Am I being unreasonable or paranoid

[still hurting]

Am I being unreasonable in expecting my W to tell me about her relationship with a man that she calls "just a friend" ? I have been obsessed with this for 7 years and it has ruined my life. She refuses to talk about and it says "there's nothing to talk about -- he was a friend of my ex-husband and became a friend of the family."

 

She's correct in thinking that what she did before we met would be none of my business, except that it started up again after we were married. Knowing the complete history would help me know whether I'm being paranoid or not. I suspect that the reason she doesn't want to talk about it is that she's still having some type of relationship with him

 

I've told her numerous times that if he's just a friend there's not a problem. The problem comes when she tries to hide it from me.

 

I can't seem to get over it. I've been to 5 counselors. The latest counselor helped me come up with a plan. When I've brought this up in the past W would tell me that if I would spend half as much time working on the marriage as I did thinking about the past our marriage would be great.

 

So the plan was that I would ask W what she needed from me, then hopefully she would ask me what I needed. The biggest thing I need is an explanation of her relationship with this OM.

 

About a month ago I implemented the plan. I told her that I realized our relationship hadn't been ideal, and asked her what I could to to make it better. She told me several things which I have been trying to do. Unfortunately the second part of my plan didn't work. She didn't ask me what she could do to make our relationship better.

 

Last week I asked her how it was going. She said "It's going great and I really love you". I then decided she was never going to ask me what I needed and said "Would you like to know what I need". I then explained to her that for some people keeping what they have done in the past is best. However, for me I have a need to know. I need to know your whole history with OM.

 

Her response was "There's nothing to tell. He was a friend of my ex-husband and then he became friend of the family. There was never anything between us. I'm sure he would have like for there to be, but there was never was." Then she sounded frustrated and said "I wish you would believe me!!" She didn't want to continue talking about it so I let it drop.

 

Now I feel much worse that I did before I tried to implement my plan.

 

We've been together for 12 years and married for nearly 9. Apparently she doesn't remember what she told me about OM years ago or she thinks I don't remember. Unfortunately I don't remember all the details, but apparently she and her husband had a threesome with him and then she fell in love with him. She would deny this and say my memory is faulty and it never happened and she never told me that.

 

Once when we broke up prior to getting married she asked if I thought there was just one "love of your life". I said I didn't know, and she said she thought there was and that she had missed out on hers. She told me about a time when she had left her husband. She called a friend of the family and told him about it. The next week he showed up at her door. He had left his wife and moved here to be with W. I don't remember the rest of the story, but I know she went back to her husband and he went back to his wife. I don't know for sure, but I think OM is the friend that she called.

 

In 2003 he wrote her and told her that he was now divorced and asked if they could meet. I accidently read her email since she left it open on her compuater, then started spying on her computer. She said she was now happily married, but perhaps they could be friends. He said "perhaps the three of us could get together for dinner". She said she'd rather just meet him for drinks but that they'd have to meet in a dark bar where nobody would recognize her. Obviously she didn't want me involved.

 

They scheduled a meeting time, however he had a business appointment and cancelled out. They rescheduled for the following Friday, however I foiled their plans by offering to take her to a movie that afternoon. After that she wrote him and said perhaps they could just exchange photos. She sent him several erotic photos of her and he sent her one of him.

 

For the next 4 years they went back and forth -- he would ask her when she would meet him for drinks and she would find some excuse to put him off. Once she said "I'm looking forward to that drink(s). I might be shy when I see you and will require more than one". Another time shortly after that she said "here's the deal -- I can't meet you for drinks because I am afraid if I do I will become your lover again.

 

Finally in 2007 she agreed to meet him. They met for drinks at least twice. After that he sent her an email stating that he was getting married and said "Well your off the market sooooooooooo I have to settle with the next best thing!" She responded with "Three words of advice: POSTPONE, POSTPONE, POSTPONE. Do that and we'll proceed to the next step."

 

He didn't postpone, because in reality he'd been married for several years and was apparently just leading my W on.

 

In February, 2008 I told W I wanted a divorce. She asked me to stay and said we could live together as roommates. We are upside down in our house, so I agreed to stay.

 

Since that time I've been trying to get over it and forget it. I have no way of knowing whether she's still communicating with him or seeing him.

 

My biggest fear is the fear of what I don't know. I think if she would tell me the whole story I would be able to get over it. However, my second biggest fear is being lied to and not knowing whether she's lying or not. If I try to drag the story out of her there is no way of telling if she's lying. I would really, really like for her to want to tell me. I've tried on several instances to tell her how important that is, but she insists that he is just a friend.

 

I don't believe he's just a friend for several reasons including several of the emails. She sent him an email that had a subject "Do you have the key to the handcuffs?" He responded

 

You will always be sexy in my book. I still remember the first night at the bicycle club you sat across from me (ex-H) was on my right he was doing most of the talking I was just hoping you wouldn't reject me. I never cared for him but I always had my eyes on you.

 

Your the only one to handcuff me to the bed too AND DIDN"T HAVE THE KEY!! Remember that? Totally naked and I thought we'd have to call the emt's to help. I think about you everytime I go by those apartments in (name of city). We did have some fun times:)

 

Do friends handcuff each other to a bed naked? Also, she lived in an apartment in the city he mentioned after we were supposedly in a committed relationship. It's possible that's not the apartment he's referring to, but as far as I know she's never lived in that city except at that time.

 

My question -- what can I do to get her to tell me the whole story, or am I being paranoid and unreasonable for wanting her to? All I want is to get over it.

[YellowShark]

In answer to your question friends do not handcuff friends to beds naked. Nor do they send erotic photos of themselves to each other unless they are invested in a sexual or emotional relationship. End of story.

 

Now that that has been identified, you said it is over between you two. So now you have to move on and find your own place if you want to get on with your life. She will NEVER give you the answer you want, and will only gaslight you till the end of time.

 

Best of luck.

[Idalis]

Am I being unreasonable in expecting my W to tell me about her relationship with a man that she calls "just a friend" ? I have been obsessed with this for 7 years and it has ruined my life. She refuses to talk about and it says "there's nothing to talk about -- he was a friend of my ex-husband and became a friend of the family."

 

She's correct in thinking that what she did before we met would be none of my business, except that it started up again after we were married. Knowing the complete history would help me know whether I'm being paranoid or not. I suspect that the reason she doesn't want to talk about it is that she's still having some type of relationship with him

 

I've told her numerous times that if he's just a friend there's not a problem. The problem comes when she tries to hide it from me.

 

I can't seem to get over it. I've been to 5 counselors. The latest counselor helped me come up with a plan. When I've brought this up in the past W would tell me that if I would spend half as much time working on the marriage as I did thinking about the past our marriage would be great.

 

So the plan was that I would ask W what she needed from me, then hopefully she would ask me what I needed. The biggest thing I need is an explanation of her relationship with this OM.

 

About a month ago I implemented the plan. I told her that I realized our relationship hadn't been ideal, and asked her what I could to to make it better. She told me several things which I have been trying to do. Unfortunately the second part of my plan didn't work. She didn't ask me what she could do to make our relationship better.

 

Last week I asked her how it was going. She said "It's going great and I really love you". I then decided she was never going to ask me what I needed and said "Would you like to know what I need". I then explained to her that for some people keeping what they have done in the past is best. However, for me I have a need to know. I need to know your whole history with OM.

 

Her response was "There's nothing to tell. He was a friend of my ex-husband and then he became friend of the family. There was never anything between us. I'm sure he would have like for there to be, but there was never was." Then she sounded frustrated and said "I wish you would believe me!!" She didn't want to continue talking about it so I let it drop.

 

Now I feel much worse that I did before I tried to implement my plan.

 

We've been together for 12 years and married for nearly 9. Apparently she doesn't remember what she told me about OM years ago or she thinks I don't remember. Unfortunately I don't remember all the details, but apparently she and her husband had a threesome with him and then she fell in love with him. She would deny this and say my memory is faulty and it never happened and she never told me that.

 

Once when we broke up prior to getting married she asked if I thought there was just one "love of your life". I said I didn't know, and she said she thought there was and that she had missed out on hers. She told me about a time when she had left her husband. She called a friend of the family and told him about it. The next week he showed up at her door. He had left his wife and moved here to be with W. I don't remember the rest of the story, but I know she went back to her husband and he went back to his wife. I don't know for sure, but I think OM is the friend that she called.

 

In 2003 he wrote her and told her that he was now divorced and asked if they could meet. I accidently read her email since she left it open on her compuater, then started spying on her computer. She said she was now happily married, but perhaps they could be friends. He said "perhaps the three of us could get together for dinner". She said she'd rather just meet him for drinks but that they'd have to meet in a dark bar where nobody would recognize her. Obviously she didn't want me involved.

 

They scheduled a meeting time, however he had a business appointment and cancelled out. They rescheduled for the following Friday, however I foiled their plans by offering to take her to a movie that afternoon. After that she wrote him and said perhaps they could just exchange photos. She sent him several erotic photos of her and he sent her one of him.

 

For the next 4 years they went back and forth -- he would ask her when she would meet him for drinks and she would find some excuse to put him off. Once she said "I'm looking forward to that drink(s). I might be shy when I see you and will require more than one". Another time shortly after that she said "here's the deal -- I can't meet you for drinks because I am afraid if I do I will become your lover again.

 

Finally in 2007 she agreed to meet him. They met for drinks at least twice. After that he sent her an email stating that he was getting married and said "Well your off the market sooooooooooo I have to settle with the next best thing!" She responded with "Three words of advice: POSTPONE, POSTPONE, POSTPONE. Do that and we'll proceed to the next step."

 

He didn't postpone, because in reality he'd been married for several years and was apparently just leading my W on.

 

In February, 2008 I told W I wanted a divorce. She asked me to stay and said we could live together as roommates. We are upside down in our house, so I agreed to stay.

 

Since that time I've been trying to get over it and forget it. I have no way of knowing whether she's still communicating with him or seeing him.

 

My biggest fear is the fear of what I don't know. I think if she would tell me the whole story I would be able to get over it. However, my second biggest fear is being lied to and not knowing whether she's lying or not. If I try to drag the story out of her there is no way of telling if she's lying. I would really, really like for her to want to tell me. I've tried on several instances to tell her how important that is, but she insists that he is just a friend.

 

I don't believe he's just a friend for several reasons including several of the emails. She sent him an email that had a subject "Do you have the key to the handcuffs?" He responded

 

You will always be sexy in my book. I still remember the first night at the bicycle club you sat across from me (ex-H) was on my right he was doing most of the talking I was just hoping you wouldn't reject me. I never cared for him but I always had my eyes on you.

 

Your the only one to handcuff me to the bed too AND DIDN"T HAVE THE KEY!! Remember that? Totally naked and I thought we'd have to call the emt's to help. I think about you everytime I go by those apartments in (name of city). We did have some fun times:)

 

Do friends handcuff each other to a bed naked? Also, she lived in an apartment in the city he mentioned after we were supposedly in a committed relationship. It's possible that's not the apartment he's referring to, but as far as I know she's never lived in that city except at that time.

 

My question -- what can I do to get her to tell me the whole story, or am I being paranoid and unreasonable for wanting her to? All I want is to get over it.

 

I dont think you're being paranoid at all b/c it sounds like your suspicions are spot on! My only doubt is why you would settle for being lied to and being 2nd best to your W. I dont think you need to hear it straight from her to know that there was something going on between her and her "friend". Maybe you feel that if she doesnt acknowledge it herself then you can pretend you didn't read what you read??

 

He does not sound like a friend!

[2sunny]

you have all the information you need to know. she has never been "all in" in your marriage.

 

she's never been willing to be honest with you - so you essentially have nothing to work from as far as a solid foundation.

 

you have the info you need - you just haven't taken action on it.

 

when nothing changes = nothing changes... what are you willing to change. you can't change her - only YOU. are you willing to put up with a woman who isn't in to your M- but pretends to be?

 

when people have nothing to hide = they hide nothing.

 

your M is a farce... and she continues to feed the pretending. pretending is a form of lying. since you have never had her truth = she has given nothing to the M. looks like you are working a M based on nothingness.

 

you are feeding a ton of energy into nothingness... since she's unwilling to participate in an honest manner. how long are you going to play this game of pretending?

 

you either get busy living - or you get busy dying...

 

i'd rather move on and find any relationship built on honesty - rather than spend more time and energy wasted on lies, deceit and love and energy being placed outside the marriage. it will never be happy as long as she's placing that energy on her other man.

 

what are you going to do about it?

[Bryanp]

I am sorry my friend but she has been playing you for a fool throughout your marriage. She is a dishonest person. If the roles were reversed I am sure she probably would have divorced you by now. Her actions with this friend indicate that she has very little respect for you at all. If you do not respect yourself then who will? You need to move on and find someone who truly loves you, respects you and respects your marriage. The woman you are with is not this woman. Enough is enough.

[blueroses10]

It seems at this point if you two are living as roommates that the truth isn't going to change anything in your relationship. It might make you furious to know the truth but I think deep down inside you already know what you need to know.

 

You saw the emails--they don't lie. It is possible that your wife doesn't want to hurt you by sharing details so I don't think you can push her to tell the truth. Do what's best for you at this point.

[Chi townD]

Have you ever confronted her with all this evidence? It seems pretty damning.

[still hurting]

It seems at this point if you two are living as roommates that the truth isn't going to change anything in your relationship.

 

My posting was unclear. She said we could live as roommates, however I don't think she was serious. We haven't been living as roommates.

 

It might make you furious to know the truth but I think deep down inside you already know what you need to know.

 

Maybe I'm strange, but it wouldn't make me furious unless she's still having a relationship with him. She refuses to admit that she's done anything wrong. I think if she would admit to it and act like she was sorry that I could possibly get over it.

[still hurting]

Have you ever confronted her with all this evidence? It seems pretty damning.

 

I have confronted her with most of it. She says I am misinterpreting things and that they aren't as they seem.

[still hurting]

when people have nothing to hide = they hide nothing.

 

I agree and that's probably my biggest problem. If she wasn't hiding anything I think I would be OK with what has happened in the past. However the fact that she won't talk about it makes me wonder about the present.

 

you either get busy living - or you get busy dying...

 

I've considered that. I'm in my mid 60's, and I think that I really don't have that many years to live, so I just need to put up with it. Perhaps I'm already getting busy dying.

 

what are you going to do about it?

 

I'm thinking about confronting her with each thing that I know and see where that goes. However, my fear is that she will continue to deny that she's done anything wrong and it won't help much.

[BB07]

My posting was unclear. She said we could live as roommates, however I don't think she was serious. We haven't been living as roommates.

 

But what she says..........and what she DOES is for sure two totally different things. Perhaps if you could accept this one thing you'd be ready to make some changes in your life in order to get your self respect back.

 

I'm a woman......and I don't mean to be cruel, but your wife is playing you for a fool.

 

Maybe I'm strange, but it wouldn't make me furious unless she's still having a relationship with him. She refuses to admit that she's done anything wrong. I think if she would admit to it and act like she was sorry that I could possibly get over it.

 

She isn't sorry and I think you can wait until the cows come home but she is NOT going to own up to anything because she doesn't have to, you have enabled her to go on with it even though that is not what you meant to do.

Perhaps.......if you make it clear to her that you aren't going to take the current situation as it is not one minute longer you might wake her up but she is showing you over and over that unless something drastic happens things will remain the same.

[BB07]

10 characters.......my message is too short....what???? Vbullentin.......uggg.

 

I agree and that's probably my biggest problem. If she wasn't hiding anything I think I would be OK with what has happened in the past. However the fact that she won't talk about it makes me wonder about the present.

 

 

I've considered that. I'm in my mid 60's, and I think that I really don't have that many years to live, so I just need to put up with it. Perhaps I'm already getting busy dying.

 

Reading that above........breaks my heart and it pisses me off too. She is breaking your spirit, breaking you, you have the right and the power to stop it. So what that you are 60 something. You deserve peace of mind!

 

 

 

I'm thinking about confronting her with each thing that I know and see where that goes. However, my fear is that she will continue to deny that she's done anything wrong and it won't help much.

[Bryanp]

This has gone on way too long. Request a polygraph or a divorce. Why you would accept this is beyond comprehension. I wish you luck.

[Chi townD]

You say you're in your mid sixties and you don't have that many more years to live. Which is kinda BS if you ask me but that neither here nor there. I would just say that you're done playing games like you're twenty. Either take a polygraph or it's over. You're sick and tired of playing games and letting this eat you up inside. If she refuses, I think you'll have your answer. Then take a trip somewhere, enjoy your time. Training for the Chicago marathon, do you know how many mature ladies I saw running that thing? You'll be in like Flynn!

[2sunny]

I'm thinking about confronting her with each thing that I know and see where that goes. However, my fear is that she will continue to deny that she's done anything wrong and it won't help much.

 

my fear is that you are unwilling to change anything for YOU!

 

my fear is that you will do nothing.

 

forget about what she's going to do - she is going to deny, deny, deny! you are expecting her to be a decent person... well, she has proven with evidence that she isn't.

 

since she's not - get out! she will never give you her truth - that would mean she has to admit that she's been participating in slutty behavior all these years... and she needs for you to be deceived into thinking that she's a decent gal = which she's not, and never will be, given her evidence.

 

you have the evidence- she's never going to admit. so get out.

 

she will never give you the peace of mind you deserve- that was enough for me to get out of a 20 year marriage... i did it precisely when i found evidence that he wasn't the man i thought he could be. he wasn't capable of being one bit honest and i was married to a man totally different than i thought i was. life is great now... i gave myself my own peace of mind by cutting that liar out of my life = the one that pretended to love me (and said so with his words) but betrayed me behind my back with his intentions and actions.

 

life is too short=i wanted to live again. i deserved to be happy without all the wondering about what he was and wasn't doing.

[wicar1]

She is not marriage material, I bet she's still f**** that guy. Leave her, she's not worth it. Dont bother knowing her past, cause from what you ve said, I am sure her past is gonna s**** even more. Just get a divorce and move on.

[freestyle]

OP

 

To answer your question, No.

 

You are neither unreasonable, nor paranoid.

 

The fact that you're even questioning your own perceptions is evidence that you've been gaslighted to the Nth degree.

 

I'm sorry, but sending erotic photos to someone who's "just a friend"

can only have one explanation.

 

Your W accuses you of misinterpreting erotic photos??

 

 

it's nothing more than a deflection tactic.

 

I think it's time to show her the door--find a roommate who doesn't lie to you, toy with your emotions, and take advantage of you---if you can't afford the house by yourself............

 

Your W is showing zero concern for your peace of mind.In fact, she's damaging it , severely. Gaslighting like that does lasting damage that can be very difficult to recover from.

[Windsurf66]

Old post, old story. Here are the past threads

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/search.php?searchid=14979285

 

So how is your wife for the past 6 months since u last posted? Still getting along? Still having sex? Does she treat you well? Do you feel that she loves you? What is your gut feeling on whether she is sincere towards you or just need your paycheck?

 

And have u been preparing yourself financially for a divorce?

[still hurting]

Old post, old story. Here are the past threads

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/sear...rchid=14979285

 

And have u been preparing yourself financially for a divorce?

 

Oops -- I got caught. I keep thinking if I wait a while and post again I'll get a different answer. If you searched back even further you would find a similar post from May, 2007.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t119711/

 

I have also posted several times prior to that, but I can't remember the user name that I used and I can't find the posts.

 

However, no matter how many times I post I get the same answers.

 

So how is your wife for the past 6 months since u last posted? Still getting along? Still having sex? Does she treat you well?

 

We get along OK. That's one reason why I'm hesitant to do anything. We have sex occasionally. She treats me OK.

 

Do you feel that she loves you? What is your gut feeling on whether she is sincere towards you or just need your paycheck?

 

I wish I knew if she loved me or whether she just needs my paycheck. She says she loves me. If I knew the answer to that question it would make my life so much easier. If the answer was that she loves me I could probably get over the way I feel. If the answer was that she just needs my paycheck I would make the decision to get a divorce.

 

I wish there was some kind of test to tell if she really loves me.

 

I just can't make myself get a divorce. I read other postings on this board and think my problem is insignificant compared to others.

 

Also I wonder if I'm paranoid. I confronted her in late 2007, and prior to that time I was spying on her email so I knew what was going on. Since that time I have no idea if she's still seeing the guy or not.

 

Some nights she gets home at 8 and says she's been at the mall getting her nails done. That part is true, but she gets off at 4 and I can't imagine it taking that long. This is probably part of the paranoia.

 

My gut feeling is that she's not seeing him. I think she wanted to divorce me for him in 2007. He, on the other hand, was just looking for some sex. He told her he was getting married in late 2007, and I suspect she lost interest in him after that.

 

However, I have no way of knowing for sure.

 

I appreciate all the advice that everyone has given me, and I think it's good advice. However I can't start over at my age. I just have to find a way to get over the way I feel or learning to live with it better.

 

I won't post again and waste everyone's time and I apologize for the multiple postings.

[Windsurf66]

You can always hire a PI to check if she is still in contact with the guy, or any other guys

 

Why cant you start all over again, if you found out that your wife was/is unfaithful ? You are in 60s, and may live till 90s. Why suffer for another 30 years?

[still hurting]

This is an update and a primarily just a vent.

 

There's an old question "Do I have STUPID written on my forehead?" Apparently I do and apparently I am VERY, VERY stupid.

 

Apparently my W had been able to tell that I was unhappy and in October 2012 she found another man and told me she wanted a divorce. I was happy at that time and we agreed on the terms of the divorce. She would get the house and I would make the full house payment through July, 2013 (9 months) then she would be liable for the house payment. She said she would start looking for a better job and if she couldn't find one she would get a roommate. She asked if I would continue to make a partial payment if she was unable to get a better job or a roommate. I verbally agreed to do so.

 

Her relationship with this guy lasted less than 2 months and she virtually begged me to get back together. This was a guy that worshiped her and treated her the way she deserved to be treated. Turns out he was controlling and verbally abusive and didn't have much money.

 

I was hurting a lot and wasn't willing to get back together with her. She finally decided that she would get a para-legal to draw up the divorce papers. They stated exactly what we had agreed on, and I am idiot and trusted her to do what she agreed to do.

 

I did exactly what I agreed to do and paid the payment through July, and even paid the August payment. I then started trying to contact her to make at least a partial payment. She kept putting me off, and putting me off and finally we met on September 15th. She said she couldn't get a better job and she couldn't afford to make the payment. Finally she agreed to pay 1/2 of the payment.

 

Then she sent me an email and said that the house could go into foreclosure as far as she is concerned. We are upside down by about $20K, however property values are rising quickly here and within a year or two it will probably be worth what we owe,

 

I have a good job and I have consulted an attorney and if it goes into foreclosure the bank will probably get a deficiencly judgement which I will have to pay. So I want to avoid that.

 

The attorney said that the way the settlement is worded it's going to be difficult to force her to pay or force her out. I am waiting to see if she pays what she is supposed to in October, then I will make the decision on what to do.

 

I'm not asking for advice, just venting and possibly warning anyone else that is contemplating a divorce to NEVER TRUST YOUR SOON TO BE EX. Nice guys always finish last. Pay the cost of getting a good attorney involved from the beginning. It will be cheaper in the long run.

[BetrayedH]

I can't trust my ex any farther than I can throw her.

[pinkstraws]

It isn't stupid to trust someone that you love.

 

If you come to believe that trusting people and believing in their potential for good, decent actions is wrong or doomed to failure or whatever - then you let immoral and indecent people bring you down to their level.

 

I think if it is what you want to do you should believe what she has said (minus the evidence you have) but all contact with this other man must end immediately. There is no getting around this; her relationship with him (friends or not) is highly toxic to your marriage. You will have to give her a "him or me' ultimatum. Also you need to see evidence that it is over, that he and she have made it clear to you and each other that they will never communicate. And follow up on it for a while - maybe six months.

 

I'm not an expert by any means as I am just navigating the first few months of an affairs aftermath (mostly poorly) but I do know the kind of person I am and want to remain and I am not going to let weak and selfish people change me.

 

People sometimes have deep issues that cause them to react to situations sometimes in unhealthy or hurtful ways. I am not excusing it, but being married to someone means that they are your family. Being in a family with someone means that you help them and care about them when their moral compass gets screwed up and when they make poor decisions. To me, being married means helping get people back onto a good path in life. I don't believe in this: "Oh, look. You screwed up and hurt me and so out you go." I prefer to say: "You do not want to be a person like this. How can I help you make this right for both of us?

 

Your W has to be willing to do the work, but helping her, caring about her and loving her the way you want to love her has more potential of working out in a way where you are both happy and committed to your marriage and the future.

[still hurting]

Thanks for the advice pinkstraws.

 

However, this is just a new message that I added onto an old post that started in 2010. We were divorced in March 2013. My vent this time is about my stupidity in trusting her to do what she agreed to do when we got divorced.