasoning is that if they are happy (Parents) then they will be better parents thereby making their kids happy.

 

Okay I get the reasoning behind this, I really do. Obviousy a miserable mother or father is not going to be the best parent. But I'm wondering what the limits are on this philosophy. Say for example I was married with children. I become miserable in my marriage so I decide to leave my spouse. I expect that this will make me happy and so my kids should also be happy with my new found happiness. After my marriage ends I decide to quit a high paying job to go back to school full time because I'm not happy in my job anymore and I think a career change will seriously improve my level of happiness. This will mean a drastic drop in household income and my kids will feel it. They won't be able to participate in their team sports anymore or have a summer vacation, but that's okay because my kids just want me to be happy. Finally I complete my schooling, only to find that there aren't currently a lot of job offerings in my chosen profession where I'm living, but I do get a great job offer from a company that just happens to be located on the other side of the country. I decide to take the job and move hundreds and hundreds of miles away. I know this will be hard on my kids. They will have to go to new schools and say goodbye to the extended family and friends that they have loved and known their whole lives. But that's okay, because my kids just want me to be happy. Whatever makes me happy also makes them happy.

 

See where I'm going with this? I wouldn't say I was necessarily wrong in any of the choices I may have made in my pretend story, but I wonder if it's really true that the most important element in our childrens happiness is that we be happy. It seems odd that children would be expected to sacrifice for their parents happiness instead of the other way around. Obviously there are certain situations where a mother of father needs to change their circumstances regardless of how it might affect the kids because the kids don't understand how dire the situation is for the parent. But in some cases I think some parents just need to learn to count their blessings and be thankful for what they have instead of always pining for the next best thing.

 

Hey Alexandria. First of all, I love reading your posts!

 

The topic of this thread is near and dear to me.

 

I was a married mom and had just gotten a severance check (a very good severance check too!) when I decided I was done with my marriage. I was unemployed, but had enough to cover me for a couple months.

 

I didn't want my son living in a loveless, and at times, tension filled house thinking what his father and I were a "normal" married couple.

 

I chose to divorce my crappy ex H, the father of my child, for HIM and for ME. While times were much harder, I was much happier. And when momma's happy, everyone's happy. I know it was hard on my son for a bit, being as his father chose to not come around and see him, but he grew up into an awesome young man who is successful and very happy. He knows that I sacrificed a lot for him and he appreciates all he gets.

 

I think many like to think that it is "in the kids best interest" to stay married, but that is crap in my mind. Two parents who don't love each other, who act like roommates and who put their needs above their kids repeatedly are not good parents in my mind.

 

A mother (or father) sneaking around with a married person in my mind is not showing good parenting. To shove your kid aside for a booty call is pathetic. To use your children as an excuse to not divorce someone you are not in love with and some one who allegedly makes you miserable is pathetic.

 

Good parents do what is best for their children - including divorcing. Having an affair is not best for the children. It can cause sickness (STD's) and injury (when the betrayed spouse finds out and goes after the cheater and their affair partner). Parents should be good role models for their kids - and sneaking around and lying is not admirable qualities in a person.

 

Cheaters are often selfish, self absorbed people. Again, not good qualities for a child to emulate.

[fooled once]

I don't think anybody would say that the most important thing to a child is that their parents are happy. Whoever is saying that is crazy and selfish and trying to justify their behavior. But I think that if I am unhappy it would affect how I parent in one way or another, maybe in that I don't enjoy my time spent with the family, or that I am setting a bad example of what marriage should be, etc. Sometimes parents need to make decisions (being the adults) that would affect thier children in a way that to them would seem negative.

 

Most cheaters do try to use this as an excuse to stay married...when probably it is just an excuse NOT to divorce and be with the affair partner. I mean, how can a parent claim to love their children so much, yet spend all their free time away form home playing hide the sausage with someone not their spouse?

 

Hmm, this sounds like something I said on another thread except you added the word "just" which totally changed the meaning.

 

I got a divorce from the father of my children. I moved my children across the country against their will. I considered it to be the best choice not only for me, but also for them.

 

Do you have children?

 

Why would you think this was directed at you or had anything to do with some thing you posted? It is a fair question, especially since lately there have been several threads where children are mentioned.

 

So you moved your children away from their father? Why? Did you follow a lover across the country? Were you faithful to your H while married to him? What were the ages of the children when you moved them?

[confusedhere]

I think others are right when they say every situation is different. While I am still tempted to run away, far far away, I am trying to stick in out in my marriage primarily for our kids. However, my husband is remorseful and has made true changes in his behavior. If he were acting differently, I wouldn't have qualms packing up the kids and my stuff and leaving.

 

I'm putting my kids first, and I am willing to at least try, but there is a line of how much I can truly handle.

[seren]

When I was married to my XH he became almost bullying toward our son, who was just 3 when I left. His method of parenting was so, so different from mine - his mantra was If I say Jump, You Don't Ask Why, You Ask How High. Mine, If I say Jump, Ask Why. It caused conflict, he shouted, a lot, he was angry, a lot. Yet our son laughed, much, loved his father, but was also nervous for some of the time too. He would have grown up knowing no other way and would have been happy, but not as happy as he has been since we left.

 

Children accept their life as the norm, they know nothing else. When I left, I left a very affluent lifestyle, a lovely house and secure future. My son and I moved into a hostel for the homeless, we had to leave a foriegn country to come back to the UK. At times, I felt so very selfish from taking our son from the lifestyle he had known and at times thought I should return. However, to see him running around, getting muddy, not worrying (at 3) was so much better than anything materialistic.

 

Children in unhappy homes, or when a parent is unhappy notice things, no matter how good actors parents are around the children, they notice. If a parents are unhappy there will be tension and very often children, unless it's been explained, think they are to blame.

 

It is better to leave and create two happy homes for children than one where the atmosphere is tense. Very often people say they are staying for the children, but haven't examined the alternative and how a change can be the more positive action. Change is scary for everyone, change is especially scary for adults as they have an idea of the upheaval and the possibilitites. For children, as long as both parents are committed to ensuring that the children still feel loved and understand the reason for change, it can be positive. It depends on how the parents handle it.

[Spark1111]

The latest educational study may surprise people.

 

It is not how happy of unhappy parents are, whether married or divorced.

 

It is the level of acrimony in either scenario that fuels tension in children and can cause lifelong developmental problems.

 

So if you are kind, respectful to your spouse, even in a so-so marriage, the children will be fine.

 

If you are kind and respectful to each other as you divorce and deal with the aftermath, the children will be fine.

 

And that takes a high level of maturity, grace and acceptance of your SO and your SO, whether you stay married or divorce.

[Spark1111]

In all honesty?

 

Kids don't care one whit about a parent's level of tenderness and intimacy and romance in their marital relationship.

 

Healthy kids are pretty self-centered in their needs and wants.

 

They want mom and dad together, period.

 

Now, if mom and dad cannot be civil, kind and compassionate towards each other, and the level of acrimony rises, they should divorce as civilly, kindly and compassionately as possible.

 

If the parents have a strong relationship, that includes tenderness, intimacy and romance, that of course is a plus!

 

But it is not the most necessary component of a healthy stable childhood.

 

Kids could care less if mom or dad is romantically or emotionally fulfilled to the utmost. If Mom and Dad are reasonably happy around them, that is truly enough.

 

In other words, always act like a grown up!

 

 

Divisive, belittling, sarcasm, anger, frustration, or critical and disparaging comments and actions directed toward a spouse is more damaging to the healthy development of children than anything else, whether ones stays married or divorces, or has an affair.

[alexandria35]

In all honesty?

 

Kids don't care one whit about a parent's level of tenderness and intimacy and romance in their marital relationship.

 

Healthy kids are pretty self-centered in their needs and wants.

 

They want mom and dad together, period.

 

Now, if mom and dad cannot be civil, kind and compassionate towards each other, and the level of acrimony rises, they should divorce as civilly, kindly and compassionately as possible.

 

If the parents have a strong relationship, that includes tenderness, intimacy and romance, that of course is a plus!

 

But it is not the most necessary component of a healthy stable childhood.

 

Kids could care less if mom or dad is romantically or emotionally fulfilled to the utmost. If Mom and Dad are reasonably happy around them, that is truly enough.

 

In other words, always act like a grown up!

 

 

Divisive, belittling, sarcasm, anger, frustration, or critical and disparaging comments and actions directed toward a spouse is more damaging to the healthy development of children than anything else, whether ones stays married or divorces, or has an affair.

 

Thanks for all the great answers. It's true, most parents do make many sacrafices for their kids and I agree with Seren in that kids may for the most part be happy in their current situation but not be mature enough to know what is truly best for them in the long run.

 

I also really agree with Spark, I don't think most children care if their parents are passionately and romantically in love with each other, as a matter of fact I think children dont' even like to picture their parents that way. I've heard people say they wish their parents had gotten divorced instead of staying together and being miserable. But what if the parents aren't miserable? What if they still really respect and like each other and they show that to kids. The worst thing for children is to live in volitile home where there is constant fighting and chaos and some romantic love relationships are incredibly volitile.

[Spark1111]

Thanks for all the great answers. It's true, most parents do make many sacrafices for their kids and I agree with Seren in that kids may for the most part be happy in their current situation but not be mature enough to know what is truly best for them in the long run.

 

I also really agree with Spark, I don't think most children care if their parents are passionately and romantically in love with each other, as a matter of fact I think children dont' even like to picture their parents that way. I've heard people say they wish their parents had gotten divorced instead of staying together and being miserable. But what if the parents aren't miserable? What if they still really respect and like each other and they show that to kids. The worst thing for children is to live in volitile home where there is constant fighting and chaos and some romantic love relationships are incredibly volitile.

 

Yes, that seems to be the bottom line in the latest research.

 

It is how you handle your misery and treat your spouse in front of your children that matters more than how miserable you may personally be.

 

Children intuit the tension in the marriage or the divorce or during an affair and that, somewhat surprisingly, affects them more detrimentally than the degree of overall romantic happiness in an individual parent.

 

So bottom line? Handle adult unhappiness like an adult as you figure it out, but always choose the least acrimony in executing your plans, whatever they may be.

[Spark1111]

Our parents are role models for us. If the relationship our parents have does not include love and intimacy, that is how we will learn to treat our future spouse. Sad really.

 

Well children should not be aware of the love and intimacy in the marital relationship, or the lack thereof.

 

Children just need to be aware of a consistent level of respect and kindness between the parents, whether they be deeply passionately in love or not.

 

That is the the most important role model for the stability of children.

[threebyfate]

Well children should not be aware of the love and intimacy in the marital relationship, or the lack thereof.

 

Children just need to be aware of a consistent level of respect and kindness between the parents, whether they be deeply passionately in love or not.

 

That is the the most important role model for the stability of children.

Are you kidding? That love and intimacy shouldn't be displayed to children? Or perhaps intimacy means sex to you. It doesn't necessarily mean this to me, although there are components of it within.

[J200]

 

Children accept their life as the norm, they know nothing else. When I left, I left a very affluent lifestyle, a lovely house and secure future.

 

However when kids become old they can become BITTER. When my parents were married my parents were not poor (my dad used to be a diplomat before I was born) but we never went on vacation either. That's not the point though; my mom divorced and moved to the States with me. I never had nice clothes to wear (partly because no one drove me to the mall) and as a result I did not have good high school years. My mom never took me to a hair dresser, she fed me rice and chicken legs. She was also mentally ill and barely could support me. We had to rely on money from my aunts and uncles who donated or gave money to my grandma every money (who lived with us) and we would live on that.

 

I am in my thirties now and still traumatized by not having nice clothes to wear to school and going to school with crooked hair that I tried cutting myself (I would have rather died than have her cut it). My psyche is still destroyed to this day. I am still envious and bitter when I hear about wealthy kids with parents who take them shopping and buy them things etc. I would trade my life for theirs any day and I still don't talk to my mom to this day.

[highviolet]

I'm not talking about the marital sex. I'm talking about the gentle touch, the kiss, the hug. My opinion is that yes, the children should be aware of this. They should understand that the relationship their parents have is not just another friendship.

 

We will have to agree to disagree on this.

 

 

My parents are very affectionate; hugging, kissing, holding each other on the couch, etc. Of course when I was a kid, I thought, ewww, stop. But now I am married to a man who is very UNaffectionate, and it makes me think that he doesn't care about me, because that is how my parents show they care. Persephone is right, we model our future relationships after our parents' and that is why Spark is right, we should treat each other civilly whether our marriages stay together or end in divorce.

[xxoo]

To me, the concept of the parent needing to be happy is more valid in getting out of bad relationships than getting into new ones.

 

What I mean is--if the relationship is bad (abuse, addiction, etc), and the parent is miserable, then that will negatively affect the kids. Better to get out.

 

But happiness is not dependent on having a "perfect" romantic relationship. People can be great parents, and very happy, with no romantic relationship at all--or in "good enough" romantic relationships.

 

I agree that it is a matter of balance, and also of careful consideration of what happiness means, and how it is achieved.

 

As for children modeling what they see....that is true to a point. But children are not limited to what they see. Personally, my marriage is FAR more affectionate than my parents' marriage. My one data point: I did not see hugging and kissing in my parents marriage, but my kids see hugging and kissing in my marriage.

[seren]

Growing up, my parents had very little money, my new clothes came at Christmas or to go to church at Whitsun. I often got the mickey taken out of me for my clothes, my parents attatched very little value to personal vanity. So I understand very well how a lack of nice things can affect children, my wardrobe full of clothes attests to the need as an adult to have nice things and look nice. BUT, I also remember hearing my parents argue and never, not once saw them be affectionate, hug, hold hands never mind kiss!! I asked once if my Mum loved my dad as they never kissed the way my friend's parents did, Mum said of course, but the easy affectionate atmosphere was never in our house.

 

I noticed, I could have managed without the finery, but would have loved to see affection. My son would have been a very different person had we stayed with my XH, no we didn't have holidays, but we had so much fun at our local beach, there was no pressure from me to be the best at everything (would have been from H) he was raised to feel he was the best just because he drew breath. Not so my XH's way, so for me and my son, leaving was the best thing to do. My XH dropped off the radar when he moved to the States 20 years ago, has never bothered with our son. This makes me doubly sure it was the right thing. How anyone can do that is beyond me.

 

He has been raised by my H, who he loves and calls Dad (his choice). Divorced parents should never divorce themselves from their children or resonsibilities. If they are good parents they will work together to ensure their child or children know they are loved, wanted and will show respect for the other parent. I have not, will not and do not bad mouth my XH to our son, he does and I don't allow it, despite him being 27. I try to get him to contact his father, but he chooses not to. Sad, but I know leaving was right for him.

[highviolet]

Give and ye shall receive.

 

? explain please?

[highviolet]

You said this:

 

 

 

You married an unaffectionate man. Presumably you had some good reason for doing so. If, now, you want to attempt to get him to be more affectionate, then you have no choice but to model that behavior for him. And, since he is unaffectionate by nature, it will take a lot of effort on your part. You are trying to change a basic part of his personality.

 

If you think he's both unaffectionate and uncaring, and there is no hope for him, why on Earth did you marry him in the first place?

 

I know, I know--he had a good job/money/resources.

 

Now you sound like you are getting itchy feet and are in the process of turning him into the bad guy in the marriage.

 

And I think we all know what happens after that process, assuming of course it hasn't happened already.

 

Wow that sure is a lot of assumptions from a post that really has nothing to do with my relationship but more about how we model our parents' relationships. I wasn't even complaining about him or saying that he was uncaring. I said that I feel like he does not care about me when he is unaffectionate because that is not how my parents act. I have learned, because I am an intelligent adult, that I can't base reality on how things make me feel. I know my husband cares for me, he just shows it differently than how I learned growing up. I never said anything about trying to change him. All I was doing was providing an example of the point persephone was making. Geez.

 

I'm feeding the troll, I should know better.

Edited March 21, 2011 by highviolet
didn't mean to quote both posts, this is only in reference to the second

[highviolet]

Sorry, you are right, I originally said think when I should have said feel. But I'm not arguing semantics. The rest of your post is hog wash, because it would have been completely off topic for me to mention any of that stuff. I know what I said and what I meant and for you to infer all those things from my post is on you because you are overreaching and over analyzing so you can try to make a point that has nothing to do with this thread.

[highviolet]

You really should try to stay on topic. I'm very sorry to OP I'm not trying to tj, just defend my original thoughts on the subject.

[threebyfate]

There seems to be a lot of parents who feel that their kids just want them to be happy.

I didn't address this comment in the opening post. Not once have I ever seen anyone express it in this way. It sets up a false premise.

 

Also, I didn't notice this was in the Infidelity subforum. Hopefully no one is suggesting that couples must stay together after cheating has happened, for the sake of the children. That's complete and utter bunk. No one who's been cheated on should have to remain in an already broken marriage. If they choose to remain, that's their life and choice although I wouldn't personally recommend the hell that not only the betrayed would have to suffer through but also the children.

 

When someone cheats, they not only cheat on their spouse, they cheat on their children. And that's a fact!