Potentially abusive situation [updated 2016-07-26]

[holyrolypoly]

I'm gonna try to keep this long story as short as I can. Unfortunately, my partner (who is in his mid-20s) doesn't have living parents. I visited some people that he said had helped him out a lot in the aftermath of the death of his last remaining parent, when he was an adult, but young. These are people that he had known in his childhood, but wasn't close to again until his parents died. One is 55 years and he says is "like a mom" and the other is 65, but because of his ill health seems older, and is "like a grandfather." Let's say these people are named Jack and Jill. They are not in a relationship, but are close and live in adjoining houses. Before I met my partner, he'd been living with Jack most of the time for about three years, using his house as a kind of home base between travels. When I met Jill, a number of disturbing things happened around her.

 

-she put her finger in my partner's mouth to lick off batter while we were baking together

-she wanted me to use the restroom while she was bathing with the door and shower curtain open

-she told me (and it was true) that my partner was used to being naked when he walked around her house and that they were "always nude" when I wasn't there and he changed only when I came

-she showed me and my partner a nude picture of a young woman who was "like her daughter" which made me feel uncomfortable because she didn't tell me that the woman would be nude in the photo or that she had permission to show other people, and this woman was a neighbor and I might have met her in that trip, but didn't

-she would sit in the same chair as my partner and be really handsy, rubbing, etc

 

When I told him how uncomfortable it made me, he got really upset and said I was unhealthy and nudity is normal. He said she is too old for him and too fat (and I believe him), but when I questioned, he said his previous gf had asked him if something was going on, but she accepted it when he said no. Apparently a different neighbor that he dated briefly also thought they had been intimate. So I told him he can't think it's just me, and I laid out strict physical boundaries between them and he agreed. I had to DIG this out of him, but he said that she had made him feel uncomfortable on a few occasions and he thought she might have been coming on to him, but overall she was very maternal. He said he didn't want to say anything because he was afraid she would stop loving him.

 

Fast-forward to our confrontation. After he drew boundaries with Jill, she said she felt hurt and wanted to talk about it. Jack totally backed her up. I told her my concerns and that she told me about the nudity thing to stir up trouble and if it didn't mean anything, she shouldn't have said anything. First she got mad, saying she's a doctor and heals people with her hands (she's a massage therapist) and that she wouldn't change for anyone, and people have always been saying she's too intense and too sexual and it's the CULTURE that's messed up, not her. She even said that she felt that HE'D been coming onto HER a few times, and that she didn't say anything because she didn't want him to feel rejected and it's normal for kids to feel that way about their parents at some point. She eventually started crying and brought up that she was an orphan, she'd been raped, she'd had a miscarriage, she was infertile, etc etc. I have sympathy for people in general, but I know crocodile tears and a sob story guilt trip when I see one. My partner doesn't. He went to comfort her and came back a little upset because she had paddled his butt as he was leaving.

 

Before we left (we were already planning to move away), she left messages and notes saying it was natural for a person to choose their mate over their parents and leave the nest, all this baloney. I don't think anything sexual happened between them, but I think she took advantage of him in a delicate situation. He was young and parentless and away from family and needed love. I feel like something COULD and WOULD have happened he'd stayed with her longer. He was mostly living with Jack, though. I really feel like he was being eased into sexual contact, as she was normalizing nudity in her home and excessive touching. As a less extreme, she just liked having a hot young man walking naked around her house, which is bad enough. These are all hippie people, and I am not, but surely they know what's normal, and can see the difference between real parents and not real parents. He'd essentially only known her those three years, as he doesn't remember her from his youth. He is much closer with Jack and remembered him.

 

The kicker: they weren't talking because she was upset, and he was feeling guilty about it. I'm pretty sure Jack was passing along her guilt trips because I heard him mentioning Jill when on the phone with my partner. He is prone to being taken advantage of, by lots of different types of people, and to me this is part of a pattern. I've seen it before. NOW, he's facebook friended Jill and she accepted. I'm not sure what to do. He said before that he understood how I felt, and agreed with me, etc, but clearly he does NOT.

 

Should I leave him? I haven't talked to him about it much since I found out because he's been travelling for work, and I don't want to upset him. I mentioned it right before he left and he said "she's helped me out a lot! She's been through a lot! You don't understand because your life's been so easy!" and I let it go. As I think more about it, I'm angry because I feel like he went behind my back. We've even talked about sexual grooming, and talked to our couples counselor about it, but all he said was that it "wasn't a normal parent/child relationship." We only talked about it in one session, but we've stopped seeing the counselor as he isn't effective. It seems like a fundamental difference in the way we view the world and feels unlikely that even if he agreed with me again, he'd make any meaningful long-term change. What should I do??

[holyrolypoly]

I'm pretty sure I want to divorce my husband. There are long-standing issues that he's aware of, and one big issue we've almost split up about twice. I told him a week ago I wanted to divorce over the issue but he begged me back. He's been away for work since and I think I've changed my mind.

 

Do I owe him an explanation? I'm feeling pretty tender and I'm not up for another fight so soon, and I don't want it to devolve into me blaming him, because I'm also kind of bitter about this. Can I say "it won't work and we've already discussed why" or "I changed my mind, I want to split again"? I'm not afraid he'll be violent but he likes to fight and I don't want to. But we're married: do I owe him more?

[mikeylo]

If you are going to file for contested divorce then of course you need to tell why but if it's mutual that you want to file then you do need his consent.

[holyrolypoly]

We don't have kids, so in our state, we can be separated for 6 months and file for a no-fault divorce. I just meant, morally, what's my obligation to disclose? Even if I were to tell him what's wrong, he wouldn't change, and I wouldn't even want to stick around to see if he would, since it's been so hard in the past. I don't want it to be a big THING, but I'm not just gonna ghost.

[PegNosePete]

You have no moral obligations.

 

There is a box on the divorce form asking why you want a divorce. If he wants to know why, he can read that.

 

Although if the no-fault divorce requires his consent and co-operation then it adds another factor, he may choose to withhold his consent/co-operation for any reason, logical or illogical. If that's the case then it makes sense to ensure he will go along with it, before filing.

[holyrolypoly]

I'm not sure why no responses yet, but could be due to length of post. Basic issue is: I want to keep my partner away from someone for his mental health, and while he agreed, he's gone behind my back to reach out to this person. He knows this is a big deal to me, and that it's essential to the health of our relationship. I feel stuck, like I have to "save" him, but he's an adult. He knows how I feel, so should I just let him make his own mistakes? I'm dangerously close to giving up on him entirely, as this shows a serious lack of judgment and respect for me.

[Mr. Lucky]

I'm pretty sure I want to divorce my husband. There are long-standing issues that he's aware of, and one big issue we've almost split up about twice.

 

If what you're really asking is "Do we have to rehash the same issues all over again?", the answer is "no". Been there, done that...

 

Mr. Lucky

[TennisGal]

When I told my husband I needed for us to divorce, we did not rehash all the issues.

 

What I said to my husband was something like this: You know I've been very unhappy; and I know you've been unhappy, too. We've discussed the issues, we went to nearly 2 years of counseling, and we haven't resolved these things. I can't ask you to be other than who you are, and I can't be other than who I am. And the only way out of this unhappiness is to end our marriage.

 

He doesn't want the divorce, but isn't going to contest it. Neither of us has retained an attorney or filed. I'm 95% sure we will do mediation.

[Satu]

When I told my husband I needed for us to divorce, we did not rehash all the issues.

 

What I said to my husband was something like this: You know I've been very unhappy; and I know you've been unhappy, too. We've discussed the issues, we went to nearly 2 years of counseling, and we haven't resolved these things. I can't ask you to be other than who you are, and I can't be other than who I am. And the only way out of this unhappiness is to end our marriage.

 

He doesn't want the divorce, but isn't going to contest it. Neither of us has retained an attorney or filed. I'm 95% sure we will do mediation.

 

You've already given him a reasonable explanation.

[katiegrl]

. As I think more about it, I'm angry because I feel like he went behind my back. We've even talked about sexual grooming, and talked to our couples counselor about it, but all he said was that it "wasn't a normal parent/child relationship." We only talked about it in one session, but we've stopped seeing the counselor as he isn't effective.

 

It seems like a fundamental difference in the way we view the world and feels unlikely that even if he agreed with me again, he'd make any meaningful long-term change. What should I do??

 

holyroly, yeah it was a long post but I read the entire thing and the bolded above are what stood out for me.... over and above everything else, even the, IMO, inappropriateness of your bf's RL with Jill.

 

You had an agreement and he went behind your back and did it anyway. That is huge, and personally I would have a very difficult time trusting after that, which essentially amounts to, for me, a dealbreaker.

 

Also you admit there is a fundamental difference between the way each of you views the world.

 

This is also huge for me....

 

Compromise is important, but heck if he is just gonna go along with whatever you mutually agree upon, but then go behind your back and do what he wants anyway ... then what's the point of even discussing it in the first place?

 

There are so many red flags with this entire situation.... if it were me I would cut my losses, wish him well and move on.

 

You are young there will be plenty more guys who won't cause you this much confusion and anxiety, DON'T need fixing, DON'T need saving (which you can't do anyway no matter how hard you try) and whom you can TRUST.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide though.

Edited June 9, 2016 by katiegrl

[SammySammy]

I'm not sure why no responses yet, but could be due to length of post. Basic issue is: I want to keep my partner away from someone for his mental health, and while he agreed, he's gone behind my back to reach out to this person. He knows this is a big deal to me, and that it's essential to the health of our relationship. I feel stuck, like I have to "save" him, but he's an adult. He knows how I feel, so should I just let him make his own mistakes? I'm dangerously close to giving up on him entirely, as this shows a serious lack of judgment and respect for me.

 

He's an adult.

 

No matter how any of us feel about this situation, those two can and will do what they please. Whether we approve or not.

 

Trying to "save" him for his mental well being sounds nice, but you can only control what you do. You set yourself up for failure by trying set boundaries for him and feeling disappointed when he crossed them.

 

There should be boundaries in any relationship, but the most effective boundaries are those we set and reinforce for ourselves. Things we won't do out of respect for our partners. Things our partners won't do out of respect for us. Those are healthy boundaries. Not things we told our partners not to do.

 

With that said, what you control at this point is deciding whether you are willing to stay in this relationship or not. Do what you feel is best.

 

Just remember that you can't save people that don't want to be saved.

[mrldii]

...Should I leave him?...

 

 

Yup. For your mental health, not his. He's not going to change...and all 3 of them have let you know that what's going on is "perfectly normal".

 

People don't change when they're "perfectly normal", especially for / because of people (like you) who don't understand what "perfectly normal" is...and especially when they've told you, "it's the rest of the world that's screwed up..."

 

 

Best of luck to you, OP...

[Angelica21]

holyrolypoly,

 

Hire a family law attorney and file for the divorce.

 

You are not legally, morally or ethically required to explain anything more to your husband, you've already explained it to him before.

 

Take action. A better life and a better relationship with somebody different are waiting in the future for you.

[oldshirt]

I think if a married person is seriously considering terminating the marriage, they should be ethically obligated to express their needs and their dissatisfactions and give their spouse at least the opportunity to determine if they want to try to correct the issues or not.

 

 

Then if the other spouse declines to address it or if they are unwilling or unable to address it, then the dissatisfied party can carry on with what they think is in their best interests.

 

 

I think that you should let your H know that you are serious and that action is going to be taken and that he should be made aware of the seriousness of the situation and what is at stake.

 

 

But at the end of the day if he knows what the issues are and knows what is at stake and knows the seriousness of the situation, then I think you have done your due diligence.

 

 

If you have done your due diligence in trying to remedy the situation and have reached an impasse that simply cannot or will not be worked out, then each of you may be sad it didn't work out, but each of you will at least be able to sleep at night that you did your best.

[Angelica21]

oldshirt:

 

I totally agree with everything you said.

 

But holyrolypoly already indicated that she told him she wanted a divorce, and that she wants the divorce because of an issue discussed multiple times.

 

By the way, the divorce process itself will involve lots and lots of discussions between and among holyrolypoly, her husband, her attorney, and his attorney. So there is still plenty of time to re-state previously stated points, explain and re-explain decisions, etc.

 

Divorce negotiations are emotionally charged and difficult, but not necessarily hostile nor acrimonius.

 

Move forward with the divorce, holyrolypoly, and simply apprise your husband factually about each step "I interviewed an attorney today", "I hired an attorney today", "My attorney prepared the paperwork", "My attorney will be filing the paperwork at the courthouse today", etc.

[holyrolypoly]

We had a long conversation about trust (we've had issues with him going behind my back and lying/hiding things) and at the end he, unbidden, "confessed" that he has a crush on a girl at work. A couple of years ago, he told me something like that, but I responded "you don't need to tell me things like that, I don't want to know." But he decided to tell me this ANYWAY, because he didn't want to be hiding anything. I wish he could understand the difference between things he needs to tell me (things that affect our relationship) and things he doesn't, but he doesn't get it.

 

I visited his work (he started two weeks ago) because he really wanted me to, and especially wanted me to meet his boss, whom he's known for 10 or so years. Everyone was really nice and welcoming, except the one who ended up being his crush. I don't get what he sees in her! She's 18 or 19, but looks about 13, and looks really mean. She also is pretty much my opposite in every way. I'm 10 years older, 5'8" and 125 lbs, she's about 5'1" and 100 lbs, she has straight hair, I have curly. I'm curvy, she's pre-adolescent looking. She's outdoorsy (like him) and I'm bookish. The only similarities are she has dark skin (olive but mine is darker) dark eyes, and dark hair. He has described me as athletic, and her as well, but I think she's a shrimp. He said it's all physical, and that he doesn't want to be with her, because he's married to me. He says it's hard not to look at her, but he said he avoids her, which seems to me like he doesn't think he has the self-control not to start something with her. I'll admit that she does draw the eye, I think because she's so much smaller and darker than everyone else, and she's the only one that seems like she's having a bad time. He said she has a nice smile, and I guess I agree, but I only saw it once.

 

What I want him to say is, "she's pretty, but I wouldn't be with her because she's not [quality] like you," but he really doesn't know anything about her, or "I like the way she looks, but I think you're much more beautiful" OR SOMETHING. I think he would say something like that only if I told him I wanted him to, which isn't genuine. I love him, but I'm really losing patience with him. Now he says he wishes he hadn't told me. I think I would feel better if there was something I could do to look more the way he wants (if I were short, wear heels, or lose weight or gain weight). He's told me things like this before, including that he was attracted to one of my close friends and wished I was [quality] like her, and had an inappropriately close relationship with his ex, whom I wasn't allowed to meet (I had to cut that off). I don't feel like he has cheated or would, but it somehow doesn't feel enough. It feels like the only thing that keeps him from doing it is the fact that's it's wrong, and the only thing he considers cheating is kissing and beyond.

[VeveCakes]

Sounds like he had a pattern for a wandering eye... just have to think about how far it might wonder.

 

Stop obsessing over her. She's her and you are you. Don't compare. What make you thinks she might be willing to entertain him? Just because he crushes on her doesn't mean she crushes on him.

 

I would set some serious boundaries and see what plays out in the future. Maybe introduce yourself to her as there girlfriend so there is no confusion.

[Satu]

He needs his chain yanked, good and hard.

 

Don't be nice about this.

 

Put him firmly in his place.

 

 

Take care.

[holyrolypoly]

She knows he's married. I didn't meet her, but she was there when I met most everyone else. She was really quiet and kept to herself and seemed like a real sourpuss. I don't think she'd go for him, but that's not the point. I want him to be faithful because of his character, not just because he's married. I want him to be faithful because he loves me and prefers me to every other woman. When I see or meet a guy I like, my mind automatically goes "he has great eyes, but he's no Hubby." I don't tell him about finding other guys attractive because I KNOW it would hurt his feelings and make him feel insecure.

 

How do I yank his chain, so to speak?

[Satu]

She knows he's married. I didn't meet her, but she was there when I met most everyone else. She was really quiet and kept to herself and seemed like a real sourpuss. I don't think she'd go for him, but that's not the point. I want him to be faithful because of his character, not just because he's married. I want him to be faithful because he loves me and prefers me to every other woman. When I see or meet a guy I like, my mind automatically goes "he has great eyes, but he's no Hubby." I don't tell him about finding other guys attractive because I KNOW it would hurt his feelings and make him feel insecure.

 

How do I yank his chain, so to speak?

 

The first thing is to tell him his behaviour is ridiculous in a grown man, and that you're not going to tolerate it.

 

Look angry, sound angry, and be angry.

 

If you don't, he'll think it's no big deal.

 

Don't be 'reasonable' about it.

 

Then do what Lysistrata did, if he doesn't behave himself.

 

Start with the above, but be prepared to escalate

 

 

Take care.

[VeveCakes]

Now your threads have been merged, I would say he has a serious issue with boundaries and what constitutes a healthy relationship with others while being married. I can understand why you are considering leaving.

[holyrolypoly]

I love him and I want to be with him, but not the way he is now. He is trying to change, but it's not promising. He's had so many relapses and slip-ups I don't have much (or any) confidence in him. He keeps doing the same stupid things over and over again, whether I'm supportive and patient, or I'm crying and flipping out. I feel like he's sucking my strength and life force out of me, but he's still not getting any better. It's like he's just wasting it.

[Cinnamonstix]

Between the inappropriate relationship with his mother figure, having crushes on other women (your friend and the girl at work), I'm not sure why you're sticking this out. Your husband has poor boundaries and it's husband material. A husband should make you feel safe and cherished and like you're the only one for him.

[Cherryz]

So you are married with him?

 

Even thou this is not okay, i dont see a real urgency for divorce.

You promised : in sickness and in health. In good and bad times.

If its not cheating or abuse in any kind of way you can work it true or at least try.

 

I think you are rigth. This old lady took advantage of him and used his weakness to manipulate him.

Its very disrespectful! Even if he wasnt married!And so sickening!

 

Now he is a adult and older he needs to take responsibility and put a end to this!

I think your man knows and feel the same as you, but he may be afraid to lose that one support he only had.

And he may feel guilty to stand up for himself because she done things for him.

 

What he need to get to realize is that love gos hand in hand with respect!

And he deserve to be respected. And it doesn't matter what the person did for him.

They should respect him and his boundaries if not they not worth it to keep around.

And its okay to say no to people you care about.

 

You need to find a other better therapist.

Do some research first on the therapist. And if he married and have experience with married couples.

And make a appointment to just get to know him once and see what he is about and if it clicks. If it gos well you can choose to start go with your husband.

 

I think you need to have patience with your husband and help him realize what real love is and work on his self esteem.

Losing both parents is not something small. Specially if you young.

And hes going true that pain also.

 

While being patience be also busy with working on this issue.

He needs to do his part and effort. And learn to say no! Standup for himself!

But first he needs to see that this men and women are not good as they say.

And accept the reality of it and things!

He needs to realize that his body is his and he decide what happen to it or no.

 

The fact that you notice this and confront him and this old people is something a real wife that love his husband do! You are amazing.

And it may be someone like you that your husband need to wake him up.

But he needs to get to action also. And put a end to this disrespect!

 

You have to work on this. Because once you have kids you dont want this people around your kids and also doing this type of things that they doing to him to them.

Go hard on this and let him know if it not stop now it will end in a divorce.

 

Its his body and he is your husband. No one should touch him in any kind of inappropriate way or if he dont like it.

[holyrolypoly]

Thanks, it's been really hard. I asked him why he's attracted to this other girl and he tried to tell me he didn't know, and got mad when I asked for specifics. Maybe I shouldn't have, but I feel like at this point, the genie's out of the bottle and we have to deal with it. I got mad at him and told him to stop talking to me (I'm at my mom's house) because he asked why I'm mad over such a little thing. He's always saying it's a little thing when I'm upset, but when he's upset about something he acts like I'm Satan or something. I need time away to think. He's going back to work on Monday at this camp staying overnight with her for 5 days. He says he understands why I'm insecure but I shouldn't worry because he would never cheat on me. In my mind, lying is the same as cheating, and he might as well be. He's spending nights with a girl he told me he's attracted to while he admits that he's lied a lot in the past. It's the same as him sleeping with her. And the fact that she probably doesn't want him doesn't help, or the fact that he's basically saying he won't cheat because he's married to me and he loves me and not her. Of course he doesn't love her, he's only worked with her for a week.