Wife's depression and the effects on the Relationship

[kgcolonel]

I've been around for a while and am just looking for some ideas. Been married to my wife for 34 years, learned after marrying that she had been physically and emotionally abused by her parents for all of her childhood and teenage years. This has and is having a significant effect on our R. We have been to MC for 2 years, last year she was admitted to in-patient care due to suicidal thoughts etc. She is medicated and under a Dr's care now but is really not participatory in our relationship to the extent that I need. She is a SAHW, our only son is educated, employed and living independently and we have a good relationship with him.

 

We are both in our mid to late 50's, and I am ready to begin to have "fun" in our adult life. She, due to the abuse, is extremely bound to certain things, i.e. being very rule bound, and doing the "right thing" with regard to activities that kept her out of harms way as a child (keeping the house spotless to the point of ignoring time with me). I mention this not to draw sympathy but to illustrate the pull she has from the past.

 

I am struggling right now wanting more from my marriage than what I think she is really able to give. I want her to be more expressive and assertive in our sexual life and engaging me emotionally...I also would like her to appreciate my efforts to enhance her life, i.e. I am the sole breadwinner, I cook (because i enjoy it), grocery shop and look for things that give her pleasure.

 

Currently, we are struggling with her sleep schedule in that she will stay up until 2-3 AM and sleep until 10 or 10:30, unless she has a personal obligation that requires her to get up earlier. I am kind of feeling like I'm only here to support and finance her life.....maybe i just need a kick in the butt and be told that since there is no major drama or cheating I should be happy but I am looking to this great group for some feedback...

[d0nnivain]

What does your marriage counselor say?

 

 

I can so see your point but as a depressed person, I always wonder if my husband sees me as more of a drain then a partner. I don't want to lose him but I can't always do the things I need to do to make him happy. I want to do them but sometimes it's just overwhelming.

 

 

Can you ask your wife to try simple adventures? Perhaps when you see her obsessively cleaning, help her so the job gets done faster & she has time for you. Have you considered hiring a housekeeper to lighten her load & give her more time?

[kgcolonel]

What does your marriage counselor say?

 

 

I can so see your point but as a depressed person, I always wonder if my husband sees me as more of a drain then a partner.

When we met, she had always been employed and during the honeymoon phase we were always upbeat and outgoing, however about 2 years into our marriage she became abusive (verbally) and as a result I withdrew. Today, she is not able to hold a job, schedule the normal daily tasks beyond one or two items. So yes to a certain extent, I do feel as though she is too dependent upon me for survival, not so much as a drain but maybe that is actually a good description in that if she were able to contribute a little more to the R, I would be better with the other symptoms that come with depression and relationships.

 

I don't want to lose him but I can't always do the things I need to do to make him happy. I want to do them but sometimes it's just overwhelming.

That's pretty much what she tells me as well....we do things that we both enjoy but the preparation i.e. packing for a vacation, discussing ideas for a trip etc seem to really stress her beyond the enjoyment she gets from the actual trips or events.

 

Can you ask your wife to try simple adventures?

We do take part in these I guess the void is she is compliant but not really participative of my needs and of my efforts to have some couple time with her. I understand that much of this is driven by her childhood scars however I feel that this overshadows my needs entirely.

 

Perhaps when you see her obsessively cleaning, help her so the job gets done faster & she has time for you.

There have been two issues here, one, she'd rather clean on Saturdays and Sundays which are my only days off that we can go have fun....she seems paralyzed Mon - Fri with other things. Secondly when I pitch in, the list grows and begins to feel as though it is infinite instead of let's take care of these rooms and then we go play, she simply adds additional tasks to the list to be done.

 

Have you considered hiring a housekeeper to lighten her load & give her more time?

 

Yes, we had a housekeeper for probably 25 years but for the last 9 years I have only hired one when she is hosting a Bunco party and I wanted to take the extra step to help her. When i have offered of late, she tells me that they don't clean as well and use the wrong cleaners. This is why i am at a loss.

 

I really appreciate your insights and willingness to share how you as a depressed person feels so maybe i can have a better insight to what approaches i can take to enhance our R.

 

thanks

[kgcolonel]

D0....sorry I forgot to respond to the counselor's thoughts.

 

She worked with us and with my wife using a technique EMDR eye movement and colors that somehow reprogram the brain. She has told me privately that to some extent my wife's depression and obsessiveness is related tot he abuse and a "bad voice" in her head that she was work to eliminate. We went to the therapist for over 2 years but that stopped when she was admitted to the inpatient treatment. We are not looking to that currently but aren't closed to that either.

 

She is really avoidant to expressing her feelings which makes it even harder to understand where things stand. Don't get me wrong, I know she loves me but at this stage, not sure how much is love and how much is dependence....

[d0nnivain]

I don't know much about EMDR. I have heard of the technique but that's about it.

 

 

I had another idea about the cleaning. Can you get your wife to make a list of the household chores both daily, weekly & deep cleaning. Then when you go to help & she increases the list, show her what she wrote. As a "rule" she might be better able to stop when you are done instead of making it endless.

 

 

While she's doing that get her to list what cleaners she prefers. Make the housekeepers use those.

 

 

Can you help her make a schedule of what cleaning tasks she can do each day? Start with one. That way she should also have more time for fun when you have off on the weekends & it might give her some structure & a sense of accomplishment. Hey I cleaned the bathroom today. Look the laundry is done.

 

 

They are little things but I was always better in the throws of my depression if somebody else created structure for me.

[kgcolonel]

I don't know much about EMDR. I have heard of the technique but that's about it.

 

 

I had another idea about the cleaning. Can you get your wife to make a list of the household chores both daily, weekly & deep cleaning. Then when you go to help & she increases the list, show her what she wrote. As a "rule" she might be better able to stop when you are done instead of making it endless.

 

 

While she's doing that get her to list what cleaners she prefers. Make the housekeepers use those.

 

 

Can you help her make a schedule of what cleaning tasks she can do each day? Start with one. That way she should also have more time for fun when you have off on the weekends & it might give her some structure & a sense of accomplishment. Hey I cleaned the bathroom today. Look the laundry is done.

 

 

They are little things but I was always better in the throws of my depression if somebody else created structure for me.

 

These are great ideas and I will immediately try this...I agree that a little structure helps keep things in perspective. Thank you very much for your ideas.

[Ronni_W]

I am struggling right now wanting more from my marriage than what I think she is really able to give. I want her to be more expressive and assertive in our sexual life and engaging me emotionally...I also would like her to appreciate my efforts to enhance her life, i.e. I am the sole breadwinner, I cook (because i enjoy it), grocery shop and look for things that give her pleasure. <snip> I am kind of feeling like I'm only here to support and finance her life.....

Hugs, kgcolonel.

 

You ought to be commended on many, many levels. Your experience and the way you express it are both very touching and very telling of your nature and character.

 

There is, clearly, a seeming great imbalance between the 'giving' and the 'taking' aspects inherent in your relationship; yet, without an apparent 'logical cause' or reason.

This reminded me very much of a relationship that is described in the (public domain) book, 'A Dweller on Two Planets'. Unfortunately, I do not have much else to offer

 

In Love and Light.

Ronni

[ufo8mycat]

I had another idea about the cleaning. Can you get your wife to make a list of the household chores both daily, weekly & deep cleaning. Then when you go to help & she increases the list, show her what she wrote. As a "rule" she might be better able to stop when you are done instead of making it endless.

 

 

While she's doing that get her to list what cleaners she prefers. Make the housekeepers use those.

 

 

Can you help her make a schedule of what cleaning tasks she can do each day? Start with one. That way she should also have more time for fun when you have off on the weekends & it might give her some structure & a sense of accomplishment. Hey I cleaned the bathroom today. Look the laundry is done.

 

 

They are little things but I was always better in the throws of my depression if somebody else created structure for me.

 

I actually wonder if the cleaning behaviours are OCD type behaviours rather than depression or related to actual cleaning. OCD is strongly correlated with PTSD (acute and chronic) so she may transfer the obsessive behaviour to something else.

 

People who have experienced trauma they can't process (which is the role of EMDR) often maintain anxiety behaviours and feelings of hyper vigilance. This can some across as an inability to settle or focus (amongst many other things) and the cleaning (or food, drinking, drugs, whatever behaviour and there are many people use) may be a sort of self soothing or self medicating behaviour.

 

Given the time since the trauma she may not a good handle on how she feels, what her triggers and responses are. The intrusive thought ("Bad voice") can be very difficult to manage because they are just so intrusive, so the tendency is to distract yourself.

 

Exposure to trauma makes you avoidant as it isn't always a matter of talking about how you feel. Sometimes, even when years have intervened people will avoid anything to do with exposure to their trauma. Whether it is talking about it, being in situations that trigger similar feelings or reactions or sometimes just wanting to forget all about it (not wanting to live inside yourself).

 

Has she been assessment for PTSD? There are some medications that are better for anxiety disorders than depression.

[Dolfin80]

I had depression/anxiety. My doctor prescrbed escitalopram and ive been depressive n anxiety free now for 4 years ever since i took my 1st pill. It saved my life.

[kgcolonel]

Ufo..those were my thoughts as well, re" OCD however she did also go through the protocol for OCD and the therapist wasn't totally sure but was more of the mind that this was more related to her childhood....I'll read up on the PTSD perspective, that's very much appreciated.

 

Dolphin, that is wonderful....our son has a degree in Psychology....way smarter than mom and dad....he has always talked about different meds. She is current on lithium and emcide or something like that....I truly am very happy for you!!

[ufo8mycat]

Does she have bipolar disorder? Hence the lithium?

 

Anxiety and depression often go hand in hand but no exclusively and trauma can manifest in many self destructive behaviours. Some drugs work better in anxiety than depression and vice verse.

 

Given that your wife has a complex mental health history it is odd for a therapist to administer one inventory just for "OCD". There are usually a whole lot of tests and surveys that are used to come up with some understanding and explanation of the conditions present.

 

I see a psychiatrist that specialises in pharmacology for PTSD and the change in medication literally changed my life in weeks.

 

I can really relate though to not wanting to talk about "it". Even if its not the incident or trauma itself but how I feel, I don't even mention appointments to people because I don't want to talk about it. People who have experienced trauma that they find difficult to process ARE avoidant because its really, really unpleasant.

 

Read up, but perhaps your wife needs more comprehensive support.

[Jump Through Loops]

Currently, we are struggling with her sleep schedule in that she will stay up until 2-3 AM and sleep until 10 or 10:30, unless she has a personal obligation that requires her to get up earlier.

 

Let's say you decided to stay up till 2-3 AM with her and then went to bed.

I'm wondering if she would then stay up much later. Say to 4-5 AM?

 

There have been two issues here, one, she'd rather clean on Saturdays and Sundays which are my only days off that we can go have fun....she seems paralyzed Mon - Fri with other things. Secondly when I pitch in, the list grows and begins to feel as though it is infinite instead of let's take care of these rooms and then we go play, she simply adds additional tasks to the list to be done.

 

If your two days off per week changed to Mon/Tues. Do you think her cleaning rota would also change to Mon/Tues?

[kgcolonel]

Does she have bipolar disorder? Hence the lithium?

 

Anxiety and depression often go hand in hand but no exclusively and trauma can manifest in many self destructive behaviours. Some drugs work better in anxiety than depression and vice verse.

 

Given that your wife has a complex mental health history it is odd for a therapist to administer one inventory just for "OCD". There are usually a whole lot of tests and surveys that are used to come up with some understanding and explanation of the conditions present.

 

I see a psychiatrist that specialises in pharmacology for PTSD and the change in medication literally changed my life in weeks.

 

I can really relate though to not wanting to talk about "it". Even if its not the incident or trauma itself but how I feel, I don't even mention appointments to people because I don't want to talk about it. People who have experienced trauma that they find difficult to process ARE avoidant because its really, really unpleasant.

 

Read up, but perhaps your wife needs more comprehensive support.

 

She was diagnosed at the hospital stay as chronically depressed and they caught the absence of lithium within her system, so no bi-polar (my mother and younger brother both are bi-polar so I know what to look for there,) with my W, there are no manic episodes or acting out as such just the down cycle.

 

The lack of expressiveness is a huge challenge to me personally. I never really know where she is mentally. She will "attend" activities and "put on the game face" but never says she is looking forward to a particular activity or seem pleased about something i have done for her. I.e. her favorite activity is to see movies, (I can take or leave them but I often ask her if she'd like to go see a movie she says "that will be fine" but I have to chose the movie which I don't mind but would prefer that if i am treating her to the movies that she get exactly what she would prefer.....

[kgcolonel]

Let's say you decided to stay up till 2-3 AM with her and then went to bed.

I'm wondering if she would then stay up much later. Say to 4-5 AM?

 

 

 

If your two days off per week changed to Mon/Tues. Do you think her cleaning rota would also change to Mon/Tues?

 

Jump, thanks for weighing in....

 

Yes she would stay up later as this is her winding down time so I don't begrudge her of this. I am in bed at 10:00 due to my career demands, she remains up and usually plays on her netbook sudoku or solitaire for hours. She describes it as she gets lost in an infinite loop and plays over and over and over again.

 

She is the caretaker of her house bound mother (stroke 15 years ago and advanced scoliosis. Multi drs appts for her mother per month. She sees the weekends as her time and gets more comfort from the cleaning (safe zone) than from going and doing with me or anyone else. This weekend however was a unique situation in which one of her friends invited her to go to a flea market on Friday and then attend her monthly bunco party later Friday, and she had a baby shower on Saturday which she attended both. I was elated that she got out and did something outside of the house. She returned, I asked her to run a few errands with me and she declined, said she didn't feel well. She is suffering from a sinus infection but I was a bit dejected but understood that she was likely spent after attending the other activities.

[NTV]

Is she engaging in any exercise routine? After dinner walking?

[kgcolonel]

Is she engaging in any exercise routine? After dinner walking?

 

No. I have taken up yoga twice a week and have tried to encourage her to walk with me or got to yoga but as of yet she's not taken me up on this. I agree that this would help though.

[BettyDraper]

I actually wonder if the cleaning behaviours are OCD type behaviours rather than depression or related to actual cleaning. OCD is strongly correlated with PTSD (acute and chronic) so she may transfer the obsessive behaviour to something else.

 

People who have experienced trauma they can't process (which is the role of EMDR) often maintain anxiety behaviours and feelings of hyper vigilance. This can some across as an inability to settle or focus (amongst many other things) and the cleaning (or food, drinking, drugs, whatever behaviour and there are many people use) may be a sort of self soothing or self medicating behaviour.

 

Given the time since the trauma she may not a good handle on how she feels, what her triggers and responses are. The intrusive thought ("Bad voice") can be very difficult to manage because they are just so intrusive, so the tendency is to distract yourself.

 

Exposure to trauma makes you avoidant as it isn't always a matter of talking about how you feel. Sometimes, even when years have intervened people will avoid anything to do with exposure to their trauma. Whether it is talking about it, being in situations that trigger similar feelings or reactions or sometimes just wanting to forget all about it (not wanting to live inside yourself).

 

Has she been assessment for PTSD? There are some medications that are better for anxiety disorders than depression.

 

This is a very insightful post. I have Complex PTSD as well as OCD.

I wonder why the OP's wife has not been tested for other disorders as well. Most mental health professionals will complete a thorough assessment for concurrent mental illness.

 

One of the hallmarks of PTSD is avoiding anything that serves as a reminder for triggers. Many sufferers learn to disassociate as a survival tactic and unfortunately this coping mechanism can be carried through life. Kgcolonel, that could be why your wife seems numb and reluctant to express feelings.

[Mr. Lucky]

maybe i just need a kick in the butt and be told that since there is no major drama or cheating I should be happy but I am looking to this great group for some feedback...

 

To my thinking, what's difficult for you is the overlap between two different things.

 

First, your wife's history and resulting illness and affect. Depression runs through my wife's side of the family (but not her) so I've seen first hand how difficult it is to deal with. All I can offer you is empathy and second-hand respect for your considerate approach to her issues.

 

Secondly, there's the different paths spouse's lives take over time, a reality I was discussing with a friend. 30 years ago, my wife was athletic and outdoorsy, together we hiked, played tennis, rode bikes, etc. In gradual increments that were hard to see short-term, she's pivoted to a much more "cocooning" and sedentary lifestyle, complicated (or enabled) by weight gain. Now she likes to scrapbook, do crosswords, binge watch and do some occasional light gardening, a far cry from the girl that walked long segments of the Pacific Trail with me. Challenging because I haven't really changed in my interest and orientation. I'll watch the occasional movie but TV feels like a slow death to me. I've continued working as part of wanting to stay active, she's retired.

 

I still love her madly but life has led us to separate places and almost parallel existences. We overlap on family, sex (fortunately!) and travel but our activities are often separate. And I wonder KG, if a certain part of this process plays a part in your marriage too? Over the course of 34 years, hard to stay in the same book, much less on the same page...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Jersey born raised]

You can't be criticized for cleaning and you have complete control of the outcome as long as "clean" is defined.

 

Social events can never be predetermined and results rarely controlled.

 

What type of therapist does she ? One with a Phd?

[kgcolonel]

To my thinking, what's difficult for you is the overlap between two different things.

 

First, your wife's history and resulting illness and affect. Depression runs through my wife's side of the family (but not her) so I've seen first hand how difficult it is to deal with. All I can offer you is empathy and second-hand respect for your considerate approach to her issues.

 

Secondly, there's the different paths spouse's lives take over time, a reality I was discussing with a friend. 30 years ago, my wife was athletic and outdoorsy, together we hiked, played tennis, rode bikes, etc. In gradual increments that were hard to see short-term, she's pivoted to a much more "cocooning" and sedentary lifestyle, complicated (or enabled) by weight gain. Now she likes to scrapbook, do crosswords, binge watch and do some occasional light gardening, a far cry from the girl that walked long segments of the Pacific Trail with me. Challenging because I haven't really changed in my interest and orientation. I'll watch the occasional movie but TV feels like a slow death to me. I've continued working as part of wanting to stay active, she's retired.

 

I still love her madly but life has led us to separate places and almost parallel existences. We overlap on family, sex (fortunately!) and travel but our activities are often separate. And I wonder KG, if a certain part of this process plays a part in your marriage too? Over the course of 34 years, hard to stay in the same book, much less on the same page...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Mr Lucky

 

You are.very good at understanding where I am. I am fully commit to her and do love her dearly. I am also ready to start our return to "play time" as it were. I'd like to have some passion for life for the efforts I take to shower her with what she will occasionally tell me is important to her. Instead I get a "thanks" or even a critique. It to a certain degree feels as though I am trying to earn her appreciation or better stated for her to cherish our R. I do cherish her and her basic values so I continue to look for different "love languages" that'll ring the bell for her.

[kgcolonel]

You can't be criticized for cleaning and you have complete control of the outcome as long as "clean" is defined.

 

Social events can never be predetermined and results rarely controlled.

 

What type of therapist does she ? One with a Phd?

 

We and she individually we're seeing a specialist dealing with marriage and LGBT type issues. Also she is currently under a psychiatrists care for her meds.

[Mr. Lucky]

I do cherish her and her basic values so I continue to look for different "love languages" that'll ring the bell for her.

 

Hope you're not searching for the unicorn.

 

At this point, I've made a conscious choice to appreciate and enjoy the things we do together (easy to do as I enjoy her company) and find my own satisfaction in outside pursuits. We have great kids and now grandkids so, like you, not much to really complain about.

 

Hope you get her meds straightened out. Having gone through different scripts for my son's ADHD and anxiety, I know there's little enjoyment in living with someone drugged into a numb state...

 

Mr. Lucky

[kgcolonel]

Hope you're not searching for the unicorn.

 

At this point, I've made a conscious choice to appreciate and enjoy the things we do together (easy to do as I enjoy her company) and find my own satisfaction in outside pursuits. We have great kids and now grandkids so, like you, not much to really complain about.

 

Hope you get her meds straightened out. Having gone through different scripts for my son's ADHD and anxiety, I know there's little enjoyment in living with someone drugged into a numb state...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

No Unicorns in my pathway....We are basically good, like an earlier post though, as our married years grow, we also sometimes grow in different directions...me toward the more "let's go do us" direction and her, "I'd like to binge watch this series and stay home". We do get out and do things, and we do have our time on the sofa watching her shows, I am just of the mind that you can't stand still. If you're not moving forward, you're moving backwards in a matter of speaking with regard to your relationship.