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Old 26th September 2017, 11:19 AM   #16
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I have spent the last 10 yrs having in depth difficult conversations (every 4 to 6mo) about concerns with our relationship, or what I'm needing or wanting to work on. I've expressed my concern about him not ever wanting to do anything with me and expressed why i need that. I also expressed the importance of us having vulnerable conversations and the need to have an open honest relationship. I have also expressed my concern about our sex life, how its become lazy and one sided.
What does he say during these conversations? Does he promise to do better and then not follow through, or does he dismiss your concerns entirely?

How was the sexual and romantic aspect of your R early on? Was it always this way, or did something change?
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Old 26th September 2017, 11:20 AM   #17
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Anah,

I found the first post very reasonable.

She was not judging you, she was simply pointing out that it makes sense that you are unhappy in your relationship because many other women would be very unhappy in your situation as well.
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Old 26th September 2017, 4:23 PM   #18
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Hi Anah,

I've been with my bf going on 6 years and we've faced similar dynamic problems in our relationship. Though I'm the introvert in our relationship, my bf is naturally reticent and inexpressive, so communication between us has been hard. I am also the more sexual in our relationship and we've had many challenges there.

I'm only a few years younger than you, and have chosen to stay in my relationship because of my needs for security/stability/safety as well. I think a person can seem wonderful or have really great traits, but not be suitable for a particular type of relationship when you weigh other factors.

A partner who will do what you ask and listen to you and make you feel heard is indeed wonderful. My partner does the same for me and I appreciate these things about him a lot. The things is, when someone truly loves you and wants you to be happy with them, they will learn how to do these things with you and for you. Some have to work at it harder than others, but in a mutually loving relationship both parties work at it. The other thing is alot of partners wouldn't consider a relationship fulfilling based on those things alone. I've been all over the internet, read dozens of relationship and self help books, talked to friends and family to understand this latter part. Some of the things that really are critical to a happy romantic relationship do not get the clout they deserve.

Your husband may have great qualities and do some actions that seem loving, but he is not providing what you need in a romantic relationship to be happy. You've told him this more than once and whatever his reasons, he has not met or tried to meet these needs. The real kicker here, as you've touched on in your options I think, is that these are needs you typically can't get fulfilled in any other type of relationship. So it's not like you can go somewhere else and get what you need while still considering this a romantic relationship. Some people can do that but it doesn't sound like you'd be comfortable with that.

The thing that urged me to respond most though, is that you sell your own needs short. You talk like your needs are trivial and selfish and not worth fulfilling. In the last couple of years I've had to work on this a lot. Honor yourself and your needs. Your need for sexual satisfaction is just as important as your need for security. Your need for emotional intimacy matters just as much as having a unified family. They're equally important, and it's NOT unreasonable or out of the ordinary for you to have both in a loving romantic relationship. And you may not explicitly state "my needs are valid" to your husband when you talk to him, but I'd be surprised if that tendency to minimize your needs doesn't come through in the way you talk about these issues.

I didn't think I'd ever be one to offer ultimatums, but the sustained progress we've had in the last half a year in our relationship issues came about because I was finally, well and truly, willing to walk away from the relationship if something didn't change. I went through years of depressive phases, crying, arguing, passive aggressive behavior, general irritation with my bf pretty much all the time. That pattern got progressively worse for 2.5 years or so. I went through all that because I felt like I had to stay. We don't have children though, I understand that changes things. But I think you have to tell yourself that you will leave at a predefined time if you don't get what you need, and really be ok with that decision. Knowing that my life can be different and better without my bf, and that I can have that life whenever I choose, sapped so much of my negative emotional energy out of my approach to these issues. Believing that I have the choice to leave at any time, and being ok with what that choice means for the present and future, has granted me patience, renewed appreciation, and willingness to meet him where he's at so we can work together on our intimacy.

Sorry for such a long post, but I hope you find some of this helpful. Good luck.

Edit: yikes! My sense of timing is way off. My formal ultimatum " going to leave talk". Was only a couple weeks ago. My timeline may change your perspective on this advice, though I think it still applies. I just don't want to misrepresent my process on this.
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Last edited by Almond_Joy; 26th September 2017 at 4:37 PM.. Reason: Spelling errors and some rewording
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Old 26th September 2017, 8:41 PM   #19
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op,
sad as it is to say, it could come down to this.

It sounds like the status quo isn't working for you, and that means it won't work for your marriage. Do you think he would respond if you tried to shock him out of his complacency by telling him you are near the end of your rope and there needs to be some changes or you will have to reevaluate if the relationship is really what you want?

How much of a change do you feel you need to be happy int he relationship? If he can't go that far, would you be okay with meeting him half way, so long as you knew he was trying?
I have had the conversation that i dont have much give left. Its not that he simply isn't trying. I think there is 2 things going on, one, hes doesnt understand. I spend hours trying to explain what I'm trying to get across before he understands.... then a week or two later its like we have never hand the conversation. And then in 4 to 6 mo we have yet another conversation. And before anyone says it, its not a matter of him not being smart. Hes a very smart man. Second, he doesnt know what to do about it. I think if i could fix those, it would make a big difference.
As far as meeting him half way, all relationships you sometimes have to compromise. In fact i feel its important.
As for marriage counciling, yes WE are open to that if we could find a good MC and an actual licensed MC. That said, my research on MC doesnt look promising.
As for the comment about me trying to change him... Thats incorrect. Im not. I have always known he was an introvert. The issue isnt the routine, the issue is him not putting any effort to our relationship any more.
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Old 26th September 2017, 8:58 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Elswyth View Post
What does he say during these conversations? Does he promise to do better and then not follow through, or does he dismiss your concerns entirely?

How was the sexual and romantic aspect of your R early on? Was it always this way, or did something change?
He doesnt say much at first. He tries to take it all in. He agrees.. we make plans to move forward and then nothing happens.. he may be good for 2 days... the longest has been a week and then we are back to square one.
Sex before was very good.. im extremely sexual person and would no way have married him if we didn't have that chemistry too. Like i stated before, what chsnged ... he became comfortable and lazy. He stopped trying.. im here and not going anywhere attitude.
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Old 26th September 2017, 9:54 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Almond_Joy View Post
Hi Anah,

I've been with my bf going on 6 years and we've faced similar dynamic problems in our relationship. Though I'm the introvert in our relationship, my bf is naturally reticent and inexpressive, so communication between us has been hard. I am also the more sexual in our relationship and we've had many challenges there.

I'm only a few years younger than you, and have chosen to stay in my relationship because of my needs for security/stability/safety as well. I think a person can seem wonderful or have really great traits, but not be suitable for a particular type of relationship when you weigh other factors.

A partner who will do what you ask and listen to you and make you feel heard is indeed wonderful. My partner does the same for me and I appreciate these things about him a lot. The things is, when someone truly loves you and wants you to be happy with them, they will learn how to do these things with you and for you. Some have to work at it harder than others, but in a mutually loving relationship both parties work at it. The other thing is alot of partners wouldn't consider a relationship fulfilling based on those things alone. I've been all over the internet, read dozens of relationship and self help books, talked to friends and family to understand this latter part. Some of the things that really are critical to a happy romantic relationship do not get the clout they deserve.

Your husband may have great qualities and do some actions that seem loving, but he is not providing what you need in a romantic relationship to be happy. You've told him this more than once and whatever his reasons, he has not met or tried to meet these needs. The real kicker here, as you've touched on in your options I think, is that these are needs you typically can't get fulfilled in any other type of relationship. So it's not like you can go somewhere else and get what you need while still considering this a romantic relationship. Some people can do that but it doesn't sound like you'd be comfortable with that.

The thing that urged me to respond most though, is that you sell your own needs short. You talk like your needs are trivial and selfish and not worth fulfilling. In the last couple of years I've had to work on this a lot. Honor yourself and your needs. Your need for sexual satisfaction is just as important as your need for security. Your need for emotional intimacy matters just as much as having a unified family. They're equally important, and it's NOT unreasonable or out of the ordinary for you to have both in a loving romantic relationship. And you may not explicitly state "my needs are valid" to your husband when you talk to him, but I'd be surprised if that tendency to minimize your needs doesn't come through in the way you talk about these issues.

I didn't think I'd ever be one to offer ultimatums, but the sustained progress we've had in the last half a year in our relationship issues came about because I was finally, well and truly, willing to walk away from the relationship if something didn't change. I went through years of depressive phases, crying, arguing, passive aggressive behavior, general irritation with my bf pretty much all the time. That pattern got progressively worse for 2.5 years or so. I went through all that because I felt like I had to stay. We don't have children though, I understand that changes things. But I think you have to tell yourself that you will leave at a predefined time if you don't get what you need, and really be ok with that decision. Knowing that my life can be different and better without my bf, and that I can have that life whenever I choose, sapped so much of my negative emotional energy out of my approach to these issues. Believing that I have the choice to leave at any time, and being ok with what that choice means for the present and future, has granted me patience, renewed appreciation, and willingness to meet him where he's at so we can work together on our intimacy.

Sorry for such a long post, but I hope you find some of this helpful. Good luck.

Edit: yikes! My sense of timing is way off. My formal ultimatum " going to leave talk". Was only a couple weeks ago. My timeline may change your perspective on this advice, though I think it still applies. I just don't want to misrepresent my process on this.
Wow.. you are correct. I didnt stop to think that that's what i was doing but your right, I am. I do play down my needs but If you look at the bigger picture, these few needs are small and in a way selfish. Honestly i could have it way worse. I'll come back to that in a few..
I also want to make sure im not going through some midlife crisis.
I honestly kinda feel you sorta do get it.
As for my other options- yes i could ask for that but i personal have always wanted to have that with the person im with, which is why i struggle with even trying to go there. And honestly.. unless im polly (which im not) that would work but in my case (or most peoples case) its simply a bandaid and complicates things more. And i simply think its selfish too.

It's not just the sexual. Its the communication or lack off.. I feel these 2 come hand n hand. Because these two things I'm struggling with in our relationship I'm slowly (if not already gone) losing the love i had for him. Or the depth we had. I honestly keep trying to tell myself its a phase I'm going through, but can one go through such a long phase. Lol
So back to my needs. Yes i put my needs on the back burner and do tend to feel its selfish, that said.. you are right i so tend to down play it because i dont see that a good enough reason to effect so many peoples lives especially my children over my need for emotional care. I have a strong feeling (and researched) that many people live the exact life im living because they are comfoetable which isnt so bad. I'm not sure if i am capable or not.
That said.. lets say i decide to leave.. i would want to make sure i can walk away saying i have done everything. I dont want to hurt him. I dont want to hurt my children. Our friends or relatives. Anytime relationships change it effects a lot of people. So really the only thing i haven't tried is a MC. Which i feel its not going to help, i hope it proves me wrong.. but once thats done and i decide to leave.. then comes the process of me leaving. I wont leave until my son graduates. So how do i seperate that relationship without effecting my child. Without him knowing. Ive thought about moving into another room. My biggest issue is not effecting my child over my needs. Ive seen the difference with raising a child with both parents verse.. bouncing between parents. Hes a very rounded child and doing good and i dont want to effect that or change it. He didnt sign up for this. Do you have children with your husband?
I can't just do an ultimatum and leave. I simply won't.. 6 yrs feom now.. i could but currently i cant.
So if i do decide to approach the talk of im done and i want to seperate.. how do i approach that? How do i do that without effecting my children? Is it even possible to seperate and stay here till grad.. doubtful.
Another thought... lets say i open up the thought of a online relationship (again not surei could or that would be enough) how would i approach that. More importantly how could i ask that of my hubby. Isnt that selfish.
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Old 27th September 2017, 10:03 AM   #22
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Hi Anah,

As an introvert myself, I don't think your husband's introversion has anything to do with him being emotionally open.

I do think that his lack of emotional openness is at the crux of your issues though.
I think that's why you see progress for a very short time and then it just stops.
He gets scared to lose you when you make it known that you are unhappy with how things are, opens up for a small amount of time by putting effort in, and then closes up again.
The routines you've both created are emotionally distant and safer for him, and it comes across as lack of caring.

I think he'd probably have to lose you or at least feel he has lost you for him to change and realize he needs to stay open to you for this to work.

That is just my hunch, and I could be wrong.
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Old 27th September 2017, 10:49 AM   #23
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I feel your pain, I almost felt like I was writing this post but have been married longer and no children. I too have been struggling, I just don't know how to fix it. I wish I had advice for you. Just want you to know your not alone. I know some people would say get divorced if your not happy but it's not that easy when you still love and care for them. I don't really want to throw 27 years away. I will be checking in to see how your doing.
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Old 28th September 2017, 9:28 AM   #24
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Anah,

I feel your pain and the struggle. I am an Extrovert who is married to an Introvert. Almost 25 years for me. I have been contemplating divorce for years. I am also way more sexual than my husband and fear breaking up the family unit.
What I want to say is I get it. I get how you feel, I understand your struggle because he is a "Good" guy and you love him.
I sense that deep down you want to end this relationship but you feel frozen to do so. That's where I'm at also. People on this site have strong opinions about how that should be cut and dry...END it, don't you dare end it (seek counseling), but nothing about relationships is that easy. Especially when children are involved.

I too have had "The Talk" with my husband just about every other year about opening up to me more. It feels like talking to a wall. He listens and looks at me and says,"I think everything with us is fine, great. We don't argue. OMG... maybe that's part of the problem. He is also "vanilla" and can't be who he is not. But neither can I or you.
Truth is, we picked our spouse based on many qualities we saw. They have remained the same, believe it or not, perhaps we have changed or realized we played a role, Wife & Mother and now we are looking at the relationship and realizing we want more?

One thing I want to caution you on...when your son graduates, you will be looking at just the two of you. If he doesn't do anything with you now, you will be even lonelier when your son is out of the house. That is not going to feel any better, much worse actually.
You want to stay until your son is graduated. I get that, it's the hardest part, I think. Do you think you'll be able to stifle how you are feeling for that long?

I felt the same way, fast forward 3 years post the youngest graduating and I am still here, still having a difficult time letting go and asking for a divorce.
My needs, and your needs as well ,should matter. The problem is, how much do we value those needs? People are affected by divorce, not just the couple, but does it have to be a devastating, horrible thing? I don't think it does. I think you can say that we had a great run. We are different people with different needs and personalities and now the time has come to experience life separately.

I watched a video about ,"How to Tell Your Spouse You Want a Divorce". It made sense to me. The man talks about not laying blame. Simply stating, "I feel we are not happy and have decided that the marriage needs to end. I won't blame or fight you and I hope you do the same" Then you state I need to give you some time to process things, so I am leaving for the night and I hope we can talk when I return. The way you handle it can make a huge difference. Also, that makes a huge difference in how children react. If the couple is o.k. (of course hurt and sad) but work together and also tell the children that that is what they will do, no fighting, will always be warmth and have love for one another, then it can make all the difference. Of course that takes time and takes both parties being on the same page. But it's a thought process.

I am not saying you should divorce but what I know about my own experience in talking and talking and hoping for change, is that BOTH parties have to want it and do it and work it often. That's hard to do for anyone. We all tend to get stuck in who we are, especially the older we get. His needs (Your husband's) may be way different than your needs and sounds like they are.

Perhaps you can approach yet another conversation by asking him what his needs are NOW in the relationship. Then state what your REAL needs are NOW in the relationship. Ask him if you two can meet each others needs. He may think he is meeting them fine, but clearly he is not.

I do think men respond well to frankness, even when it hurts. I don't think he really knows how serious you may be to possibly end things. You are already planning to when your son graduates. That's a long time to decide whether to hang on when needs are not met....

I wish you the best of luck. I hear you love him, I hear you saying it's all so hard, it is! But do decide what are your needs you can live with and what are the ones you can not live without.
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Old 28th September 2017, 11:18 AM   #25
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I have heard a lot of advice...

I have heard a lot of advice...For the OP. But I think we should be more real in general.

Once again, we have a "Good Man" that is not doing what he needs to do to make his partner happy. (especially sexually)

I know that it happens a lot on both the male and female side of the street.

For OP - yes he is a good man, good father. But if he and you do not have a sexual and romantic connection, how good of a marriage is it.

I can't tell you how many time men and women have written here about their low sex/no sex/vanilla sex relationships.

I for one actually am pretty hard nosed about this. As a man, if I am not meeting my partners sexual and emotional needs, I am not doing my job.

I think it is wrong for anyone to get so complacent about a relationship that the just, what??, lose interest? I have never understood it. If you love someone I feel you should want to be sexual with them, and you should do whatever they need to meet their needs.

So in your situation, if no amount of talking and counseling or therapy will help your husband wake up, you have to think about leaving.

Maybe, very slight chance, that he would allow you to have a FWB or an open relationship so that you can get your sexual needs met if he will not.

Your children will be affected no matter when you choose to divorce, and you have to ask how much of your life and happiness you are willing to sacrifice for your children. And you have to understand that there will be some affect on them no matter when you make the move.

I feel like people in your situation have a right to be happy and sexually fulfilled.

On the other hand, being a jerk to your husband because he is lazy or clueless is really not the way to go. Better to get out of the marriage or fix it one way or another...
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Old 28th September 2017, 11:38 AM   #26
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OP,

if you ask him about what he wants sexually, what does he say?


One thing about advice on here. While most of it is really great and very heartfelt, we cam only really get one side of the story, which is the nature of an internet forum.

Put yourself in his shoes. If he were to post on here about your marriage, what do you think he would say?

fwiw ( and this isn't a criticism of you, just an observation), I am an introvert who is married to an extrovert. Sometimes, it can be really difficult.

He's a good husband, but we used to have a real problem discussing any issues that we would have. He would talk and talk, and I'd just sit there, waiting for a pause. He took that as a cue to keep right on talking.

Once he was finished, he'd get annoyed because I didn't respond. It wasn't that I didn't want to, it was that I needed time to sort through what he said and think about how I wanted to answer.

he took that to mean I didn't care about what he said, which wasn't true. After a while, I just stopped responding, because he wasn't hearing what I was saying. He thought he did, but he was often way off.

I really wish I had more helpful advice for you, but all I really have is a question...

It sounds like you are not very happy, but you say he is. How do you know that?
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Old 5th October 2017, 8:22 PM   #27
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Hi OP. I think there are many people here who have posted on your thread who are sincerely trying to help you. In my opinion, I believe you and your husband are struggling with compatibility. Certainly he is a good man, and you are a good woman. Just that it seems he is able to offer "x" while you are needing "y."

Regardless, one thing that I think you should consider, that has yet to be mentioned on your thread, is that you should try individual counseling. It would be good to explore exactly what your needs are and possibly get some professional advice about effectively communicating those to your husband. A good licensed counselor can point out things that you may not have yet considered in yourself, your and your husband's relationship pattern, and ideas about how to more effectively get your message through besides giving you a professional opinion about what is going on. Good counselors with much experience have seen patterns in other people's marriages, and ways that others either resolved issues or reasons why they didn't. You would benefit from that knowledge.

Personally I go to individual counseling sessions with a licensed counselor who counsels tons of married couples, too. I appreciate the insight she provides from the work she does with couples as well as individuals.
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Old 8th October 2017, 2:30 PM   #28
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My marriage is a roomate situation as well. Two years no sex. Avoid eachother only talk to purchase milk. I actually stopped caring and stopped bringing things up, and distancing myself. This had a great effect on me mentally and she started getting worried because she thought she might lose me. She asked me what she could do to change things. I said changed what I begged from you for years four years ago.
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Old 13th October 2017, 11:59 AM   #29
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Once again, we have a "Good Man" that is not doing what he needs to do to make his partner happy. (especially sexually)

I know that it happens a lot on both the male and female side of the street.

For OP - yes he is a good man, good father. But if he and you do not have a sexual and romantic connection, how good of a marriage is it.

I can't tell you how many time men and women have written here about their low sex/no sex/vanilla sex relationships.


Bluespowers- I guess I wanted to start by saying the only person that can make me happy, is me. That said I think I understand what you're trying to say and in all honesty for the longest time he thought he was making me happy. I have done quite a bit of research on the topic and have found that most guys thank they are pleasing their partner. Many guys feel that because their partner is enjoying the session, (moaning, bagging, wetness etc.. ) they feel they are getting as much out of the session as they are. In the guys defense, many females sometimes fake their enjoyment two stroke their Partners ego. Many women also don't express what they're lacking. I do not and have not ever done that because I feel it's counterproductive. He simply didn't get it, (I wont go into details openly) till i stressed leaving. The issue now, he doesn't know what to do and I think he is hoping it will all blow over.
one of the biggest challenges that most of us face in any relationship is the ability to have an open honest conversation. Many of us are afraid of being judged, left, or the consequences after the conversation.
I don't like publicly putting my relationship issues out there but there is two reasons I even entertained posting.. 1. I wanted to bounce things off of other people and reflect on it. Which some of the comments have been actually extremely helpful. I have taking some time to reflect on comments made here and have then talk to my husband again. which I will post about later. 2. I'm hoping that people with similar situations will get something out of this post and maybe they will also find it helpful.
In my opinion it's very crucial to be able to have difficult conversations in order to have the best fulfilling relationship.
as for the FWB I have asked several times and been left with a big no in response.
As for how I treat , you are correct. I don't intentionally do that and actually since posting I haven't done that since. Being able to express that that's what I was doing, I was able to reflect on that and feel I have gotten it under control. Which I will also explain in a later post.
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Old 13th October 2017, 12:13 PM   #30
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if you ask him about what he wants sexually, what does he say?

I have asked and he shuts down. He either doesn't reply or says he gets what he wants sexually.

he took that to mean I didn't care about what he said, which wasn't true. After a while, I just stopped responding, because he wasn't hearing what I was saying. He thought he did, but he was often way off.

I find the above comment helpful and I will have to reflect on that a little.

It sounds like you are not very happy, but you say he is. How do you know that? - because i asked.
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