The other man holds all the cards

[Horton]

Let me preface this by saying that these are my observations from seeing a pattern play out over and over again in just about every single situation I've ever come across. I'm not saying there are never any exceptions to the rule, but this is what I've always encountered.

 

From reading so many people's situations(especially those WW's who are just now getting out of an affair) but also FWW's and BH's side of the story. I've come to the conclusion that if the OM in any given adulterous relationship would have

 

A. Had his sh*t together(not a drug addict/criminal, not living hand to mouth etc.)

 

&

 

B. Actually wanted to start a life with the WW(instead of just using her as a living breathing fleshlight, or getting an ego boost from 'conquering' another man's wife.)

 

The WW would have moved heaven and earth in order to be with the OM. I'll explain in detail where I get this belief from.

 

Every situation that I've read about, heard about from others or know of personally where it's the wife who cheated and the couple is now reconciling. The OM almost universally falls into one of the categories I previously listed. He's either a guy who she knows she would have had a hard life with(no money, a criminal, drug/alcohol problems, serial adulterer etc.) or he's a guy who does have much of what she values(good career, charming, handsome, good in bed etc.) but she eventually finds out that he was just future faking her in order to get her into bed.

 

Each case where a wife has an OM who is considered 'less' than her husband(at least by society's standards) where the BH is considered better looking, a better lover, a better provider, more intelligent, funnier etc. than the OM(the term affair down is used a lot) These facts(and I'm not denying that they're true) are brought up over and over again by both the FWW and the BH as somehow being a 'win' for the BH over her 'worthless loser' OM and yet nobody ever stops and asks themselves what would the WW have done if the OM was better looking, smarter, wealthier etc. than her BH?

 

If that's the reason why the BH 'wins' and he gets to keep his own wife(lucky him) then isn't this just a case of where it's what the BH can provide for her being the one thing that keeps her in a marriage she already deemed worth losing by having an affair in the first place? And all of those qualities(career, appearance, personality) can change for better or worse given time, or just as likely another OM can always come along some day who is 'better' than the BH in those categories. Then what happens? She 'affaired down' before, but now if the OM is her BH's 'superior' then she's considered to be trading up if she chooses him over her husband? At what point does all of this break down into just a bunch of superficial horsesh*t?

 

Can you imagine an old man telling his life story to his grandchildren? "Well at that point your grandma met another gentlemen that she risked our entire family's happiness for, but it turned out he drove an old Honda civic so she decided to just stick it out with me instead." WTF, maybe I'm just too sentimental, but this sounds like a pretty awful love story in my estimation.

 

This may not be considered PC anymore, but I also believe that men and women think differently and tend to do things with different motives/reasons. Along with that, men and women generally get into an affair for different motives/reasons as well. When a MM has an affair it is usually a case of wanting more rather than wanting to replace what he already has. This is why there's an entire sub forum filled with OW(some of them married themselves) going over their MM's every word/action with a magnifying glass like Sherlock Holmes just hoping to find the 'evidence' that he truly is the genuine article and not completely full of sh*t like every other MM they've read about and yet it's almost unheard of for a MM to do the same. MM aren't spending their free time comparing their findings with other MM about their OW. This indicates to me that the importance placed on the extramarital affair is very one sided along gender lines and that while the MM is often the OW's 'destiny' in the MM's eyes the OW just happened to be at the right place and the right time. I believe this same scenario plays itself out when a MW cheats as well. From reading the WW's own words while in an affair they tend to speak about their situation as though the OM and her are star crossed lovers being kept apart by cruel fate.

 

However if you read the handful of OM's accounts of an affair, you get the sense that he can't believe that this woman was actually foolish enough to risk everything she once held dear(her husband, her children, her integrity/dignity) just to be his side piece for a little while and this undoubtedly strokes the OM's ego a great deal. Knowing that if he really wanted to with a mere phone call he could have had another man's wife and the mother of said man's children at his beck and call. And of course when the WW realizes this was all a game to him and she becomes a FWW her tune changes quite dramatically and she drops the whole 'star crossed lovers' bromide and starts sounding more and more like the victim of a predator while embracing this 'fog' notion quite strongly.

 

I believe that this also explains why there is such a focus on the OM by both the FWW and the BH who decide to reconcile. You see it get brought up from time to time on here and other places that the OM is basically depicted as an invader(coming in and stealing the once innocent WW away from her family) and the way a lot of BH's(particularly in the early stages after d-day) seem to focus almost all of their fury and righteous indignation exclusively on the OM, leads me to believe that the WW has painted her AP like he's Count Dracula to her husband's Van Helsing. Which is when we start hearing accusations of KISA(knight in shining armor) syndrome leveled at the still reeling BH.

 

This notion of 'the fog' that many subscribe to is fitting with the vampire allegory. Many men speak as though they believe their wife was almost hypnotized by the OM and was somehow acting against her own free will. My point is not so much to argue against this belief as much as it is to point out the logical implications that accepting this notion brings with it.

 

If the OM who looks like a bridge troll, whose dead broke, whose terrible in bed and has nothing of value that any woman would ever desire can get a BH's wife into his bed and 'convince' her to put her spouse, her children, her career and her self respect at risk, then what will she do when a man with model good looks, driving a brand new benz with a wallet full of cash tries to seduce her? Is she gonna just drop trou right there in the streets like a bit*h in heat? How can somebody put their entire future into the hands of a person who behaves so impulsively?

 

Finally you have the very rare scenario where the OM does have his life together and does wish to make the WW his own. We have such few examples of this that it's hard to extrapolate that much data from it, but what I do see in each of these situations that I've come across is that the OM who wanted her and had something to offer her that she desired does in fact 'win the prize' so to speak. I can't think of a single situation that I've ever read or witnessed in my own life where the OM had 'more' to offer a WW and actually wanted her as his wife, where the WW didn't throw her husband overboard to get what she believed to be a better life with the OM. Am I wrong about all of this?

[Spectre]

I don't care if the OM is a billionaire who can also endow you with super powers. He still doesn't have more to offer simply because only a piece of slime would get with a married woman. Money and success can't buy class and trash is trash no matter how expensive their clothes or home are.

[casey.lives]

being an "other" anything means you lack respect for yourself and the other person (you've brought them down) and you lack respect for committed two person romantic relationships (there beginning is just as important as there end ..they're scared) The dynamics of being the other is always more ego involved than anyone cares to admit.. from both cheaters side.

 

If you're married, you should be moving mountains for your marriage. koodos

[Horton]

I don't care if the OM is a billionaire who can also endow you with super powers. He still doesn't have more to offer simply because only a piece of slime would get with a married woman. Money and success can't buy class and trash is trash no matter how expensive their clothes or home are.

 

Agreed, but the FWW's and BH's who are reconciling tend to make the OM's social status(his appearance,finances,sex appeal or lack thereof etc.) as their number one target in their claims that he is in fact the BH's inferior(not his lack of moral character) so it seems to matter to them a great deal if I take their words at face value. Now logically I get that they would look silly/hypocritical if they focused on the one thing that actually matters. Namely that the OM is an adulterer, given the fact that the FWW is also guilty and yet the BH is still with her maybe they feel as though that's not something they can criticize the OM for as much so they just go for surface level attacks instead. Having said that, it still seems like a pretty shallow thing to base one's decision for staying in a marriage on.

 

being an "other" anything means you lack respect for yourself and the other person (you've brought them down) and you lack respect for committed two person romantic relationships (there beginning is just as important as there end ..they're scared) The dynamics of being the other is always more ego involved than anyone cares to admit.. from both cheaters side.

 

If you're married, you should be moving mountains for your marriage. koodos

 

I agree, being the "other" in somebody else's relationship is always a strike against one's personal worth regardless of any good qualities one might have. I also don't approve of this new morality system that says it's just between the married couple and that outsiders have no responsibility to behave in an ethical and honest manner with people who are already in a committed relationship.

 

The ego topic fascinates me because from reading the few OM accounts I've been able to find they overwhelmingly admit it's all about boosting their ego, getting a rush of power from 'taking' another man's wife, yet the WW's who are currently involved in an affair don't see it that way at all, after the affair is over they may see it for what it is, but almost never while it's still ongoing. I believe this is where the term 'affair fog' comes from, whether that idea holds water or not is another thing. Personally whenever I hear that term my first thought is "The devil made me do it." has made a comeback in new secular terminology.

[oldshirt]

Horton, I'm not sure I am following you completely or understand entirely what you are saying, but I do agree with you that many OM could walk away with the WW fairly easily.

 

 

I say this from my own experience as a serial OM in my youth.

 

 

In my mid 20s I was involved with several MW. I was a starving student and didn't have much money or power/social status so in that regard I was probably an "affair-down" as you put it.

 

 

However I do believe that with pretty much ALL of the MW I was involved with, I could have walked away with them if I had made a full-court press and made them a legitimate offer.

 

 

With pretty much all of them I was quite open and honest that I would NOT take full time even if they left their husbands and they still kept coming around. A few of them came around for a number of years.

 

 

My now wife was not married at the time but was living with a long term boyfriend that she had been with for almost 10 years since they were in high school. With her I did eventually make the full-court press and made her a legitimate offer and was willing to go to fisticuffs with her BF and here we are still married with a family 20 years later.

 

 

From my experience, I think most OM are just in it for the quick and easy poontang (my experience was it was easier to get NSA from married women than single women). Some may future fake, but I have the feeling most are probably more like me and were at least somewhat open and honest about not looking for a serious LTR with a MW.

 

 

A certain percentage are going to be degenerates and drunks and criminals from the bar.

 

 

But I think that many are playa's with a good song and dance and are offering at least one or two things that the MW aren't getting at home and that is enough to get them hooked. And once hooked I do think that if th OM would stand and fight for them and make the offer to take them full time, many of the MW would walk.

 

 

I have seen MW leave their homes and H's in a matter of days when the OM was better looking, higher status and made the legit offer.

 

 

That is why I think most BH's who's W's come home with tears and promises and begging to be taken back, are actually the second choice and the back up default when the W realizes the OM was just playing her for some poon.

 

 

I do believe most of those MW would be gone in a cloud of dust if the OM welcomed them in with open arms.

[oldshirt]

I also want to add, I think this is another area that separates the girls from the boys.

 

 

IMHO most WH's will enter into an affair and never once ever give serious thought to leaving the BW and marriage for the OM even if the A goes on for years and even the OW was younger and prettier.

 

 

 

 

However many WW's would leave the BH and marriage in a very short time if the OM was a legitimate candidate for a partner and agreed to take her full time.

 

 

WH will have an affair just for some extra @$$. When WW's enter into an affair, it is almost always a much more dire and darker scenario and a lot more risk of the marriage ultimately floundering.

[Horton]

Horton, I'm not sure I am following you completely or understand entirely what you are saying, but I do agree with you that many OM could walk away with the WW fairly easily.

 

oldshirt What you said in the following portion of your post is pretty much what I was attempting to communicate. I can be a little wordy sometimes.

 

But I think that many are playa's with a good song and dance and are offering at least one or two things that the MW aren't getting at home and that is enough to get them hooked. And once hooked I do think that if th OM would stand and fight for them and make the offer to take them full time, many of the MW would walk.

 

I have seen MW leave their homes and H's in a matter of days when the OM was better looking, higher status and made the legit offer.

 

That is why I think most BH's who's W's come home with tears and promises and begging to be taken back, are actually the second choice and the back up default when the W realizes the OM was just playing her for some poon.

 

I do believe most of those MW would be gone in a cloud of dust if the OM welcomed them in with open arms.

 

Agreed, if the OM isn't a complete f-up and actually wants the WW I believe he will have her. This is the theme I see over and over again in people's stories. As I said before it's easiest to see it in the words of a WW who is just now leaving her affair. It's at that time when she is at her angriest toward her OM for 'using' her and she's beginning to wake up to what his real motives were. They can't believe that they risked everything for nothing and now they feel like they're 'stuck' with the same husband and family that they tried to throw away IMO.

[Horton]

However many WW's would leave the BH and marriage in a very short time if the OM was a legitimate candidate for a partner and agreed to take her full time.

 

Here's how I see it, I'll use an analogy. It's a somewhat childish analogy, but I think just about everybody can relate to this. Sorry for the length again.

 

 

 

You're a kid in school, you and your best friend are very close, you tell each other everything, you protect each other and you always eat your lunch together at the same table every day. Then one day you show up to eat lunch and your best friend is nowhere to be found, so you sit there at an empty table by yourself and you get to looking around and you see your best friend is sitting at the 'cool kids' table just laughing it up with them. Later that day you try to speak with them and they give you the cold shoulder. This continues for awhile until eventually your now former best friend is joining them in their mocking of you.

 

And then one day the cool kids unceremoniously excommunicate your ex best friend from their little club and your former friend now realizes they were just being played for a fool. They sold you out in a failed attempt at 'trading up' on the social ladder and they got burned. So now here they are once again sitting at your table(cause even though you weren't valuable enough to remain loyal to you're still better than nothing) and you accept it, you eventually move past the initial anger at the injustice of what they're asking you to accept, you even have new happy experiences together almost like old times again, but at the back of your mind you'll always know that this person you cared for, trusted and protected tried to trade you in for a 'better' model and you will never forget it no matter how hard you try to stuff it down into the void.

 

They may eventually grow enough as a person to realize just how awful they were to you and they may even feel genuine remorse for what they've done to you. They may be able to honestly say they will never do this again(though my instinct tells me very few of them can say this without crossing their fingers behind their back) but the fact remains, this awful thing happened at their hands and nothing can ever erase it. This is why I don't understand the plan B scenario(which seems to be the rule rather than the exception when it comes to a BH/WW scenario) A person accepting being somebody's back up plan is simply incomprehensible to me. Which is why I said in my initial post that maybe I'm just too sentimental, perhaps I place marital 'oneness' too high on my list of priorities, expecting too much of other people.

[Mr. Lucky]

I believe that this also explains why there is such a focus on the OM by both the FWW and the BH who decide to reconcile. You see it get brought up from time to time on here and other places that the OM is basically depicted as an invader(coming in and stealing the once innocent WW away from her family) and the way a lot of BH's(particularly in the early stages after d-day) seem to focus almost all of their fury and righteous indignation exclusively on the OM, leads me to believe that the WW has painted her AP like he's Count Dracula to her husband's Van Helsing. Which is when we start hearing accusations of KISA(knight in shining armor) syndrome leveled at the still reeling BH.

 

This notion of 'the fog' that many subscribe to is fitting with the vampire allegory. Many men speak as though they believe their wife was almost hypnotized by the OM and was somehow acting against her own free will. My point is not so much to argue against this belief as much as it is to point out the logical implications that accepting this notion brings with it.

 

I think you have to be careful to give much weight to the testimony of a WS at this stage of an affair, the "I'll say anything to anyone to save/defend/justify myself" point when the wheels start to come off. As the sh*t start to hit the fan, history is rewritten, lies are told and both the AP and BS are apt to be gamed. Under stress, it's usually the worst of human nature that emerges.

 

Vampires, trolls, knights and damsels are just different names for the lies told during infidelity. And just as a WS became deceptive during during the affair, they have to gradually become truthful - and the BS realistic - during successful recovery. Since it's a process, much of what you've described are stops along the way. Some get there, some don't...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Grumpybutfun]

No one can hold cards in what they don't invest in.

G

[oldshirt]

No one can hold cards in what they don't invest in.

G

 

 

 

But I think his point is that if the OM did invest, he'd walk away with the entire deck.

[sambolini]

Not all of the cards.

 

When I caught my ex wife cheating, that was it. I was done. I said "She can have him" and exited stage left.

 

XWW has never really accepted that I did that. I'm never mean or rude to her. I don't start arguments or disrupt her life in any way. She is simply insignificant to me.

 

And it bothers her four years later.

 

See, my life is awesome. I make way more money. I got in better shape. I have a much better relationship with my daughter. I have great friends and a wonderful family.

 

BS's, especially BH's, are generally underestimated.

[oldshirt]

 

 

The ego topic fascinates me because from reading the few OM accounts I've been able to find they overwhelmingly admit it's all about boosting their ego, getting a rush of power from 'taking' another man's wife.

 

 

 

On this note, I have to disagree....or at least in my experience that was not the case.

 

 

I think you are giving the OM too much credit here. It's not that complex or that indepth.

 

 

For me it was not about boosting ego and there was definitely no 'rush of power." It was quite simply easier for me to get married FBs/FWBs than it was single.

 

 

Single women had a lot more competition and single women had a lot more demands and expectations.

 

 

Married women were simply easier and less effort and asked a whole lot less out of me.

 

 

That's the part that's scary. Singe women were always on guard for playa's and guys who were just wanting some NSA fun. Married women sought them out. Every last one of the married women that I was with, made me the initial offer to hook up. I may have made the first 'nudge-nudge-wink-wink' that indicated I was attracted to them and was DTF. But they were the ones that made the offer for the follow-though.

 

 

There was no ego or 'power' involved because there was really no effort on my part. All I did was take the cheese when it was offered.

[Grumpybutfun]

But I think his point is that if the OM did invest, he'd walk away with the entire deck.

 

 

 

I am pointing out he doesn't need to invest...do I need to start acting like everyone is a bunch of idiots and have no idea what I'm saying?

Move on,

G

[minimariah]

Am I wrong about all of this?

 

you're wrong to think that this is the norm.

 

i know quite a few OMs who are better looking, have better status & are desperately in love with the MW (and vice versa) & the MW STILL chose the husband and her family.

 

as a matter of fact - i know one OM who still pins for his MW even though it's been years since she chose the husband. needless to say, he's a Brad Pitt to her Woody Allen husband when it comes to looks, Steve Jobs to her Jessica Simpson husband when it comes to influence and brains... well, you get the point. & she still choose her husband... many times, family & wanting to give your children a stable home trumps EVERYTHING.

 

keep in mind that all of us judge from extremely limited experiences that might seem like some kind of norm to you - but in reality, the percentage of MWs who stay because the OW didn't live up to the expectations is actually really small.

 

at the end of the day - we are exactly where we choose to be.

 

one more thing -- for both sexes, we get more interested in those who we feel are "slipping" away. it's a certain phenomenon - the less interest the other side shows us, the more interested WE are.

Edited November 25, 2015 by minimariah

[Midwestmissy]

My wh went for the ego boost with his employee mow, he's admitted. She always made herself available for work and sex. I think the 4 mos of foreplay preceding the 4 mo sexual affair were a huge boost, that's when he started being viciously emotionally abusive to me. You can't cheat on a great wife in good conscience, so the smear campaign on me began. This is everything he and I have discussed for the last year or so.

 

I think like any other relationship, opposite sex or friendly, you spend time and realize there's a lot that bothers you about him/her, maybe you find some lies, maybe she's really not good at her job at all, but you've been sleeping with her, your company is at risk etc. Sometimes you realize you want to drop everything for this new love and nothing will stop that. People take what they want and do what they want, I couldn't have done anything to make my wh stay if he'd wanted to leave - nothing. Just like I couldn't and can't keep him from wanting another woman - that's all on him and his character.

 

My wh thought he was getting nsa sex on the side, using her, and she was using him at the same time. This was when the game was on and she wanted me to find clues about the affair, she figured I'd be gone. She did want my life, and thought she could walk in and take the life I'd built. She could have my h, if that's what they both wanted, but she wasn't going to take my life. I'd have sympathy for her bh, but he was the om in her first marriage to his brother. So the bar for morals and values is low there. And these are 50 yr olds with 4 kids. Classy stuff.

 

With so many variables, emotions, personalities and lies in the mix, and so many stories of horrific consequences, it's amazing people embark on this crap. But pretty lies are fun to believe I guess. I'm always shocked that ow believe that men can't leave marriages because of nasty bw - they do it all the time - when that's what they really want. Regardless, a lot of folks, families, bank accounts get pretty hurt in the process.

[Spectre]

Agreed, but the FWW's and BH's who are reconciling tend to make the OM's social status(his appearance,finances,sex appeal or lack thereof etc.) as their number one target in their claims that he is in fact the BH's inferior(not his lack of moral character) so it seems to matter to them a great deal if I take their words at face value.

 

I know, but cheaters tend to be stupid selfish people.

 

Now logically I get that they would look silly/hypocritical if they focused on the one thing that actually matters. Namely that the OM is an adulterer, given the fact that the FWW is also guilty and yet the BH is still with her maybe they feel as though that's not something they can criticize the OM for as much so they just go for surface level attacks instead. Having said that, it still seems like a pretty shallow thing to base one's decision for staying in a marriage on.

 

I know and I'd ask you and anyone out there which gender they feel tends to marry for money more often then love.

 

I agree, being the "other" in somebody else's relationship is always a strike against one's personal worth regardless of any good qualities one might have. I also don't approve of this new morality system that says it's just between the married couple and that outsiders have no responsibility to behave in an ethical and honest manner with people who are already in a committed relationship.

 

This is why I shake my head whenever I see a topic about "Err I know someone who is cheating should I tell the person they are cheating on?" the answer is always Y E S. People spout sill crap like "it's not our business" and all that, but nope..whenever a person, even a stranger, is having their life force drained away by a liar and a cheater they deserve to know. I don't care if the person cheating is your mom, your best friend, your daughter, whatever. If these cheaters have not done the right thing and told then someone sure as heck has to do the right thing. Minding your own business is only a valid tactic when the people in question are not going to act like sh*tty human beings. Nobody has the right to cheat, nobody has the right to expect privacy in their cheating ways. It's the same reason I have zero problems with violating a person you are dating's privacy if you suspect something. Privacy is important, not living a lie is far more important.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Spectre

[Horton]

I think you have to be careful to give much weight to the testimony of a WS at this stage of an affair, the "I'll say anything to anyone to save/defend/justify myself" point when the wheels start to come off. As the sh*t start to hit the fan, history is rewritten, lies are told and both the AP and BS are apt to be gamed. Under stress, it's usually the worst of human nature that emerges.

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I can't agree about not giving weight to the words/thoughts of the WS when they're first getting out of the affair. I believe it's just the opposite, when the WS is cornered and their world starts crashing down on them that's when they reveal who they really are IMO, much like when a person has had too much to drink and they're true feelings about those around them start spilling out. The amount of WW's who go from mourning the loss of their OM after being dumped who suddenly(only after being caught) realize their husband/family is what they wanted all along is just too convenient to me.

 

No one can hold cards in what they don't invest in.

G

That's my point, the OM isn't even really invested in the WW and he can still get her in his bed and convince her to sacrifice her husband & children's well being to please the OM. Imagine if the OM actually was invested in the WW and truly desired to "steal" her away. How many WW's would still be around then is the question.

 

Not all of the cards.

 

When I caught my ex wife cheating, that was it. I was done. I said "She can have him" and exited stage left.

 

XWW has never really accepted that I did that. I'm never mean or rude to her. I don't start arguments or disrupt her life in any way. She is simply insignificant to me.

 

And it bothers her four years later.

 

See, my life is awesome. I make way more money. I got in better shape. I have a much better relationship with my daughter. I have great friends and a wonderful family.

 

BS's, especially BH's, are generally underestimated.

 

I congratulate you for reclaiming your life. As far as that bothering her, this actually brings up another interesting point(at least to me.) The amount of WW's and to a lesser extent WH's who only want what they can't have is telling of the emotional maturity of many married cheaters I believe.

 

On this note, I have to disagree....or at least in my experience that was not the case.

 

 

I think you are giving the OM too much credit here. It's not that complex or that indepth.

 

 

For me it was not about boosting ego and there was definitely no 'rush of power." It was quite simply easier for me to get married FBs/FWBs than it was single.

 

 

Single women had a lot more competition and single women had a lot more demands and expectations.

 

 

Married women were simply easier and less effort and asked a whole lot less out of me.

 

 

That's the part that's scary. Singe women were always on guard for playa's and guys who were just wanting some NSA fun. Married women sought them out. Every last one of the married women that I was with, made me the initial offer to hook up. I may have made the first 'nudge-nudge-wink-wink' that indicated I was attracted to them and was DTF. But they were the ones that made the offer for the follow-though.

 

 

There was no ego or 'power' involved because there was really no effort on my part. All I did was take the cheese when it was offered.

 

Well as I said, there's not a whole lot of OM around these parts(& other similar forums) for me to have too much of a pool to gather data from. The majority of OM I have heard from tend to be pretty excited about the fact that he's not just having sex with "a woman" but somebody else's woman. I'm sure that some of them don't care one way or the other though. I suppose at the end of the day it's irrelevant what the OM's motives were, since it's the MW who opens the gates letting the enemy in.

 

you're wrong to think that this is the norm.

 

i know quite a few OMs who are better looking, have better status & are desperately in love with the MW (and vice versa) & the MW STILL chose the husband and her family.

 

as a matter of fact - i know one OM who still pins for his MW even though it's been years since she chose the husband. needless to say, he's a Brad Pitt to her Woody Allen husband when it comes to looks, Steve Jobs to her Jessica Simpson husband when it comes to influence and brains... well, you get the point. & she still choose her husband... many times, family & wanting to give your children a stable home trumps EVERYTHING.

 

Then why did she take her "Brad Pitt" for a test ride if she wanted her "Woody Allen" all along? (There's a Soon-Yi joke in their somewhere.) But seriously I honestly think the last part of the story answers why she stayed, for the sake of her children. My theory is this.. Take the same woman, the same husband and the same OM. Now erase the children from the picture like it's Back to the Future. Where is the WW at? With her "Brad Pitt" almost every single time and even the times she isn't, whose to say that it's not her guilt, her shame or her sense of fairness that's keeping her with her husband instead of desire, passion and love? In some sense the children are like her anchor keeping her floating there next to "Woody".

 

keep in mind that all of us judge from extremely limited experiences that might seem like some kind of norm to you - but in reality, the percentage of MWs who stay because the OW didn't live up to the expectations is actually really small.

 

I don't know if there's really any way to prove either of our views in any kind of mathematical sense since even if that type of data existed whose to say if the FWW is gonna answer honestly about her reasons for staying with her husband? The one place we do have a fairly large pool of data is from marriage forums like this one and I believe the most clear and accurate picture we get is from those WW's whose story begins with her in the peak of her affair and if you follow along what almost always occurs is this.

 

1. WW is having the time of her life, her OM is her "true love" and her BH(sometimes even her own kids) are depicted as road blocks standing in the way of her destiny if their even mentioned at all.

 

2. WW is either dumped by the OM or more often than not she's caught by her husband and then the OM quickly disposes of her since he has no further use for her.

 

3. WW is feeling a plethora of emotions. But what boils to the surface the most at that time when her life is caving in on her is her fury at the OM for "deceiving" her, for "using" her.

 

4. WW now FWW suddenly decides, after her OM has already made the decision for her(by abandoning her) that it was her husband/family that she really wanted all along and the "fog" is to blame for her misplaced priorities.

 

5. BH if he chooses to reconcile, does his damnedest to swallow his pride and pretend like he doesn't know that he's her fall back guy.

 

This happens so often that it feels like watching Groundhog's Day(good movie BTW), where only the slightest details ever actually change.

 

at the end of the day - we are exactly where we choose to be.

 

Unless the OM chose for her. In which case her BH is only "chosen" by default since he's all she has left now that her 1st choice doesn't want her. As I described in my little school lunchroom allegory, even boring old plan B is better than being left with nothing. And then there's the cases(as I talked about previously) where there really isn't much of a choice at all. It's either sticking with the BH or jumping ship with a serial adulterer or a drug addict, or a guy who would throw her down a flight of stairs if she burnt the pot roast. What kind of a choice is that?

 

one more thing -- for both sexes, we get more interested in those who we feel are "slipping" away. it's a certain phenomenon - the less interest the other side shows us, the more interested WE are.

I agree that both sexes do this and it's a very immature way of going through life IMO.

 

My wh went for the ego boost with his employee mow, he's admitted. She always made herself available for work and sex. I think the 4 mos of foreplay preceding the 4 mo sexual affair were a huge boost, that's when he started being viciously emotionally abusive to me. You can't cheat on a great wife in good conscience, so the smear campaign on me began. This is everything he and I have discussed for the last year or so.

 

That's one of the things I find most appalling about many cheaters, they tend to rewrite their whole marriage to anybody who'll listen to their sob stories. I'm always skeptical when a WS goes from saying how great their BS is to suddenly bringing up each and every one of their faults nonstop. They're just trying to alleviate their own guilty conscience IMO.

 

I think like any other relationship, opposite sex or friendly, you spend time and realize there's a lot that bothers you about him/her, maybe you find some lies, maybe she's really not good at her job at all, but you've been sleeping with her, your company is at risk etc. Sometimes you realize you want to drop everything for this new love and nothing will stop that. People take what they want and do what they want, I couldn't have done anything to make my wh stay if he'd wanted to leave - nothing. Just like I couldn't and can't keep him from wanting another woman - that's all on him and his character.

 

My wh thought he was getting nsa sex on the side, using her, and she was using him at the same time. This was when the game was on and she wanted me to find clues about the affair, she figured I'd be gone. She did want my life, and thought she could walk in and take the life I'd built. She could have my h, if that's what they both wanted, but she wasn't going to take my life. I'd have sympathy for her bh, but he was the om in her first marriage to his brother. So the bar for morals and values is low there. And these are 50 yr olds with 4 kids. Classy stuff.

 

I'm sure you must have really appreciated being dragged into all of their Jerry Springer level drama.<sarcasm>

 

With so many variables, emotions, personalities and lies in the mix, and so many stories of horrific consequences, it's amazing people embark on this crap. But pretty lies are fun to believe I guess. I'm always shocked that ow believe that men can't leave marriages because of nasty bw - they do it all the time - when that's what they really want. Regardless, a lot of folks, families, bank accounts get pretty hurt in the process.

 

That seems to be just about every WH's go to excuse. They gotta stay to protect the kids from the BW, or they're being emotionally abused by her and she'll ruin his career and his relationship with the kids if he leaves etc. etc. They're always such martyrs aren't they?

I know, but cheaters tend to be stupid selfish people.

 

You'll get no argument from me on that.

 

I know and I'd ask you and anyone out there which gender they feel tends to marry for money more often then love.

 

This is why I shake my head whenever I see a topic about "Err I know someone who is cheating should I tell the person they are cheating on?" the answer is always Y E S. People spout sill crap like "it's not our business" and all that, but nope..whenever a person, even a stranger, is having their life force drained away by a liar and a cheater they deserve to know. I don't care if the person cheating is your mom, your best friend, your daughter, whatever. If these cheaters have not done the right thing and told then someone sure as heck has to do the right thing. Minding your own business is only a valid tactic when the people in question are not going to act like sh*tty human beings. Nobody has the right to cheat, nobody has the right to expect privacy in their cheating ways. It's the same reason I have zero problems with violating a person you are dating's privacy if you suspect something. Privacy is important, not living a lie is far more important.

 

Agreed again about the exposure, but I was really more thinking about the idea that's so frequently thrown around where people say that the OM/OW owes the BS nothing since they weren't married to them. I do think that the WS is always the greater villain simply for the fact that they're both committing adultery and betraying their own vows, but I still believe that we all owe it to each other to never knowingly get involved with somebody whose already "taken". No man is an island and all that jazz.

[beach]

The only cards he holds are the ones that were capable of tempting a married woman enough to get her to believe that betraying her spouse would be a good idea.

 

Any man (or woman) in my opinion, capable of doing that is left with an empty hand.

 

He's taking a risk but most like that a woman is still married and isn't capable of making demands on a single guy.

[minimariah]

Then why did she take her "Brad Pitt" for a test ride if she wanted her "Woody Allen" all along?

 

you're basically asking why do folks have an affair - because AT THAT POINT, it's what they want and need. no, she didn't want her Woody Allen ALL ALONG - she had her Brad Pitt when she wanted him. when she had to choose - she made her choice and it wasn't the Brad Pitt.

 

staying for the children - women RARELY stay for the children. why? because they usually get the children during the custody battle. besides - it's never staying for the children, you stay for a family life. that's something the other man cannot provide for you, even if he does offer - your current happiness coming from your current family life. and that includes a healthy romantic life with your partner, too.

 

Take the same woman, the same husband and the same OM. Now erase the children from the picture like it's Back to the Future. Where is the WW at? With her "Brad Pitt" almost every single time and even the times she isn't, whose to say that it's not her guilt, her shame or her sense of fairness that's keeping her with her husband instead of desire, passion and love?

 

you're trying to make this into some kind "women only" thing - it's the same with both men and women. when someone's guilt, shame and sense of fairness trumps the love they feel for their other person - then that love wasn't that powerful to begin with, right?

 

those questions are the same for literally every affair partner - they aren't exclusive to women. you can ask that married men, too. being unsure of why did WW stay with you, when you're a BS - is one of the many tests you pass while trying to recover a marriage. but a WW resisting and being focused on the marriage in spite of that other man continuing to pursue her and offering her the world and in spite of all those negative feelings coming from the BS... speaks volumes. it would be much easier to just call it a day and go with the other man. the fact that a WS chooses the hard road is actually the first sign that tells you something about their true dedication.

 

The one place we do have a fairly large pool of data is from marriage forums like this one and I believe the most clear and accurate picture we get is from those WW's whose story begins with her in the peak of her affair and if you follow along what almost always occurs is this.

 

not at all. this forum offers extremely limited and often a WRONG picture when it comes to affairs - for example... if you were to follow this forum, you'd think that WS almost NEVER leaves for the OW/OM. that's miles far from the truth.

 

that's the biggest trap with an online forum like this - you think you see a pattern and you think it's some kind of norm based on limited amount of stories that repeat themselves in forums like these. i can assure you that i see examples on weekly basis (from women who aren't even married or have children) that completely crashes your theory about WW staying because the OM didn't want them, made an offer or wasn't better.

 

so from my real life experience - your theory is very wrong.

Edited November 26, 2015 by minimariah

[Got it]

I can't say my experience was this black and white. Both my ex and my AP were parable in looks I think though some may think one was better looking than the other. AP made more money but less take home than ex husband. I made more and took home more than both. Comparisons could go on.

 

Ultimately I left for me, not for either man and having on man or the other was not a determination on what I was going to do. Divorcing was a decision independent of the affair and a decision, when I was and wasn't with my AP, didn't vary or change.

 

Your premise is based on the idea that the woman moving on or not is only determined by who is her (desired) safety net.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

The other man holds all the cards

 

 

 

The point you're trying to make is moot, for in all situations the husband had all of the cards and was careless with, or disinterested in them.

 

 

Your point is akin to observing, at the poker table, "the champion has all of the chips".

[Popsicle]

Well, the good news is, that the BH is probably settling in certain ways for the WW, as well, so both are even. No one's perfect, you know?

[Horton]

The only cards he holds are the ones that were capable of tempting a married woman enough to get her to believe that betraying her spouse would be a good idea.

 

I respectfully disagree with you, the OM can also hold the BH's future(if the BH wishes to reconcile) as well as the BH's children's future in the palm of his hand. I believe in most cases of female adultery the only reason a reconciliation can happen at all is due to the OM being deemed too flaky by the WW to be a permanent replacement or even more likely the OM simply didn't want a "real" relationship with her in the first place.

 

Any man (or woman) in my opinion, capable of doing that is left with an empty hand.

 

Any man or woman doing that is morally bankrupt(IMO) but I wouldn't say they have an empty hand, at least not in the sense of holding a position of power/influence over the lives of other people.

 

He's taking a risk but most like that a woman is still married and isn't capable of making demands on a single guy.

 

Absolutely, but so many WW's(as well as many single OW) actually believe they will be able to run away with the OM/MM. Which is just ridiculous on their part, particularly on the part of the WW's. Any OM who actually possesses those qualities that would lead a WW to want to run away with him is never gonna do so due to his belief that he can do better than her. In short, what OM who has the appearance,finances,charm etc. to convince MW to sleep with him is gonna give that lifestyle up to play step dad to kids who hate him, tolerate dealing with a (understandably)vengeful BH and other drama just to shack up with a middle aged adulteress? In the OM's eyes the WW is beneath him, he has what he considers a great life, he's not gonna throw that away to be her KISA.

 

you're basically asking why do folks have an affair - because AT THAT POINT, it's what they want and need. no, she didn't want her Woody Allen ALL ALONG - she had her Brad Pitt when she wanted him. when she had to choose - she made her choice and it wasn't the Brad Pitt.

 

But that's just it, she didn't want "Woody Allen" ever, she always wanted "Brad Pitt", she married "Woody" cause he seemed like the safe option to start a family with. She more than likely has always fantasized about her "perfect" OM coming along someday and saving her from the boring humdrum of living with a man she settled for.

staying for the children - women RARELY stay for the children. why? because they usually get the children during the custody battle. besides - it's never staying for the children, you stay for a family life. that's something the other man cannot provide for you, even if he does offer - your current happiness coming from your current family life. and that includes a healthy romantic life with your partner, too.

 

Staying for the children, staying for a family life, same difference. Either way if the kids had never been born she's not gonna stay with a man she deemed "inferior" enough to cheat on in the first place unless she either.

 

A. Has no choice since the OM doesn't want her for a mate.

B. The OM turned out to not be as great as he presented himself to be.

C. She felt guilty breaking her "nice guy" husband's heart. Which I suppose is commendable that she has a conscience, but it's not much of a romantic love story IMO.

As far as her having a healthy romantic life with her husband after experiencing an exciting whirlwind love affair with her OM I would be highly suspicious about that claim. I couldn't prove that she's full of it in the same way one could in mathematics or even in a court room I suppose, but I simply don't believe that any woman who would cheat on a supposedly "beta male" with what many would consider an "alpha male" isn't gonna be doing a ton of daydreaming during their bed time activities. BTW I don't usually go with the whole "alpha fu*ks/beta bucks" argument, but this sounds like the perfect description of that to me.

 

you're trying to make this into some kind "women only" thing - it's the same with both men and women. when someone's guilt, shame and sense of fairness trumps the love they feel for their other person - then that love wasn't that powerful to begin with, right?

 

I don't think that's usually the case. Some people will secretly carry a torch for "the one that got away" sometimes their entire life. And they won't always take the opportunity to be with that person if their sense of right and wrong or even just their fear of societal judgment is strong enough. Some people will live their entire life doing what they believe is the morally right thing or just doing what the society they live in deems to be acceptable behavior. My point is that tons of people place their sense of duty/obligation over their romantic feelings.

those questions are the same for literally every affair partner - they aren't exclusive to women. you can ask that married men, too. being unsure of why did WW stay with you, when you're a BS - is one of the many tests you pass while trying to recover a marriage. but a WW resisting and being focused on the marriage in spite of that other man continuing to pursue her and offering her the world and in spite of all those negative feelings coming from the BS... speaks volumes. it would be much easier to just call it a day and go with the other man. the fact that a WS chooses the hard road is actually the first sign that tells you something about their true dedication.

 

I don't believe they are exclusive to female cheaters but I do believe they are significantly less relevant to male cheaters. Most men who cheat on their wives have no real intention of running off with their OW, the opposite is true of most women who cheat. Men generally cheat to have "more"(more sex, more ego boosts etc.)women generally cheat hoping to find a "better" deal. Men are window shopping, women are test driving to see if they could safely trade in the old model for the new one. There are exceptions to the rule, sometimes a woman is just a nympho and has several ONS & sometimes a man will divorce his loving wife of 3 decades for a 20 year old airhead, but these are not the norm I believe.

 

not at all. this forum offers extremely limited and often a WRONG picture when it comes to affairs - for example... if you were to follow this forum, you'd think that WS almost NEVER leaves for the OW/OM. that's miles far from the truth.

 

I don't agree with you on that. From what I know(not just from this site but others as well and people in my life) I believe that most couples at least attempt to reconcile and even those who don't make it, it's pretty rare that they continue the relationship with the AP and when they do the relationship usually peters out after a relatively short amount of time.

 

that's the biggest trap with an online forum like this - you think you see a pattern and you think it's some kind of norm based on limited amount of stories that repeat themselves in forums like these. i can assure you that i see examples on weekly basis (from women who aren't even married or have children) that completely crashes your theory about WW staying because the OM didn't want them, made an offer or wasn't better.

 

so from my real life experience - your theory is very wrong.

 

My life experience tells me the exact opposite.

 

I can't say my experience was this black and white. Both my ex and my AP were parable in looks I think though some may think one was better looking than the other. AP made more money but less take home than ex husband. I made more and took home more than both. Comparisons could go on.

 

Ultimately I left for me, not for either man and having on man or the other was not a determination on what I was going to do. Divorcing was a decision independent of the affair and a decision, when I was and wasn't with my AP, didn't vary or change.

 

Then I don't think your situation is what I'm talking about since you sound like you were gonna divorce your husband regardless of whether there was an OM in the picture or not, unless I'm misunderstanding you.

 

Your premise is based on the idea that the woman moving on or not is only determined by who is her (desired) safety net.

 

That't not all of it, but it's a part of what I'm saying. Most married women(especially those with kids) are not completely without prudence. It's pretty rare that she's gonna leave a stable home with a decent husband/father/provider for her kids to be with a guy that's not even able to take care of himself let alone play step daddy to her offspring. I'm not saying it never happens(there are some crazy ass people out there) but it's not very common.

 

So if the OM is a "bum" per se, or if he was just using her for sex then what else is she gonna do? She didn't just want a divorce(to be single) she wanted another man. I forget who I heard this analogy from(I think it was a poster on here) so I'll have to paraphrase, but WW's are sort of like monkeys swinging from tree to tree, they're not gonna let go of the vine that they're already holding until they're certain they've got a firm grip on the next one and they want to be sure that when they let go of the first one they're not gonna find themselves in free fall due to grabbing a "faulty vine". They're very analytical/methodical like that. Whereas WH's are more like pigs at the trough, just gorging themselves on whatever happens to be lying in there without a care in the world.(the pig analogy was mine btw.)

 

 

The point you're trying to make is moot, for in all situations the husband had all of the cards and was careless with, or disinterested in them.

 

 

Your point is akin to observing, at the poker table, "the champion has all of the chips".

 

I can't agree with that position for the simple fact that I believe that women are free moral agents, they're capable of "falling from grace" just like men are and they don't need a big bad man to "make" them do it either. Wives don't only cheat on "bad" husbands, I know from people in my own life that this is simply not always the case.

 

Well, the good news is, that the BH is probably settling in certain ways for the WW, as well, so both are even. No one's perfect, you know?

 

Oh I'm sure many BH's who reconcile are well aware that they're settling, but I don't see them as being even steven and I'd bet most of the BH's would agree that they're living with an injustice. I think that's what leads some to justify to themselves having a RA.(which I think is a terrible idea btw.)

 

Nobody's perfect and I really don't expect much from people. I don't get upset when they don't thank me for doing some small act of common courtesy, or when somebody in customer service is rude to me I just let it slide cause I know dealing with people all day is a f'n nightmare cause most people are pretty awful to put it bluntly, but somebody that uses their own spouse as their backup plan in case their AP turns out to be a "dud" is really taking human awfulness to a level that ought to be deemed unacceptable in society IMO.

[Popsicle]

Oh I'm sure many BH's who reconcile are well aware that they're settling, but I don't see them as being even steven and I'd bet most of the BH's would agree that they're living with an injustice. I think that's what leads some to justify to themselves having a RA.(which I think is a terrible idea btw.)

 

Nobody's perfect and I really don't expect much from people. I don't get upset when they don't thank me for doing some small act of common courtesy, or when somebody in customer service is rude to me I just let it slide cause I know dealing with people all day is a f'n nightmare cause most people are pretty awful to put it bluntly, but somebody that uses their own spouse as their backup plan in case their AP turns out to be a "dud" is really taking human awfulness to a level that ought to be deemed unacceptable in society IMO.

 

Then divorce your WS, move on and don't get back with them.