Toothpaste Rule

[SaveYourHeart]

Hi y'all, it's been a while since I've posted here, but I think my marriage is at a breaking point and I need a little help. Here's a little background:

- I'm 24, he is 30, we were married at 22 and 28 after a two year relationship.

-prewedding we had issues, I broke his trust and he broke mine.

-I fully recovered and forgave his betrayal, but he never got over mine (no, neither of us cheated)

-the wedding came and went and I discovered that I had a lot of time on my hands, instead of taking care of him, I tried rescuing more animals and people as well.

-I did not budget time wisely and neglected him.

- he has a history of gas lighting me, as well as being plain mean.

-he has a drinking problem.

-we have both gained weight

-I have tried to convince him to do marriage counseling, he refuses.

 

Now, onto the argument at hand. On Friday, I was at a rehearsal for my best friend's wedding which I have spent the last few months planning and organizing. I took her up to my sister's house on Wednesday to do a boudoir shoot. Everything was fine and dandy, or so I thought. I admit, I have not spent the time I should have spent with him, but I feel his actions are severe for my crime.

 

During the rehearsal, I received a series of hateful texts from him about the sexuality of the groom (he's bi) and how I should "spill the beans" to his parents (good Christian folk) and how "fun it would be". I asked him why he was being so mean about my friends (who he's taken less than 2 seconds to get to know, when they come visit, he goes to the back room and avoids us). He responded with some silliness about facts and evidence and his family deserved to know that he likes taking it up the butt. My husband is extremely antisocial and refused to come to the wedding, so my mom was flying in from out of state to be with me. He jumped from texting me about my bisexual friend to hatefully saying that me and my mom could go stay at my sister's house (3 hours away) since we liked it so much (I mentioned on Thursday that I liked her house, was happy for her and a touch jealous that she had 2 horses and 8 goats. I said it mostly jokingly). He said we couldn't stay at HIS house and that I've been running my sister's success in his face (I literally mentioned the house once). I had since figured out he was drunk and tried to de-escalate the situation by telling him that if anyone was successful it was him and that I've always been proud of the man he is. He responded that I was bsing him and that me and my mom could go F off. When I left the rehearsal, I sped home to try to talk to him but he kept screaming at me to f*** off and f*** you and he said he would be happier without me. Since then, we've spoken once, where I expressed that I would try harder to be more of an adult (I have a big girl job and virtually no friends because I spend ALL of my time with him) and that I would work on doing more cleaning and cooking. He said he's heard all that before and that he didn't regret a single thing he said the night before. I asked him if he wanted to remain married to me, and he said "you're still here, aren't you?"

 

At first, I thought that I would just die without him, but the longer I thought, the more I believe that what's been said has changed our relationship forever. I've been unhappy and walking on eggshells for so long, I think we both might be happier alone. I'm trying to get a little input on how to talk to him about this and what you would do if you were in my position. Thanks in advance!

[CarrieT]

He sounds like a major douchebag and it looks like you married way too young to a boy child.

 

I would move back to you Mom's, if you can, and start divorce proceedings immediately. You can do much better than to spend your life than in what looks like a living hell.

[Lois_Griffin]

I had since figured out he was drunk and tried to de-escalate the situation by telling him that if anyone was successful it was him and that I've always been proud of the man he is. He responded that I was bsing him and that me and my mom could go F off.

Ugh. What is your need to continually kiss this guy's feet? He sounds like a disgusting, abusive, emotionally stunted, socially stunted troglodyte who was raised by feral wolves.

When I left the rehearsal, I sped home to try to talk to him but he kept screaming at me to f*** off and f*** you and he said he would be happier without me.

And again, this incessant need to kiss this guy's ass and ingratiate yourself to him just screams 'co-dependent.'

Since then, we've spoken once, where I expressed that I would try harder to be more of an adult (I have a big girl job and virtually no friends because I spend ALL of my time with him) and that I would work on doing more cleaning and cooking.

So let's see. You BOTH work, yet YOU'RE the one who has to 'grow up' and do all the cooking and cleaning. What was the abusive drunk doing while you were busy helping your friends get married? I highly doubt HE was 'growing up' and doing 'more cooking and cleaning' while he had all that time at home to continually abuse you verbally while you were with your friends.

 

Why ANYONE would put up with such a worthless little coward is beyond me.

He said he's heard all that before and that he didn't regret a single thing he said the night before. I asked him if he wanted to remain married to me, and he said "you're still here, aren't you?"

You thought you'd DIE without this jerkoff?

 

You'd THRIVE without this fool in your life.

 

Seriously, do you have nothing better to do with your entire life than beg some jerk to love you while he continually abuses you?

 

What's the PAYOFF in that? There's got to be a payoff for you in begging him for scraps of affection. I just can't figure out what it could possibly be.

I've been unhappy and walking on eggshells for so long, I think we both might be happier alone. I'm trying to get a little input on how to talk to him about this and what you would do if you were in my position. Thanks in advance!

Honestly, who gives a rat's ass what he'd be happier doing. Miserable, nasty jerks like him are NEVER happy, no matter what they have or who they have it WITH. Because he's a nasty SOB whose incapable of acting with any decency or kindness. This fool will just go on to abuse someone ELSE who'll probably like you, continually beg for scraps of affection from him while he's doling out the abuse.

 

The smartest thing you could EVER do for yourself is divorce this fool. Immediately.

[losangelena]

Oof. I think it's interesting that you seem to blame yourself for not taking enough care of him. Not to Internet diagnose you, but it sounds like their could be some codependency issues here. I only say that because this sounds remarkably like a relationship I was in once, where the more nurturing I became, the more I tried to "take care" of him, the more I tried to talk about things, the crueler and ornerier he got. It was a caustic, vicious cycle.

 

I don't know. I do think you need marriage counseling. If he won't go, go get individual counseling. Also, can you get some space from him for a while? He sounds toxic. Not to sound judgy at all, but when did he start behaving like this? Before y'all got married or after?

[Tiger Lily]

Sorry for your pain, OP. I would advise you to seek individual counseling first, especially before making any major decisions like divorce. If you feel threatened, don't hesitate to separate for a time at least though.

 

I think individual counseling can help you develop better communication skills, and help you figure out how to reach your goals. If you goal is a happy marriage, you can work on steps you can take to contribute to that. And if your goal is divorce, how you can do that with less emotional strife.

 

A warning about divorce though: if you think you can leave this guy and find someone else without any baggage, I think you'll be at a great risk of repeating the exact same dynamics with the next guy.

 

But, OP...what is the toothpaste rule?

[BettyDraper]

Sorry for your pain, OP. I would advise you to seek individual counseling first, especially before making any major decisions like divorce. If you feel threatened, don't hesitate to separate for a time at least though.

 

I think individual counseling can help you develop better communication skills, and help you figure out how to reach your goals. If you goal is a happy marriage, you can work on steps you can take to contribute to that. And if your goal is divorce, how you can do that with less emotional strife.

 

A warning about divorce though: if you think you can leave this guy and find someone else without any baggage, I think you'll be at a great risk of repeating the exact same dynamics with the next guy.

 

But, OP...what is the toothpaste rule?

 

Why should she work on trying to have a happy marriage with such an awful husband?

 

He is a cruel emotional abuser. There is no reason to worsen her codependency by continually trying to appease her husband.

 

We all have baggage but what matters is what we do with it. The OP doesn't need to be concerned about finding a new partner after marriage.

 

Her first priority should be protecting herself from her terrible husband.

[Mrs. John Adams]

First you don't spend enough time with him... Then you say you spend too much time with him.... So i am a little confused... But i don't think it really matters one way or the other.

 

This relationship is volital at best. You are young... You will recover nicely without him.

 

Get out while you have no kids.

 

My guess is you should never have married in the first place... But sometimes we learn from our mistakes and move on to do much better because of them.

 

Get yourself together... Concentrate on being the best you that you can be.

 

Good luck to you

[Tiger Lily]

Why should she work on trying to have a happy marriage with such an awful husband?

 

He is a cruel emotional abuser. There is no reason to worsen her codependency by continually trying to appease her husband.

 

We all have baggage but what matters is what we do with it. The OP doesn't need to be concerned about finding a new partner after marriage.

 

Her first priority should be protecting herself from her terrible husband.

 

Again, my advice to the OP is to get individual counseling before making any major decisions.

 

Betty, I feel it's shortsighted of you to think that if the OP (a 24 y/o female) divorces, that she won't get in to another relationship in the future. Statistically, she will. And divorce will have a major affect on any future relationships she has, as will any dysfunctional relationship patterns she carries with her now. I definitely think that those factors should help her decide what she will do now.

 

I'm always very wary of jumping to the defense of one person posting, as their partner does not have a voice, and we're not getting both sides of the story.

 

OP ~ there are dysfunctional patterns in your relationship. And you don't have to endure this mistreatment. But immediately running from problems won't solve them long-term, in my opinion.

 

But you should take whatever advice most speaks to your heart.

[Mrs. John Adams]

She has very real doubts and a great deal of animosity toward her husband.... We don't need his side of the story,

 

If she wants to end the realtionship... Even if he doesn't..he cannot mend the marriage or heal the relationship by himself.

 

She is young.. He is young and has a drinking problem.

 

If a man yelled at me the way she has described.. I would walk and never look back.

 

The relationship was in trouble before they ever married... It has continued to disinagrate ...

 

I agree she should go to therapy to work on her... But it won't help him.

[anika99]

Again, my advice to the OP is to get individual counseling before making any major decisions.

 

Betty, I feel it's shortsighted of you to think that if the OP (a 24 y/o female) divorces, that she won't get in to another relationship in the future. Statistically, she will. And divorce will have a major affect on any future relationships she has, as will any dysfunctional relationship patterns she carries with her now. I definitely think that those factors should help her decide what she will do now.

 

I'm always very wary of jumping to the defense of one person posting, as their partner does not have a voice, and we're not getting both sides of the story.

 

OP ~ there are dysfunctional patterns in your relationship. And you don't have to endure this mistreatment. But immediately running from problems won't solve them long-term, in my opinion.

 

But you should take whatever advice most speaks to your heart.

 

I agree that the OP should probably get counselling to work on her own issues before she ever gets involved in a new relationship, however her husband sounds like the type of man who never accepts responsibility for anything, ever, and surely the OP can do better. The older people become the more baggage they accumulate. The OP is still very young and so the sooner she gets out this marriage the better. At her age there are still plenty of single decent men without excessive baggage for her to choose from. Not so much when she's in her thirties, saddled with children and god knows what other problems and most of the good guys are already married.

 

It doesn't matter to me that her husband is not here to give his side. If she is accurately describing his words and behaviour then that is enough to know that this marriage is doomed to misery. She was trying to talk to him and he kept screaming at her to f@@k off and f@@k you. Does that sound like a guy who is willing to work on himself or the marriage?

 

I have been with the guy who has verbally ripped me to shreds everytime he got unhappy and he would always have a long list of reasons for acting that way. It was always because I made him so mad or he was under some sort of pressure or he was being misunderstood, blah blah blah. I finally realized that I had all of the same pressures and problems and feelings that he had and yet I would never in a million years think it was okay to be abusive towards him as he was towards me. Regardless of what problems the OP is contributing to the marriage the way her spouse reacts and communicates indicates very little hope for this marriage. You really can't work on a relationship with someone so childish and emotionally stunted. You can't even have a rational discussion with a person like that. The only way this marriage could work is if her husband were also willing to spend a couple of years in therapy getting help but that's never going to happen because he doesn't think there is anything wrong with him.

[SaveYourHeart]

Thank you all for your input, I do want to leave, but I don't want to make any hasty decisions simply because I promised my life to the man I love(d). I will clarify a few questions stated throughout.

 

-He had some negative tendencies prior to the marriage, but they have increased exponentially, and I find myself (especially through the gaslighting) floundering between what I believe is reality and what he tells me is reality. It can be extremely disorienting.

 

- I tried to state my faults in the relationship as well, because I know it takes two to tango and I know that the demise of our marriage does not lay entirely on his shoulders.

 

- I am certainly interested in getting counseling for myself, I personally carry a lot of guilt and sadness between the broken relationships of my friends and the failing of my marriage. I am the shell of the woman I once was.

 

- I am interested in trying to have a trial separation, to see if we are really happier by ourselves and if not, how we can mend the broken parts of our marriage to make things work again.

 

-The toothpaste rule is something I saw in my 2nd grade class, one of those motivational posters. It means that whenever you squeeze the toothpaste bottle, whatever comes out cannot go back in. It was to promote kindness and thoughtfulness before speaking. In light of recent events, it was a saying that came to me and has really encouraged me to not allow myself to be treated poorly, because I would never be hateful or meant towards someone else.

 

-I mentioned that my mom is in town, but I failed to mention that she was driving to stay with us in our home Friday night and we were forced to get a hotel room. Her being here meant that I could not sweep this situation under the rug and hide it. I've been forced to really analyze myself and my relationship.

 

- I do not intend to get into another relationship until I am happy with my own state of mind. I find life extremely fulfilling even when experienced alone. But I will never be alone because I am an animal rescuer and my foster children will always keep my heart full.

[anika99]

You sound pretty level headed and mature to me. A trial separation is a good idea because once you're caught up in a toxic relationship it just becomes an endless loop that becomes unbreakable until someone steps away. Take some time apart so that you can both think rationally about what you both really want.

[BettyDraper]

Again, my advice to the OP is to get individual counseling before making any major decisions.

 

Betty, I feel it's shortsighted of you to think that if the OP (a 24 y/o female) divorces, that she won't get in to another relationship in the future. Statistically, she will. And divorce will have a major affect on any future relationships she has, as will any dysfunctional relationship patterns she carries with her now. I definitely think that those factors should help her decide what she will do now.

 

I'm always very wary of jumping to the defense of one person posting, as their partner does not have a voice, and we're not getting both sides of the story.

 

OP ~ there are dysfunctional patterns in your relationship. And you don't have to endure this mistreatment. But immediately running from problems won't solve them long-term, in my opinion.

 

But you should take whatever advice most speaks to your heart.

 

My words were: "The OP doesn't need to be concerned with finding a new partner after marriage." By that I meant that finding a new man is the least of her worries. She needs to focus on getting away from such an awful person. Nobody was assuming that she will not get into another relationship. My point was that thinking of her next partner at this point doesn't make any sense. Divorce will affect her subsequent relationships but it's a far better option than staying with someone who does not value her.

 

I don't care about the voice of a partner who is obviously abusive. My first priority is helping the person who is being victimized.There is no need for her to seek individual counseling in order to learn how to be a better wife to her husband. She should seek counseling for her own healing. Why should she work on herself to benefit someone who is not interested in taking responsibility for his actions?

 

OP, I completely understand why you want to stay with your husband and it's admirable that you take your vows seriously. However, marriage is not about tolerating unacceptable treatment. A trial separation while seeking counseling would be a great course of action. This way you will get some space to be more objective about your marriage and time to work on your self esteem.

[basil67]

I strongly disagree with the idea of a trial separation. I reckon that he will go straight to good behaviour till you're lured back in and then go back to being an arsehole.

 

For what it's worth, the horrible things he said about the groom and to you via text would be enough to cement my decision to walk away. Sure, he can apologise - but no amount of apologies can undo the fact that this is how he thinks and feels.

 

FWIW, I was married at 20 and left when I was 24. My ex wasn't nearly as horrid as your husband, but I never, ever have regretted leaving. Life is so much better now.

[SaveYourHeart]

Just an update- yesterday I sat down and discussed our options, a) seek counseling and work it out b) trial separation c) divorce. He said he was somewhere between a and b, I told him I was leaning towards b because I needed time and space to sort myself out. He agreed and I packed my bags. Once I packed, he got angry and said he didn't know what it would fix, I told him that we both needed time to decide how to proceed. He hasn't contacted me since I left.

[Tiger Lily]

Just an update- yesterday I sat down and discussed our options, a) seek counseling and work it out b) trial separation c) divorce. He said he was somewhere between a and b, I told him I was leaning towards b because I needed time and space to sort myself out. He agreed and I packed my bags. Once I packed, he got angry and said he didn't know what it would fix, I told him that we both needed time to decide how to proceed. He hasn't contacted me since I left.

 

I'm sorry OP. It must be a very painful time for you right now. How are you holding up?

 

If you maintain the separation, or get back together, just remember that you must stay true to yourselves. Ultimately, none of us on the internet know you, and even your own family/friends don't have a stake in your relationship. You must do what's right for you.

 

Saying a prayer for you, OP!

[ChickiePops]

Just an update- yesterday I sat down and discussed our options, a) seek counseling and work it out b) trial separation c) divorce. He said he was somewhere between a and b, I told him I was leaning towards b because I needed time and space to sort myself out. He agreed and I packed my bags. Once I packed, he got angry and said he didn't know what it would fix, I told him that we both needed time to decide how to proceed. He hasn't contacted me since I left.

 

Does he blame you for everything? Has he ever taken any responsibility for anything at all?

[SaveYourHeart]

Thank you for the prayer, Tiger Lily! Yesterday was rough, everything seemed to crash down on me at once. But today, I gathered my finances and budgeted out my life, if I decide to divorce. The end result is that I can manage to put away $500 or more per month after bills and groceries for savings, so that makes me a bit happier because it means I can build a bigger future for myself. After being with him for so long, it's been terrifying to think that I have to be alone, and he's always handled the money (poorly apparently!). I had no idea where to go or what to do, but I have a massive support system of friends and family who have reached out to let me know that they're here for me. My fear is that he doesn't have a support group at all and that he won't be able to survive without my income (I make almost double what he makes). But I have to do what's right for me and I cannot settle for anything less than happiness.

 

ChickiePops, He blames me for 99.9% of our issues, acknowledges that he has issues but fails to understand that his faults and problems are contributing immensely to our failing marriage as well.

[ChickiePops]

Thank you for the prayer, Tiger Lily! Yesterday was rough, everything seemed to crash down on me at once. But today, I gathered my finances and budgeted out my life, if I decide to divorce. The end result is that I can manage to put away $500 or more per month after bills and groceries for savings, so that makes me a bit happier because it means I can build a bigger future for myself. After being with him for so long, it's been terrifying to think that I have to be alone, and he's always handled the money (poorly apparently!). I had no idea where to go or what to do, but I have a massive support system of friends and family who have reached out to let me know that they're here for me. My fear is that he doesn't have a support group at all and that he won't be able to survive without my income (I make almost double what he makes). But I have to do what's right for me and I cannot settle for anything less than happiness.

 

ChickiePops, He blames me for 99.9% of our issues, acknowledges that he has issues but fails to understand that his faults and problems are contributing immensely to our failing marriage as well.

 

Sadly I don't really see this improving...

 

If he becomes your ex, it's not your job to worry about a support system. If he can't survive without your income, perhaps this would motivate him to get a better job.

[BettyDraper]

Thank you for the prayer, Tiger Lily! Yesterday was rough, everything seemed to crash down on me at once. But today, I gathered my finances and budgeted out my life, if I decide to divorce. The end result is that I can manage to put away $500 or more per month after bills and groceries for savings, so that makes me a bit happier because it means I can build a bigger future for myself. After being with him for so long, it's been terrifying to think that I have to be alone, and he's always handled the money (poorly apparently!). I had no idea where to go or what to do, but I have a massive support system of friends and family who have reached out to let me know that they're here for me. My fear is that he doesn't have a support group at all and that he won't be able to survive without my income (I make almost double what he makes). But I have to do what's right for me and I cannot settle for anything less than happiness.

 

ChickiePops, He blames me for 99.9% of our issues, acknowledges that he has issues but fails to understand that his faults and problems are contributing immensely to our failing marriage as well.

 

That's great that you can put away $500 a month! You can build a nest egg for yourself and maybe invest your savings as well. The support system will be very helpful.

 

I agree with ChickiePops. If your husband isn't willing to take responsibility for his actions, your marriage doesn't have a chance of improving and I know that's not what you deserve.

[Cephalopod]

Thank you for the prayer, Tiger Lily! Yesterday was rough, everything seemed to crash down on me at once. But today, I gathered my finances and budgeted out my life, if I decide to divorce. The end result is that I can manage to put away $500 or more per month after bills and groceries for savings, so that makes me a bit happier because it means I can build a bigger future for myself. After being with him for so long, it's been terrifying to think that I have to be alone, and he's always handled the money (poorly apparently!). I had no idea where to go or what to do, but I have a massive support system of friends and family who have reached out to let me know that they're here for me. My fear is that he doesn't have a support group at all and that he won't be able to survive without my income (I make almost double what he makes). But I have to do what's right for me and I cannot settle for anything less than happiness.

 

ChickiePops, He blames me for 99.9% of our issues, acknowledges that he has issues but fails to understand that his faults and problems are contributing immensely to our failing marriage as well.

 

Sounds like neither you or him were ready for marriage when you got hitched. He has a lot of growing up to do, but so do you. Divorce was the best option in this case. Good luck.

[SaveYourHeart]

Another small update - We reconvened Sunday afternoon to discuss where we wanted to go with our marriage. He said he stopped drinking and was willing to go to marriage counseling if that's what I want to do. He said the ball is in my court.

 

I asked him what HE wanted to do, but he just kept saying that he would be happy with whatever decision I made. I guess I'm just a little sad that he didn't act like he needed me back, I had hoped the distance would make us both take a step back and adjust accordingly, but I think it just drove us apart more. We (I) decided that we need to give this marriage another shot. So I'm moving back to his house tomorrow.

[CarrieT]

I'm sorry, OP. I think he is taking the easy way out by putting the onus of the decision for your future on you.

 

We all want a partner who will fight for us and this guy just doesn't seem like he's the fighting kind. He seems like he is resigning himself to a life - and marriage - he really has no passion for.

[SaveYourHeart]

I'm sorry, OP. I think he is taking the easy way out by putting the onus of the decision for your future on you.

 

We all want a partner who will fight for us and this guy just doesn't seem like he's the fighting kind. He seems like he is resigning himself to a life - and marriage - he really has no passion for.

I agree. I think that's the saddest part. I don't want to leave him because I'm comfortable, I don't really know what I'll do, but I'd rather have a life full of passion (good or bad) than a life of mediocrity.

[anika99]

Another small update - We reconvened Sunday afternoon to discuss where we wanted to go with our marriage. He said he stopped drinking and was willing to go to marriage counseling if that's what I want to do. He said the ball is in my court.

 

I asked him what HE wanted to do, but he just kept saying that he would be happy with whatever decision I made. I guess I'm just a little sad that he didn't act like he needed me back, I had hoped the distance would make us both take a step back and adjust accordingly, but I think it just drove us apart more. We (I) decided that we need to give this marriage another shot. So I'm moving back to his house tomorrow.

 

I think you should not have moved back until you two had spent some time in counselling and working on your personal growth. A week apart has changed nothing. Everything is the same as it was when you started this thread. All he had to do was say some stuff you wanted to hear and you caved. Now he might stop drinking for a bit and attend a couple of counselling sessions to make you happy, but things will slowly go back to where they were.