Is it normal to be disconnected from your spouse in a long term marriage?

[jwhale]

I've been married to my husband, who was my college sweetheart, for almost 15 yrs and we have 4 kids under the age of 10. My husband and I met and started dating just after I had ended a 5+ yr relationship with my first love due to tragic, unforeseen circumstances--looking back, probably not the greatest timing to enter a new relationship.

 

I was attracted to my now husband because he was quiet, kind, and seemed like he'd someday be a good father and provider. We were from similar educational, ethnic and religious backgrounds as well. Although I was never head over heels in love with him I felt in my heart that he'd be a good life partner and I did love him a lot when we got married.

 

My husband followed me around from city to city as I embarked on a career pathway that required 10 yrs of training after college. We got married when we were 23. For the first 5 years we were married I was working a ton and he traveled a ton for work, so we barely saw each other…when we did it was usually on a Fri or Sat night and we'd share a bottle of wine and then I'd fall asleep on the couch during a rented movie. Our s*x life was ok at this point, especially if I had wine beforehand. We did go through two rounds of marriage counseling during the first few years, one because of his high usage of internet porn, and another when he was arrested for drunk driving. I considered leaving the marriage at this point, when I was about 27, but I didn't because I felt that I'd never be able to live with myself if I broke my marriage vows, my parents' marriage had ended in divorce, and I did not want to hurt him. I also worried that I'd never find anyone who would love me as much as he did--my self-confidence was not too good at this point in my life. I was worried that I'd regret leaving him.

 

We had our first child when we were 28 and then had 3 more kids in close succession. My husband decided to leave to work force to be a stay at home dad when our oldest was one, 9 yrs ago. This was supposed to be a temporary, arrangement, maybe a year or two, but whenever we talked about the timing of him going back to work he declined, saying that he loved being home with the kids. I worked a lot of extra shifts to make ends meet for my family during this point in time. I would come home after working all night, utterly exhausted, and he would hand me the kids and leave for the day so that he could have his free time. Then he'd be upset if I didn't want to be intimate at night, after being up for 36 hours straight!!!

 

By the time we were 32 I was finished with my training and decided that I would continue to be the breadwinner as my earning potential was so much higher than his. I encouraged him to go back to work, at least part-time, but he always said that the kids needed him at home more. Despite the kids starting to enter school, he stopped cleaning (I had to hire a housekeeper) and he stopped doing yard work (so I hired a landscaper), and he never got involved at the kids' schools. I did make him pack the kids' lunches, do the laundry, and split on making dinner and helping with homework. He also took care of our finances and did the grocery shopping, most of the time. He talked a lot about how I did not understand how hard he worked at home.

 

Our s*x life continued to decline and we started to go months and months between physical intimacy. Our evenings together, when I wasn't working, started to consist of watching TV after the kids were in bed. I would try to start conversations but they were always one-sided and he'd say he needed his peace and quiet once the kids were asleep after taking care of them all day (bear in mind that 3 of the 4 were at school all day at this point). I have always hated watching TV so I stopped trying to pretend to be interested, and started either reading a book, working out, running, volunteering, or going out with friends or to book club during the evenings after our kids were asleep. My husband watches at least 3 hours of TV every night.

 

About a year ago I noticed that I finally didn't care anymore, that I was no longer getting upset about my marriage, and tried to accept my mediocre marriage, so that I could stick it out for the sake of the kids.

 

I felt guilty, like there must be something wrong with me, for feeling so lonely while being married. I also did increase our s*x frequency last year, to try to be a good wife, but I still had no attraction to him. I'd have to pretend I was with other people to get aroused.

 

Last fall I went through a breast cancer scare and my husband was not supportive. He kept telling me that I would be fine and that we'd get through it. He did not accompany me to my testing (my friend did), and then when we found out I was cancer free he announced that he was happy, because he'd been planning a weekend away with his friends to watch a football game (he would not have been able to go if I had cancer).

 

Last fall I was also profiled in a magazine (a two page article with a photo of our family) for some of my work accomplishments and he didn't even want to read it, I had to force him to look at it, he read the article, and said "cool" and went back to watching TV. This had been one of the highlights of my entire career. I thought his reaction was really strange.

 

Last December I told him that I was thinking about wanting to get divorced and he was totally shocked…he said he had no idea that I was unhappy and did not understand why. We started marriage counseling at this time and I was also diagnosed with depression/burn out and started on an anti-depressant at this time. I wanted to make sure that my marital unhappiness was not due to being depressed and not getting the proper treatment.

 

Despite 12 weeks of marriage counseling I felt more and more disconnected from him than ever. There'd be brief upticks in communication, times when I'd actually be able to talk to him and he'd respond to me and talk back, but these were few and far between. My desire for him never returned and I actually told him that I'd understand if he wanted to go outside of our marriage for s*x last spring as I knew that I was unable to give him what he needed from this standpoint. He was appalled that I suggested this.

 

At the same time, throughout all of this, we did, and continue to do, a great job running a household together--i.e. getting kids to where they need to go, splitting up errands, making decisions on major purchases, etc. We dropped the marriage counseling because it was expensive and we felt like things between us got worse instead of better, our last session was in the spring. Co-parenting and running a household together seem to be our greatest strength.

 

We also knew 18 months ago that I'd be starting a new job that would enable me to be home with the kids more, but would also entail a huge pay cut. My husband promised that he'd go back to work to make up for my loss of income. This still hasn't happened yet--he claims he's been looking for work but just put together his CV a few weeks ago.

 

So, that's basically where we are now. My kids are happy an healthy, there is no open conflict, abuse, substance abuse, etc. I am just married to a man who I feel no emotional connection to, have a difficult time talking with, and who I have no physical attraction to. And who refuses to work. But, who is a great dad and loves our kids very much and who I do still have love for to some degree (i.e. if we was diagnosed with a sickness I would take care of him and be there for him).

 

Have other people been able to get through marriages "lows" like this and see improvement? We have tried "date nights," read marriage books together, the counseling that I discussed, etc. I am also pretty sure that my depression is under control because I feel joy when i am with my kids, at work, with friends and family, etc., just not with my husband and marriage. I honestly don't think I've ever felt joy with him. But, I made a vow to be with him forever, back when we were 23.

 

Is this just a "normal" place to be in after being married for almost 15 years? Do I have unrealistic expectations to want to be connected with my husband on multiple levels? Is it possible for our marriage to get better, or should I just be happy that it's not horrible like my parents' was? I waver between wanting out, as I know I would be able to financially support myself, vs. wanting to stick it out for the sake of the kids (and also because I don't want to hurt my husband, who is totally happy and satisfied with our marriage and I don't believe has done anything intentionally wrong).

 

Thank you for reading. It's my first post and it was helpful to be able to get it all out….any feedback would be much appreciated.

[Mr. Lucky]

Is this just a "normal" place to be in after being married for almost 15 years? Do I have unrealistic expectations to want to be connected with my husband on multiple levels?

 

No and no.

 

My kids are happy an healthy, there is no open conflict, abuse, substance abuse, etc.

 

Not exposing your kids to a bad marriage isn't the same thing as modeling the healthy behavior of a good one. I guarantee they're aware of and affected by the underlying tension and unhappiness between the two of you. Don't fool yourself.

 

Your husband may need the wake-up call of separation to take your concerns seriously. You have some difficult decisions to make...

 

Mr. Lucky

[jwhale]

Thanks for reading and responding Mr. Lucky.

 

I have tried to examine my marriage from every possible angle and have also discussed it with several family members and friends--there seems to be a 50:50 split between those who cannot believe I am considering divorcing someone who is such a nice man and good father and those who cannot believe that I have remained in the marriage for this long.

 

The Joseph Campbell quote is one of my favorites as well. Thank you.

[Mr. Lucky]

I have tried to examine my marriage from every possible angle and have also discussed it with several family members and friends--there seems to be a 50:50 split between those who cannot believe I am considering divorcing someone who is such a nice man and good father and those who cannot believe that I have remained in the marriage for this long.

 

Speaking from personal experience, seeing a relationship from the outside and living it are two different things. Extreme example, but I'm sure many friends and family thought Jared Fogle to be a great husband and father.

 

Regardless, what does the perceptions of others matter if the marriage doesn't work for you ??? Your husband is going to have to accept that, if he claims you're important to him, he'll have to take you and your concerns seriously. Can't have it both ways...

 

Mr. Lucky

[oldshirt]

You have no respect or admiration for your husband because he is a mediocre wife and isn't even on the charts as far as being a head of the household or leader in the family. He's a slacker at best if not an actual hack.

 

You have enabled his backsliding however as it benefited you to have the live in babysitter. By keeping him around and continuing to have sex with him even though you had no respect or desire for him he was able to etch out a comfortable life with you even though you were very dissatisfied.

 

To use an analogy, You basically continued to feed a stray cat so it continued to live under your porch and you allowed it to stay because it kept away mice.

 

I have to ask - have you had an affair yet or came close to one yet?

 

Even if you haven't, it's just a matter of time before a more ambiguous and motivated man comes along that catches your eye and heart. This has the potential to end very badly unless you take some pretty drastic action. You are probably going to have to blow something up to illicit any real change.

 

I agree with the above poster that said you will probably have to at least separate before either of you will get the wake up call to make any real changes in your dynamics.

 

Realistically, you may need to divorce and start dating other men openly.

 

What's taking place here is you are both going against nature.

I know this sounds terribly sexist but women instinctively want men to be the head of the household, to make the long range plans and to execute them and to be the ones that make the big decisions and do the heavy lifting and do battle against the dragons.

 

Now it is a fact of life that many women have achieved higher educations and out earn their husbands. But that basic instinct doesn't really care about the actual dollar sign on the bottom of the spreadsheet. It is more about is he getting up every day, putting on the pants and going out slaying dragons and bringing home the meat and making the strategic plans for the betterment of the home and family. Your heart and loins care more that he shows strong and capable leadership more than the actual dollar sign on his paycheck.

 

The problem here is he is failing at both.

 

He has abdicated his role as head of your family and has become perfectly comfortable being a slacker babysitter who barely follows your instruction sheet when you leave for work in the morning.

 

For you to become "connected" with him, he is going to have to completely change his character and his being.

 

He is probably not going to be able to do that unless you show him just how serious you are and that will probably mean at least a legal separation if not an actual divorce and it may even take you becoming involved with another man to jolt him back into reality.

 

There is no easy fix here because this is a dynamic that has been developed and reinforced for over 15 years.

 

It may be easier to just divorce and move on if you want a more on the ball man and a more passionate relationship with someone you respect and admire.

Edited August 24, 2015 by oldshirt

[jwhale]

Thank you oldshirt for your comments and insights. You were pretty much on target with your evaluation of many aspects of my marriage. I know that I have been an enabler in many ways, but I have done it to try to hold everything together for the sake of my kids.

 

I have not had an affair but the thought has gone through my mind more than once over the last year and a half. Especially during the times that I have felt the most lonely. I have actually told my husband my fears that if things do not change between us that I fear that I could be vulnerable to one on more than one occasion. And not as a threat but because it's been a real fear of mine.

 

My husband and I went out to dinner tonight, without the kids, and we talked about separating and the possibility of a divorce, so at least he knows where my mind is with things at the current time. I guess that after a year and a half of unhappiness that we need to start to have these difficult discussions again, and that just sitting back and waiting is going to help no one.

 

I really appreciate your input. It's agonizing to be in the position of contemplating a separation and divorce...

[oldshirt]

Thank you oldshirt for your comments and insights. You were pretty much on target with your evaluation of many aspects of my marriage. I know that I have been an enabler in many ways, but I have done it to try to hold everything together for the sake of my kids.

 

I have not had an affair but the thought has gone through my mind more than once over the last year and a half. Especially during the times that I have felt the most lonely. I have actually told my husband my fears that if things do not change between us that I fear that I could be vulnerable to one on more than one occasion. And not as a threat but because it's been a real fear of mine.

 

My husband and I went out to dinner tonight, without the kids, and we talked about separating and the possibility of a divorce, so at least he knows where my mind is with things at the current time. I guess that after a year and a half of unhappiness that we need to start to have these difficult discussions again, and that just sitting back and waiting is going to help no one.

 

I really appreciate your input. It's agonizing to be in the position of contemplating a separation and divorce...

 

 

The problem is discussions and threats etc are probably not going to have any lasting effect or cause any real change. This has been an ongoing dynamic for most if not all of your marriage. Talk is cheap. you have had discussions before. How well have they worked???

 

 

You are probably going to have to blow something up.

 

 

The thing is, he knows you have a deeply ingrained level of commitment and a deep belief in remaining married against all odds. It is that deeply held belief against divorce that is working against you here. He knows you aren't really ready to leave yet and you keep having sex with him even though you aren't attracted to him or desire him so he has no motivation or desire to change.

 

 

He likely won't actually make any serious effort to change his behavior until you are out of the house and seeing other men.

 

 

....and even then, even if he does make a serious turnaround, at some point you will have a deep resentment that you had to go to such lengths to make him see how serious you were.

 

 

This is a very serious situation.

[Grumpybutfun]

Your husband contributes nothing...you have a roommate. Time to move on. I hold down a fifty hour week, do the lawn/ranch work and train for MMA and Iron Man while training horses, romancing my wife and all financials and any cleaning we need to do so I can have more time with my wife. I'm also Poppy to a grandchild my wife and I keep every other week so my daughter and her husband can travel for their jobs. Your husband is a lazy ass.

Good luck, and I hope you find someone more compatible, after the divorce,

Grumps

[Fireflynights]

Jwhale...Your situation sounds very similar to mine. We just hit 15 years of marriage, but at least the last two have been a real struggle. I think sometimes it might be best to suck it up and continue for my kids, and then I know my oldest can see this is not a happy marriage and I would hate for her to make the same choice for her life. I know I can support myself and my kids, but I worry about having to support him too, separately and for how long.

Oldshirt has a good point. We are not asking our husbands to match our income, just be our equal partners. That is not asking too much.

[Vercetti]

Does not seem you were that connected at the start when it was good. You never spoke of how great he looked or butterflies..but stable and good with kids. You seem to be different people on different paths. If all these life accomplishments fail to bring joy, then what would.

 

Fact you wrote so much reminds me where I was a few years ago. Relationships end, future plans and life will be different then the ideas in your head.

 

I'm sorry you seem to be at that point. Just,well...

[jwhale]

Thank you Grumps, Firefly, and Vercetti for taking the time to read and comment. You are all very helpful and I hope to be able to do a lot more reading on their site as time permits.

 

There were never butterflies on my side, but there definitely were on my husband's side. He still claims to be very attracted to me and very much in love with me. I truly thought that we had enough mutual respect, love, and compatibility to be able to stay married for the long haul back when we decided to get married when we were 22. I also grew up witnessing a lot of domestic violence, so I was also attracted to a life with my husband because he was non-violent and calm and I always felt safe around him--I knew he would never abuse me the way that my dad did to my mom.

 

Firefly, I think my oldest daughter is starting to pick up on the tension too. And like you, although I know that I can support myself and my kids, I am going to be stuck paying alimony too which makes me so sick as he is able body and should have started working ages ago. And I am so scared that he may try to get custody of our kids since he has been the primary caregiver for all of these years. As I wrote this I realize that I should probably consult with a divorce attorney ASAP....also, he truly does believe that he has been an equal partner. Whenever I've brought up that I think he is lazy, doesn't do enough etc. he says that I just resent him because he's been home with the kids while I've had to work.

 

Grumpy, It's refreshing to hear your experience. It sounds like your wife and you have a great partnership.

 

Thanks all.

[oldshirt]

Thank you Grumps, Firefly, and Vercetti for taking the time to read and comment. You are all very helpful and I hope to be able to do a lot more reading on their site as time permits.

 

There were never butterflies on my side, but there definitely were on my husband's side. He still claims to be very attracted to me and very much in love with me. I truly thought that we had enough mutual respect, love, and compatibility to be able to stay married for the long haul back when we decided to get married when we were 22. I also grew up witnessing a lot of domestic violence, so I was also attracted to a life with my husband because he was non-violent and calm and I always felt safe around him--I knew he would never abuse me the way that my dad did to my mom.

 

Firefly, I think my oldest daughter is starting to pick up on the tension too. And like you, although I know that I can support myself and my kids, I am going to be stuck paying alimony too which makes me so sick as he is able body and should have started working ages ago. And I am so scared that he may try to get custody of our kids since he has been the primary caregiver for all of these years. As I wrote this I realize that I should probably consult with a divorce attorney ASAP....also, he truly does believe that he has been an equal partner. Whenever I've brought up that I think he is lazy, doesn't do enough etc. he says that I just resent him because he's been home with the kids while I've had to work.

 

Grumpy, It's refreshing to hear your experience. It sounds like your wife and you have a great partnership.

 

Thanks all.

 

If you are giving serious thought to leaving then it is critical that you consult an attorney and fight out what your legal rights, entitlements and responsibilities are. You will need to get a very realistic outlook on what a divorce will look like for you as well as an outlook to what your post divorce life will look like.

 

 

The fact that he has historically been the primary caregiver while you have been the breadwinner may weigh heavily in a divorce. The concern that he may be given primary custody and that you will have to pay him spousal support is a very realistic concern.

 

 

You need to be sitting down and going through all of this stuff with an attorney. Just because you meet with an attorney does not automatically mean that you have to file or move forward with a divorce at this time, but it is very important to get real answers to what a divorce will actually entail for you.

[blackcat777]

I wasted four years living with a man who refused to work, and could barely manage to wash a few dishes while I ran myself into the ground for fourteen hour days. We were never married, never had kids, but the difficulty of untangling a common law situation made me feel like it was a divorce, and I can't imagine adding the emotional investment of children into the equation.

 

Our sex life was terrible. I thought something was physically wrong with me for not being able to get aroused.

 

When I finally left (actually, I didn't leave; I was in a car accident, injured, unable to work, and had to move back in with family since this guy STILL refused to work post-accident!!!), what I felt was the deepest anger... at myself, for allowing myself to remain in such an unfulfilling situation for so long.

 

I had all kinds of issues with giving and receiving and money and all sorts of things because of staying in that kind of relationship. I sincerely believed I would never have an orgasm again, I felt so jaded and that love was something delusional for young people... It left me in a dark, dark place and I didn't fully realize how deeply in denial I had been since life was "comfortable," until I was out.

 

And let me tell you: when I least expected it, the most amazing man fell from the sky and into my life. I have red hot passion with a motivated man who is so clever, so determined, if we entered the apocalypse, he'd still find a way to get food on the table. He supports me emotionally like no man has ever before. He's the most incredible blessing.

 

I never would have met him if I didn't leave.

 

There is much wisdom on this site about standing up for your boundaries and demanding how you deserve to be treated--only you can determine how you deserve to be treated.

 

If I hadn't had my accident, god only knows, I still might be there, in that dark place. It ate away at my soul. You do deserve happiness.

[Mr. Lucky]

And I am so scared that he may try to get custody of our kids since he has been the primary caregiver for all of these years.

 

You might look up some of the threads started by "jakrbbt" in the Separation and Divorce forum. Very similar situation to yours and an interesting journey with many parallels.

 

To intrude a bit of practicality into the emotions of your situation - wouldn't you want your husband to have at least joint custody ??? You'd still be working and his continued care would be least disruptive to your kids, who are "happy and healthy" under his watch.

 

Complicated situation with many moving parts. You'll want to think it through...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Fireflynights]

I have the same exact fear as you...since my H has been home with our kids the last 1.5 years I worry they could give him physical custody. I am fine with joint custody, I know he loves them and they love him, but I would want them M-F. I took my current job to be home in the afternoons to help my daughter with homework (and now my son) and make them dinner...I know my H is not going to suddenly take over those (he barely does anything as it is).

I have been given the same advice, to contact a lawyer, and even have the number of one recommended by a co-worker...but just need to make the decision to pick up that phone. I am not sure if its fear of hearing things I don't want to about how it could go or just making the first step towards ending the last 18 years of my life...

I hope we are both able to do what we know we need to.

[TX-SC]

After 20 years of marriage, my wife and I are closer than we have ever been. We do have some intimacy issues, which we are working on, but we genuinely love each other and care about each other. We talk about our issues and work them out to the best of our ability.

[jwhale]

Oldshirt--I appreciate your advice and am planning on talking to an attorney next week. From the research that I've done we live in no-fault state and the norm is for there to be joint custody, which is what I would hope for (this answers Mr. Lucky' question too). I am also setting up a back acct in my name, getting a P.O. Box applying for a credit card that will only be in my name next week as well.

 

Blackcat--Thank you for sharing your story. My friend had a similar experience when she got divorced a few years ago and she is in a new, totally different relationship with mutual respect and a true connection. I admit that I have been envious of her new life but at the same time am so happy for her. It took her years to finally pull the plug on her marriage because she had 3 young children with her ex-husband.

 

Mr. Lucky--I will check out the threads that you suggested over on the separation and divorce forum...I'm planning on moving over there anyway.

 

Firefly--I hate that you are in the same situation as me, but I hope that maybe we can keep up with each other and share info on here from time to time. I will post about my meeting with the divorce lawyer next week.

[jwhale]

TX--Thanks for sharing your experience and helping me to see that the dynamic between my husband and me is not normal. You are blessed to have such a strong union with your wife.

[Morro72]

15 years is just getting started. Looking back on it I'd say mine started to feel "long-term" sometime after 30. Well, maybe 25.

 

To me the biggest red flag in your story is your husband's astonishing lack of support during your health scare. Life throws a lot of stuff at you and whether it's you, him, or God forbid your kids, if this is how he reacts then you are going to have an extremely hard time coping. Helping each other deal with crises is one of the main reasons to get and stay married, and the one thing any couple should plan on is that there will be plenty of crises. If I was AWOL during something like this, or if my wife was, I wouldn't expect the marriage to survive.

 

Not being able to even acknowledge, much less take pleasure in, your professional success is another huge red flag.

 

Others haven't commented on it so I'd like to point out what a good thing you did to get your depression treated before turning to your marriage issues. You know this but it's worth highlighting since a lot of couples try to deal with both at the same time, or, worse, try to deal with marriage issues while one of them is depressed but not yet diagnosed or treated.

[NewLeaf512]

Its very difficult when you supersede your H or P in every possible way. You have a bunch of children which while a blessing make this much harder to negotiate.

 

 

As I am a woman and a strategist, (and I don't know where you live so law here is important) BEFORE YOU DO ONE MORE THING (like ask him to leave for a trial separation etc)

 

 

You MUST force him to get a job. MUST. no matter how small. I am a very successful woman as well, and in the black and white of it, the emotional part of this is going to be hard enough without you having to pay alimony, get a nanny, and probably go back to the higher paying role.

 

 

Please get him working and consult a family practice solicitor/ lawyer before you even mention the D word again to him.

[GunslingerRoland]

It doesn't sound like you are at a low point in an otherwise good marriage. It sounds like you settled for him, got by okay because you didn't see each other much, then were too busy with babies too notice, and now that you actually have to spend time together you don't like each other at all.

 

I guess I don't blame your husband for not wanting to go as it doesn't sound like he has much going for himself and he has a pretty sweet role in the family right now.

 

You need to rip off this Band-Aid. You never should have been in this marriage IMO but you have 4 kids to show for it... now move on and try to enjoy your life.

[jwhale]

Hi Morro--

Thank you for taking the time to read and reply...I guess I called it long term because I have been in a relationship with him for 1/2 of my life.

 

His lack of support during my breast cancer scare was eye opening and I think this was the point at which I really started to critique my marriage and think about if he truly was/is the person I'd want by my side as I grow old.

 

I am glad that my depression is under control too. Thank you.

[jwhale]

NewLeaf, Your advice is invaluable and mirrors what a few other women have suggested. I have not mentioned separation or divorce to my husband since I posted a few weeks back. I have purposely hired a nancy for this school year so that my husband can focus his energy on getting a job (and will be unable to use taking care of the kids, home, etc. as an excuse for not working).

 

And, if the nanny works out, I hope to keep her on to help me as I single parent in the future.

[jwhale]

Thank you Gunslinger....

 

I feel like a fool sometimes that I didn't see all of this clearly, but I was so in the throes of my decade long training, having 4 kids in a row, losing my father tragically, flipping between working days and nights, health issues, etc, that I really never took the time to evaluate my marriage. All that I knew was that it is/was loads better than my parents' was....which really isn't saying much.

 

I am so thankful for my 4 children though, and I keep coming back to the fact that we never would have had them if we had not married. I cannot imagine life without them.