Jump to content

Financially Irresponsible Fiancé - and we're in debt!


Recommended Posts

Please bear with the long post... So we've been together for 3.5 years now, engaged for almost a year (the wedding is a year away). We're both in our late twenties, and both just started medical school. Our financial situation is very tough right now. Although we both had well-paying jobs before medical school, the costs of school are astronomical - we're living entirely off student loans, and expect to have a combined 400k in debt (minimum!) when we graduate in 4 years. We keep our bank accounts separate at this point, but do live together, pay rent together, buy food/household necessities together, etc.

 

I have always been more of a saver - I squirreled away a small retirement account over the 5 years I've been working after college, and have a savings account and a very good credit score. I paid off all my undergraduate debt before starting medical school. My fiance, however, is not great with finances. He is prone to making unnecessary large purchases - he's bought two new cars and a new Harley in the last 5 years, as well a $5000 bicycle last year. He has a very mediocre credit score due to the amount of debt he has, and never uses credit cards and so does not even have a way to improve his credit rating. His student loan interest rates are very high because of this (much higher than mine). He had no undergraduate loans, but also did not save a single penny over the past 5 years of making nearly a 6-figure salary, and instead blew all his disposable income on his expensive toys. No retirement account either.

 

Unfortunately, he is also very stubborn. Now, he decided that he NEEDS another new bicycle for commuting, which costs $2000. He already has a commuting bicycle that he bought used just a few months ago, but dislikes it because it's not high-enough quality. He argues that he can afford the new bike by financing it through the shop, which will let him pay $30 a month at a 8% interest rate or something like that. The fact that it will take over 6 YEARS to pay off this bike doesn't seem to bother him. I've tried to convince him to look for something cheaper or used, but he's got his heart set on this $2000 monster.

 

How do I convince him that he needs to take more financial responsibility and think about the future instead of buying yet another expensive new bike?? I am terrified to marry this man and see this financial behavior gets worse over the years. He is very smart and reasonable in most ways, but he's obsessed with bikes and other certain toys, and will not listen to reason. I've also been trying to convince him to start using a credit card and paying off the balance each month, to build a better credit score, to no avail. He refuses and pays for everything with debit.

 

Please help! :(

Link to post
Share on other sites
I've also been trying to convince him to start using a credit card and paying off the balance each month, to build a better credit score, to no avail. He refuses and pays for everything with debit.

 

Please help! :(

 

Someone who lacks the discipline to save will not have the willpower to pay off a credit card each month. Be glad he's using debit or he could layer another strata of 25% APR debt on top your student loans.

 

You do realize this is what courtship is for, right? It's a chance to ensure you're on the same page when it comes to kids, sex, religion, interests - and finances.

 

So far the process has worked in revealing your financial incompatibility. Knowledge is power...

 

Mr. Lucky

  • Like 9
Link to post
Share on other sites

The kid just needs to have his toys. Just wait till you're married and financially strait-jacketed to him, and his debtors start coming after you to pay off his stuff... you do realize this will never end, right? Well, look on the bright side: you can declare bankruptcy every 7 years or so and start over again. :o

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think this is something you can ever 'convince' him to do. It isn't something as minor as splurging on a latte every couple of weeks or such - he's making HUGE unnecessary purchases while still in debt! Nobody NEEDS two cars and a Harley and two bicycles. Big red flag IMO.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

You can't convince him to operate differently. He's showing you who he is and how his mind works. Even if you can get him to agree to saving, I bet you'd be having to bully him into putting aside money.

 

Mr Lucky is spot on: This time in your lives is when you make the final decision about whether or not a person is the right fit for you. Better to realise that they are a bad fit now than after the marriage.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
TaraMaiden2

Run.

Just run.

I need say no more.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
I am terrified to marry this man and see this financial behavior gets worse over the years. He is very smart and reasonable in most ways, but he's obsessed with bikes and other certain toys, and will not listen to reason. I've also been trying to convince him to start using a credit card and paying off the balance each month, to build a better credit score, to no avail. He refuses and pays for everything with debit.

 

Please help! :(

 

YOU are right to be terrified as although he will be earning a big sum when qualified, he will just buy bigger and more expensive "toys" and his spend thrift ways will colour your marriage.

YOU may be able to subsidise him initially, with your large salary too, but whilst you scrimp and save, he will have big periodical spending binges which may necessitate raiding your savings too.

Once you have kids, he will either be the Dad that buys loads of stuff under the illusion it is for the kids or he will resent the kids and spend the money on his own stuff regardless.

 

I think spenders only become savers when they have reached rock bottom and get a big shock, otherwise they just spend and others suffer.

Arguing over money, is one of the biggest reasons for divorce.

Be careful, you seem to be financially incompatible.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
YOU are right to be terrified as although he will be earning a big sum when qualified, he will just buy bigger and more expensive "toys" and his spend thrift ways will colour your marriage.

 

^^^ This!

 

With that mentality, there's a sliding scale of greater consumption that comes into play as income rises.

 

I have a friend that declared BK this past year despite a $300K annual income. A fortune to you or me, but once you service the debt on a NetJets card, second home, art collection and motorcycle racing hobby, you have the same cash flow issues as anyone else...

 

Mr. Lucky

Link to post
Share on other sites
TrustedthenBusted

As others have said....he won't change....much. The toys will only get more expensive as your income rises after medical school. And he will justify them in any way that will work on you as you go along. This, you will have to take, or leave.

 

Now. I was a lot like your fiancee as a younger man. When I wanted something, I bought it, usually with cash, but often without much in the way of financial planning. Immediate gratification was my thing, and I love toys. Since getting married, I've learned to choose my battles more wisely, and I have become much more of a saver/investor over the years, but never to my wife's satisfaction. There ARE still battles is what i'm saying.

 

She would go through life with a pile of money and no toys. I'd choose a pile of toys and no money. That's just how we differ.

 

What you need to do is figure out how and where you are willing to compromise, and be honest with yourself about the answer. Little issues prior to marriage become BIG issues down the road. Big issues prior to marriage become marriage enders.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
Nobody NEEDS two cars and a Harley and two bicycles. Big red flag IMO.

 

Yeah, my SO is a cyclist and we now find his car near obsolete. He also got his bicycle off of Craigslist for $100. Other than general maintenance he has put lights on the bike, and I bought him panniers. He rides that bike rain, snow, or shine. When he does need a car it's usually when we are out running around together and then we take my car. Since he started commuting back and forth to work on his bicycle we have found being a one car family would be better for us.

 

I would think twice before walking down the aisle. Financial burden is one of the slow killers of many relationships, and at the least it breeds life long resentments. I think it is imperative to be on the same page financially with a significant other. There's just too much to lose, otherwise.

 

But, I would not encourage him to use a credit card to build his score just yet. Not everyone can responsibly manage a credit card, and he does not sound like someone who would use it wisely.

Edited by Ms. Faust
Link to post
Share on other sites

He's not in a mindset of being responsible and sensible = do not marry him any time soon - he's acting like a child.

 

You will grow to resent him further if things don't change. If he doesn't grow up then consider leaving the relationship since this seems important to you and not to him.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author
Run.

Just run.

I need say no more.

 

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I definitely understand why you are alarmed at his behavior - I definitely am, and I don't want to see it spiral out of control someday. However, I don't want to call it quits over this without trying to work through the problems. We have a great relationships and love each other, and I would say that we're compatible in pretty much every other way.

 

I think a large part of the issue is that he is simply not educated in personal finances. His parents completely ignored that part of this education when he was growing up, and his college major didn't even come close to anything money-related. He did not even know what a retirement account or a credit score WAS, until he met me. I would gladly manage the household finances if we were already married, but in the meanwhile, he wants to deal with his money (or rather lack thereof) himself. I'm not even sure if he'd be OK with me managing the household finances, actually, but anyways.

 

He also avoids spending money on certain things that are not in the category of 'expensive toys/hobbies'. He refuses to buy himself clothes or shoes unless he absolutely NEEDS to, doesn't eat out much, doesn't go blowing money drinking in bars or anything like that. However, he thinks nothing of taking on debt by dropping $2k on yet another bicycle (he already has 2 bikes!), or a $500 top-of-the-line helmet, or a $300 power drill that he used exactly once, etc etc.

 

Is there anything I can try to get him back on planet Earth and become more of a saver/practical spender, instead of spending large sums on his toys? Premarital financial counseling? A prenup??? Tell him to grow up? I don't even know how much debt he has, to be honest. He took out a $25k loan right after college to get himself the new car, furniture, etc., and told me that he's paid it off since - but I've never seen a statement, so I don't know if he still owes anything. I also don't know exactly how much in student loan debt he has at this point... Red flags everywhere, I know, but I love this guy. :/

Link to post
Share on other sites

Make your finances the patient. Ask him what he would do for a patient who was hemorrhaging (bleeding $$) and both malnourished (means eats unhealthy stuff) but obese and diabetic. His unwillingness to address the problem is the same as somebody who continues to eat candy & soda after being told they are about to amputate toe from the sugar.

 

After he comes up with a a treatment plan, make him follow his own advise.

 

as they say, physician heal thyself.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
I also don't know exactly how much in student loan debt he has at this point... Red flags everywhere, I know, but I love this guy. :/

 

Is he tech oriented in general? There are a bunch of apps to track spending, here's an article discussing 7 of the best ones:

 

https://www.dailyworth.com/posts/2815-7-of-the-best-money-management-apps

 

Mr. Lucky

Link to post
Share on other sites

My husband of 6 years has accrued nearly $15,000 in debt on 2 credit cards and a Pay Pal credit account...and that has just been over about the past 2 years. He hasn't told me this, I've just found out via snooping. In fact, he told me he was almost debt free until this last collections company demanded $2500 from him. Pfft! He was no where NEAR debt free at that time. HE was only $12,000 in debt then! He hasn't even told me that he has this PayPal credit account. Ah the things you find when snooping!

 

The hilarious thing, if you can call it that, is that he owes like $7500 on one card, another $5300 on another card and the rest on PayPal and he makes like $50 payments every month! Does he not realize the interest itself on those is nearly $100/month?! $50 a month is nothing. Then there's me who has $0 credit card debt and never has. I pay off my credit card (when I use it) within a month.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author
I missed it. Do you two have kids?

 

No kids yet, but hopefully someday...after we're done with school.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author
My husband of 6 years has accrued nearly $15,000 in debt on 2 credit cards and a Pay Pal credit account...and that has just been over about the past 2 years. He hasn't told me this, I've just found out via snooping. In fact, he told me he was almost debt free until this last collections company demanded $2500 from him. Pfft! He was no where NEAR debt free at that time. HE was only $12,000 in debt then! He hasn't even told me that he has this PayPal credit account. Ah the things you find when snooping!

 

The hilarious thing, if you can call it that, is that he owes like $7500 on one card, another $5300 on another card and the rest on PayPal and he makes like $50 payments every month! Does he not realize the interest itself on those is nearly $100/month?! $50 a month is nothing. Then there's me who has $0 credit card debt and never has. I pay off my credit card (when I use it) within a month.

 

That's...kind of terrifying. Sorry to hear that you're going through this...so how are you dealing with it? Any strategies that you've heard of to help rein in the spending?

Link to post
Share on other sites
...You do realize this is what courtship is for, right? It's a chance to ensure you're on the same page when it comes to kids, sex, religion, interests - and finances.

So far the process has worked in revealing your financial incompatibility. Knowledge is power...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

ahh, to be young and stupid: thinking that love will conquer all.

 

your ONLY hope is to sit him down and explain in simple, clear terms that his spending CHOICES are making you reconsider this relationship. then see if he chooses YOU or that bike.

 

BTW he will 'say' you then buy the bike (because he doesn't believe you will walk), you will still marry him (back to the young and...) and in 15 years we will see you back here wondering what went wrong.

 

good luck.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
ahh, to be young and stupid: thinking that love will conquer all.

 

your ONLY hope is to sit him down and explain in simple, clear terms that his spending CHOICES are making you reconsider this relationship. then see if he chooses YOU or that bike.

 

BTW he will 'say' you then buy the bike (because he doesn't believe you will walk), you will still marry him (back to the young and...) and in 15 years we will see you back here wondering what went wrong.

 

good luck.

 

 

 

 

Ahhh... to be old, jaded, and cynical. Knowing exactly what's going to happen in the future. So much knowledge and experience there, poisoned by the ravages of pain and time. lol

 

 

This is exactly why I am searching for the secret to immortality. I want to work out until I'm in good shape, and find it while I'm young enough to be good looking and semi-optimistic for the rest of my life.

Link to post
Share on other sites
WasOtherWoman

People fight about three major things: money, sex and kids

 

Your views on money are drastically different. Do you really think you want to marry someone who handles money so radically different than you do? You will always be "on-guard" with respect to his spending. And, his debt will at some point be yours.

 

I certainly would not tie myself to someone, who has such drastically different view than I did, legally.

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
stillafool
No kids yet, but hopefully someday...after we're done with school.

 

 

Are you kidding me???? You are planning on marrying this guy? You will be miserable and lucky if you can even afford kids.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
your ONLY hope is to sit him down and explain in simple, clear terms that his spending CHOICES are making you reconsider this relationship. then see if he chooses YOU or that bike.

 

Having seen this up close with a family member, the inability to understand financial cause and effect is a pretty serious disconnect. When someone making $500/week takes on a $500/month car payment - or someone living on student loans buys a $2K bike - there's a staggering amount of fiscal immaturity demonstrated...

 

Mr. Lucky

Edited by Mr. Lucky
  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
That's...kind of terrifying. Sorry to hear that you're going through this...so how are you dealing with it? Any strategies that you've heard of to help rein in the spending?

 

I mine as well laugh rather than cry about it. He has never been conscious of his spending. If he wants it, he gets it and he gives me every reason as to how it's not a big deal because he'll make monthly payments and it will be paid off in a year, etc, which it never is. Of course then you have that and 5 other things that are being paid off at the same time. He'll tell me "we've got to be strict about our spending" but that will last 2 days and then he's off spending $100 at the grocery store and then coming home and be too lazy to cook anything and spend $50 on takeout or buying a part for his motorcycle which is $300. He says that he's going to work at getting his one motorcycle back together and sell that and says he can't probably get $20,000 for it. Pfft, whatever. But he is holding on to that because then that will eliminate his debt. There is no other way it is going to get paid off unless he sells that bike.

Link to post
Share on other sites
×
×
  • Create New...