Can my marriage be saved?

[greenshift]

Help!!!

 

Yes, I know that's not very descriptive, so here goes. (Hope you have a beer and some popcorn handy.)

 

My wife and I have been together for seven years, married for five. I'm 28, she's 27. Three years ago I decided to quit my job and go to college (I'm one of those nerds that skipped higher education out of high school, did very well, then decided that he hated typing for a living). After discussing this with her, I quit my $70k/yr development job, got a GED, and went to a local community college for two years before receiving a scholarship to a local private university. This was great for me, but left her holding the financial bag, so to speak, since all of my classes were offered during the day. I found enough contract jobs to keep about half of the bills paid, but wound up selling a couple of cars (though she still has a very nice one) and selling our house in favor of a less-expensive condo. (Actually good timing - a developer gave us more for it than we could have got on the market even in the best of circumstances.) We moved into the new place last August.

 

We've always argued; for awhile we hit a point where sex was rare, seemed like she didn't even want to touch me. Now I think this was, for the most part, due to the stress of her ridiculous schedule. (She works full time and decided to go to grad school, taking up to 12 hours a semester, at night when I started back to school.) I've also got a chemical imbalance (world's smallest violin, I know) and have had some pretty extreme emotional problems from time to time, culminating once in a half-hearted suicide attempt that was really a very mean cry for attention. The gist of all of this is that I was essentially the baby and she her mother, not a healthy relationship. Her parents have a similar arrangement; her father is so passive you could probably walk up to him and grab his wallet and walk slowly away without any sort of objection. This is obviously not healthy, in either marriage, since I relegated myself to being taken care of and her father won't stand up to his wife to save his life, which sets a bad example for L.

 

Last October, she asked me to move out. At first, I was sympathetic, and she cried, and I tried to be supportive, but after a few days I kicked and screamed and did everything in my power to avoid moving out. Finally, in December, I got an apartment, and we continued seeing each other several times a week, still sleeping together, etc, and things were, to be honest, better than they had ever been. I really thought everything was going to work out. Our fifth anniversary came and went in March, we had a very nice evening together and continued as if we were dating. I asked her at one point if I should be dating other people - our arrangement wasn't a marriage and couldn't last forever, and I was an idiot for pointing this out - and she, put on the spot, said yes.

 

Three days after the last time we made love (early May), I went on a date with another girl. We went out five times in six days, and never saw each other again. She asked me out to start with, not that it matters. We kissed but did not sleep together. L. called every evening when I was out with the other girl, and was very annoyed that I was seeing anyone else, saying such things as "You better not be spending our money taking that girl out." I didn't recognize this as jealousy at the time, nor would I have been receptive had I done so. I pretty much abandoned L, and I realize now that I was trying to have the type of relationship that I wanted with my wife with this other girl, behaving as if the new girl were L, which, of course, didn't work so well for the new girl.

 

Three days after my last date with the new girl, and a week and half after L. and I stopped sleeping together, L. came over in the middle of the night, distraught because she was so lonely and saying things like "no one ever touches me. I miss being touched." She put her head on my shoulder, cried and told me over and over again that she loved me "so much." I was moved, but still caught up in the other relationship I had yet to realize had evaporated out from under me, and used that as a way to avoid focusing on my real priority.

 

I encouraged L. to start dating again, and she's started seeing some guy from school who I was, at one point, sure she was cheating on me with. I know now that was a mistake on my part, but I still hate the jerk, not that it matters. She talked to me repeatedly about him (we had agreed to be friends, and I was trying to be supportive) and she said things like "He so does not have it together" and "I don't see myself getting serious with this guy." I told her "You don't have to marry him you know. Just have fun." God, I'm an idiot.

 

On June 6, we filed for divorce. I regret that now more than I am capable of expressing.

 

So, two weeks I was in San Francisco on business (I'm from Texas) and talking to L. when I hear the dogs going crazy in the background. She asks me to hang on, then says that she'll call me back in a minute. Five minutes later she calls and informs me that this guy just randomly showed up on her doorstep with a bottle of vodka and that they were going to watch a movie. He had come over the night before and enjoyed the same activity. I don't believe they slept together based on conversations and evidence seen since (yes, I was an ass and counted the condoms - I know, I'll burn in hell. Believe me, no one can make me feel worse about this.) I stewed over that all night, sent a few nasty emails to her since I couldn't get to sleep, and called her the next morning to apologize and ask her not to read the emails. Part of our conversation (we had several that day) went llike:

 

Me: "I don't want a divorce. I never wanted a divorce."

Her: "How can I believe you? We've been back and forth on this so many times."

 

Notice that she didn't say "I don't care" or " too bad" or "I'm sorry you feel that way." three months ago I almost moved back in after we agreed that was the best way to fix our relationship, but chickened out

 

Me: "You're right. There's nothing I can do to convince you."

 

More small talk and we got off the phone.

 

Two hours later I felt as though I had been struck in the head by lightning. I DIDN'T want a divorce. I DIDN'T want to see other people, DIDN'T want her to see other people. The thought of another man sitting on my couch, making out (which she admitted) with my wife, petting my dog and sleeping in my bed (which she flatly denies, and I choose to believe her, though my heart has misgivings) drove me wild, but not because of him: because I still love her, more than the trees love the rain or Mercury its endless race around the sun.

 

I started crying in the middle of a training class, and excused myself. I tried to call her but my phone malfunctioned. I was overwhelmed by the thought that, if they went out again that night (Friday), she would sleep with him and there would be no chance of our reconciling. I attempted to borrow a phone from one of my coworkers but it took another hour and a trip to the airport (we were schedule to leave that afternoon) to find a working phone and a signal. (More drama deleted here due to space constraints.) I called her on a borrowed phone, crying in the San Francisco rental car tram station, and she answered, surprised that I was calling from an unknown number.

 

"Hello?"

me: "Hi."

"Oh, hi! I didn't recognize the number."

me: "I know, I'm calling on Bill's phone. Listen, you got a minute?"

her" "Sure. What's up?"

me: "I know you said that you couldn't believe me, when I said that I didn't want a divorce. Would you give me a chance to prove it to you?"

silence.

her:" I don't know. This is very sudden."

me" I know it is, and I know it's not fair, but I feel like I have to tell you how I feel right now or there will never be another opportunity. I'm sorry for laying this on you. But, I needed you to know how I feel."

silence.

her: "I have to think about this..."

me: "I know."

her:" Can we talk when you get back into town?"

me: "Sure. I'll be home late."

her: "I'll be up. You can call me."

me: "Okay. I'll talk to you soon. 'Bye."

her: "Bye."

 

Continued...

[greenshift]

I flew back, called her at 1am just to say that I made it back in one piece, and took her out to lunch the next day. She looked great, I looked great, we had lunch and chatted for about an hour before she stopped and said,

"So, what's your proposal?"

 

I have a fairly good command of the English language, and I made my case as eloquently as possible. In the end, she cried, held my hand, and said "Okay."

 

We made plans for the following Thursday. She is still dating this other guy, which is driving me bonana[sic?].

 

On Monday, I was driving my her place, partly to check on her (yes, I know this is bad) and saw HIS car outside. I called her, she told me she had a date (she had lied about it earlier that day when we talked on the phone) and I flipped out. He took off, I went over, and she was more angry than I have ever seen her. I pleaded with her not to see him again, and she said that she couldn't, that she wouldn't stop, that I couldn't expect her to throw away all the "progress" she had made in the past few months at being okay just because I had suddenly changed my mind. She was right. I was crazy.

 

She said, "If you don't leave RIGHT NOW, I'm not coming over tomorrow.(We had rescheduled for Tuesday since I thought Thursday was too far off). I argued with her for another 30 minutes. She said, "If you don't leave RIGHT NOW, I'm not coming over tomorrow. I don't even know why I'm saying this, since I told you the same thing thirty minutes ago!"

 

I, somehow, forced myself to stand, turn, and leave.

 

On Thursday, I made dinner, learned to dance, and cleaned my place from top to bottom, had a wonderful candlelit dinner. She wanted to go to a movie instead of out dancing like I had planned (she always wanted to go dancing but I was self-conscious. I had enough not to look stupid just for this evening), but she held my hand through the movie and kissed me goodnight. She told me over and over again how wonderful a time she was having.

 

God, this is a long story.

 

She said that we should go out again on Friday, so we did. She came over, brought dinner, and we watched a bunch of the new Doctor Who episodes, while spooning on the couch. She kissed me goodnight again, more like a real kiss this time.

On Saturday, we went apartment shopping for me (my six month lease is up) and she made breakfast and we ate it by the pool at her place. This morning she called me and asked me to come over for breakfast. We went out and had a wonderful time. Then, I went crazy again, and had to bring up the other guy, knowing that one of her friends had set her up to meet a friend of her husband next weekend. This was driving me nuts.We argued about it, she got mad, but I managed to calm things down before leaving. We left on good terms, and tomorrow I'm going over there for a date. To help me cope, she wrote me a note that says:

 

1. YOU ARE special.

2. I CARE about YOU

3. My relationship with you and decisions about "us" is not affected by anyone else or my dating others.

4. You are so beautiful to me.

 

I'm telling myself:

1. If she didn't love me, she wouldn't have agreed to date me again in the first place.

2. She's just protecting herself by seeing other guys, trying to keep from getting too involved again too fast. She did say, "I can't see myself getting emotionally involved with anyone for at least the next few years." I said, "I don't think I can handle this for the next few years." She said, "That doesn't include you, obviously." My father thinks this means that she's still in love with me. She even said, at one point, "You've got me, emotionally, but you have to convince my head, not my heart, that we can do this, that we can be different."

3. She holds my hand everywhere I go. She bought me a relationship book that she loves, and that, I have to say, sounds as if it was written about US. She kisses me goodnight.

 

I know some of her friends are wishing her luck, some are telling her how stupid she is for giving it another shot. (i think you can divide these into "Married" or "Single/Divorced," respectively. Why is that?)

 

Everyone keeps telling me to give her space, be strong, be assertive, pretend these other guys don't exist, and let her come to me. Don't push, don't obsess, don't call too much, drive by, or email too much.

 

What do you all think? Is there hope? What should I do?

 

And so concludes my latest novel. If you finished, you get a little gold star.

[shygurl]

Hi,

 

You're definitely a very articulate writer, I'll give you that !!

 

I, too, would be bothered by the fact that she's dating other men.......while also dating you. What's that all about? Is it that deep down she married you young and wants to see if the grass is greener on the other side but keep you around in case she learns it's not that green?

 

So your divorce isn't final, right? So it was filed in June - is it now still in the process of going through? Have you discussed that with her? Can it be 'stopped' because you 2 are dating and seeing where this goes?

 

It's interesting that she says she won't be ready to get seriously involved with someone for a couple of years......is she really saying she doesn't see getting back with you? I know she said that didn't pertain to you but if she was hoping to reconcile with you, the issues of getting involved seriously with someone other than you would be a moot point, no?

 

Would she be willing to go for marriage counselling? I think that would be important for you both - to deal with all that's gone on, the hurts you must both feel still, the uncertainty of where things stand.

 

Can you carry on like this for some time? what if she continues to date these other men and ends up falling in love with someone and it turns serious? Where will that leave you? I'm just afraid you'll be clinging to hope and then find out she's in love with someone else?

 

Why must she date other men if you 2 are dating? Why must she be with other men (I'm not saying sexually)? Is it that important to her?

[jmargel]

You are in massive head games right now. The ONLY way to fix this is if you two goto a marriage counselor right away. Talk to her, tell her you are going to one and you would really like her to join you. Find a licensed one and call them today or this week.

 

Right now it's just going in circles, but in the end she is going to have to make up her mind. She can't have both of you. She'll have to stop all contact with this guy if she wants to be with you. Don't bring up the other man right now, just talk to her about the counseling.

 

You two have had major problems way before all this started, alot of it is communication issues. The issue isn't really this 'other guy' right now, it's with all the things that were going on between you two before then. Granted having this guy compounds the problem, but let the counselor tell her that she needs to drop him if she wants the problems worked out between you two.

 

She is confused, just like you are. Very good chance what they have is not going to last. However in the mean time go schedule an appointment with the counselor. She wants action, not just words or showings of affection. This is how you accomplish it.

[PSmith]

I’m not sure if I would date her, while she’s dating other guys. The situation actually rewards her for not making a decision about the relationship. If she doesn’t make a choice, she can date other guys and still have you in her life. And it’s tearing you apart too. You’re stuck in limbo.

 

My advice.

 

Tell her you love her, you want to work on the marriage, but you feel that it can’t be done in the current situation. Tell her that when she’s decided to give up dating other guys, and is ready to work on the marriage, then to give you a call. Then walk out of her life and don’t look back.

 

What you need to do is work on yourself right now. See a therapist, learn to adjust and learn how to be a whole person without depending on anyone. From what I’ve read you admit to a lot of emotional problems, yet I see very little work being done to correct this. How can you work on your marriage, or any new relationship for that matter without first working on yourself.

 

After you’re done (months, years, who knows) you’ll be better prepared to live with her decision. Or maybe the choice will have been made before then. Either way you’ll be strong enough to handle it.

 

The way I see it, neither one of you are ready for the amount of work that would be needed to repair this marriage. You want to put the marriage back together without having the tools for the job, and she is just treading water hoping a choice will get made for her.

[New_Wife]

Email her the link to this thread. Let her read everything you have laid bare here & ask her, simply, to join you at the counselor's office.

 

Since you have demonstrated a pattern of passivity and indecision - I would suggest that YOU find a marriage counselor and set an appointment 2 weeks away - simply tell her what time and that you would really love to see her there. Take care of the bililng, etc. well before hand so that she can see you mean what you say, and are ready to take some serious charge of your emotions here.

 

Good luck to you.

[greenshift]

I understand the various points of view here, but I think you have to consider the fact that this turnaround on my part happened less than a week ago. To ask her to put herself in the situation where she'll have to through the heartbreak that we've been through over the past few months based on a few days of modified behavior would be, well, selfish, and pushy, and we all know that pushing someone, pressuring them never works.

 

This has to stop, but if I try and make it stop right now, by any method, it's just going to worsen the situation.

[jmargel]

Greenshift,

 

Counseling is the answer here. Trust us. Just tell her that you are setting up a time for yourself and you would like her to attend. There is no pressure then, that is her choice. If she chooses to do so, then you know she is serious about fixing things with you. If she's not then either she's not or thinks this is all going to work itself out in the end (which it won't).

 

You can't force her to go but you can make steps in the right direction. Doing what you are doing now is only going to have a negative outcome for you both.

[greenshift]

Already suggested, and she did not react well. I know that's what we need - believe me, I am on board. Still, she's warming up to me very quickly and, knowing her as I do, I don't think it will be long before she's willing. I'm already seeing a counselor by myself, which is helping a great deal. Even my counselor advised me to gently nudge, but not push her to move too quickly. I can be patient. I'll just crazy around my friends instead of around her. =(

 

- D

[New_Wife]

I think suggesting and doing are two totally different things. Perhaps you can ask your counselor for a referral to a marriage therapist (someone other than your personal counselor so it's neutral), and set up an appointment. Like Jmargel said, just tell her when it is and that you'd love to see her there.

[jmargel]

Greenshift,

 

Keep nudging her but I would make it very clear to her that this is both your marriage and having another guy involved only makes things worse. That you can't concentrate on the problems between you two when there's another guy out there. Personally I would give her the ultamatium, either him or you. You don't have to be mean or loud about it to get your point across, just tell her. Then be prepared to follow through depending on what she says.

 

If you keep nurturing her and allowing her to do this it's only going to have a bad outcome for you. I think you know that in your heart. Good chance she's seeing this guy because of what she felt when you dated that girl. Seeing others is NOT the way to mend a marriage.

[greenshift]

I understand and agree. To be honest, we've been spending so much time together lately that I don't think she's had time to see anyone else. Still, that's not the point. I've told myself that I'll give it a month and, if she's still not willing to be exclusive, then I'll have to make a decision (and I know what that decision is, just having a hard time articulating it.) I don't want to be anyone's doormat - too much self respect for that, but, like you said, she's probably doing this because of the way she felt when I was dating. I feel like I owe her some room, at least temporarily.

 

Besides, I'm so much better looking than that guy I can't even begin to describe it. =) Rome wasn't built in a day. This needs to be her idea - won't work coming from me.

[jmargel]

No no no no no no no

 

It doesn't matter if it comes from her, and giving her space? If you ask/want her to only be with you and she agrees, it's the same as her coming upto you and saying 'I decided not to see him anymore I want to work on us'.

 

And it doesn't matter if you are better looking, you don't seem to get it. You two are lacking things from each other and it's not looks. That's why you two are fighting so much and it has esculated to this. You both need to work on your communication to each other and express what YOU need and what SHE needs. If she's not willing to go through with it, then tell her to leave.

 

Your marriage is only going to work if you both put 100/100 into it. How can you expect to fix the problems between you two when another guy is around?

[greenshift]

I don't. I expect to get her to ditch the other guy on the way to working on our marriage.

 

I have no illusions about having a happy relationship while she's seeing other people. However, I also know that, based on what I know of the situation and details that I probably haven't relayed, that giving her an ultimatum, today, can only have one outcome, and it's not what I want.

 

Just pretend I'm doing exactly what you say, but in slow motion, because that is, effectively, what's happening here.

[jmargel]

So then call her bluff. You really think she is going to walk? When everything is on the line? Why would she ditch this guy when you are accepting and tolerating it? If she's going to walk now then she's going to walk in the future.

 

I expect to get her to ditch the other guy on the way to working on our marriage

 

On the way to working on your marriage? When will this be? She's not working on it now. "Forsaking all others" is a big part of your marriage vows, as you know. I'm not trying to attack you it's just I am kinda in a similiar situation. I thought my wife would walk when I told her to leave. I got the opposite response.

 

Your marriage can't be worked on until she tells this guy it's over. Otherwise she's just using you as a safety net while she has her fun. I know you are trying to rationalize here, I've done the same thing. It doesn't work though. You didn't get her because you waited around while she had fun with other men. You got her because she respected you, she fell for all the good you possess.

 

Read NiceGuyMojo's post and see where his adventures took him. He too was hestitant about putting his foot down, now that he finally did things are starting to happen.

[greenshift]

Scary. It's a lot to think about.

 

Thanks.

[jmargel]

I know it's scary. It's because you are putting everything on the line, however she is doing this now by what she has done to you.

 

Do you really want to be dragged through the mud for the next few months why living on edge? It's no way to live a life. Tell her you are committed to this marriage and you truly want this to work but you can't see how it will while she is seeing this other guy. That you NEED from her is this guy out of your marriage. That you need from her is honesty and the willingness to get through these problems together. That what hurts her, hurts you and that you both married each other for your good and the problems you would each encounter. That this is something you get through TOGETHER.

 

If she's not willing to do that, then my friend you have no choice but to leave. Let her face reality to what she is truly losing.

[RecordProducer]

Your wife is sleeping with someone else (she hides it from you cuz she doesn't want you to sleep with other women) and it's partially your fault. Instead of working on your marriage, you both want to run away. You got into this marriage immature and crave for living your lives to the fullest (she more than you), but this is going to end up badly if you don't take certain actions right now. Come back home and tell her that she is not allowed to date any guys anymore or you will divorce her once for good. If she loves you, she will be happy to hear that. If she likes screwing this guy better than you then find your happiness with another woman while you're still very young. You don't have any kids, do you?

[greenshift]

No kids, thankfully. She's wanted one for some time but we both recognized that our relationship was unstable enough to make that an unwise decision.

 

So, things changed. On Sunday we talked, and she admitted that back in early April she had lied to me about going to have a drink with this guy, having said that she was meeting a friend, instead. We weren't living together, were still sleeping together, but we both believed things were on the way out, had even discussed property distribution, etc.

 

So, she lied. I asked, "So, when you said that you kissed him once, and it didn't take, was that true?"

 

"No."

 

"Have you slept with him?"

 

Her, trying very hard not to cry openly, "Yes."

 

My breath left me. My heart stopped. My mind screamed.

My body stood, walked to the dining room table, dug its fingernails into the back of a chair and counted slowly to infinity.

 

And the, I turned. And I saw her, stoic, trying not to let me see what she was feeling, but I know her; I know every breath, every gesture, every nanometer lift of an eyebrow. She was in pain, she was afraid, she was hurting.

 

I remembered how I felt when I told her about my (one night) affair four years ago, remembered how much I wondered if I was doing the right thing, if I should just keep it from her to protect her feelings. Remembered the fear of spending the rest of my life lying to her, every day.

 

And, just then, I knew how she was feeling. I felt it.

 

I walked back to her, sat down next to her, kissed her, a real kiss, pulled her to me and told her that it was okay, that everything would be alright, that I loved her, that I was glad she told me, again that it would be okay. She cried. I held her. Time stopped, and passed, all at once.

 

Eventually, we both calmed down, and I sat back, held her hand, looked her in the eye and said, "I have a few questions."

 

"Okay." Afraid, so afraid.

 

"Are you still sleeping with him?"

 

"No."

 

"When was the last time?"

 

"Two days before you came back from San Francisco."

 

"Does he know that you're not sleeping with him anymore?"

 

"Yes."

 

"Does he know why?"

 

"Yes."

 

"Are you going to see him again?"

 

"No."

 

"Good. What if he calls?"

 

"He won't. "

 

"If he does?"

 

"I won't make a date with him."

 

"Thank you. Are you going to call him?"

 

"No."

 

"You realize that seeing him again, in any capacity, is completely incompatible with what we're trying to do here, right?"

 

"Yes."

 

And, so, he's out of picture. We discussed a few other things, more lies, hurt feelings. Finally, I asked, calmly as I had tried to be throughout this hell,

 

"Why didn't you tell me?"

 

"I don't know. I thought I would lose you forever."

 

One of L's traits is that she always says what's on her mind - and that means how she is feeling RIGHT NOW, not necessarily a reasoned, logical expression backed by any amount of consideration.

 

That was the last time we argued (Monday). After that we did some things she wanted to do, watched some more Doctor Who ( a common interest of ours), had drinks and dinner. She agreed to come to see my counselor with me next week (I offered a neutral therapist, but she thought this was better). We had a wonderful evening, and she kissed me on the cheek goodnight.

 

Tuesday morning I brought over breakfast on my way to work. I asked if it was alright if I asked a few more questions, she said yes. I asked, she answered, I believed her. I decided to trust her. I told her that. I told her I loved her.

 

Then, I turned it all off. I decided that what we need is some time just having *fun* being around each other, enjoying each other's company, to let her remember that it doesn't always have to be deep, painful, emotional discussions. We had a wonderful breakfast, a nice phone conversation that evening. We have a date on Friday and, if I have anything to say about it, we'll go dancing, look silly for trying, and have a blast.

 

She told me the truth. She stopped seeing him. I trust her, and, even though that may make me a glutton for punishment in the long run, she's worth the risk. WE are worth the risk.

 

I haven't been this calm, this serene, in weeks, months, years. I know she loves me, even if she isn't quite ready to admit it to herself. I can tell by her actions, by the way she looks at me, hugs me.

 

So, you all were mostly right. Next ideas?

 

Thanks, everyone. Venting really helps.

[jmargel]

I'm glad things have finally gotten out into the open. You say you trust her, but honestly it will take alot for you to fully trust her with all your heart. Even after months or years go by you might only trust her 99%, just like she does you after you had your affair. Continue going to MC with her, for as long as it takes. This could a process that takes months to finally get to the root of the problems. If she didn't use protection, get tested.

 

Remember there is no just one talk, and by her answering your questions when needed, that's a good sign. You are right that the marriage can't be based on deep emotional conversations all the time, you need to remember WHY you are with them. Why you chosen her out of all the millions out there. You also have to acknowledge not everyday is going to be a good one. You'll have days where you'll resent what she's done but you also have to remember why this has happened too.

 

Don't give all your love and trust back just yet. Remember she's been lying to you for a very long time. Giving her too much back, too soon will only diminish the value she sees in what she's done wrong. Glad things are heading back on the right track. Good luck!

[greenshift]

I really wish I had listened more closely to the advice I received here. Would have saved my a lot of pain.

[oldshirt]

Please share your experience.

[greenshift]

Please share your experience.

 

Well, ok. Give me a minute. (Says someone who notes the date on the last message was from a year ago.)

[greenshift]

I'm posting this for a few reasons.

 

PART ONE: The WHY

 

(Author's note: if you haven't read any of my other posts, you might not be prepared for my verbosity. Oh, well.)

 

This is the LEAST significant reason why I'm writing this.

 

I hope that, in some way, this will help someone else *before* its too late.

 

We all hope that. We all hope to be selfless on some level. But, ultimately, everything I've written here, including this, is selfish. Because I wanted to be validated, I wanted to be reassured, and I wanted everyone to Be On My Side.

 

Tough ****. Turns out people are actually, in certain contexts, Smart, Observant, Honest and Selfless. The anonymity offered by this forum, in the literally questionable sense, encourages those traits. And, for that, I am eternally grateful and in awe of what has been created, and thrives. Moving on!

 

Having been through Stuff (capitalization intended), I doubt that will happen. Unfortunately, I now believe that you have to actually go through this **** in order to see how not to go through this ****. A lot of people, here and elsewhere, gave me really solid advice (not to mention support that, literally, saved my life), and I ignored most of it, thinking, mostly:

 

"Oh, but you don't know her."

 

or

 

"Maybe I didn't explain this correctly."

 

or

 

[insert Every Other Pemutation Here. ]

 

I've lived my entire life on one end or the other of the bell curve. Dropped out of high school, now I teach (part time) grad school at a relatively prestigious university. Flew out of Logan airport on Sep 10, 2001 on a cross-country flight. Childhood home in Moore, OK destroyed by an F5 tornado. Left London the day before they found a couple of Mercedes in the West End filled with explosives and shrapnel, about two blocks from my hotel. Got The Bends. Randomly became type 1 diabetic when I was 36. Finally diagnosed as bipolar when I was 32, a few years after I started the thread that prompted this post. I stopped counting at 12 suicide attempts. Two put me in the hospital, one had a team of surgeons playing poker at 3AM waiting to see if I needed to be cracked open.

 

I'm beyond grateful that, on that last point, I didn't succeed. And, believe me, it wasn't for lack of trying.

 

ALL OF US have a story. ALL OF US have very good reasons to think that we're different. If you're reading this, I sincerely hope that you are, and that your significant other is, also, different than what we have come to expect.

 

But, I have to ask: what are the odds?

 

My posts are long, so I'm going to start another message for the details.

 

Like it or leave it.

 

PS

 

I just noticed this is my 128th message.

 

I'm an engineer, so that has special significance. Happy 7th birthday!

[greenshift]

PART TWO: Post-Prologue

 

So:

 

1. She hadn't stopped seeing him.

 

2. Someone may or may not have repeatedly posted Backpage ads for Adult Companionship with the phone number 214-641-7062, call any time day or night. Not that I'm still bitter or anything.

 

Moving on.

 

We eventually wound up in counseling, for exactly one session. This was with the counselor I'd been seeing individually for a month or so. X showed up and immediately said that she'd have to leave early because of work. Which was, honestly, pretty believable, though I suspected it was a premature excuse to get out if she wanted to.

 

Silly, considering she was already doing whatever, with whomever, she wanted. But, I digress.

 

Let's skip the next few months other than to say: she thought that she was helping me through this by spending time with me, and didn't think she was leading me on.

 

This ultimately turned into my leaving a bar after a beer with a few friends, where I really, really tried not to make the whole evening about my drama. They're really good friends, and went along with it. About 20 feet down the street, I ran into X, standing at a valet parking stand with a guy, with his arms around her (it was cold, but not THAT cold) waiting on, I'm guessing, a car. I said "hi", she jumped, I kept walking.

 

Two days later I was driven to the ER by my brother after having consumed a pretty significant quantity of some sort of drain cleaner.

 

Don't worry, I lived.

 

I only say that because you looked a little concerned.

 

Moving on.

 

My (large) family made it clear to her that her presence wasn't helping me, and that it was best for me if she stopped talking to me.

 

I hated them for this, and didn't really speak to them much, for many years. They put my welfare ahead of my affection for them. I hope that I will have the strength to do that for my children if it becomes necessary.

 

This is the hard part:

 

I wound up dating my counselor's administrative assistant.

 

Yeah, really.

 

Also, they were (and still are) roommates.

 

Yeah, really really.

 

We got married. After about 2 months. (The assistant, not the counselor.)

 

She's a good person, on some levels. That was her third marriage. She's about 5 years older than me, had a kid already (amazing, wonderful child, whom I am priveleged to have known), but was affectionate, understanding, supportive and, at the end of the day, only about half as messed up as I was at that point.

 

It took longer to get divorced than we spent in the same house.

 

Advice from my sister-in-law: don't marry the rebound girl.

 

If I'd posted here about the issues that she and I had, well: it wouldn't have helped, because I was SURE that this girl really loved me, really took her vowes seriously, and, like me, was willing to do whatever it took to stay together.

 

Yeah: not so much.

 

At the end, my family planned a ski trip. My parents decided to take all 4 kids (me and siblings), spouses, and, at that time, I'm guessing 12 grandkids. X2 (as I shall label her) declared that "they can't afford that!" (I have no idea if they can, but have no reason to think they can't), and "we should pay for our own trip" (yeah... it's a little offensive to reject a gift in my family), "they're going to the wrong mountain. We should go to ....." (which, btw, sucked).

 

Higlights:

 

1. Don't marry your counselor's secretary. It's a bad idea, and it might be illegal.

 

2. If your wife says she wants a divorce, moves her **** out, and then asks you for a couple of grand to pay for a trip, which you are no longer welcome to attent, just don't give it to her. Really, it won't help.

 

3. Kids. They deserve better. A LOT better. My deepest regret about this chapter is that her daughter saw us fighting, a lot. She also got to see that with her mother and father, and with her father her step-mother. I can only imagine what she thinks a normal, sane marriage is supposed to look like.

 

This one didnt end with me in a hospital, just spending a lot of time with my family for awhile.

 

About a year later, I finished my BSEE (at 32, started arounmd 27), had a nice graduation party, and met my wife.

 

Part 3.... well, after I sleep I'll post something less self-indulgent.

 

But:

 

1. It's never easy.

2. I'd be dead without her, no question.

3. Boys 7 and 4, baby girl almost 2. (We're stopping at one kid.)

4. It'll be 8 years in October. It has not been an easy journey, but we're both committed. (I actually told her up front that, if this wasn't working out, please just whack me in the head with a shovel and bury me in the back yard. I'm done after three tries.)