Is this infidelity?

[JennyS]

A year after I moved back home to my husband after being on the brink of divorce, I have discovered three specific things that he has done that have really left me feeling betrayed and broken my trust in him.

 

A month ago, he inboxed a young lady who is riding her motorbike through Africa and asked if she was coming past our home town and said that he would love to meet her. He did not tell me about this. I only found out about this because once he had met up with her (while I was at work), had ridden on his bike with her around the city, she asked if she could spend the night camping in our garden. That's when he messaged to ask me if I minded hosting the "young adventurer". I was not thrilled about this, but agreed anyway. I only discovered how much he had helped her when I looked at her FB profile. If I hadn't discovered that I don't believe he would have told me.

 

Following on from this, while he was away on a guys only bike trip, I checked his history on his laptop. I discovered two particularly hurtful things:

1. He had used Google Translate to have a conversation with a woman in Argentina. One of the things he said to her was 20 million kisses would be better. When I asked him why he had had such an inappropriate conversation, his answer was that it was a stupid thing to do but he can't tell me why he did it. I was actually at home when he was doing this, as it was early on a Friday night.

2. He had visited the profile page of a woman he had been in an online relationship with while we were separated. He says that he just wanted to see how she was doing as he had felt sorry for her. Add to this the fact that, on the day we had our first post-separation "date" he asked me if I would mind if he stayed in touch with her and one other woman as he felt sorry for them as they were having a hard time. I told him directly that I would not be happy with that as the reason I had left him in the first place was his emotional unavailability and I did not see how he could sustain a healthy relationship with me as well as being in touch with two women he barely knew. He also told me, on the same day, that he was supposed to have been taking this woman for a ride on his motorbike as she "also likes bikes". She lives in the same city as us.

 

And please don't tell me that I need to get more involved in his interests because I ride with him on the bike, we have done bike trips together and I even bought us tickets to an upcoming Bike Festival. I have made every effort to create opportunities for quality time together and our sex life had never been better.

 

He is 54 years old and I am 52. Our daughters will be living with us for a couple more years as they are almost finished with university.

 

About 10 months ago he shut down his business that was causing him incredible stress and now works from home.

 

I feel like a fool because I really don't know what to do. I really need some input and opinion from others to try to put this into some kind of perspective. Thank you.

[ChickiePops]

Whether or not it's infidelity, it sure is disrespectful. He doesn't appear to have learned anything from your separation.

[Mrs. John Adams]

A year after I moved back home to my husband after being on the brink of divorce, I have discovered three specific things that he has done that have really left me feeling betrayed and broken my trust in him.

 

A month ago, he inboxed a young lady who is riding her motorbike through Africa and asked if she was coming past our home town and said that he would love to meet her. He did not tell me about this. I only found out about this because once he had met up with her (while I was at work), had ridden on his bike with her around the city, she asked if she could spend the night camping in our garden. That's when he messaged to ask me if I minded hosting the "young adventurer". I was not thrilled about this, but agreed anyway. I only discovered how much he had helped her when I looked at her FB profile. If I hadn't discovered that I don't believe he would have told me.

 

Following on from this, while he was away on a guys only bike trip, I checked his history on his laptop. I discovered two particularly hurtful things:

1. He had used Google Translate to have a conversation with a woman in Argentina. One of the things he said to her was 20 million kisses would be better. When I asked him why he had had such an inappropriate conversation, his answer was that it was a stupid thing to do but he can't tell me why he did it. I was actually at home when he was doing this, as it was early on a Friday night.

2. He had visited the profile page of a woman he had been in an online relationship with while we were separated. He says that he just wanted to see how she was doing as he had felt sorry for her. Add to this the fact that, on the day we had our first post-separation "date" he asked me if I would mind if he stayed in touch with her and one other woman as he felt sorry for them as they were having a hard time. I told him directly that I would not be happy with that as the reason I had left him in the first place was his emotional unavailability and I did not see how he could sustain a healthy relationship with me as well as being in touch with two women he barely knew. He also told me, on the same day, that he was supposed to have been taking this woman for a ride on his motorbike as she "also likes bikes". She lives in the same city as us.

 

And please don't tell me that I need to get more involved in his interests because I ride with him on the bike, we have done bike trips together and I even bought us tickets to an upcoming Bike Festival. I have made every effort to create opportunities for quality time together and our sex life had never been better.

 

He is 54 years old and I am 52. Our daughters will be living with us for a couple more years as they are almost finished with university.

 

About 10 months ago he shut down his business that was causing him incredible stress and now works from home.

 

I feel like a fool because I really don't know what to do. I really need some input and opinion from others to try to put this into some kind of perspective. Thank you.

 

if you were separated for a year and on the brink of divorce...why? What happened to make you move out of your home?

 

While you were separated...what kind of agreement did you have with each other? did you agree to separate but not date? did you agree to date but no sex? did you agree to live separate lives as single people?

 

It is very hard to speculate on a relationship that was already in deep trouble....without explanation of what happened previously.

[Satu]

You should make your displeasure felt.

 

Regardless of 'why' he did those things, he had no business doing them.

[d0nnivain]

E-mail exchanges alone do not amount to infidelity IMO. That technicality aside, I'd be atomic if my husband was actively trolling for younger female companions. That needs to stop & if he spins this around on you, I don't see a real future for your marriage.

[burnt]

A year after I moved back home to my husband after being on the brink of divorce, I have discovered three specific things that he has done that have really left me feeling betrayed and broken my trust in him.

 

More than the details of what he has done, the heart of the problem lies in what's bolded above.

 

Can you please provide some more details about YOUR relationship with your husband?

How long were you out of the house? (it's not clear from the way you phrased your first sentence).

 

When you say he was emotionally unavailable and that was the reason you left, did you two seek any sort of counseling to address that issue after you moved back in? How did the reconciliation go for the first year?

 

After you moved out, how did HE cope? I ask because, many times, after the wife leaves the man goes through a very hard hit but then finds way to "let go and move on". Him connecting with these women online may have been a way for him to fill the void. And if that's what happened then in all fairness, you cannot expect him to then suddenly cut off the connection that was formed during a time when you were gone.

 

I'm not criticizing you for leaving. What I'm saying is the source of his troubling behavior seems to be rooted in how you two connected (or failed to connect) prior to and during your separation.

 

And the cause of that separation is what you should focus on more than the specifics of his "borderline infidelity-type actions".

[JennyS]

Thank you for all your thoughtful responses. To answer the questions posed above: I was out of the home for 3 months. My husband only joined online dating sites once I had told him that I was going to file for divorce. I really don't have an issue with what took place during that time because we were in the process of a divorce, which was turning ugly (after 24 years of marriage he's fighting over furniture, but told me later that was the only thing he could do to slow down the process). He had several different women he was talking to online, including the lady whose Facebook profile he was looking at. This "relationship" probably lasted no more than 2 weeks.

 

We have been for counselling several times during our marriage, but did not go back after I moved back home after our reconciliation because he feels that it didn't help when we were going through the separation etc so it would be pointless. I did buy the book "How to get the love you want" but we have only done one of the activities in it. Having said that, our relationship was the best it's ever been. We have spent quality time together, going on camping bike trips, spent quality time together and worked together on improving our home. I have continued to go to a counsellor for help in setting personal goals etc. I have tried to encourage him to do things with his mates because I worry about him being home all the time since he started working from home. I have also asked him a couple of times if working from home is enough for him as he was used to seeing different people all day, but he just said he'd think about it. I must also mention that when I left him he went to the doctor (which I had been asking him to do) and was diagnosed with depression. However, he has since stopped taking his medication.

 

I am a teacher so I am quite busy, but I seldom bring work home and am usually home by 4.30.

 

I hope this information paints a clearer picture. I really need to be able to gather up all these thoughts and feelings and come to some kind of decision, and value your input.

[seamos]

Mid-life crisis?? Whatever it is it certainly is disrespectful to you.

[JennyS]

I have also thought that it could be a mid-life crisis - even asked him but he says it's not. In response to my questions he says that there is nothing missing from our relationship, that I am enough wife for him, that he does not want anyone else, but cannot explain the lies and deceptions. He somehow doesn't grasp how much this has hurt me. In isolation, each of the three incidents seem harmless enough, but having all taken place in the space of a month, and with me not knowing what else has taken place online (there were some Swingers Heaven sites listed in his browser history that he swears are the result of spam he still receives from being on the dating sites) it looks to me like he was on a slippery slope to some kind of infidelity.

[chapter44]

IMHO his behavior is completely inappropriate. Whether or not he is engaging in physical sex with either of them is irrelevant. His behavior is deceitful and hurtful and not at all what I would expect from a person who is genuinely trying to save his marriage.

 

I think you're setting yourself up for further heartache.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Jenny, a few questions. How would you describe the state of your marriage in the first ten years, the second ten years and the last few years? When did you start feeling that your husband was neglecting you emotionally? What was the final trigger that caused you to seperate?

Whatever may be the underlying problem, the fact is that if trust is missing in the relationship it is doomed. Your answers to the above questions will help in giving you more perspective. Warm wishes.

[dichotomy]

Sounds like he is "dipping his toe in the water" but perhaps not specifically cheating yet. Give your separation it may be that is he unsure of your marriage - or unwilling to go full commitment to you again.

[elaine567]

The most worrying aspect of this is that these events happened during a time in your marriage that you describe as "our relationship was the best it's ever been."

 

So something is not right here. YOUR perception of the marriage is not I guess matching up with his perception of the marriage.

From his perspective something is still lacking, if he feels the need to engage with other women.

 

I could be wrong but I guess he spent quite a while when you were gone chasing other women most likely online but I cannot exclude IRL either. The hottie taken for a ride on his motor bike to see the sights and "camping" in your garden, may not have been a one off.

He likes the attention I guess, and is finding it difficult to stop.

 

Also something else that is concerning for you.

YOU apparently initiated the separation and the pending divorce, but as the dumpee it doesn't sound like he spent long grieving for his marriage or you for that matter, he was right in there on dating sites...

It was like you were immediately replaceable.

[mikeylo]

From my pov and if tables were turned , I would reinstate the divorce proceedings. Name it either way - infidelity , depression , separation, disrespect, whatever but not a guy worth living your life with.

[JennyS]

Hi Jenny, a few questions. How would you describe the state of your marriage in the first ten years, the second ten years and the last few years? When did you start feeling that your husband was neglecting you emotionally? What was the final trigger that caused you to seperate?

Whatever may be the underlying problem, the fact is that if trust is missing in the relationship it is doomed. Your answers to the above questions will help in giving you more perspective. Warm wishes.

 

In answer to your questions:

First ten years were both good and bad. Although we did all the things most couples do - bought a new home, had our two daughters and so on - I was incredibly lonely. I had the privilege of staying home with the girls for the first 5 years or so, but kept busy doing things with them, sewing from home etc. After we bought a home computer, H became addicted to gaming, and would come home from work, eat and play on the computer until long after I had gone to bed. I tried in many ways to get his attention, but he is not a man who can easily express his emotions, and I remained unfulfilled. This led to what is probably my greatest shame, which is that I made friends with someone online; a married man who was also lonely and unhappy in his marriage. This relationship was purely friendship and an escape. I really enjoyed the attention - silly things like being asked about me and my feelings, thoughts and ambitions. We met once for coffee, and I realised on that day that he was definitely not a man I should be risking my marriage for as I felt nothing for him. A few days later I told him that I could not stay in contact any more as I needed to sort my life out without any distractions. About a month later, I asked my H for a divorce. His reactions was so surprising - he was devastated, and couldn't understand why I wanted to leave. He asked if there was another man, so I explained that I had been in touch with this guy but that absolutely nothing had happened between us, and that I had ended it already. He then seemed to focus on what I had done, and the reasons for my asking for a divorce were forgotten. After going through hell for several weeks, he finally accepted my assurance that nothing beyond friendship had taken place, and acknowledged the reasons for my having needed to reach out to a stranger for affirmation. We worked through everything, and even had a ceremony to renew our wedding vows on our 10th anniversary.

 

Shortly after that we were transferred to a different city, which brought a nice, fresh start. We bought a house that we worked on improving together, I completed my teaching qualification, and things were going really well. We emigrated to the UK, which didn't work out as we had hoped, but we did everything as a partnership.

 

Second ten years: We decided to return home and H opened his own shop, which involved a long-time hobby. We were all so positive and hopeful at this time, and behind him as a family. After a few years, however, I noticed that he was once again becoming very distant and emotionally unavailable. He was happy to talk about everyday things, but not about anything deep or emotional. I asked him to go to counselling with me, but he was not keen. (I do understand that he is very intimidated by having to talk about his feelings, so did not force the issue.) I, however, went for counselling and saw a psychologist who told me that I did not want to leave my husband, I just needed to learn how to relate to him.

 

I eventually decided that I could no longer wait around to be "seen" by my husband as more than the mother of his children and provider of meals. I once again asked for a divorce, and we went through the same kind of drama. He can never understand why I want to leave, and even makes comments like, "Other women stay with men whose husbands have affairs or who beat them. What have I done that is so wrong?" Long story short, we went for counselling and made a promise to work on our issues etc. This was when we had been married for about 20 years.

 

The lead up to our separation is basically the same story - me feeling lonely, our sex life non-existent and my H caught up in his now failing business. I am a communicative, problem-solving type of person by nature, and I tried in so many ways to make suggestions, and offered to help but he just saw it as me interfering. All this took a toll on his health, and led to depression, but he refused to remain on the medication.

 

I eventually decided that enough was enough, and made arrangement to leave. He was, once again, devastated that I was leaving. At first he said that he understood and that he would give me time. However, when I did not want to see him regularly, he became angry and resentful. Sent me emails listing all the symptoms of depression that he had etc. However, once I had filed for divorce, I started to worry that I was perhaps making the right decision. We met to discuss the divorce papers, and both of us picked up a 'vibe' that maybe we still had feelings for one another, which is what led to me moving back home about a month later.

 

The things that he has done have completely blindsided me because they are so out of character. And that hardest thing for me is that this all happened during what has genuinely been the best year of our marriage.

 

I have now told him exactly how I feel about all the things that he has done, including 'Liking" the sexy selfie profile pics of the many foreign women he had accepted as friends on FB (since deleted), and have put the ball firmly in his court. I have told him that my decision will be based on how he deals with this situation going forward. He has finally seen a psychologist, but it concerns me that he seems to think that the psychologist will be able to tell him why he did all these things when he claims to have been so happy. I have told him that he is going to have to do some urgent soul searching if we are to repair this marriage.

 

At this stage, I feel too tired to do anything else.

 

Sorry such a long message - told you I am a communicator!

[elaine567]

I am glad he is seeking help.

 

I hope not, for your sake, but on LS but we have occasionally had some older men who after an episode of cheating by their wives, stay for the kids and when the kids leave they leave too.

I am just slightly concerned that this may be what is happening here.

Your daughters leave for good in the next two years, and he is now checking out other women in preparation perhaps...

 

Make sure your finances are in order and he is not squirrelling away money.

 

He may have had plenty chances to leave in the past, but his kids were still around, he may have felt his work was not done as a father.

[JennyS]

@elaine567 I don't think that is the plan because he has always struggled in his relationship with our daughters, so I feel that if he wanted to leave he would have by now. Our older daughter, with whom he has an easier relationship, will be leaving in 3 months anyway.

 

I also know that we had been looking forward to being free to do what we like and had even talked about me working toward starting my own business so that I can leave teaching so that our time is our own. We have talked about long distance bike trips and he has bought all the gear we need. I'm not dismissing your suggestions entirely though, because most of what I thought I knew for sure is now very uncertain to me.

 

I don't think he is putting money away, but I do think that I will get our finances in order, if only to ensure that we are paying equally towards all our joint and family expenses and that I won't look around one day and realise that I've been paying more than was fair.

[Liam1]

Jenny:

 

If I am reading your posts properly, it appears that you thrice asked for a divorce.

 

My marriage counselor insists that asking for a divorce and moving out is actually more devastating to a marriage than an affair.

 

Why?

 

Because it is a sign you are done. An affair is a distraction and something you do when you DO NOT want a divorce.

 

But moving out, is a very hurtful action. It implies that the person no longer wants to be with you at all.

 

Could this be the real issue?

 

In answer to your questions:

First ten years were both good and bad. Although we did all the things most couples do - bought a new home, had our two daughters and so on - I was incredibly lonely. I had the privilege of staying home with the girls for the first 5 years or so, but kept busy doing things with them, sewing from home etc. After we bought a home computer, H became addicted to gaming, and would come home from work, eat and play on the computer until long after I had gone to bed. I tried in many ways to get his attention, but he is not a man who can easily express his emotions, and I remained unfulfilled. This led to what is probably my greatest shame, which is that I made friends with someone online; a married man who was also lonely and unhappy in his marriage. This relationship was purely friendship and an escape. I really enjoyed the attention - silly things like being asked about me and my feelings, thoughts and ambitions. We met once for coffee, and I realised on that day that he was definitely not a man I should be risking my marriage for as I felt nothing for him. A few days later I told him that I could not stay in contact any more as I needed to sort my life out without any distractions. About a month later, I asked my H for a divorce. His reactions was so surprising - he was devastated, and couldn't understand why I wanted to leave. He asked if there was another man, so I explained that I had been in touch with this guy but that absolutely nothing had happened between us, and that I had ended it already. He then seemed to focus on what I had done, and the reasons for my asking for a divorce were forgotten. After going through hell for several weeks, he finally accepted my assurance that nothing beyond friendship had taken place, and acknowledged the reasons for my having needed to reach out to a stranger for affirmation. We worked through everything, and even had a ceremony to renew our wedding vows on our 10th anniversary.

 

Shortly after that we were transferred to a different city, which brought a nice, fresh start. We bought a house that we worked on improving together, I completed my teaching qualification, and things were going really well. We emigrated to the UK, which didn't work out as we had hoped, but we did everything as a partnership.

 

Second ten years: We decided to return home and H opened his own shop, which involved a long-time hobby. We were all so positive and hopeful at this time, and behind him as a family. After a few years, however, I noticed that he was once again becoming very distant and emotionally unavailable. He was happy to talk about everyday things, but not about anything deep or emotional. I asked him to go to counselling with me, but he was not keen. (I do understand that he is very intimidated by having to talk about his feelings, so did not force the issue.) I, however, went for counselling and saw a psychologist who told me that I did not want to leave my husband, I just needed to learn how to relate to him.

 

I eventually decided that I could no longer wait around to be "seen" by my husband as more than the mother of his children and provider of meals. I once again asked for a divorce, and we went through the same kind of drama. He can never understand why I want to leave, and even makes comments like, "Other women stay with men whose husbands have affairs or who beat them. What have I done that is so wrong?" Long story short, we went for counselling and made a promise to work on our issues etc. This was when we had been married for about 20 years.

 

The lead up to our separation is basically the same story - me feeling lonely, our sex life non-existent and my H caught up in his now failing business. I am a communicative, problem-solving type of person by nature, and I tried in so many ways to make suggestions, and offered to help but he just saw it as me interfering. All this took a toll on his health, and led to depression, but he refused to remain on the medication.

 

I eventually decided that enough was enough, and made arrangement to leave. He was, once again, devastated that I was leaving. At first he said that he understood and that he would give me time. However, when I did not want to see him regularly, he became angry and resentful. Sent me emails listing all the symptoms of depression that he had etc. However, once I had filed for divorce, I started to worry that I was perhaps making the right decision. We met to discuss the divorce papers, and both of us picked up a 'vibe' that maybe we still had feelings for one another, which is what led to me moving back home about a month later.

 

The things that he has done have completely blindsided me because they are so out of character. And that hardest thing for me is that this all happened during what has genuinely been the best year of our marriage.

 

I have now told him exactly how I feel about all the things that he has done, including 'Liking" the sexy selfie profile pics of the many foreign women he had accepted as friends on FB (since deleted), and have put the ball firmly in his court. I have told him that my decision will be based on how he deals with this situation going forward. He has finally seen a psychologist, but it concerns me that he seems to think that the psychologist will be able to tell him why he did all these things when he claims to have been so happy. I have told him that he is going to have to do some urgent soul searching if we are to repair this marriage.

 

At this stage, I feel too tired to do anything else.

 

Sorry such a long message - told you I am a communicator!

[standtall]

At best, it is very disrespectful to you. At worst, he's looking to cheat.

[JennyS]

Once again, thank you to everyone who has offered advice and opinions.

 

@Liam1 - I can only imagine the pain of your partner wanting to leave you, but I know only too well the pain of being ignored by your partner when you are present and trying to contribute to a happy marriage. There is only so long that someone can deal with that kind of rejection before they feel the need to escape. I'd rather be lonely on my own than lonely with my husband.

 

An update: I have thought long and hard about all of this, and have come to the conclusion that we have been through too much to end our marriage over these issues. I have insisted that he continue with counselling until he feels he understands himself better and is able to understand the reasons behind his actions. If at any time the counsellor feels he needs to speak with me about anything, I will be more than willing to do that.

 

I have explained that although my H thinks these things were just "stupid things to do", they have in fact hurt me deeply, and he will need to accept that although I am doing my best to move on, there will be times when I seem to need to clarify issues once again. He has said that he is happy to work through this with me.

 

I have made some suggestions as to why I think he got involved in all of this, not least of which is his apparent addiction to Facebook, which he has deactivated for now, of his own will. I do not think that that is a solution to the problem, but if it helps him for now that's fine.

 

We are taking it as it comes, and keeping communication open.

 

Thanks so much for all the help - I was so desperate when I first posted, and was so reassured by the responses.

[BettyDraper]

IMHO his behavior is completely inappropriate. Whether or not he is engaging in physical sex with either of them is irrelevant. His behavior is deceitful and hurtful and not at all what I would expect from a person who is genuinely trying to save his marriage.

 

I think you're setting yourself up for further heartache.

 

This. You have reconciled but your husband is still behaving like a single man.

Sending messages is not cheating but he is still on a very slippery slope.

Since your husband doesn't have a lot of insight into his behavior, individual counseling may in order for him as well.

He seems like he's in denial.

Edited May 26, 2016 by BettyDraper

[JennyS]

I am finding it difficult to get over the issues that I have explained in previous posts, even though several weeks have passed. The psychologist my H was seeing didn't seem to be able to help, told him that me wanting to look at his Facebook page was an invasion of his privacy! Anyhow, the problem I have now is that my H still cannot explain the reasons for his actions and cannot even tell me the emotions he was feeling at the time. Am I asking too much? I feel I can't move on without being able to make sense of how this all happened in the first place.

[elaine567]

The psychologist my H was seeing didn't seem to be able to help, told him that me wanting to look at his Facebook page was an invasion of his privacy!

 

Did he say that or was that what your husband relayed to you?

[road]

I am finding it difficult to get over the issues that I have explained in previous posts, even though several weeks have passed. The psychologist my H was seeing didn't seem to be able to help, told him that me wanting to look at his Facebook page was an invasion of his privacy! Anyhow, the problem I have now is that my H still cannot explain the reasons for his actions and cannot even tell me the emotions he was feeling at the time. Am I asking too much? I feel I can't move on without being able to make sense of how this all happened in the first place.

 

 

This a bad shrink.

 

 

He is only interested in telling your WH what he wants to hear instead of him telling your WH what he needs to do. Those that have nothing to hide, hide nothing.

 

 

You see if he told your WH that he was wrong and you were right then your WH would stop going to see him. This Dr is about keeping people seeing him and paying him money for each session. So this Dr will never tell your WH anything that your WH does not want to hear.

[JennyS]

Anyhow, the problem I have now is that my H still cannot explain the reasons for his actions and cannot even tell me the emotions he was feeling at the time. Am I asking too much? I feel I can't move on without being able to make sense of how this all happened in the first place.

 

Can anybody put this into some kind of perspective for me? Do men really just do things like this without giving it another thought? Am I asking something that is impossible for him to do?